A Friendly Thread For Protesting Fans

[The Firestarter]

So you want us to be bought by a PE for 3bn quid (51%), and despite that 51% ownership they also agree to pay out no dividends to their investors in the hope that in 10 years they can flog us for massive profit to???????

You don't understand a word I am saying do you? I explained two times why people or corporations acquire long term assets. It is not to sell them after a while. Sure , some do it , maybe due to necessity. But that is not the desired outcome. What is desired is, you do not sell the asset if it is increasing in value. And eventually, you pass it on to your children. That is basically in every book on investment.

 

[Ali Dia]

I get what you’re saying but ultimately protests are about amplification, optics and impact. The hope is that these small protests (even while appealing to the wrong target audience) will eventually lead to a general shift in perception and mindset at macro policy and legislative levels.

We need comprehensive structural change to the values that underpin football club ownership and commercialisation.

i couldn’t have said it any better. Little acorns and all that. Doing anything that’s in defiance of these goons and their ilk is better than sitting at home and getting all divided online

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Don't think it will happen under any government, it's just not workable nowadays. Possibly could have been done when the PL was set up, but would have been difficult even then.

It would've had a chance of happening under a Corbyn type government but yes even then it would be a challenge. No chance under Tories who believe in a free market and all that. Shame.

 

[Tincanalley]

I'm sorry for questioning who the magical owner in waiting is. Reality is unless government change football ownership (never happen under Tories) we would bought by the Saudis who would use the club as a propaganda machine or maybe a slightly better version of the Glazers. How many rich billionaires are out there that wouldn't want to milk Manchester United?

I disagree. I think Boris is interested in working votes from the north. He knows a lot are football fans. Its a fantastic way for the Tories to get on the right side of those voters. He really stuck his neck out and emboldened the 14 'legacy' clubs. It was a big part of the reason the ESL folded. With that in hand, he might want to go further. They have promised a football review with the fans playing a part. This is the best chance ever to see regulaton that curtails the likes of the Glazers.

 

[Kaos]

50+1 will never happen under Tory government unfortunately.

Yeah this is my fear too. They would have loved the ESL if they got a piece of the pie too, only reason they're paying lip service to 'the fans' is because you don't have Boris, Hancock and their slimy mates getting on the gravy train.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

You don't understand a word I am saying do you? I explained two times why people or corporations acquire long term assets. It is not to sell them after a while. Sure , some do it , maybe due to necessity. But that is not the desired outcome. What is desired is, you do not sell the asset if it is increasing in value. And eventually, you pass it on to your children. That is basically in every book on investment.

feck me, show me how many times a firm has been acquired for 3 BILLION QUID for these means.

I look forward to a lesson. I can't find a single example of a 3bn + acquisition with guaranteed no dividends, and then we can add in that the environment is football, where so much is success based, which is "risky" at best. Yeah I think you're in dreamworld mate.

 

[alexthelion]

I totally agree we need to complain to the government, but we're not going to get traction unless there's enough pressure on the owners.
It can be part of any campaign, but you need to get numbers early while it's fresh in people's thoughts.

Also, how do I as someone in Ireland complain to another government? I'm not a UK citizen, but love this club just as much as the next person and want to contribute.
We could start a UK gov petition once we've got an active campaign to pull in numbers?

Complain to the PL/FA.

 

[alexthelion]

It would've had a chance of happening under a Corbyn type government but yes even then it would be a challenge. No chance under Tories who believe in a free market and all that. Shame.

Oh please, Jezza had to have help to tie his own shoelaces.

No government will pay for every single English league club to change to 50+1, which is what would be required. Wasn't that costed at something just under £200Bn?

 

[The Firestarter]

feck me, show me how many times a firm has been acquired for 3 BILLION QUID for these means.

I look forward to a lesson.

A club is not a firm in the traditional sense. A firm goal is to maximise profit. That is not the true purpose of a football club. The fact the Glazers are viewing the club solely as a vehicle to extract profits is the whole reason we are discussing this.

As for the 3bn : For the third time, institutions invest even bigger sums in the stock market , without expectation for dividends. Seriously, is it that hard to comprehend?

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

A club is not a firm in the traditional sense. A firm goal is to maximise profit. That is not the true purpose of a football club. The fact the Glazers are viewing the club solely as a vehicle to extract profits is the whole reason we are discussing this.

As for the 3bn : For the third time, institutions invest even bigger sums in the stock market , without expectation for dividends. Seriously, is it that hard to comprehend?

That’s because they expect to sell the stock later at a much higher price, to whoever will pay it.

You’re hoping someone comes in in a volatile environment like football and guarantees not to take dividends on a 3 billion investment in the hope that they can have a much more expensive product at the end, this isn’t like investing in Tesla mate. It’s fantasy stuff.

I wish it happens, but I feel football is way too risky for that, it will be a Saudi type or someone wanting to make profit on their investment.

 

[Ali Dia]

Guys can we keep new ownership talk out of this for now. There is no new ownership proposed currently. There is also no point in bringing up the Saudi boogeyman at every juncture. If fans get more control in the meantime then we can hopefully better stop that kind of thing from happening in the future or at least lay down a marker that we aren’t going to walked over and lied to whoever comes in. If we sit around now we send the wrong message and we will be even more powerless then. This is the time to get together and take some control back.

 

[Bertie Wooster]

I think like minded fans should have a place where we can build momentum and share protest and glazer out ideas without having to justify the need for or means of protest at every turn. Unfortunately too much of our energy is still spent in fighting and arguing with each other and that’s what really kills momentum and spirit before things can ever fully take off. Our fans fighting against each other (about Ole and everything else) is also a major turn off for casual fans who are still on the fence about what to do about our owners. At the end of the day we just want the club run by someone who communicates with fans and has the club and communities best interests at heart. It’s not and never will be the Glazers. Keep pushing and fighting guys and who knows where this will eventually end up!

Seems an inconsistent view to claim what's important is the fans voice - but then try to discourage any fan who has a contrary view from voicing it on these threads.

'The fans' are a group of individuals with individual views who happen to support the same team. That doesn't mean they'll think the same on topics like this.

Some will be against the idea of protests altogether, some (like me) recognise the validity but only if it's aimed at the right targets - Glazers, not the players or Ole. Some will be protesting for moral reasons - because they 100% want Glazers out and feel it's the right thing to do. Some will protest more for ego reasons - they love the sense of power it brings and their 15 minutes of fame, etc.

All fans should be able to have a say whether they agree with things that effect their club - and that certainly includes whether they agree with fan protests 'speaking for them' while targeting the training ground and the players and coaches.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Sorry Firestarter but no company or fund is handcuffing itself like that for 3bn quid in football, if other oil states came in and bought other Prem team United could find themselves out of the CL and a massively decreased value. It’s not a sound investment.
Once again you’re back to hoping for a Saudi or altruistic owner.

Better to fight for reform.

 

[alexthelion]

Guys can we keep new ownership talk out of this for now. There is no new ownership proposed currently. There is also no point in bringing up the Saudi boogeyman at every juncture. If fans get more control in the meantime then we can hopefully better stop that kind of thing from happening in the future or at least lay down a marker that we aren’t going to walked over and lied to. If we sit around now we will be even more powerless then. This is the time to get together and take some control back.

What sort of "fan control" are you talking about here? How do you propose that fans get this "control"?

 

[Ali Dia]

What sort of "fan control" are you talking about here? How do you propose that fans get this "control"?

By a concerted effort between us and the other 5 clubs to lobby government and the owners to make a change at the top level

 

[The Irish Connection]

Anyone who is saying "its pointless protesting" is either

1. not watching the news
2. obscenely pessimistic
3. has an agenda (hmm)

See. No rude words.

Just caught up on the news coverage. This super league thing isn’t dead, Perez is determined and the owners have put years of work into it. The FA and/or government needs to seriously punish or remove the ownership due to a serious threat on the sport, as the next time they try it, it will be more calculated and subtle .

51% plus wage and transfer caps need to be seriously considered.

 

[alexthelion]

By a concerted effort between us and the other 5 clubs to lobby government and the owners to make a change at the top level

So, what I've been saying. Protests/lobbying should be aimed at PL/FA/government to change the rules.

That has to be done before any change of ownership.

 

[The Irish Connection]

By a concerted effort between us and the other 5 clubs to lobby government and the owners to make a change at the top level

I emailed the uk government asking for action to be taken on the fan ownership model, after a poster put the email addresses up here yesterday, and I’m sure others have too.
Retweets and likes will help too.

 

[Bastian]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Worth signing up for this if anyone hasn’t already, only takes a minute to do.
EDIT: reclaimourgame.com is the site for it I think.

That's more like it.

 

[Ali Dia]

Seems an inconsistent view to claim what's important is the fans voice - but then try to discourage any fan who has a contrary view from voicing it on these threads.

'The fans' are a group of individuals with individual views who happen to support the same team. That doesn't mean they'll think the same on topics like this.

Some will be against the idea of protests altogether, some (like me) recognise the validity but only if it's aimed at the right targets - Glazers, not the players or Ole. Some will be protesting for moral reasons - because they 100% want Glazers out and feel it's the right thing to do. Some will protest more for ego reasons - they love the sense of power it brings and their 15 minutes of fame, etc.

All fans should be able to have a say whether they agree with things that effect their club - and that certainly includes whether they agree with fan protests 'speaking for them' while targeting the training ground and the players and coaches.

It’s just that every thread turns into the same questions. I wanted this thread to have fans who don’t want to argue about who our new owners will be or how we can never afford to buy the club. This thread was just supposed to a space for protesting or dissatisfied fans of any of the SL clubs and those who support them to have discussions without having to answer those above questions every 2nd or 3rd post.

 

[alexthelion]

It’s just that every thread turns into the same questions. I wanted this thread to have fans who don’t want to argue about who our new owners will be or how we can never afford to buy the club. This thread was just supposed to a space for protesting or dissatisfied fans of any of the SL clubs and those who support them to have discussions without having to answer those above questions every 2nd or 3rd post.

But what's the point without answering those questions? They are rather important, after all.

 

[Ali Dia]

So, what I've been saying. Protests/lobbying should be aimed at PL/FA/government to change the rules.

That has to be done before any change of ownership.

I think pressure on the owners is essential to any change. Only way to do that is protest. You’ve seen their sorry letter. That’s it for them now. Back to business. Most fans are too angry to accept that and they are dead right. Too little too late

 

[OleGunnar20]

It's called debate.

It's fecking helpful. If you don't like it, FaceTime yourself.

I call, but he never answers. What's a guy to do.

 

[alexthelion]

I think pressure on the owners is essential to any change. Only way to do that is protest. You’ve seen their sorry letter. That’s it for them now. Back to business. Most fans are too angry to accept that and they are dead right. Too little too late

Wat change do you realistically think the owners will make, unless rules are changed?

 

[Ali Dia]

I emailed the uk government asking for action to be taken on the fan ownership model, after a poster put the email addresses up here yesterday, and I’m sure others have too.
Retweets and likes will help too.

That’s the good stuff!

 

[Ali Dia]

Wat change do you realistically think the owners will make, unless rules are changed?

Well they aren’t going to change any rules until people show how annoyed they are by it for a long time. Why are you going around in circles? Protest brings down governments and we are just a couple of football teams but we can’t succeed in making some change? Nonsense

 

[alexthelion]

Well they aren’t going to change any rules until people show how annoyed they are by it for a long time. Why are you going around in circles? Protest brings down governments. We are just a couple of football teams

I;m not the one going round in circles, I'm asking what change is expected to be made by these protests and what's the point unless the rules are changed?

 

[Tincanalley]

Just caught up on the news coverage. This super league thing isn’t dead, Perez is determined and the owners have put years of work into it. The FA and/or government needs to seriously punish or remove the ownership due to a serious threat on the sport, as the next time they try it, it will be more calculated and subtle .

51% plus wage and transfer caps need to be seriously considered.

100%

 

[Tincanalley]

So, what I've been saying. Protests/lobbying should be aimed at PL/FA/government to change the rules.

That has to be done before any change of ownership.

Do both at once. While they are faltering and JP Morgan isnt answering their calls.

 

[Ali Dia]

I;m not the one going round in circles, I'm asking what change is expected to be made by these protests and what's the point unless the rules are changed?

Ok well then listen to me again. Nothing will change at all on any level if fans stay silent and divided. First and foremast. That what any change is fundamentally based on. What changes will we see until new rules are written? Why would they write new rules and invite outsiders into their cartel when they don’t have to? Nobody is making new rules if nobody protests against the old ones. That goes for the politicians and the owners. Let the fans unite and decide what changes they want to see. Protesting the owners is as much a part of that as anything else seeing as they got us into this mess in the first place.

 

[sglowrider]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Roman?

 

[Ali Dia]

Roman?

I reckon Arsenal. They’ve a big big job on there to get a title challenge going anytime soon

Levy is never going to sell Spurs. It’s his plaything

 

[pascell]

I was already going to vote for him. Now I'll vote for him extra hard.

Steady now.

 

[sglowrider]

I reckon Arsenal. They’ve a big big job on there to get a title challenge going anytime soon

Levy is never going to sell Spurs. It’s his plaything

Kroenke tends to keep his clubs a long time.
My guess is Roman. Had his face slapped by the British govt with his visa revoked a while ago. That's humiliating for a billionaire. Treated like some immigrant or some low level employee on an employment visa.
And now this?

 

[alexthelion]

Ok well then listen to me again. Nothing will change at all on any level if fans stay silent and divided. First and foremast. That what any change is fundamentally based on. What changes will we see until new rules are written? Why would they write new rules and invite outsiders into their cartel when they don’t have to? Nobody is making new rules if nobody protests against the old ones. That goes for the politicians and the owners. Let the fans unite and decide what changes they want to see. Protesting the owners is as much a part of that as anything else seeing as they got us into this mess in the first place.

Exactly, replace the current rules with new ones, but you cannot replace the owners under the current set of rules or you end up back at square one, just with someone different to aim your ire at.

What I've been saying all along, glad you've finally agreed

 

[Ali Dia]

Exactly, replace the current rules with new ones, but you cannot replace the owners under the current set of rules or you end up back at square one, just with someone different to aim your ire at.

What I've been saying all along, glad you've finally agreed

I also said protesting the owners is a different side of the same coin.

 

[Ali Dia]

Kroenke tends to keep his clubs a long time.
My guess is Roman. Had his face slapped by the British govt with his visa revoked a while ago. That's humiliating for a billionaire. Treated like some immigrant or some low level employee on an employment visa.
And now this?

If I was a bookie I’d have Roman last with City. Those guys don’t care about about a couple of hundred million here and there in the same way other owners have to. We make our owners far more money than any of the other 3 so that pretty much leaves Liverpool Spurs or Arsenal.

 

[Thunderhead]

I reckon Arsenal. They’ve a big big job on there to get a title challenge going anytime soon

Levy is never going to sell Spurs. It’s his plaything

but Levy doesn't own Spurs

but as I think Regulous said further up, reform is what is required before even worrying about which crappy owners, PLC's, shady Russians, Human Right abusers are owning football clubs, the problem is I don't see much if any change, might be thrown a tokenistic scrap where a fans group has to have a place on the board but that'll be as good as it gets I'd imaging.

Only way for reform to happen is if everyone stops going to games and doesn't watch on the TV, but that really isn't going to happen, there were some people who were excited for this Super League idea ffs.

 

[croadyman]

We've got a 1 in 6 chance that it's the Glazers.

More likely the scousers or Arsenal

 

[Brightonian]

Guys can we keep new ownership talk out of this for now. There is no new ownership proposed currently. There is also no point in bringing up the Saudi boogeyman at every juncture. If fans get more control in the meantime then we can hopefully better stop that kind of thing from happening in the future or at least lay down a marker that we aren’t going to walked over and lied to whoever comes in. If we sit around now we send the wrong message and we will be even more powerless then. This is the time to get together and take some control back.

Can't agree with this. It's meaningless to demand the departure of one owner without a serious proposal as to an acceptable alternative owner/ownership model and a plan for how to make it happen.