737 Max - Boeing grounds the fleet after second crash | Production temporarily suspended

sglowrider

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https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/28/business/boeing-737-max-faa-inspections.html

Anyone see this mentioned anywhere? Apparently those bolts weren't the only ones recently found to be loose. (This is from December 28th!).
The max will be the nail in the coffin for Boeing. It's getting very competitive in it's capacity space.

It reminds me of the Lockheed TriStar, L10-11. Great aircraft, ahead of it's time.
But a series of unlucky mishaps and it killed that platform off. Plus a serious corruption scandal that brought down a Japanese govt

Killed off any further attempts into the commercial aircraft for Lockheed.
 
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Jippy

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https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/28/business/boeing-737-max-faa-inspections.html

Anyone see this mentioned anywhere? Apparently those bolts weren't the only ones recently found to be loose. (This is from December 28th!).
Was reading about that earlier. Sounds very worrying, but the FT reckons not as damaging as the crashs when it was stalling due to this latest issue cause my manufacturing rather than design flaws. Will surely still make a lot of people reticent to fly on them though.

https://www.ft.com/content/8d2c6102-6f5e-470b-a851-1a26b2985b8a
 

sglowrider

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Was reading about that earlier. Sounds very worrying, but the FT reckons not as damaging as the crashs when it was stalling due to this latest issue cause my manufacturing rather than design flaws. Will surely still make a lot of people reticent to fly on them though.

https://www.ft.com/content/8d2c6102-6f5e-470b-a851-1a26b2985b8a
You dont have a choice of planes that you can fly with unless you check the airline's fleet first? But most short-haul flights will be dominated by the 737s; and if you are lucky with newer ones like the Max.

After having flown on the 737-200s like only a decade ago, I will take my chances on the Max!!
 

Moby

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I've literally never ever checked the model of the plane I'll be flying on before booking a ticket. As long as the seats are comfortable and the equipment inside is working correctly I couldn't care less.
 

Murder on Zidane's Floor

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I've literally never ever checked the model of the plane I'll be flying on before booking a ticket. As long as the seats are comfortable and the equipment inside is working correctly I couldn't care less.
Boing or Scarebus
 

Jippy

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You dont have a choice of planes that you can fly with unless you check the airline's fleet first? But most short-haul flights will be dominated by the 737s; and if you are lucky with newer ones like the Max.

After having flown on the 737-200s like only a decade ago, I will take my chances on the Max!!
@Raoul said earlier in the thread that he avoided any airline using the Max on a recent flight and he won't be the only one. Agree it depends if you have price flexibility and the patience to check, but the number of Max's as opposed to regular 737s seems very low still.
 

Murder on Zidane's Floor

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Murder on Zidane's Floor

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@Raoul said earlier in the thread that he avoided any airline using the Max on a recent flight and he won't be the only one. Agree it depends if you have price flexibility and the patience to check, but the number of Max's as opposed to regular 737s seems very low still.
Guy in the aviation sector I know did the same thing.
 

Abizzz

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I don't really need to check to know that Ryan Air flies 737 while easy jet flies A320s, that's just general aviation interest to me. But yeah, those 737's are NG for the most part and the amount of routes where I could viably choose between the 2 are very limited too. And I wouldn't ever cross the Atlantic in a single isle plane anyway (that's when other airlines come into play for me).

Besides fixing this new issue the problem becomes do we trust them that the process that led to loose bolts didn't also lead to other problems that just haven't become relevant yet. These planes are supposed to fly another 2 decades or so.
 

Jippy

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Don't forget guys, "it's never been safer to fly"
I just see flying as a means to an end, as many others do, and it would've been way less interesting moving to Asia if I wouldn't fly.

If you hate it that much I'd genuinely consider hypnotherapy -it worked for me when quitting smoking- and will mean you have way better holidays.
 

VorZakone

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The max will be the nail in the coffin for Boeing. It's getting very competitive in it's capacity space.

It reminds me of the Lockheed TriStar, L10-11. Great aircraft, ahead of it's time.
But a series of unlucky mishaps and it killed that platform off. Plus a serious corruption scandal that brought down a Japanese govt

Killed off any further attempts into the commercial aircraft for Lockheed.
Boeing will be fine in the long term. Who other than Airbus can challenge them? China's COMAC is still far away.

And Airbus has a backlog of its own so there is still space for new orders for Boeing.
 

11101

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Instead, the MAX is getting record number of orders from worldwide operators. I guess in a decade or so, most non Airbus narrow bodies will be the MAX
The vast majority of orders are from US airlines who have to buy Boeing, and ultra low cost or questionable airlines who are after the massive discounts Boeing have to give to sell these things. Theyve hardly sold any to reputable legacy airlines outside the US and virtually none have been delivered. Airbus has cleared up with the A320Neo and A350.

An aircraft with obvious flaws + airlines with dodgy training records is not a good mix.
 

Denis79

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Tesla, Boeing. I know I am overexaggerating but I don't trust US companies to value customer safety over profits.
 

tenpoless

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Boeing is a shitty name for an aerospace company. Should be something cooler like SkyConqueror or AviationKing.
 

pocco

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Was there this much of a furore over the Dreamliner?

I remember when it was first put into service and we had a flight booked on one of the earliest flights it was taking. In the weeks leading up to our flight, it was all over the news about the issues they were having, and I was actually a bit nervous going on to that flight. That only got worse when, mid-flight, all of the electrics went off and we were in darkness. Luckily it was only the electrical side of things that powered the cabin (lights, screens etc) and seemingly not the functioning of the plane. Was pretty unnerving though initially.
 

Abizzz

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Was there this much of a furore over the Dreamliner?

I remember when it was first put into service and we had a flight booked on one of the earliest flights it was taking. In the weeks leading up to our flight, it was all over the news about the issues they were having, and I was actually a bit nervous going on to that flight. That only got worse when, mid-flight, all of the electrics went off and we were in darkness. Luckily it was only the electrical side of things that powered the cabin (lights, screens etc) and seemingly not the functioning of the plane. Was pretty unnerving though initially.
Not really, but no 787 has crashed yet, it's made of new materials and the first to use a battery for everything onboard. Issues were a lot more expected and less fatal than on the 737 Max. This is just supposed to the newest iteration of a plane that has flown safely for many decades...
 

Denis79

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You trust any company for this?
I trust that some countries supervise them better than others. As I said probably being dramatic.

Edit: What I wanted to say is that in some countries they are forced to think more about the potential negative effects of their products. I guess most companies would be just as bad if given the chance.
 
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11101

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Was there this much of a furore over the Dreamliner?

I remember when it was first put into service and we had a flight booked on one of the earliest flights it was taking. In the weeks leading up to our flight, it was all over the news about the issues they were having, and I was actually a bit nervous going on to that flight. That only got worse when, mid-flight, all of the electrics went off and we were in darkness. Luckily it was only the electrical side of things that powered the cabin (lights, screens etc) and seemingly not the functioning of the plane. Was pretty unnerving though initially.
It wasn't great when one of them caught fire in front of an airport full of people in Boston, and then another one did it again at Heathrow a few months later. Lots of talk at the time that had it been any other aircraft at least one of them would have been scrapped rather than repaired. Boeing's last two aircraft have been disasters on launch.
 

BootsyCollins

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I trust that some countries supervise them better than others. As I said probably being dramatic.

Edit: What I wanted to say is that in some countries they are forced to think more about the potential negative effects of their products. I guess most companies would be just as bad if given the chance.
I was half joking and agree fully with the bolded.
 

Balljy

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I trust that some countries supervise them better than others. As I said probably being dramatic.

Edit: What I wanted to say is that in some countries they are forced to think more about the potential negative effects of their products. I guess most companies would be just as bad if given the chance.
There's definitely a cultural thing for working in the US. When the company I work for got bought out by a large US company, they were trying to implement things that were illegal under UK (EU really) law and it was pretty obvious that their way of working was purely for profit and the company. It's not great here, but there's definitely more thought about people and making sure that what's produced is of a good standard rather than just about profit.

The main difference was how staff were treated and we kicked back on most of that, but it also impacted what was being produced (this is a software company).
 

Ajr

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There's definitely a cultural thing for working in the US. When the company I work for got bought out by a large US company, they were trying to implement things that were illegal under UK (EU really) law and it was pretty obvious that their way of working was purely for profit and the company. It's not great here, but there's definitely more thought about people and making sure that what's produced is of a good standard rather than just about profit.

The main difference was how staff were treated and we kicked back on most of that, but it also impacted what was being produced (this is a software company).
My friend had the same, cutting corners, starting treating staff with no respect, trying to cut annual leave etc
 

Balljy

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My friend had the same, cutting corners, starting treating staff with no respect, trying to cut annual leave etc
The worst one I had soon after the take-over was when they wanted me to call somebody whilst they were at the hospital for a family bereavement and get them to book it off as annual leave so it was recorded :houllier:

I get compassionate leave isn't actually law, but the timing was unbelievable. We've kicked back on all that now so compassionate leave / annual leave has stayed the same luckily.