Yeah he only out tactic'd other crap coaches like Jose, Poch, Pep, Tuchel and the like. Continue with your delusions.
A tactical shift from Ole? Shirley not
- Thread starter Bubz27
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Great read.
It just reinforces the point that Ole isn't tactically clueless as people claim him to be - the guy has beaten nearly every top team he has faced since he's taken charge, with each of those wins being fully deserved. I still believe he can make us competitors for the title and with better players maybe even win the league here.
It just reinforces the point that Ole isn't tactically clueless as people claim him to be - the guy has beaten nearly every top team he has faced since he's taken charge, with each of those wins being fully deserved. I still believe he can make us competitors for the title and with better players maybe even win the league here.
The fact you just told me he out tacticed Tuchel to try win an argument is funny on its own.
But have the stage mate how did he out tactic these managers. What did nullify? What did he exploit?
If James struggles to play as a forward in
James - Martial - Greenwood
Then
Martial - Greenwood - Mata
Might be a better change of tactics short term to provide some creativity.
James - Martial - Greenwood
Then
Martial - Greenwood - Mata
Might be a better change of tactics short term to provide some creativity.
The difference is this is a Liverpool team that has been together for 3 seasons.
We are only starting to put a United team together.
If Trent was out for the season and then they lost Mane and Firminho for parts of the season alongside VVD it would most definitely throw their system off. You must be very naive to think otherwise.
Come on, Kimpembe, Kehrer and Buffon ridiculous mistakes were part of a tactical plan.
Looks as if someone didn't read the article and commented anyway.
It's less the players and more the minute, fine details IMO. I think Ole is tactically astute, but needs a very detail-oriented assistant who can bring an extra 50% to our play, especially our positional play.
Things like set-pieces, organization, and the like are missing from the team, and that comes straight from the training ground. If Ole gets a better assistant who can effectively coach these things (kinda like how Klopp upgraded from Buvac to Ljinders), then I see us going up a level, even with the same set of players. He's obviously a good tactician. But more of a "big picture" kind.
I don't know. I mean how can your tactics be right when you draw or lose most of your games?
thats three or four key players out. the tactics according to the video, had to be completely reshaped as they became redundant, as witnessed with the team struggling to create chances, with just 1 player missing, (Pogba as a deep lying playmaker at the beginning of the season), there is/was no one else at the club that can play the role. so pretty poor planning through all of pre-season not to prepare for that.
It's not been right -
He's used James out wide as a winger on the right when we need a inside cutting RW like Greenwood or even Mata instead is better when martial plays as a false 9.
This also allows space for fullbacks to provide the width whilst your wider forwards cut in and score goals.
The problem has been that Ole has hardly started Greenwood with Rashford & Martial.
Yup to me this is a key part.
In the beginning of the season when James' confidence was high and he played on the left, he was showing his good ball-striking technique and banging in some decent ranged goals. Now he's snatching a bit at chances, but hopefully with another run on the left, he'll start to play more like a wide forward again, and get back on the scoresheet.
I think he's a smart player, more than just a pace merchant, and I back him to succeed to at the very least rotation level on the left, interchanging with Martial and Greenwood.
Yes it does say that but when we lost Pogba, we also lost Martial at the same time too. Pogba is a robust player generally and is a player who you cannot replace easily.
It's like saying Barca should have a plan B incase Messi gets injured.
You can do that if you have a solid Plan A which works all the time. We had only started to develop this style of play with Pogba as well so, yes some of it is down to poor planning but replacing Pogba is not as easy as you might think it is.
Will you say that it is poor planning from City because it is clear that losing Laporte has had a massive impact?
You don't go into a season on a what if. Look at Liverpool where they didnt sign anyone and if Mane and Trent were out people would call it poor planning too.
Fine margins here.
False
I don't really get why people think that it's a good article it's extremely superficial and makes links that don't exist. For example Pogba's role for France isn't the same as his role for Ole, simply because the teams aren't built the same way, he doesn't have the same defensive or offensive roles and both teams cover space differently in midfield which has a big influence on what is expected from Pogba..And it's the same for the rest, basically the article mentions very basic things that are done by a lot of teams and players but put a spin on it by linking it to three teams that have recently had success.
You cope with writing them.
They don’t dominate possession?
Possession is part of their defense.
Exactly. So their zonal marking isn’t going to be exposed as often. I’m not debating whether it’s the right way to defend or not but using a team who are shit at actual defending to prove it’s great isn’t going to work. Ultimately if you’re going to use it your players need to be attacking the ball and blocking runners. Our team aren’t doing that.
It was the match against Newcastle where we saw the real united & only once this season due to injuries. Really is sad but honestly Newcastle as average as a team they maybe - we were playing around them for fun & it was great to watch.
Rashford - Martial - Greenwood
- pereira
Fred. - Pogba /mctomminay
Shaw - Maguire - Lindelof - AWB
Pogba came on and we ended the match with 22 shots running around Newcastle.
Can't believe we haven't got to see that team yet more often.
It's the first time that reminded me of the first 11 games Ole came in and did well.
Rashford - Martial - Greenwood
- pereira
Fred. - Pogba /mctomminay
Shaw - Maguire - Lindelof - AWB
Pogba came on and we ended the match with 22 shots running around Newcastle.
Can't believe we haven't got to see that team yet more often.
It's the first time that reminded me of the first 11 games Ole came in and did well.
Excellent article, one mistyped left for right aside. Very well argued.
Why can’t we defend corners though?
Why can’t we defend corners though?
They do. However, you overrate the impact of their possession on their defense. In Pep's first season and this season, they have dominated possession, yet they conceded a lot of goals though.
Last season and the year before, in addition to dominating possession, they were great defensively, despite using zonal marking and playing a high line.
What are you on about, everyone uses zonal marking. The last time someone actually used man to man marking we all laughed, it was the Barcelona vs Bayern 3-0.
I don't know much about zonal marking but if we had a better header of the ball than Lindelof - surely we would be better at defending corners?
Right or wrong?
Right or wrong?
His best moments have actually come off the left barring his goal against Chelsea, so I'm intrigued to see how he does!
Great article, very fascinating to read a proper tactical analysis for once. I’m sure it’ll be promptly ignored by some of the moaners though.
I don’t think so. City concede less corners than anybody else in the league due largely in part to dominating games so therefore they have to zonal mark less often. A team who’s worst feature is defending isn’t evidence it’s the best way to defend corners.
Do we really need to go game by game and analyze tactics? His record against top teams speaks for itself.
Spurs (vs Poch): Everyone thought we'd start with our standard 4-2-3-1. We surprised them by playing Rashford / Martial as wide forwards who ran in behind their CBs and wreaked havoc in the first half with Lingard has a false 9 and Pogba deep pinging balls to forwards. Should've won by more.
Spurs (vs Mou): 2-1. Stuck to his guns and played a standard 4-2-3-1 and trusted his players to do the job, which they did. Sometimes you got to know when to stick and when to twist.
City (2-1 win recently): Setup to Counter and exploited the fact that Rodri is slow AF and their defence is shaky. Man marked their midfielders out with a hardworking 3 and should've scored a few more in the first half.
City (3-1 loss): Pep countered by playing De Bruyne and Silva as forwards and creating a very flexible attack and our man marking was thrown off. We got caught clueless in the first half and the game was over but the changes in second half got us a goal back and it wasn't a slaughter. I'll call it 1-1 with Pep.
Pool (1-1 at home): Only team to draw against Pool this year in the league. Back 3 with a hard working midfield, played on the break and nullified their attack completely. The wing backs dealt with their fullbacks and the CBs dealt with their front-3. Their midfield is pretty ineffective once the wing backs are neutralized. Should've won the game.
Other notable things: Martial as #9 instead of trying to have him compete against Rashford for the wide left role. Brought the best out of both of them.
Anyway all this is pointless, if you're so committed in your opinion that Ole is shit at tactics, it doesn't matter what I say, you won't change your opinion.
Set pieces are different, teams tend to play man to man marking because it's easier to create favorable matchups. The issue with Lindelof or Maguire is that they are stiff and have slow reactions, it doesn't matter if you are playing man or zone if they don't anticipate they are done.
Edit: To be accurate teams tend to play an hybrid marking. Some players are in zone and others are in man to man. Typically you put a player before and after the first post in zone and they have for role to clear the ball if possible, you generally see attackers with good heading abilities doing that or the likes of Fellaini.
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True, its like the equivalent of Liverpool losing, Fabinho, Mane, Firmino & Henderson all for extended periods! They certainly wouldn't be 30 points ahead off us imo!
There was always a plan. The notion the Ole or any other professional manager has no plan is ludicrous. Fans just suffer from the Dunning-Kruger effect. The question is whether or not it works.A potentially positive thread!? No wayyyyyyy
Anybody with a consistent interest in actually watching football will notice that not only has Ole's tactical approach been more progressive than the previous managers he's also attempted at least to implement a press. Unfortunately the squad strength means that both things are hard to implement consistently, especially with young players.
I've never said Ole was the next Pep but I've seen enough 'positive' intent from Ole, that's why I want to give him another summer window. Absolutely nothing to do with blind loyalty to an ex player like most would have you believe about pro-Ole posters.
However, I don't think it's a good idea to use the fullbacks like Liverpool do long term. Liverpool happen to have the best fullbacks in world football at the moment and I think it's easier to find midfielders with the required creativity. IIRC Klopp's Dortmund used to play through their midfield with Sahin and later Gündoğan, so I think it's more due to personnel. Then again the midfield is such in dire straights this may be the best option.
So we resort to fanfiction telling ourselves Ole is actually a genius?
More incoherent blabbering. Well done.
Like Maguire?
.
Maybe if De Gea wasn't such a fanny, we might be better at set pieces and crosses too.
Hmm, I did read it so I don't understand what you mean. What I said was even mentioned in the article.
Well he tries and fails - alot of the time Lindelof is ball watching and Maguire has to react instead.
I don't know if that's to zonal marking or not - but again alot of the times Lindelof seems like he could atleast attempt to disrupt the attack by jumping the same way the opposition disrupt our defence by jumping all at maguire - instead Lindelof is kind of doing his own thing.
And I agree, a keeper who picks up crosses in the box will be like a 3rd defender or in Lindelof's case our 2nd defender.
Is it that Lindelof is playing Zonal and Maguire is man marking? Maguire has to react whilst Lindelof is in his own zone ball watching.
I don't really get it - but something tells me that if that was the case & say if we still had Smalling & Maguire was Zonal marking whilst Smalling was man marking we would be much better off.
He didn't really do that.
Basically, we are a counter attacking team.
If our opponent sits back and defends and the defensive quality is decent, we could play for 2 hours and wouldn't score.
However, if we play a team which is adventurous and wants and to attack, we can absolutely hurt them on the counter. No question about it. We have quality attackers (despite what some people say).
In the case of MCFC, they tried to play their game and we beat them.
The next time we played them, they came up with a tactic which would nullify us and they spanked us. Ole has no tactic which can counter MCFC's tactic. The one tactic (counter attack), didn't work, but he will persist with it, the next time he plays MCFC.
Ole's been in charge for over a year and apart from those first 3 months in charge (which were terrific), I've seen nothing that makes me think that he is capable of managing an EPL team and get the most out of them.
The acid test is this: which EPL team would swap managers with us. Almost certainly: none.
Some key players we beat them with the 1st time were missing, hence us getting overrun in midfield. It's not a 1:1 comparison for those two games.