A century ago... (a reminder of our success)

Brwned

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We won our second league title in the club's history. We didn't win another one until 41 years later. We were relegated in 1922 and 1931. We could've gone bankrupt in between this in 1927 after John Davies' death. In 1934 we finished in 20th place in the Second Division, one point off relegation into the Third Division.

After the great Busby era, in which we won 5 league titles, one FA Cup and a European Cup in 15 years, we went without a single title of any kind for 9 years, we went without a league title for nearly 25 years and a European Cup for 31 years after that. What is regarded as one of the greatest eras in our history, one of the highlights of their lifetime from fans who lived it, is when we won 5 titles, an FA Cup and a European Cup. And yet, we've bettered that in less than a decade, and we've spent half that time complaining.

Complaining about irrelevant tactics that they don't even understand, complaining about players who have flopped who then go on to be hugely influential, complaining about signings before they've even played their first game for us, complaining about lineups, complaining about every little thing. Just thought it'd be worth remembering for those complaining about us signing Ashley Young because it won't help us beat one of the best sides of all-time, or for those complaining about John O'Shea being shit, despite him being in the top 30 of our appearance holders of all-time during what is most likely our most successful decade in this illustrious club's history, for those even downplaying the significance of a title compared to others'. Think about how many titles you've taken for granted - "We weren't actually that good in 08/09, played some really boring football and ruined the Tevez-Rooney-Ronaldo trio by buying a flop" or "I can't believe we got rid of Tevez and Ronaldo and replaced them with Michael fecking Owen and some annoyingly predictable Ecuadorian with no left foot, who really doesn't deserve to be named because he's so bland and uninspiring, and isn't as good as Nani. If only we replaced them with genuine superstars we could have went all the way...we won the fecking league title and got to the CL final, you absolute bellends.

People take issue when they're called spolit but we are. I know nothing other than almost constant success, consistent excellence and wonderful football. I simply can't fathom going 25 years without a league title, especially given I've grown up listening to the likes of 'the Carling Cup's worthless, who cares' and 'we're not as great as the 98-99 team, the quality of the league's just on a decline etc etc'. We've won 19 league titles, we're the most successful club in England, and nearly two thirds of these have come in under two decades. The past two decades. It needs pointing out every once in a while just how lucky we are.
 

mufcwarm92

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We are definitely spoilt by success, hugely so. It makes me cringe when I see clueless, spoilt, armchair fans on the Caf whining and predicting imminent meltdown. Some people on here need to grow the feck up and get some perspective, our current spell of success is unprecedented and we should savour every minute of it - it won't last for ever.

Great thread though, addresses a lot of the little things about our fanbase that really get on my tits.
 

Scrumpet

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We should also add that even though we've pretty much known nothing but success for two decades, it won't last forever. Nothing does. Best to just enjoy it while we're a the top.

edit: or what he said.
 

Sir Matt

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Sack Fergie, sell Giggs. The best example of how ridiculous United fans are.

Harrumph!
 

holyland red

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Most of us have known nothing but success for United, and yes we are spoilt by our success over the last 2 decades.

Still, nothing wrong with admitting that our rivals at the top fecked up massively this season which made winning the league easier than it could have been. As for the CC being worthless, well I suppose it's the club itself that stop caring about it first (was it that night at St. James' Park in the early 90's) as a competition worth winning. I guess it won't be only the unspoilt fans exploding on the caf if we field anything resembling our strongest XI in the CC next season.
 

FortBoyard

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Yes we are successful and that should be cherished.

But even still nothing is impervious to criticism, and while I'm the most optimistic of fans I actually don't agree with the sentiment that because of the great success of this club we shouldn't discuss how to prolong such success.
 

Randall Flagg

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Meh. I'm happy to support United through thick and thin.
The vast majority of this forum have never experienced thin.

Myself included. I was 10 when we won the FA Cup in 1990 and its been non stop success since then.

I wonder when I see people slag off mid table sides and regard them as pointless and dull or play what they deem to be poor football what they would do if we turned into one of those teams.
 

Skywarden

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Yes we are successful and that should be cherished.

But even still nothing is impervious to criticism, and while I'm the most optimistic of fans I actually don't agree with the sentiment that because of the great success of this club we shouldn't discuss how to prolong such success.
Who said we should not discuss how to prolong our success?
 

GaryLifo

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The vast majority of this forum have never experienced thin.

Myself included. I was 10 when we won the FA Cup in 1990 and its been non stop success since then.

I wonder when I see people slag off mid table sides and regard them as pointless and dull or play what they deem to be poor football what they would do if we turned into one of those teams.
The first FA cup I saw us win was the 1985 one (saw the Brighton 2-2 but for some reason didn't see the replay :o). I was only ten in 1985 and it felt like United had just won the world cup to me. I felt the same in 1990 and even more so for the CWC in 1991. As you say, since then it's been almost constant success with the only two constants being Giggs and Fergie.

I'm long past questioning the manager even when he puts out (what I see as )the most bizarre line-up (see Arsenal FA cup this year :houllier:). He's proved me wrong so many times about line-ups, transfers, systems etc etc that I'd back him to bring us back to glory even if he took us to two successive relegations.

I reckon I'll have to steer clear of this place completely if we ever truly end up where Liverpool are now again.
 

Randall Flagg

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I'm long past questioning the manager even when he puts out (what I see as )the most bizarre line-up (see Arsenal FA cup this year :houllier:). He's proved me wrong so many times about line-ups, transfers, systems etc etc that I'd back him to bring us back to glory even if he took us to two successive relegations.

I reckon I'll have to steer clear of this place completely if we ever truly end up where Liverpool are now again.
I used to be the same in questioning Fergie with team selections etc... But like yourself I have simply given up about 15 years ago. I was sick of being proved wrong all the time.

And I do believe we would lose part of our fan base if we did a Liverpool/reverted to our 70's and 80's form.

And it is not an impossible scenario. It could quite easily happen. Nobody knows what is around the corner

:nervous:
 

Pogue Mahone

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I'd say it's a certainty we'll go through a lean spell at some point. Our recent spell of prolonged dominance is almost unparalleled. With each succesful season that goes by, the odds of repeating it get more and more stacked against us. Personally, I think the wheels will fall off when SAF calls it a day, no matter who replaces him.
 

Feeky Magee

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Stop analysing and explain your hat comment Mahone. I didn't google it for nothing.
 

McLovin

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In some posh play perhaps.

Good post Brwned.
 

Brwned

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Good post, but I haven't saw a single poster who's claimed we have had a poor season.
No, we've just been lucky that all the other top teams were a bit crap and we were just a bit less crap, we would've been destroyed by any decent side of the last two decades, and if we go through to next season with this embarrassingly incompetent midfield next year...well we can't even think about that.

There are things in this club that are worth criticising, the most obvious and important one being our ownership status, and I've nothing wrong with people criticising/worrying about the midfield if we don't bring in another player this summer, or complaining about Kleberson, Miller and Djemba-Djemba all being at the club at the same time who are meant to be potential first team options for us, because it is constructive criticism and it is based on genuine and realistic worry that we might start to drop off.

Dropping out of the Champions League spots is the end of the world for us, it hasn't happened since I've been born for christ's sake (we've not even finished in 4th!), but I think in amongst all the worry, the doubt, the complaining and the constant minor annoyances we lose sight of what we're achieving here year in, year out. And when it gets to the point where people want to talk about just how good a title win was - how the football played during the title wasn't that good, or how the quality of the opposition wasn't that good - then it seems like people are losing some perspective.
 

e.cantona

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Big-Red

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I'm just happy to watch and support Man United any chance I get, makes my year more bearable.
 

Mr. MUJAC

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I used to be the same in questioning Fergie with team selections etc... But like yourself I have simply given up about 15 years ago. I was sick of being proved wrong all the time.

And I do believe we would lose part of our fan base if we did a Liverpool/reverted to our 70's and 80's form.

And it is not an impossible scenario. It could quite easily happen. Nobody knows what is around the corner

:nervous:
We will only lose the ones that don't matter!
 

Striker10

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That's what success does to you. It makes you greedy. When you win it you want it more and more and that's the nature of the beast ie success. You see that with Sir Alex. We talk about the fans DEMANDING etc but this is what Sir Alex demands of himself. So it shows the evolution of how we've come to be where we are, up to a point but to understand the club, you have to understand the men that have taken us this far. We're just fortunate to have the best. There's no question. If Sir Alex had chelseas/citys/barcas/madrids money? He was have a few more champions leagues and he'd keep demanding titles of himself. That's how lucky we are and I don't think you can blame any supporter for buying into that idea. Selling an idea that's going to make you happy, sounds easy to me. The idea is to try to win everything and in 100 years who knows where we'll be?
 

bergen

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So we've won 17 league titles in 99 years?

That's an awful ratio and record for a club like us.
That's still almost 1 out of every 5. Considering there are around 100 professional clubs in the four top leagues, you have to say thats pretty good.
 

Sky1981

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It's our high expectations and Fergie's not taking second best and dare i say take those wins for granted that keeps us winning and hungry

Imagine if SAF was contempt after breaking the duck with his PL wins?

It's good while it last, I believe some of us acted like that because we're up to a very high standard, should (knock on wood) we become like Liverpool, probably some of us will come to term and demand less, some of us well.. probably support other teams, and the unlucky some will become RAWKites
 

Waltraute

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Imagine a little boy seeing his beloved United relegated..I was that little boy...:(

I remember crying after loosing the FA Cup final against Southampton in '76...:(

I waited over 20 years to see us lift the league title...:)
You're not alone Colin, so did I. In fact my first memories of United were of the relegation season.

Absolutely wonderful OP, Brwned. I'm sure the younger Reds get tired of hearing us hoary oldtimers banging on about appreciating what you've got -- really, truly enjoying it! -- and not taking our success for granted; not disrespecting the FA Cup (or the League Cup); never dismissing the achievement of reaching a European Cup final and so on and on and on.

It still needs to be brought up from time to time though, and it's really heartwarming to see a younger Red like Brwned doing it. Like I've mentioned before, I'm nothing but grateful I got to experience being a United supporter in the late 70s and 80s. Not just because the game hadn't sold its soul to Satan back then, but because of the true, unalloyed joy success brings when you've experienced hardship.

It's impossible to feel the same when you've known nothing but success, and we shouldn't blame the younger Reds for being spoilt, really. It's just a version of the law of diminishing marginal utility and an unfortunate aspect of the human psyche. It's still important to try and attempt to change perspective, though (like e.g. reminding oneself how lucky one is to have fresh running water from the tap).

ETA --
Pogue said:
With each succesful season that goes by, the odds of repeating it get more and more stacked against us.
I hate being a prat, but I just have to say -- Not really.

The way I interpret your post, that's a version of the 'law of averages'* fallacy. I'm not going to bore you with a lot of probability theory, those who're interested can Google 'law of averages', 'Gambler's fallacy' and 'law of large numbers'. The erroneous belief in something like "the law of averages", and it's applicability to the league, brightens many a Scouse summer, though. :)

*There is no such thing, and the closest theorem in probability theory -- the law of large numbers -- is certainly not applicable to football.
 

Brwned

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That's what success does to you. It makes you greedy. When you win it you want it more and more and that's the nature of the beast ie success. You see that with Sir Alex. We talk about the fans DEMANDING etc but this is what Sir Alex demands of himself. So it shows the evolution of how we've come to be where we are, up to a point but to understand the club, you have to understand the men that have taken us this far. We're just fortunate to have the best. There's no question. If Sir Alex had chelseas/citys/barcas/madrids money? He was have a few more champions leagues and he'd keep demanding titles of himself. That's how lucky we are and I don't think you can blame any supporter for buying into that idea. Selling an idea that's going to make you happy, sounds easy to me. The idea is to try to win everything and in 100 years who knows where we'll be?
I do understand that people are following Sir Alex's lead, as we all know he's a self-confessed perfectionist...but that actually has its practical uses, he uses it to motivate his players, to motivate us fans, to act as the driving force to our continuing success. He does it because he knows what to expect, he knows what standards need to be met because he's the one that's set them, because his influence is found throughout the infrastructure of the club just as Sir Matt's is.

Is there really much practical use of fans being ultra-demanding (aside from allowing us to vent and giving us something to take our anger out on to our hearts' content, of course)?
 
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Very good OP.

That's why I don't like to see posters demeaning us winning the Carling Cup or teams competing in the Europa League; we may find ourselves there some day. Enjoy it while it lasts and just realise that we are in a very privileged time in our history.
 

Crustanoid

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Nice idea, but slightly condescending OP that reads like a book excerpt in some places - have you really any first hand experience of relative 'hard times' as a United supporter? I started really taking notice of football roundabout 85-86. Our league positions following that season were: 11,2,11,13,5....Liverpool were dominating everything and it hurt...badly. It's natural to now hope that United do the same - and if things don't work out, why shouldn't we as fans wish for improvement?