A serious look at Mauricio Pochettino

[SquishyMcSquish]

Pochettino's only problem as a manager is his in game management in big matches is really very poor. I can think of only a few occasions where we've made meaningful substitutions in these scenarios, and in quite a few games opposition managers have made changes which he's been unable to respond to (best example of this was Allegri last season, and also Emery last week) and we've ended up having a period in the second half where we're very slow to react to these changes and the match is lost.

It's very, very frustrating because he doesn't seem to learn from it. And when games become tight, tactical affairs (knockout vs Juve, 2 semis vs chelsea, semi vs United) we're at our worst. Sometimes he even shoots himself in the foot with bizarre choices from the start (Son at wing back vs Chelsea, our defence vs Arsenal, Aurier vs any fecking side who are decent) which almost always seem to backfire. That game vs Inter this season ..you simply can't be leading a game in the 85th minute then end up losing, and we still have far too many moments on these kind of occasions where we throw away our good work over a season.

I adore Pochettino, and honestly I think after Guardiola he's the second best coach in the league. He's done fantastic work at the club. But I do wonder if he would be suited to an elite club, where a big part of how he is judged will be his ability to give his team an edge during the big occasions. I do wonder if he's not better suited to a club like us, where he can work without the expectations and develop younger players with a lot of freedom. Far too many people assume that just because you overachieve at a club, you automatically would be a fantastic fit at the likes of a Madrid.

Look at Emery for example .. at Sevilla he did fantastic work and he's doing great at Arsenal now as well. But at PSG he was pretty shocking in the CL and Monaco even won the league during his time there. He had unlimited resources and world class players to work with but he just wasn't the right fit for that type of club.

 

[GlastonSpur]

Only Poch could buy his way out of the contact, which would be a massive amount the amount remaining on his contract. It won’t happen, I can’t remember any manager or player actually doing it he would be a PR disaster and Poch simply isn’t the tripe to even consider it.

Yes. And he wouldn't even need to consider it because if he wanted to leave then he's gone, provided the club he wants to go to pays Spurs a large compensation sum in recognition of his long current contract.

It's not practical for any club to force a manager to stay against his wishes.

 

[Redo91]

Listening to UWS post-Arsenal and Mitten was talking to James Cooper from sky Sports who is based in Manchester. Both said they from what they have heard the board want to go all out for Poch.

 

[VJ1762]

What am I hearing? Has Woody finally woken up and smelt the coffee? We should go all guns blazing for Poch IMO. Or Zidane.

Please football gods, let this be true. Can't take this sideways passing, hoofing football anymore.

 

[VJ1762]

Listening to UWS post-Arsenal and Mitten was talking to James Cooper from sky Sports who is based in Manchester. Both said they from what they have heard the board want to go all out for Poch.

This is probably the first bit of good news/rumours that I have read on the Cafe for quite some time. This place can get utterly depressing at times.

 

[Random Task]

Listening to UWS post-Arsenal and Mitten was talking to James Cooper from sky Sports who is based in Manchester. Both said they from what they have heard the board want to go all out for Poch.

Poch is the most obvious target given the options available to us at this point. Whether we can secure his services ahead of interest from Real Madrid is another matter, though.

He will end up at one of our clubs before long - this summer being my bet - let's hope he chooses United.

 

[breakout67]

Hopefully its paper bollocks since paying £40m to buy out a manager that hasn't won a single trophy in 8 years is ludicrous when better managers like Conte and Zidane don't come with a fee. It would however be classic from the board to go 'all out' for a manager that has just signed a 5 year extension.

 

[Johan07]

Only Poch could buy his way out of the contact, which would be a massive amount the amount remaining on his contract. It won’t happen, I can’t remember any manager or player actually doing it he would be a PR disaster and Poch simply isn’t the tripe to even consider it.

OK, so you are saying that Pochettino can buy himself out of the contract.
You also are saying that he would have to pay a "massive amount". I have seen this "amount" being referred to as the value of his entire contract. That would be around 40m maybe?
I didnt post this question just with regard to Pochettino because I sincerely agree on that he most likely will not be moving anytime soon and if he would, it would most likely be to warmer places than Manchester.
I am interesting in the legal basis for what you are saying. And if thats really correct: that in the UK an employee can buy himself out of his contract by paying the wage value of the same contract. If this is what you are suggesting.
Or if this is just a narrative that is being floated around by the tabloids, because I have seen it before.
I have a history of meddling (ok, working) in sports and labor law in Sweden, and this is not a rule that would be apply back home.
Its not difficult for a manager to leave his club in Sweden without the draconian cost/liability that you and many tabloids seem to be suggesting when it comes to managers as Pochettino.
And I am not saying that you are wrong at all, I would just really appreciate some legal grounds for what you are saying.
One cannot draw parallells between players and managers contracts in my mind and where I have been practising law. The first is governed by registration issues and some particular case law as the Bosman ruling. A manager is not really more than an employee of the club and subject to common employment legislation.
At least that´s how it is in Sweden.
So please develop the grounds for what you are suggesting or if someone else has some input on this issue I would be really interested.
Thanks for replying btw.

 

[VJ1762]

Hopefully its paper bollocks since paying £40m to buy out a manager that hasn't won a single trophy in 8 years is ludicrous when better managers like Conte and Zidane don't come with a fee. It would however be classic from the board to go 'all out' for a manager that has just signed a 5 year extension.

Bro, we have wasted 35 million pounds on Mourinho( salary for him to do feck all), who got us 2 mickey mouse trophies and 8th fecking place. I think 40 million pounds would be a worthwile investment, considering we paid that sum for Matic. And I like that he has a clear style of how he wants his teams to play, which is what we need the most right now. He is also very experienced in the PL. And I would be fine with Zidane too. But I don't understand how you want us to go for a manager like Conte. His team's performance at the Etihad last season was a disgrace. We need a refresh.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

OK, so you are saying that Pochettino can buy himself out of the contract.
You also are saying that he would have to pay a "massive amount". I have seen this "amount" being referred to as the value of his entire contract. That would be around 40m maybe?
I didnt post this question just with regard to Pochettino because I sincerely agree on that he most likely will not be moving anytime soon and if he would, it would most likely be to warmer places than Manchester.
I am interesting in the legal basis for what you are saying. And if thats really correct: that in the UK an employee can buy himself out of his contract by paying the wage value of the same contract. If this is what you are suggesting.
Or if this is just a narrative that is being floated around by the tabloids, because I have seen it before.
I have a history of meddling (ok, working) in sports and labor law in Sweden, and this is not a rule that would be apply back home.
Its not difficult for a manager to leave his club in Sweden without the draconian cost/liability that you and many tabloids seem to be suggesting when it comes to managers as Pochettino.
And I am not saying that you are wrong at all, I would just really appreciate some legal grounds for what you are saying.
One cannot draw parallells between players and managers contracts in my mind and where I have been practising law. The first is governed by registration issues and some particular case law as the Bosman ruling. A manager is not really more than an employee of the club and subject to common employment legislation.
At least that´s how it is in Sweden.
So please develop the grounds for what you are suggesting or if someone else has some input on this issue I would be really interested.
Thanks for replying btw.

What i said can happen but we have no idea of any clauses or penalties that might or might not be included in the contract. There is no real answer because we aren’t privy to the ins and outs of it. My friend works on a contract for a bank, that way he can be self-employed. In his contract he can buy his way out by paying the full amount of his basic salary but he wouldn’t be able to work for another UK employer form something like 2 years.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

Poch is the most obvious target given the options available to us at this point. Whether we can secure his services ahead of interest from Real Madrid is another matter, though.

He will end up at one of our clubs before long - this summer being my bet - let's hope he chooses United.

It won’t be this summer no matter how much you wish it was, and if Real or PSG are in at the same time maybe in 2 -3 years I’d say he would opt for either of them, simply due to his roots.

 

[HerefordSpur]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/dec/04/maurico-pochettino-tottenham-hotspur-arsenal



What would Poch know about celebrating trophies? Its telling he said "when I was a player". Also.......

[cant quote images as I’m a newbie]

Spurs after beating Liverpool 4-1 last season.

Mate, it’s not a photo of them celebrating anything. It’s a photo of them posing with Kobe Bryant, as just about anyone who met him would want to do.

 

[Johan07]

What i said can happen but we have no idea of any clauses or penalties that might or might not be included in the contract. There is no real answer because we aren’t privy to the ins and outs of it. My friend works on a contract for a bank, that way he can be self-employed. In his contract he can buy his way out by paying the full amount of his basic salary but he wouldn’t be able to work for another UK employer form something like 2 years.

Yeah, 24 months is the maximum length of a competition clause in the EU. So that makes kinda sense. We have the same in Sweden.
Its one of the things that I reacted to when it came to this particular situation. I have a hard time seeing how you can lock an employee up for longer than 24 months if he chooses to terminate his employment.
The liability of paying the entire salary for the entire term of the contract seems even weirder to me though. Its the other way around in Sweden: the former employer actually has to pay the salary to enforce the competition clause during those 24 months.
Thing is that employee contracts are in most EU-countries governed by mandatory legislation, does not matter what fines, etc you put in the contract. The 24 month rule is a good example. And most of these rules are similar within the EU; based on the freedom to work and movement.
I am just interested in how this is governed in the UK.
In Sweden for example an employee can never be liable for more than 3 months wages if he/she breaks his/hers employment contract.
So if anyone knows about the basis of this narrative that seems to be going around of a manager having to pay the entire value of his contract to be free to take up another employment, I would be happy to receive a PM.
Sorry for messing up the thread but it has some relevance to Pochettino, even if I dont think he will be heading to Manchester either.

 

[Adisa]

Would give my arm.

 

[breakout67]

Bro, we have wasted 35 million pounds on Mourinho( salary for him to do feck all), who got us 2 mickey mouse trophies and 8th fecking place. I think 40 million pounds would be a worthwile investment, considering we paid that sum for Matic. And I like that he has a clear style of how he wants his teams to play, which is what we need the most right now. He is also very experienced in the PL. And I would be fine with Zidane too. But I don't understand how you want us to go for a manager like Conte. His team's performance at the Etihad last season was a disgrace. We need a refresh.

No one in their right mind would spend £40m just to secure the services of a manager that is the best in the world never mind Pochettino who is nowhere near that level.

As for the comments on Conte. He has a distinct style of play, gets his players to execute a gameplan well and has knowledge of managing a massive club. The suggestion that Pochettino is a better manager than Conte is devoid of evidence, Conte not only showed a good level with Siena by getting them promoted but took a 7th place Juventus to triple champions (also going undefeated). He was the one that started Juventus' domination of Seria A in recent times.

Pochettino is a good up and coming manager, who I would welcome at the club if he came. But if you are insistent on buying out a contract then I would get Favre, who will have 1 year left come the end of the season and has a high chance of winning the Bundesliga. He has got Dortmund playing very well.

 

[red woppit]

Not sure Pochettino would want to leave Tottenham to join a club that have problems. It also seems to be a lot of money to buy out a contract for somebody whose team plays fantastic football, but always seems to fall at the final hurdle. Does that represent the character of the manager, most teams seem to mirror that in their performances. Personally I would go for Jardim.

 

[acnumber9]

Pochettino's only problem as a manager is his in game management in big matches is really very poor. I can think of only a few occasions where we've made meaningful substitutions in these scenarios,

In fairness to Pochettino, Sours don’t have as much depth on the bench to effectively change things as some clubs have.

 

[Redo91]

This is probably the first bit of good news/rumours that I have read on the Cafe for quite some time. This place can get utterly depressing at times.

Poch is the most obvious target given the options available to us at this point. Whether we can secure his services ahead of interest from Real Madrid is another matter, though.

He will end up at one of our clubs before long - this summer being my bet - let's hope he chooses United.

Ya Mitten in particular is very clued in with what is going on at the club so it is promising coming from him. He was of the opinion that Poch would want to come in the summer but I wouldn’t share the same optimism.

 

[Johan07]

No one in their right mind would spend £40m just to secure the services of a manager that is the best in the world never mind Pochettino who is nowhere near that level.

As for the comments on Conte. He has a distinct style of play, gets his players to execute a gameplan well and has knowledge of managing a massive club. The suggestion that Pochettino is a better manager than Conte is devoid of evidence, Conte not only showed a good level with Siena by getting them promoted but took a 7th place Juventus to triple champions (also going undefeated). He was the one that started Juventus' domination of Seria A in recent times.

Pochettino is a good up and coming manager, who I would welcome at the club if he came. But if you are insistent on buying out a contract then I would get Favre, who will have 1 year left come the end of the season and has a high chance of winning the Bundesliga. He has got Dortmund playing very well.

Until someone can refer to legal grounds for why it would cost Pochettino 40m to break his contract I question it very much. The Sun and the Mail doesnt count, See discussion above.
He is an employee, not a registered player.
He wont leave Spurs for us anyway, but thats another matter.

 

[Adisa]

Doesn't matter who pays the £40m. Spurs are not going to force a coach to stay.
All that matters is if he wants to come and that's a big if.

 

[breakout67]

Until someone can refer to legal grounds for why it would cost Pochettino 40m to break his contract I question it very much. The Sun and the Mail doesnt count, See discussion above.
He is an employee, not a registered player.
He wont leave Spurs for us anyway, but thats another matter.

I dont think it has anything to do with legality. Pochettino believes in the project at Spurs and the hierarchy at Spurs have complete faith in him. So the only way I see this happening is if we offer a juicy fee equivalent to his wages to soften the blow. I don't think Pochettino would sully his relationships at Spurs and force the sack on himself so we wouldn't have to pay anything.

 

[MouChou]

If he is to leave Spurs it will only be for Madrid or Man City (after pep fecks off).
Don't get your hopes up too soon friends.

 

[Johan07]

I dont think it has anything to do with legality. Pochettino believes in the project at Spurs and the hierarchy at Spurs have complete faith in him. So the only way I see this happening is if we offer a juicy fee equivalent to his wages to soften the blow. I don't think Pochettino would sully his relationships at Spurs and force the sack on himself so we wouldn't have to pay anything.

No, I agree completely. He wont join us. For those reasons among others.
But again: thats another issue.
The number 40m is being thrown around here and in the tabloids as some kind of transfer fee, and that its set in stone. I have even seen posts that states that Levy would not let him go unless someone offers Pogba-money.
I just dont get the basis for this. He is not transferable. Manager. Not player. He is an employee, nothing else.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

In fairness to Pochettino, Sours don’t have as much depth on the bench to effectively change things as some clubs have.

He can easily change up the game tactically, be more pragmatic and try and hold a lead, numerous games he couldn’t help but keep on with his “philosophy” rather than seeing out the game. We play very well in games where we don’t dominate the ball and press hard, but some games we try and keep the ball
And do little with it.

 

[breakout67]

No, I agree completely. He wont join us. For those reasons among others.
But again: thats another issue.
The number 40m is being thrown around here and in the tabloids as some kind of transfer fee, and that its set in stone. I have even seen posts that states that Levy would not let him go unless someone offers Pogba-money.
I just dont get the basis for this. He is not transferable. Manager. Not player. He is an employee, nothing else.

Is he not transferable or is it simply industry practice not to transfer managers and only hire them when they are out of contract?

Is there a law against paying managers to buy out their contracts?

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

Is he not transferable or is it simply industry practice not to transfer managers and only hire them when they are out of contract?

Is there a law against paying managers to buy out their contracts?

Well you can’t approach him without Levy’s concent surely? Or is tapping up a manager legal?

 

[Johan07]

Is he not transferable or is it simply industry practice not to transfer managers and only hire them when they are out of contract?

Is there a law against paying managers to buy out their contracts?

The question for me is whether there is legislation in place that would force a manager to "buy out his contract" if he wanted to leave. Its something that is very strange from a labor law perspective. To me at least.
Well, i have made my point/question by now. Will not go on about it.

 

[Johan07]

Well you can’t approach him without Levy’s concent surely? Or is tapping up a manager legal?

Why should it be? Is headhunting illegal?
Again: not a player. Not registered and subject to PL or UEFA/FIFA rules on players.
There are plenty of employees that moves between clubs: scouts, lesser coaches, etc.
So yeah: i would say its legal.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

I think he's an exceptional coach.

I'd love him to be our next manager.

 

[breakout67]

The question for me is whether there is legislation in place that would force a manager to "buy out his contract" if he wanted to leave. Its something that is very strange from a labor law perspective. To me at least.
Well, i have made my point/question by now. Will not go on about it.

Yeh, I think he wouldn't be forced, rather he would want to leave Spurs with something if left all of a sudden since he is seen as a key figure there. Thank you for the discussion anyway

 

[E-mal]

Would give my arm.

I know you would. You like him

 

[Adisa]

I know you would. You like him

Been a fan of him since his Southampton side came to Old Trafford and pressed us like hell.
Follows him closely since then and think he's a top coach.

 

[Random Task]

It won’t be this summer no matter how much you wish it was, and if Real or PSG are in at the same time maybe in 2 -3 years I’d say he would opt for either of them, simply due to his roots.

You're welcome to your opinion, of course, but I think the time is right for Poch to progress his career on to bigger and better things. He took over a mediocre Spurs team and turned them into a genuine top 4 club, which is a monumental achievement given the limited resources at his disposal, but let's face it, he and Spurs have been treading water ever since they peaked during the Leicester anomaly, since then they haven't come close winning a title or that of securing a trophy of any kind. They have simply stagnated. He has taken Spurs as far as he can and it's time to move on.

He won't find himself short of suitors if he does decide to leave this summer, that's for sure. It's simply a matter of the interested parties being willing to buy out his contract and personally, I don't think Perez or Woodward will have an issue paying the fee as long as Poch is agreeable to the move.

 

[Greck]

Between Jardim and Poch we are actually in a decent situation. A decent situation I can't help but feel we'll royally feck up

 

[Canagel]

Not sure Pochettino would want to leave Tottenham to join a club that have problems. It also seems to be a lot of money to buy out a contract for somebody whose team plays fantastic football, but always seems to fall at the final hurdle. Does that represent the character of the manager, most teams seem to mirror that in their performances. Personally I would go for Jardim.

I'd be happy with either but would pick Jardim first due to his European pedigree. Monaco reached quarter final and semi final of CL . just think tactically he knows how to get the job done whereas Pochettino lacks a bit of in-game management in the big games.

 

[GlastonSpur]

You're welcome to your opinion, of course, but I think the time is right for Poch to progress his career on to bigger and better things. He took over a mediocre Spurs team and turned them into a genuine top 4 club, which is a monumental achievement given the limited resources at his disposal, but let's face it, he and Spurs have been treading water ever since they peaked during the Leicester anomaly, since then they haven't come close winning a title or that of securing a trophy of any kind. They have simply stagnated. He has taken Spurs as far as he can and it's time to move on.

He won't find himself short of suitors if he does decide to leave this summer, that's for sure. It's simply a matter of the interested parties being willing to buy out his contract and personally, I don't think Perez or Woodward will have an issue paying the fee as long as Poch is agreeable to the move.

Largely retaining top 4 status whilst building a fantastic new stadium is hardly "treading water": it's laying solid foundations for decades-long financial gain - which in turn means more money to invest in the squad - as well as making the club a more attractive proposition all-round.

Moreover, your assertion that Spurs can't improve further is just wishful thinking.

I also think it's a big stretch to consider any potential move to United as moving onto to "better things".

 

[Berbaclass]

Are people not considering resignation as a legitimate scenario here? Amongst all this talk of paying off contracts etc. If it came to it I’m sure he would resign and we give him a big signing on fee for doing so.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

You're welcome to your opinion, of course, but I think the time is right for Poch to progress his career on to bigger and better things. He took over a mediocre Spurs team and turned them into a genuine top 4 club, which is a monumental achievement given the limited resources at his disposal, but let's face it, he and Spurs have been treading water ever since they peaked during the Leicester anomaly, since then they haven't come close winning a title or that of securing a trophy of any kind. They have simply stagnated. He has taken Spurs as far as he can and it's time to move on.

He won't find himself short of suitors if he does decide to leave this summer, that's for sure. It's simply a matter of the interested parties being willing to buy out his contract and personally, I don't think Perez or Woodward will have an issue paying the fee as long as Poch is agreeable to the move.

I agree with much of what you say but simply Poch is a different character to a lot of manager, and as a Spurs fan I know a lot of managers. He is the second longest reigning manager in the PL and he needs to be sold a project rather than simply just a chance of winning trophies, he has no agent and conducts himself with a modest charm.

How you can say we are stagnating when we are competing with ever richer clubs season in season out doesn’t click with me. If it did he would have been a lot more open in the summer to joining Madrid. I can see why you want him, but I don’t see the timing happening in the next season or too, again so many fans have an opinion without actually listenting to the man himself. Again he will move on IMO but it won’t be in the foreseeable season or two. If Woodward really thought it was possible Jose would be sacked right now. When he does go it will be to Madrid or PSG, who he has more of a tie to.

 

[LilyWhiteSpur]

Are people not considering resignation as a legitimate scenario here? Amongst all this talk of paying off contracts etc. If it came to it I’m sure he would resign and we give him a big signing on fee for doing so.

If he resigns I very much doubt he would be able to join another club right away. Can I ask why do you think Poch wants to reisgn? What indicators made you believe this was a possibility?

 

[sam147]

'A serious look'. He is such an overrated manager. He would fit perfectly into the Glazernomics outlook as he doesn't moan about signings. He might be good at developing players but he isnt a magician look at Janssen. What it all boils down to is he undeniably has the second best squad in the league. Yet he bottles trophies all the time. He lost the league to Leicester. He bottles UCL fixtures. He is not a winner. He does all this at Spurs under zero pressure. At United he would capitulate. We need a manager will strong will, a style of play and above all else a winning mentality. Zidane is a risk but one I would prefer over Poch. Simeone and Allegri are also a league above Poch.