70s Fantasy Draft - Brwned v Rood

[Rood]

Was quite surprised myself but then it's already started to swing in the other direction so I'm wary of speaking too soon! The game's have all been much closer than the 60s draft so you can't really expect to win any of them, IMO. Most are too close to call. There's a fair chance a few people came on here after having a few too many drinks and just voted without even thinking and that could be what wins the game.

I don't think you can say that about Guardiola, surely everyone knows he's one of the great deep-lying playmakers to have played the game...but then so is Pirlo. Guardiola was in the top 25 for the '94 Ballon D'or, Pirlo was in the top 10 two years in a row and was nominated twice in a row before that. Nothing wrong with believing Pirlo was better.

Schneider only made his German debut in '99 and had his peak post-00s so I would think most saw enough of him to judge for themselves, I just think the fact he's a bit of a boring attacking player counts against him in the same way I think it did for Camoranesi. Not sure though. I'm sure it counts against Dino Baggio though, these kinds of players aren't/weren't given a lot of recognition at the time they were playing so there's not much to go off if you've not seen him. You should've just posted a video of his goal against Spain in '94 and said he did that every other week!

At least we've generated a bit of interest, more votes than any other in this tournament and more than any of the previous two other than a couple of games, finals aside.

Ye I wasnt really suprised that you were winning as I knew it could go either way, was just suprised by the margin but that seems to be closing now.

I'm honestly not sure what the average Caftard knows about Guardiola as a player, obviously he is well known as a manager. Pirlo is a great player no doubt and there is nothing wrong with thinking he is the better, both were outstanding playmakers in their prime but personally I think Guardiola offered a bit more defensively so was a more complete player.

You are probably right about Schneider and definitely Baggio, he was a favorite of mine from the days of Channel4 Football Italia - a strong, pacy midfielder who liked to put himself about. Was a mainstay in the Italian national team for several years at the expense of supposely bigger names. Did not score often but reserved his goals for the biggest occasions - amazingly he won 3 UEFA Cup Finals (in the days it was worth winning) and scored 5 goals in them

Here is that World Cup goal from a classic match!

Anyway nice to see some interest being generated here!

 

[Brwned]

This is what Owen vs. Ayala looks like.
Ayala was great, but slow, left him completely stranded there

Looks like a bit of tactical voting here because you'd rather play against Rood than me...

This was Ayala alongside Chamot and Vivas, I daresay he wouldn't be so exposed partnering Ferdinand. With the pace in that backline my team wouldn't be afraid to push up, it's far from uncommon to have a relatively slow centre back in a backline that pushes up high...we've done so with Vidic to great effect over the years.

 

[BaldwinLegend]

Not sure how Schneider was 'boring'? Great player.

 

[antohan]

Looks like a bit of tactical voting here because you'd rather play against Rood than me...

Not really, I rate Rood's team much more than yours, and now I see how much the gap has closed I'm starting to wonder whether I shouldn't have been more tactical about it.

It is true that Rood would have a lot more players I would take (which in itself indicates I do rate him higher) but I would love to have Davids on board so either winner will do in that sense.

It's very simple, I can't hold back and watch some of my favourite players being so underrated.

This was Ayala alongside Chamot and Vivas, I daresay he wouldn't be so exposed partnering Ferdinand. With the pace in that backline my team wouldn't be afraid to push up, it's far from uncommon to have a relatively slow centre back in a backline that pushes up high...we've done so with Vidic to great effect over the years.

I'm not saying it is uncommon. I'm saying with Guardiola (and Nedved) placing the passes for Owen and Rivaldo it would be suicidal.

How high did we push against Barca? Not that it made any difference. But if you actually look back at the first final against them, we were on a roll, dominating, pushed up... got screwed.

 

[Rood]

Not sure how Schneider was 'boring'? Great player.

Actually that is a good point, I wasnt agreeing that he was boring, I was just agreeing that most should know of him.

He was a great attacking player - as mentioned in the OP, they called him The White Brazilian in Germany due to his technique and dribbling skills. He was nominated for the Ballon D'or in '02 and even got a few votes.

Used to get a shitload of assists and his service to Rivaldo and Owen would create a lot of chances for my team

 

[antohan]

Looks like we've ran out of voters here. Good turnout though.

 

[Rood]

Into the last quarter of the game, a tight match balanced at 22-18 to Brwned. As I'm chasing the game with nothing to lose, Im going to sacrifice a midfielder for another striker and go 4-3-3

Milito will add some muscle and an aerial threat to the forward line - so we will throw caution to the wind and going to start sending more crosses into the box from Roberto Carlos and Schneider - plus more long range efforts raining in from Rivaldo and Nedved, hopefully Owen can pounce on any rebound ...

 

[Brwned]

Shall I add the image to the OP or just add a line pointing to it on the next page?

 

[Rood]

whatever you reckon - not sure how much difference it makes anyway - but its my last throw of the dice!

 

[Brwned]

Not sure but I think if you'd started off with that you might've won the game because Milito's a more fashionable name than D. Baggio, although it's obviously the worse team.

 

[Brwned]

If I were to win, the obvious move is to go for Rivaldo to add a bit of flair to the setup that's got me this far.

Spoiler

Or the more attacking version:

Spoiler

Other possible options...

Pass-masters

Spoiler

Czech magic

Spoiler

Impenetrable defence (+ Rustu)

Spoiler

 

[Cutch]

Very good matchup here. I've gone for Rood cos i think he has a bit more balance and flair. The 2 defences are outstanding, with very little to choose. Rood has the better fullbacks, Brwned with the better centrehalfs (although Carragher and Gallas on their day were quality).

Brwneds team to me just seems to be missing a proper dribbler/pacy outlet. His midfield can pass a ball but i think his attacking could be a tad static and lacking in width. Will Shearer and Larsson get the crosses into the box that they thrive on? Not saying either are one dimensional players, just that they need service. I dont see any such problem with Roods; Schneider and Nedved were both good ball carriers (and could provide a bit of width) and Rivaldo had the ability to turn a game in a flash. Owen in his prime in his early 20s was almost unplayable, scoring goals out of nothing.

So, pretty close but Rood just for having a bit more X factor.

Preferred Roods side with Baggio in rather than Milito btw but had voted before i seen that change.

 

[Brwned]

I do lack a bit of pace which is somewhat of a waste of Pirlo and Valeron but I've never had any chance to add to that which is disappointing, could add Owen here but picking him over Rivaldo would be a bit much.

 

[Cutch]

Owen would definately thrive on Valerons nice throughballs and Pirlo's balls over the top. Would give you electric pace, and complement Shearer fairly well also but as you say to choose him over a World Player of The Year is a big call. I actually think Roods strikers would perform better in your team and yours would perform better in his.

Not sure if i'm the only one that has difficulty rating Henrik Larsson. I'm assuming his prime was his Celtic days when he scored shitloads against weaker opposition but its hard to rate him against the very best during this time. No doubt he proved his class in spells with Barcelona and United but how good was he on his day. Good, very good or world class, I'm not sure. Presumably he's the one most at risk of the chop or maybe its an upgrade on Valeron (Rivaldo).

 

[Polaroid]

You have to take Rivaldo, one player who is the equal of Zidane
I would go for Larsson over Valeron - more width, more pace, more work-rate.
With Pirlo and Rivaldo, you are not lacking in creativity and flair. Davids can play a bit too. That front 3 will score goals and your defense can seal the win.

--------Shearer
--Rivaldo----Larsson
Davids--Pirlo--Tacchinardi

with Rivaldo and Larsson exploiting the channels/going wide when needed.

 

[Snow]

Agree with Polaroid on this one. Valeron has been a bit of a stumbling block for you Brwned because of the lack of certain aspects in your team. Rivaldo is too good to turn down.

There's still two hours left but the votes are maxed out as of now.
If I were Rood I'd go for Davids. Whoever wins this has to play against a strong midfield so it has to be a priority for them to pick a player on that end of their midfield that needs to get a little better.

 

[Cutch]

Has Shearer ever played as a lone striker or in a system other than 4-4-2?

 

[Snow]

I'm sure he has. I think Larsson complements him well. That's why I think Owen shouldn't be an option. His strengths in playing with a striker like Shearer are the same as Larsson has. He had decent pace and was smart off the ball.

 

[Cutch]

I'm sure he has. I think Larsson complements him well. That's why I think Owen shouldn't be an option. His strengths in playing with a striker like Shearer are the same as Larsson has. He had decent pace and was smart off the ball.

From what i remember he always flourished in partnerships. He had great ones with Sutton at Blackburn, Ferdinand at Newcastle and Sheringham with England. I cant remember him ever playing on his own or a formation other than 4-4-2 with genuine width.

 

[Snow]

What about after Sutton and Les went and before Owen and the likes of Ameobi?

I looked it up. 98-99 he played alone. In 03-04 he played somewhat alone. But that's about it. So basically right. He's mostly been partnered throughout his career.

 

[Cutch]

What about after Sutton and Les went and before Owen and the likes of Ameobi?

I looked it up. 98-99 he played alone. In 03-04 he played somewhat alone. But that's about it. So basically right. He's mostly been partnered throughout his career.

According to wiki, In 98/99 he played with a load of different partners, Duncan Ferguson, Ketsbaia, Dalglish, Saha and Guivarch. In 03-04 he played with Ameobi and Bellamy.

 

[antohan]

From what i remember he always flourished in partnerships. He had great ones with Sutton at Blackburn, Ferdinand at Newcastle and Sheringham with England. I cant remember him ever playing on his own or a formation other than 4-4-2 with genuine width.

As you pointed out, you probably would swap the strike partnerships. I've spent the whole tournament wondering how good Shearer would be in Brwned's setup as I've never seen him play in a team without any width.

That's what I meant earlier about his outlets for a counter being limited. There is something wrong when you feel Larsson is more dangerous than Shearer.

 

[Snow]

According to wiki it also said they played 4-5-1 with a man behind him. Ferguson only played 6 or 7 games that season. Guivarch less, and not forward. Ketsbaia wasn't a striker so he'd have been behind him.

Yeah, he mostly played with a partner in 03-04, hence the somewhat, but they were both injured quite a bit so he had to be played alone a bit. Bobby Robson didn't like to stray much from 4-4-2.

 

[antohan]

According to wiki it also said they played 4-5-1 with a man behind him. Ferguson only played 6 or 7 games that season. Guivarch less, and not forward. Ketsbaia wasn't a striker so he'd have been behind him.

Yeah, he mostly played with a partner in 03-04, hence the somewhat, but they were both injured quite a bit so he had to be played alone a bit. Bobby Robson didn't like to stray much from 4-4-2.

Shearer is a classic 4-4-2 centreforward, that's why the moment he dropped that trident thingie Brwned instantly looked better upfront despite dropping a forward.

But he is very much playing target man to knock it down for Larsson here, it's all very central route 1 football.

 

[Gio]

Owen would definately thrive on Valerons nice throughballs and Pirlo's balls over the top. Would give you electric pace, and complement Shearer fairly well also but as you say to choose him over a World Player of The Year is a big call. I actually think Roods strikers would perform better in your team and yours would perform better in his.

Not sure if i'm the only one that has difficulty rating Henrik Larsson. I'm assuming his prime was his Celtic days when he scored shitloads against weaker opposition but its hard to rate him against the very best during this time. No doubt he proved his class in spells with Barcelona and United but how good was he on his day. Good, very good or world class, I'm not sure. Presumably he's the one most at risk of the chop or maybe its an upgrade on Valeron (Rivaldo).

I'd rate him quite highly: he had little trouble translating his SPL form to the European or international stage. Remember the 2003 UEFA cup final where him and Deco were a class or two above their teammates. Sutton rated him as a better partner than Shearer.

I'm sure he has. I think Larsson complements him well. That's why I think Owen shouldn't be an option. His strengths in playing with a striker like Shearer are the same as Larsson has. He had decent pace and was smart off the ball.

Aye, Owen and Shearer worked well in '98, but they didn't seem to have much rapport after that and looked clunky together under Keegan.

 

[antohan]

Sutton rated him as a better partner than Shearer.

Larsson is a more natural partner for him than Shearer, not surprising.

 

[antohan]

If I were to win, the obvious move is to go for Rivaldo to add a bit of flair to the setup that's got me this far.

Spoiler

Or the more attacking version:

Spoiler

Other possible options...

Pass-masters

Spoiler

Czech magic

Spoiler

Impenetrable defence (+ Rustu)

Spoiler

Wouldn't mind you going for the passmaster version, Guardiola is the only one who I may possibly be interested in ahead of Davids.

What I didn't get was why you had Davids (a leftie) on the right here, Carlos' threat?

 

[Rood]

wow - nearly 50 votes, and if just 1 person had voted differently then it would have made all the difference !

 

[antohan]

wow - nearly 50 votes, and if just 1 person had voted differently then it would have made all the difference !

You still have 40 minutes to go, or about 2 minutes plus ET.

It's not over until the fat lady sings mate. Keep at it.

 

[Snow]

Wouldn't mind you going for the passmaster version, Guardiola is the only one who I may possibly be interested in ahead of Davids.

What I didn't get was why you had Davids (a leftie) on the right here, Carlos' threat?

Carlos and Nedved I assume.

 

[Rood]

Agree with Polaroid on this one. Valeron has been a bit of a stumbling block for you Brwned because of the lack of certain aspects in your team. Rivaldo is too good to turn down.

There's still two hours left but the votes are maxed out as of now.
If I were Rood I'd go for Davids. Whoever wins this has to play against a strong midfield so it has to be a priority for them to pick a player on that end of their midfield that needs to get a little better.

Well it looks like my late comeback is not going be enough so it is academic but the only ones I was looking at were Davids and maybe Rio - but most likely it would have been Davids taking Baggio's place.

Brwned has to take Rivaldo - no question. Although Tacchinardi is also a weak link IMO.

 

[antohan]

Good game.

Rood going out with his head held high.

 

[Rood]

Good game.

Rood going out with his head held high.

Yep - biggest attendance so far!

In the morning I was pretty pissed off about the margin but I can handle going out based on just a couple of votes swing