A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino

Skills

Snitch
Joined
Jan 17, 2012
Messages
31,675
Even so, we'd essentially be saying to him "You know that job we trusted you to do 12 months ago? Well it hasn't worked out. We'd like to remove you from it and give it someone we think could do it better."

Hard not to think of that as a demotion.
I'd say it's more like

"We recognise you're not very good at this coaching thing, so we'd rather bring in someone who is. But we think you've done a good job off the field, so want to retain you in that capacity."

It's not as if there are clubs lining up to offer Solskjaer a job, so he'd take it.
 

Infra-red

Full Member
Joined
May 4, 2010
Messages
8,727
Location
left wing
Safe to assume we have abandoned this haven't we?
Yep. Decent form in February and March means that, barring a total collapse in the next couple of weeks, Solskjaer will be here at the beginning of next season and Pochettino will be starting a job elsewhere.
 

Ronaldo's Mum Eh?

Ronaldo is shite
Joined
Jan 25, 2009
Messages
4,865
Location
TORONTO
Yep. Decent form in February and March means that, barring a total collapse in the next couple of weeks, Solskjaer will be here at the beginning of next season and Pochettino will be starting a job elsewhere.
If Ole don't get top 4 he should still be fired.
 

Dve

Full Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2019
Messages
896
id fire even with Top 4 achieved. Why do we only need to fire when things go really wrong?
Yeah, let´s fire when things are going good as well. Just for the fun of it.
 

tomaldinho1

Full Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2015
Messages
4,495
Even if we play fantastic football and win all the remaining games in the league? Really?
Have to look at the season as a whole, as it stands we could have a great finish (cups and CL places up for grabs) but we could also miss out on everything. I think even the most Ole-in fans wouldn't begrudge Poch (or whoever) coming in if we missed out on CL and dropped out of both cups if you look at our squad compared to pretty much any other team.
 

ivaldo

Mediocre Horse Whisperer, s'up wid chew?
Joined
Nov 15, 2012
Messages
24,706
Have to look at the season as a whole, as it stands we could have a great finish (cups and CL places up for grabs) but we could also miss out on everything. I think even the most Ole-in fans wouldn't begrudge Poch (or whoever) coming in if we missed out on CL and dropped out of both cups if you look at our squad compared to pretty much any other team.
If winning trophies/qualifying for tournaments was a prerequisite for keeping his job, then why would we replace him with someone who hasn't won a trophy in his career and was sacked earlier this year for seriously underperforming with a team that has a similar level of talent?

I think the board earmarked this season for rebuilding. Ole has moved on the deadwood, he's revitalised players that looked done, he's introduced youth into the team and every he's been a hit in the transfer market. Our biggest issue has been out inability to create. We've rectified that now, and the squad is finally looking like it could compete in the next year or two. It would be odd to sack him just when everything is falling into place. If we had stagnated, then fair enough, but we're going from strength to strength right now.
 

Dve

Full Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2019
Messages
896
Have to look at the season as a whole, as it stands we could have a great finish (cups and CL places up for grabs) but we could also miss out on everything. I think even the most Ole-in fans wouldn't begrudge Poch (or whoever) coming in if we missed out on CL and dropped out of both cups if you look at our squad compared to pretty much any other team.
We could achieve the longest unbeaten run in our history, and still miss out on CL. But yeah, if we instead go on to losing every game, that´s of course a different story. But sack him if the good run continues, also taken into account the quality of his signings, his massive support among the players, his status as a legend at the club, the change of atmosphere and culture at club? Madness.
 

romufc

Full Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
4,272
The issue with sacking Ole if we get top 4 is that we will be starting yet another cycle.. he will want to implement his own methods, want his players, so 1 season of rebuilding.. so another season wasted.
 

Bebestation

Full Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2019
Messages
1,409
Supports
An adult TV Channel
I really dont like Pochettino's counter attacking, crossing, long ball, target man type approach to football- he is a modern more toned down version of Mourinho to me.

I enjoy Ole's more technical football and I dont believe success can be pulled out in a year especially when coming out from a slump.
 

RedStarUnited

Full Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
6,315
Do you honestly not know the answer to that question?
No I don't, judging by everyones reaction to my comment Top 4 is meant to be good for us.

It's interesting that most of our fans envy other big teams but yet don't want us to behave like them.

The issue with sacking Ole if we get top 4 is that we will be starting yet another cycle.. he will want to implement his own methods, want his players, so 1 season of rebuilding.. so another season wasted.
You are assuming whoever the new coach is wouldnt want the players we already. And this cycle thing is only an issue with us,

I really dont like Pochettino's counter attacking, crossing, long ball, target man type approach to football- he is a modern more toned down version of Mourinho to me.

I enjoy Ole's more technical football and I dont believe success can be pulled out in a year especially when coming out from a slump.
I am not sure you have ever watched a Poch team to come to this conclusion.
 

Eckers99

Michael Corleone says hello
Joined
Aug 9, 2014
Messages
4,265
No I don't, judging by everyones reaction to my comment Top 4 is meant to be good for us
So, in his first full campaign, overseeing yet another overhaul after 7 seasons of scattershot spending under 3 poor managers, one midfielder down due to our failings in the transfer market, and with a host of young and unproven players...you expected better than a couple of cup runs and a shot at the top 4?
 

RedStarUnited

Full Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
6,315
So, in his first full campaign, overseeing yet another overhaul after 7 seasons of scattershot spending under 3 poor managers, one midfielder down due to our failings in the transfer market, and with a host of young and unproven players...you expected better than a couple of cup runs and a shot at the top 4?
Yes, because thats what Madrid, Barca, Juve etc would expect.

Like I said, we envy the above teams but don't ever want to replicate their ruthlessness.
 

Eckers99

Michael Corleone says hello
Joined
Aug 9, 2014
Messages
4,265
Yes, because thats what Madrid, Barca, Juve etc would expect.

Like I said, we envy the above teams but don't ever want to replicate their ruthlessness.
All 3 are in weaker leagues (comparatively speaking) and can withstand a couple of years of mismanagement as they've got a huge financial advantage. They're all guaranteed to stay in the top 4, no matter how bad they are. It's not even comparable.
 

romufc

Full Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
4,272
You are assuming whoever the new coach is wouldnt want the players we already. And this cycle thing is only an issue with us,
No, this cycle is with everyone.

Klopp had a season
Pep had a season

Now those teams are so good it will take a while before a new coach who has never won anything to reach those levels.
 

Bebestation

Full Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2019
Messages
1,409
Supports
An adult TV Channel
No I don't, judging by everyones reaction to my comment Top 4 is meant to be good for us.

It's interesting that most of our fans envy other big teams but yet don't want us to behave like them.



You are assuming whoever the new coach is wouldnt want the players we already. And this cycle thing is only an issue with us,



I am not sure you have ever watched a Poch team to come to this conclusion.
Lucas on one side or Lamela, Puncheon or Llalana playing out wide at Southampton, strikers like Lambert or Llorente playing for him as a tactic- I'm okay thanks.

Much prefer the football I'm seeing now.

I personally lost faith in him on the CL final day when he had to bring Kane back from pre-injury to even feel like he had the chance but didnt have the guts to play a player like Lucas upfront because he couldn't adapt his tactics enough for that match - even though lucas did well to get them there vs Ajax.
 

James Peril

Full Member
Joined
Aug 10, 2016
Messages
2,510
The issue with sacking Ole if we get top 4 is that we will be starting yet another cycle.. he will want to implement his own methods, want his players, so 1 season of rebuilding.. so another season wasted.
Nonsense - and stop using the word re-build, there was never one in the first place. The obvious duds have left, a few remain - the core is pretty decent and something any manager could work with. A new manager needs 2-3 players to make us competitive anyway, and said manager would never get rid om the 8 players that are good enough. Pogba, Rashford, Fernandes et al, they stay regardless. We need to stop accepting being «good at times», we have won 13 out of 31 league games for god’s sake - a better manager would do better. Before any excuse about last summer is served, that was on OGS. Selling Lukaku without a replacement, not smart - which can be seen in the huge gap in goals scored for us vs the best teams. Rashford got injured? Yes, that happens when you need it the most and have no replacements.
 

romufc

Full Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
4,272
Nonsense - and stop using the word re-build, there was never one in the first place. The obvious duds have left, a few remain - the core is pretty decent and something any manager could work with. A new manager needs 2-3 players to make us competitive anyway, and said manager would never get rid om the 8 players that are good enough. Pogba, Rashford, Fernandes et al, they stay regardless. We need to stop accepting being «good at times», we have won 13 out of 31 league games for god’s sake - a better manager would do better. Before any excuse about last summer is served, that was on OGS. Selling Lukaku without a replacement, not smart - which can be seen in the huge gap in goals scored for us vs the best teams. Rashford got injured? Yes, that happens when you need it the most and have no replacements.
Never a rebuild? But we got rid of duds and bought players that fit the squad? What do you call that?

A new manager comes in next season will have 3 weeks to prepare the squad... change of methods, style the lot.

A better manager will do better? Like LVG and Jose? they done really well didnt they?

Selling Lukaku without replacing him? Martial and Rashford have both scored more than Lukaku did last season.
 

Amadaeus

Pochettino's mother (MMM BBC)
Joined
May 8, 2013
Messages
7,035
Location
Amongst footballing managerial 'Gods'
Supports
Mauricio Pochettino
I really dont like Pochettino's counter attacking, crossing, long ball, target man type approach to football- he is a modern more toned down version of Mourinho to me.

I enjoy Ole's more technical football and I dont believe success can be pulled out in a year especially when coming out from a slump.
:lol: you must not watch a lot of football. Ole more technical? We have the least amount of wins when we have majority of possession compared to other top team. Ole knows nothing about technical football. Poch on the other hand as well as Pep follows the same philosophy of Biesla. These managers are the one who promotes beautiful football.

Regardless, Ole seems like he will be giving another season. The only thing going for Ole is that he knows how to buy well in the market, huge support from our board and he creating a positive atmosphere in the dressing room. I doubt that would be enough to return us back on top.
 

rotherham_red

Full Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2005
Messages
5,253
Have to look at the season as a whole, as it stands we could have a great finish (cups and CL places up for grabs) but we could also miss out on everything. I think even the most Ole-in fans wouldn't begrudge Poch (or whoever) coming in if we missed out on CL and dropped out of both cups if you look at our squad compared to pretty much any other team.
I'd certainly fecking begrudge it.

Ole's literally built and improved this squad from the ground up this season. He's put up with the inconsistencies and plain old shit from the likes of Jones, Pereira, Lingard at various points - simply because he hasn't had any other choice. He's seen fit to develop Fred, Rashford, Martial when there were legitimate question marks over all three at various points. He's bought fantastically well, with not a single dud in any of his purchases, and they too have almost without exception, come on leaps and bounds also.

All throughout this season, he's not once complained or bemoaned his situation. He just got on with his job with dignity and self-respect. Carrying himself like a proper Utd manager should.

And now, when we're on the verge of actually getting somewhere, you think it would be right to feck him off if he didn't get Top 4 or CL? Even if he did absolutely everything in his power to get us there? Put it this way, do you think having a fully fit Pogba all the way through this season, as well as a fully fit Martial, McTominay, and Rashford for the accumulative 4 months that they were out between them, would have been worth at least an extra 5 points to us? Because as things stand, those 5 measly points are the only things standing between us and the CL the next season.

There's being spoilt, and then there's this^^
 

Amadaeus

Pochettino's mother (MMM BBC)
Joined
May 8, 2013
Messages
7,035
Location
Amongst footballing managerial 'Gods'
Supports
Mauricio Pochettino
Yes, he hasnt improved Martial, Rashford, Bruno, AWB, Mctominay, Williams.
Only one I give credit in improving might be Williams. I didn’t see much of him in the academy, so I m not sure how well he played. The other followed the natural trajectory of players progression based on past season where McTominay won individual award, Martial broke a consistent goal scoring record, and Bruno, Rashford and AWB, were always highly regarded. Even big Sam and Pulis would have seen similiar performances from these players.
 

romufc

Full Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
4,272
Only one I give credit in improving might be Williams. I didn’t see much of him in the academy, so I m not sure how well he played. The other followed the natural trajectory of players progression based on past season where McTominay won individual award, Martial broke a consistent goal scoring record, and Bruno, Rashford and AWB, were always highly regarded. Even big Sam and Pulis would have seen similiar performances from these players.

Natural progression? Why wasn't Rashford and Martial progressing under Jose?
 

Brightonian

Full Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
13,007
Location
Juanderlust
Have to look at the season as a whole, as it stands we could have a great finish (cups and CL places up for grabs) but we could also miss out on everything. I think even the most Ole-in fans wouldn't begrudge Poch (or whoever) coming in if we missed out on CL and dropped out of both cups if you look at our squad compared to pretty much any other team.
Nah. Sure, the squad looks great now, but Bruno only arrived in January, and we've spent long chunks of the season without Pogba, without Rashford, without McTominay, without a fit Matic. That's a lot of key players. Think where City would be if they'd had massive lay-offs for Sterling, De Bruyne and Fernandinho. And their squad has much better depth of quality than ours does.

In a way, this is the bit of the season where Ole really has no excuse and must get results. If I was deciding on his fate, it wouldn't be so much about where our remaining games end up putting us after our mixed season so far, but just about assessing them on their own merits.
 

Glorio

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jun 16, 2020
Messages
75
Only one I give credit in improving might be Williams. I didn’t see much of him in the academy, so I m not sure how well he played. The other followed the natural trajectory of players progression based on past season where McTominay won individual award, Martial broke a consistent goal scoring record, and Bruno, Rashford and AWB, were always highly regarded. Even big Sam and Pulis would have seen similiar performances from these players.
Did you watch Martial and Rashford before Ole? How about Shaw? And did you watch AWB for Palace at all? Will you really insist on denying an obvious improvement in their games since Ole came?

The amount of entitled muppetry on here is frankly eye-watering. Especially considering we're referring to a United legend here.

It's like you've chosen to turn a blind eye to the horrible situation we'd been in for the past 7 years, and you blindly refuse to acknowledge the marked improvements in mood, application, signings, and style that we've seen gradually come to fruition through the course of the season


If you think anyone could walk into the club and magically convert us to title winners from the mess we were in, I think you may be mistaking real life for Football Manager or FIFA.
 

Eckers99

Michael Corleone says hello
Joined
Aug 9, 2014
Messages
4,265
Natural progression? Why wasn't Rashford and Martial progressing under Jose?
Towards the end, most of the squad looked dire but, apparently, that has nothing to do with the manager. They all just naturally regressed at the same time and then magically progressed this season.

Being a manger must be easy.
 

Amadaeus

Pochettino's mother (MMM BBC)
Joined
May 8, 2013
Messages
7,035
Location
Amongst footballing managerial 'Gods'
Supports
Mauricio Pochettino
Natural progression? Why wasn't Rashford and Martial progressing under Jose?
They were progressing, it was just a difference in tactical approach that saw Rashford output not being as prominent. Jose was an archaic manager, so he emphasized a more defensive counter attack approach that saw Rashford take less shot and support the defensive more. Martial on the other hand, was not played in his best position and we had Lukaku. We are seeing the natural progression of Martial under Van Gaal and his time at Monaco. When he gets more experience in his preferred position, his growth trajectory follows a natural path which is what we are seeing now.
Did you watch Martial and Rashford before Ole? How about Shaw? And did you watch AWB for Palace at all? Will you really insist on denying an obvious improvement in their games since Ole came?

The amount of entitled muppetry on here is frankly eye-watering. Especially considering we're referring to a United legend here.

It's like you've chosen to turn a blind eye to the horrible situation we'd been in for the past 7 years, and you blindly refuse to acknowledge the marked improvements in mood, application, signings, and style that we've seen gradually come to fruition through the course of the season


If you think anyone could walk into the club and magically convert us to title winners from the mess we were in, I think you may be mistaking real life for Football Manager or FIFA.
Yes, they were all highly regarded and as such broke transfer record at their time or got called early for international duty.