Yes. And the transition you speak of has been largely decline towards mid-table.
A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino
- Thread starter NotBrendanRodgers honest
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We shall see soon enough. I'm very confident he'll still be at Spurs next season.
I’m with you, I don’t think he would either. It seems like you have a manager who wants to build a dynasty of his own at a club instead of using it as a stepping stone to bigger things. Do I think we should do everything to prise him away? Yes, but it won’t be easy to say the least. As I said, I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he’s turned us down already. And there’s no way Madrid appointed Lopetegui without trying to get Poch, especially after seeing for themselves how good he is when Spurs beat them 3-1.Haha, please don't.
My point was only that he wanted to leave regardless as there was stuff going on behind the scenes. At southampton he also said that the vision (at Southampton) to challenge for champions league places with mainly a home grown squad was a vision he was attracted to. It seems to me that he enjoy the challenge at Spurs currently, and I'm not sure he would want to leave for PSG, Real Madrid, Manchester United etc., he constantly talk about the challenge of winning things with his project at Spurs.
Of course managers and players usually try to say the right things to the media (except Jose), but he might genuinely want to stay at Spurs and win something here, and he might find that sweeter than winning the French league with PSG.
I’m just saying that acting like you discovered Poch and we should therefore look elsewhere is a bit hypocritical. United/Madrid are just doing to you what you did to Southampton. Do I think that Poch will come here? No. But we’d be mad not to try, and doing so wouldn’t make us any worse than you were when you lured him from St Mary’s.
It's always conjecture with you.
Try forming an opinion based on fact rather than your personal feelings and people might actually take you seriously.
When's Bale signing that new Spurs contract? You know the one you said he was signing a couple of weeks before he pissed off to Madrid?
This form of argument is terrible: "you were wrong before so that means you're probably wrong now". Not only is it a bad argument form if you know anything about logic and making arguments, but it is also a little insulting to the person you're talking with, which doesn't help either. You should attack their argument or opinion, not their ability to form one.
I agree he will end up at Real or PSG but don’t embarrass yourself into thinking he would manage Barca.
I posted the below in another thread but I didn't add the fact that Poch had previously foiled Pep's Barca time and again whilst at Espanyol. I was hoping for a tactical masterclass from Spurs against City when the two teams met some weeks ago but unfortunately, Spurs where badly off form on that monday and though they made life difficult for City, the latter's single goal early on was enough to get the job done.
Poch raises the game of his players and is very tactically adept. I wish we could get him.
Here is the post in italics below:
Spurs (and by extension Poch) have a knack for decoding and breaking top teams in the league. Once again they decoded Sarri's chelsea as they did Pep's first team in the epl (by outmuscling them physically and being tight on them) and Conte's Chelsea (by exploiting space behind their wingbacks and their aerial weakness).
On saturday Poch showed again why he is highly regarded by many. He recognized that stopping Jorghino would effectively disrupt Chelsea's rhythm and that worked to a tee. Chelsea was totally destroyed by Spurs.
I expect to see other clubs copy this model going forward.
Poch raises the game of his players and is very tactically adept. I wish we could get him.
Here is the post in italics below:
Spurs (and by extension Poch) have a knack for decoding and breaking top teams in the league. Once again they decoded Sarri's chelsea as they did Pep's first team in the epl (by outmuscling them physically and being tight on them) and Conte's Chelsea (by exploiting space behind their wingbacks and their aerial weakness).
On saturday Poch showed again why he is highly regarded by many. He recognized that stopping Jorghino would effectively disrupt Chelsea's rhythm and that worked to a tee. Chelsea was totally destroyed by Spurs.
I expect to see other clubs copy this model going forward.
@InLevyITrust @GlastonSpur
Hey guys can you tell me what happened to Spurs 3 at the back formation? Do you miss it or are you glad it's finished? What exactly stopped from that continuing?
The 352 is the formation I've wanted to see at United ever since LVG played it in his first season but with younger players with more energy in relative partnerships across the field. The closest I saw to such a thing was actually at spurs about 2 seasons ago - & whilst I am excited for someone like Howe to come in; it's not like I'd end up crying if ppchettino came here & made us play the 352 here.
So what did you think of that formation, were the reason he couldn't continue it was down to his managerial mistakes or were they due to a lack of players for that position? Do you miss it being played or are you happy for ever that it is gone.
As I said I thought you were wonderful when you played that especially dier as a 3rd CB - but then again I don't watch all that much of you guys to be the most accurate commentator.
Hey guys can you tell me what happened to Spurs 3 at the back formation? Do you miss it or are you glad it's finished? What exactly stopped from that continuing?
The 352 is the formation I've wanted to see at United ever since LVG played it in his first season but with younger players with more energy in relative partnerships across the field. The closest I saw to such a thing was actually at spurs about 2 seasons ago - & whilst I am excited for someone like Howe to come in; it's not like I'd end up crying if ppchettino came here & made us play the 352 here.
So what did you think of that formation, were the reason he couldn't continue it was down to his managerial mistakes or were they due to a lack of players for that position? Do you miss it being played or are you happy for ever that it is gone.
As I said I thought you were wonderful when you played that especially dier as a 3rd CB - but then again I don't watch all that much of you guys to be the most accurate commentator.
Never say never!
One issue I see is, that he's on a long contract at Spurs. He'll probably want something fairly long here as well. I personally don't think we should be giving anything more than 2 year contracts to managers.
I haven’t, Poch has.
We never really played with 3 at the back so to speak, it was more 3 at the back when defending with Dier dropping in from midfield. We play a 4-2-3-1 although against Chelsea it was more a 4-3-3 (I wish he would stick with this).
We seem more dangerous when we don’t want the ball all the time, it allows us to use the counter more and have more space. Chelsea had 61% of the ball at the weekend but we had far more chances than we usually do, I wish Poch would set us up like that more.
Ahh I see - tbf dier dropping in from midfield to the centre of defence like a false CB is exactly what I want to see at United rather than playing a static back 3. Likewise I'd like the front 2 of the 352 play on either side of a False 9 that goes from AM to CF.
Having 2 at the front with an AM that joins them when the space opens on the attack.
Plus
Having 2 at the back with a DM that drops in when the space opens at the back when we defend.
A cohesive changing of formation that may allow us to go from 2-3-5 on the defence to 5-3-2 on the attack.
It's hardly conjecture to see that the appeal of United is not what it was under Fergie - you only have to look at your post-Fergie placings in the league to see this.
That's not really true - Dier dropping back when needed to go in between 2 CBs is a separate thing.
We have on several past occasions played with 3 CBs - Sanchez + Toby + Vertonghen, but it's a formation that suits proper wingbacks, which neither Trippier or Davies are. Rose fits the bill, but he's been out lot with injury and maybe that's one reason why we haven't used 3 at the back for a while.
In the last couple seasons, we looked worse playing with back 3 (5-3-2) than 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3. We couldn't keep hold of the ball whenever we played with 3 at the back (understandably because we would have one less player up the field). Maybe it is because teams are now more adept to playing against 5-3-2. The last time I remember us did well with back 3 was against Juventus in Turin last year.
Where all the predictions of a mass exodus from Spurs involving all our best players … you know, the ones that started 4 or 5 years ago and are repeated each summer?
I'll tell you: they've gone into the dustbin.
Cause of Espanyol?
there's more stuff in their than your trophy cabinet
Wonder what will happen first, Spurs becoming a football powerhouse or United winning the league again.
Correct, said a few times he would never betray the fans of Espanyol or us for that matter by managing a city rival.
Agreed I meant for any length or time or success for that matter, I must remember not to say never lol.
You obviously know little about our trophy cabinet.
how many have you seen them life in your lifetime?
What difference does that make? I might be 101 years old for all you know.
There are plenty of clubs with far fewer trophies than Spurs.
Well until your club starts winning some stop ridiculing my club.
Both Aston Villa and Everton have more trophies than Spurs.
Does that make them bigger clubs?
It's hardly ridiculing your club to believe that (a) Pochettino will not leave Spurs for United; and (b) that United have declined since Fergie.
I'll leave you to ponder such deep questions.
Yet the fanbase grows exponentially, the club continues to record record-breaking profits year after year, along with being a highly attractive prospect for big name players such as Di Maria, Falcao, BFS, Pogba, Sanchez among others.
United are simply in a transition period (albeit a somewhat extended one!) they just need to find the right manager to bring it all together. Poch may very well be that man.
Everything you have said here is absolutely spot on.
Wait a minute, does Ed read redcafe?
Do we honestly think he'd take the job if he were offered mid way through a season? I know we are United and all but he's building a bit of a project at Spurs, has a new stadium lined up and arguably has a much better squad available to him than he'd get here.
Much better squad? Wouldn't say that.
He said recently his long term future is at the club, signed a new contract months ago, didn’t kick up any fuss about Madrid... I really don’t know why anyone thinks he would wanna leave at this point in time.
I would. We massively overrate our squad. Spurs have quality all over.
Saying that, Man Utd is still a huge pull for any manager. We wouldn’t get Poch now, but if we really wanted him in the summer and gave him a project, funds, and a long term contract, he’d come.
Every young ambitious manager out there will want to be the first manager post Fergie to win the league with Utd. It’s still a desirable job.
Look at Chelsea. They’re good one season, terrible the next. They still attract the best managers.
And we were second last season. Europa League winners season before. FA Cup winners season before that. It’s not like we finish 7th every year or finish every season without a trophy *cough*.
People honestly thinking he would come to us over Madrid?
I honestly think he is quite invested in his Spurs project at the moment.
He will move later in his career absolutely. I just feel it will be to RM, Perez loves the guy and has wanted him for a while.
I honestly think he is quite invested in his Spurs project at the moment.
He will move later in his career absolutely. I just feel it will be to RM, Perez loves the guy and has wanted him for a while.
I like him but he needs to win something with this Spurs team as they are better than this Utd one. If he can't do it with them, he certainly can't do it with us. Also I'm not sure about his signing either.....
So you cherry pick post Fergie years to emphasize Utd's slump but when someone picks a timeframe(the last decade, possibly should be considering more than that), you suggest them to consider silverware won by Spurs in prehistoric ages?
United is declining, true. But they also have achieved much more than Spurs during their worse years while Spurs are at their peak.
If money is right, and a big budget will be available to improve the squad, any manager or player will come to join Man Utd. Man Utd is one of the biggest club in the world in terms of revenue, so your pulling power is huge.
Think Spurs have done well to weather this period whilst having to play at Wembley. If they can finish top four again this season then they are in a decent position for growth in the next few years. Can't see Pochettino easily leaving something which is essentially his project. The lure of living in London will probably help them too.