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2021-22 Performances


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united for life

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Thanks for this Ole.
move on from this. AWB had a good season at palace and a very good start with us. Defensively he was solid. His form dropped just like everyone else and unfortunately, he didn’t develop well (so far at least). His price tag was high, but can’t blame Ole solely for this.
 

elnorte

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move on from this. AWB had a good season at palace and a very good start with us. Defensively he was solid. His form dropped just like everyone else and unfortunately, he didn’t develop well (so far at least). His price tag was high, but can’t blame Ole solely for this.
Move on? Kind of difficult when his stench continues to linger through all his rotten signings.
 

VP89

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move on from this. AWB had a good season at palace and a very good start with us. Defensively he was solid. His form dropped just like everyone else and unfortunately, he didn’t develop well (so far at least). His price tag was high, but can’t blame Ole solely for this.
AWB was a poor deal. He was always offensively timid and wouldn't have suited anything other than a counter attack system, similar to Maguire. Both signings were atrocious evaluations from Ole.
 

Bebestation

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AWB was a poor deal. He was always offensively timid and wouldn't have suited anything other than a counter attack system, similar to Maguire. Both signings were atrocious evaluations from Ole.
well he did set us up to be a counter attack team right until arguably this season.
 

AndyMUFC

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You do wonder how and why we recruited a player that doesn’t have the attributes to play full back for a top side but that’s been us in a nutshell.

He’ll go on to be very solid in the right team, I’m sure, but definitely not the right signing for us.
 

mu4c_20le

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Move on? Kind of difficult when his stench continues to linger through all his rotten signings.
Because you are exhibiting signs of ptsd, and will not be capable of rational discussion until you move on.
 

Bebestation

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And that's why its daft. You dont build a team for a temporary system.
Well this is why I think that he didn’t plan some of this seasons signings- especially the ones that were not counterattacking.
 

Revaulx

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move on from this. AWB had a good season at palace and a very good start with us. Defensively he was solid. His form dropped just like everyone else and unfortunately, he didn’t develop well (so far at least). His price tag was high, but can’t blame Ole solely for this.
If Ole had stuck to what he was good at (keep-it-tight-at-the-back counterattacking football) then AWB was a perfectly good fit. At the time he was signed the powers that be at the club were perfectly happy with that.

However, Ole had said that he wanted us to be playing high-pressing front-footed football. Presumably nobody at the club at the time thought "Hang on, AWB isn't the player for that; maybe £50m for him isn't a good idea".

So yeah, singling out Ole for blame is idiotic.
 

VP89

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Well this is why I think that he didn’t plan some of this seasons signings- especially the ones that were not counterattacking.
He could never sustain any title charge or get to the next level if his approach was to counter attack anyway. It was fine to use in the first season or 18 months but after that he needed to expand on a more dominating system. But he misevaluated big signings to be capable of evolving beyond sitting deep, which was pretty foolish.
 

Greck

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Because you are exhibiting signs of ptsd, and will not be capable of rational discussion until you move on.
As he should, the club itself is suffering the most PTSD from botched rebuilds of dud managers. The lesson to be learned isn't one to be swept under the rug. If Maguire doesn't turn things around that's 3 for 3 and a whole summer wasted. For a team that is still in the rebuilding phase this is a massive cockup. We bought a player for a totally different style and it was one any capable club could have seen coming. Worse is we moved Lukaku and Smalling that summer only to do this.
 

Gurtej

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That’s right because it’s so easy to sell your entire squad and buy 10 new players and mould it into a team that gets top 4 despite hardly knowing each other
It’s not easy but I am sure the new players can’t be worse than the lot I mentioned!!
 

golden_blunder

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It’s not easy but I am sure the new players can’t be worse than the lot I mentioned!!
It’s an unrealistic expectation which would turn to negativity if they didn’t make the said unrealistic expectation
 

Roane

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Not sure if I remember accurately but AWB won player of the season before we signed him didn't he?

Someone more knowledgeable can tell me if his stats etc were pretty good defensively and going forward.

He started well with us too. I personally think he was a good signing based on what he was doing but hasn't progressed and to me that is on the club/manager/coaches. There has been no development of players and I include likes of Rashy in this.

What gets me is we started to sign expensive prospects, and et al. But there was no progression for any player.
 

Blood Mage

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Both him and Maguire were good signings for what Ole wanted to do at first (play shithouse, counter-attacking football) but when the expectations got higher and he was pressured into developing a more front-foot, dominating style of play they became useless.
 

arthurka

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Yeah there is.

But you said he was also being called world class. With nothing inbetween. Clearly not the case.

I don't think he's rubbish but I understand why some do. He's a top level pro who can't really pass. I don't think I've seen him pass further than 20 yards. So he doesn't help himself even with his other attribtues in mind.
Like I said on the CAF it's a bit world class or shit, it does not only apply to him. Apparently he is shit and there seems to be little between.
 

elnorte

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Because you are exhibiting signs of ptsd, and will not be capable of rational discussion until you move on.
Please take responsibility for your own mindless Evangelical-like defence of him when he was still in charge.

Wishful thinking on my part I know given your limitless level of arrogance.
 

criticalanalysis

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If ETH is the coach we think he is, AWB has every chance of not only staking his claim as the first choice RB but also becoming a very functional cog. As is 90% of the squad tbh.

If he can become the best version of himself (with ETH's coaching and tactical setup), he has lots of quality which can be very useful for us.

Is his base skillset ideal for what we imagine we would need? No but we're not in an ideal position to upgrade every area of the pitch.
 

sullydnl

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If ETH is the coach we think he is, AWB has every chance of not only staking his claim as the first choice RB but also becoming a very functional cog. As is 90% of the squad tbh.

If he can become the best version of himself (with ETH's coaching and tactical setup), he has lots of quality which can be very useful for us.

Is his base skillset ideal for what we imagine we would need? No but we're not in an ideal position to upgrade every area of the pitch.
If ETH is the coach I think he is then AWB will leave the club relatively quickly.

He isn't a miracle worker. Some players just don't fit a manager's style of play and no amount of coaching or adapting will change that. And of all our players AWB is one of the most obviously ill-suited to ETH's style of play. There's no reason for ETH to try and make the unworkable work.
 

caid

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If ETH is the coach I think he is then AWB will leave the club relatively quickly.

He isn't a miracle worker. Some players just don't fit a manager's style of play and no amount of coaching or adapting will change that. And of all our players AWB is one of the most obviously ill-suited to ETH's style of play. There's no reason for ETH to try and make the unworkable work.
Was going to say more or less the same
 

CloneMC16

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I had to make sure I didn't click the wrong browser tab. Wan Bissaka right? He can do no such thing except the odd occasion where a wildly loose touch catches the defender off guard (and let's be honest himself as well). AWB doesn't even look comfortable carrying the ball when unmarked, he can't beat anyone. Pretty sure we would have collectively noticed if our once starting fullback could dribble. AWB's family members don't even believe this.

edit I admire the optimism though. We should def put that in the brochure when we entertain prospective buyers.




His ball carrying is the most underrated part of his game. He is well capable of it. He is better than the majority of our fans say. Not being an aesthetically pleasing dribbler doesn't mean he can't do it. He is effective at it when playing well. I do think that we can do better, but this fanbase massively over exaggerates their negative opinion of him.
 

criticalanalysis

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If ETH is the coach I think he is then AWB will leave the club relatively quickly.

He isn't a miracle worker. Some players just don't fit a manager's style of play and no amount of coaching or adapting will change that. And of all our players AWB is one of the most obviously ill-suited to ETH's style of play. There's no reason for ETH to try and make the unworkable work.
You could be very right and I wouldn't disagree but unless we are bringing in a new player then between Dalot, AWB and a youth player, the choice, options and expectations to how ETH wants his right back to play is limited. If ETH is willing to give every player a chance, which he will kind of have to as we won't be ripping up the squad and if AWB finds a second wind/new motivation/new found confidence, he's got lots of good attributes. Those are two big ifs yet it pretty much applies to most of the squad. The fact is, ETH will have to make the best of what he has got as much as he will want to implement his own style carte blanche.

AWB is athletic, can defend one-on-one, has got recovery pace, can overlap, provide width and has shown he can retain and carry the ball when given space (post above with supplementary clips). He may be an option for a more inverted defensive role too if we are creating more on the left (with hopefully a Shaw/Rashford resurgence?!). It's like Guardiola going from Avles/Lahm/Kimmich to Walker. Obviously I'm not comparing him to those but stylistically you've got to be pragmatic and utilise players even if they have fundamental flaws.

I can easily see ETH 'liking' Dalot, who has been very inconsistent but shown he's a very willing passer of the ball (many times too eager to create) and go forward with aplomb but he's really raw and inexperienced.

Like I said, not ideal and very bleak when you look at it from a position of (justified) pessimism; perhaps it's blind hope but let's come back and visit this when the new season starts as it will be interesting.
 
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Adnan

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Below is a clip from ex Palace player John Solako who says that he worked with AWB when the player was 17/18 years old, and they were close to releasing him from the club because his attitude wasn't great and he was failing as a right winger. He was then tried as a right back and performed well against Wilfried Zaha defensively and things started to look good for the player in a new role.

But Solako goes on to say that he was surprised that United would sign a player that had only played 42 games and lacked the real quality and intelligence going forward in a attacking sense.

I've read quite a few interviews from some of our scouts over the years, and the last one I read, the scout said that he only recommends players to the club after watching the player for at least 4 seasons. Hannibal Mejbri for example was signed after our French scout had been watching him since he was 12. The Wan Bissaka signing after only 42 games goes against what I'm hearing from the scouts via interviews.

 
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edcunited1878

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People focusing on AWB and McTominay's ability to carry the ball are misguided. A ball travels faster and can break lines better than the majority of players who can carry the ball forward. Football is a pass and move game with the added need of spatial awareness and space manipulation. That requires a certain level of temperament and situational awareness that he hasn't shown as a starting fullback.

At the end of the day, majority of people gave AWB the benefit of the doubt to improve, but his flaws are so glaring and are a hindrance to the team, especially when he's had to share a right side with McTominay. That's way too much deficiency.

The sooner he leaves the better. United are on the move and he's been left behind. It's EtH time and he's not worthy of it, fine.
 

hobbers

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Love montages of cherry picked touches from players that cut to the next one before you see where the ball ends up. Completely pointless.
 

pratyush_utd

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His ball carrying is the most underrated part of his game. He is well capable of it. He is better than the majority of our fans say. Not being an aesthetically pleasing dribbler doesn't mean he can't do it. He is effective at it when playing well. I do think that we can do better, but this fanbase massively over exaggerates their negative opinion of him.
Hopefully we can add these 5 seconds video to his CV and drive the price up.
 

Dante

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If ETH is the coach we think he is, AWB has every chance of not only staking his claim as the first choice RB but also becoming a very functional cog. As is 90% of the squad tbh.

If he can become the best version of himself (with ETH's coaching and tactical setup), he has lots of quality which can be very useful for us.

Is his base skillset ideal for what we imagine we would need? No but we're not in an ideal position to upgrade every area of the pitch.
Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if this happens.

AWB is still the best 1v1 defender in the league. He's still an excellent ball carrier. He still has a decent cross after the improvements he made his second season here.

What he lacks is play-making ability. And I don't think he'll ever have it. So we can instantly discount any chance of him become the next Lahm or Cancelo.

But if you slot him into an organised team where he has a set of specific jobs that focus on the world class qualities, he still has a chance.

The issue at United is that we've been carrying too many basic passers all at the same time. A top team can maybe get away with one out of AWB, McTominay and Fred. But definitely not all three at once.

AWB has a lot going for him, so it's not out of the realms of possibility that he'll be the one out of them who makes the cut for EtH. Stick him behind a creative RW and coach some patterns of play for transitioning up the right flank, and he should be able to adapt. If you take the thought out of his passing and make it instinctive, you won't even need to rely on him to be a play-maker.
 

darioterios

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Below is a clip from ex Palace player John Solako who says that he worked with AWB when the player was 17/18 years old, and they were close to releasing him from the club because his attitude wasn't great and he was failing as a right winger. He was then tried as a right back and performed well against Wilfried Zaha defensively and things started to look good for the player in a new role.

But Solako goes on to say that he was surprised that United would sign a player that had only played 42 games and lacked the real quality and intelligence going forward in a attacking sense.

I've read quite a few interviews from some of our scouts over the years, and the last one I read, the scout said that he only recommends players to the club after watching the player for at least 4 seasons. Hannibal Mejbri for example was signed after our French scout had been watching him since he was 12. The Wan Bissaka signing after only 42 games goes against what I'm hearing from the scouts via interviews.

A report from June 28, 2019. Click on the full article to see detailed stats and gifs to illustrate the analysis.
https://statsbomb.com/articles/soccer/how-much-is-aaron-wan-bissaka-worth/

One has to wonder the scouting and the coaching given all strengths and concerns were laid out in freely circulated articles even before he was signed.
Manchester United’s end goal as a club is to get back to being a very good, maybe evengreat team, and envisioning the next good United side would involve concocting a squad that will be able to dictate play in possession with regularity. Doing so would involve have minimal weak links during ball progression. This is especially true with fullbacks given that they have a major part to play in creating chances as auxiliary wingers.

That’s the issue that surrounds Wan-Bissaka. Very few are questioning whether his defensive capabilities will translate at a bigger club, because he’s shown enough this season to suggest that’s a rather safe bet. Rather, will he be able to exist as a functional cog in the wheel offensively? Furthermore, just how good is Wan-Bissaka currently offensively? Is there enough upside that he could grow into a net positive as a play-driver? These are some of the questions to ask when evaluating Wan-Bissaka as a talent, and whether it’s a smart idea for United to allocate major resources (not just the transfer fee but wages as well) towards him. Certainly, that mystery on Wan-Bissaka’s offensive ceiling is in part due to playing on a decent but unspectacular attacking side in Crystal Palace last season. They ranked 12th in expected goals from open play and 8th in shots. If he had played on a more expansive attack, perhaps we would’ve had more of an idea on his upside as a play-driver.

If one was to concoct an argument in favor of Wan-Bissaka’s offensive ceiling, a major component would be his dribbling abilities and the luxuries it affords him that not a lot of fullbacks possess. As part of the responsibilities that modern day fullbacks have, being able to beat their marker off the dribble in the middle and final third has become much more of a necessity. Wan-Bissaka certainly has that in his skill-set, his 2.01 dribbles per 90 is nearly three times the league average rate for fullbacks in the Premier League, and his dribbling map below shows a very healthy amount of dribbles into more advanced areas along with the actions that followed.

The ease with which Wan-Bissaka can get himself out of tight situations on the flanks is quite remarkable. He could use his dribbling as an escape valve to merely continue recycling possession to a nearby teammate, or cover ground once he gains separation from his marker and progress play. As the ball is slowly moving towards his vicinity, he’s great at being able to quickly shift the ball from one foot and making his marker miss. He’s also able to use misdirection through body feints and quick changes of direction when he’s luring his opponent into a false sense of security before hitting the afterburners. He’s also quite good at general ball carrying duties.
While I believe that there’s a functional level to his passing, there are moments where Wan-Bissaka shows discomfort on-ball when trying to make decisions, especially when attempting to make dangerous passes as he doesn’t quite have the touch to connect on them. There are also times when he opts for conservatism over something grander. He can look indecisive and give opponents an opportunity to seize on him telegraphing his passes and create turnovers in play. His abilities as a crosser and chance creator to this point are nothing much to write home about, though how much of it is due to system constraints and surrounding talent is up for debate. Wan-Bissaka’s passing to this point is somewhere between average to below-average.
Manchester United potentially spending up to £50 million on Wan-Bissaka represents a bet on him eventually becoming one of the better fullbacks in the world two to three years from now. For that to occur, his offensive value will have to get to a high enough level through ironing out some of the kinks. Given how good he projects to be defensively over the next few years, it might be that he merely needs to be a slight net-positive offensively rather than an no-doubt stud in attack. It’s not impossible to imagine that being the case for Wan-Bissaka: his dribbling abilities are outstanding and that alone brings value. His passing isn’t a lost cause, though it’s not a strength yet. The hope is that his dribbling abilities continue to translate and create passing opportunities for him that it wouldn’t exist for others, and with more reps in advanced areas as well as playing with talented teammates at United, he becomes a better offensive player. That version of Wan-Bissaka would be more than worth the high price tag that United will reportedly paid for his services. The more pessimistic angle would be that Wan-Bissaka’s passing never appreciably develops from its current state, and as a result, his game doesn’t quite scale up to the highest level of competition and makes him less of an asset.
 

Adisa

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If ETH is the coach we think he is, AWB has every chance of not only staking his claim as the first choice RB but also becoming a very functional cog. As is 90% of the squad tbh.

If he can become the best version of himself (with ETH's coaching and tactical setup), he has lots of quality which can be very useful for us.

Is his base skillset ideal for what we imagine we would need? No but we're not in an ideal position to upgrade every area of the pitch.
Ridiculous take. I wonder why Klopp or Pep bothered overhauling their squads.
 

RedBanker

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Ridiculous take. I wonder why Klopp or Pep bothered overhauling their squads.
Exactly. The expectations are that ETH has to turn the turd procured by the previous guy into gold. Only then he will be deemed a proper manager.
 

Adisa

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Below is a clip from ex Palace player John Solako who says that he worked with AWB when the player was 17/18 years old, and they were close to releasing him from the club because his attitude wasn't great and he was failing as a right winger. He was then tried as a right back and performed well against Wilfried Zaha defensively and things started to look good for the player in a new role.

But Solako goes on to say that he was surprised that United would sign a player that had only played 42 games and lacked the real quality and intelligence going forward in a attacking sense.

I've read quite a few interviews from some of our scouts over the years, and the last one I read, the scout said that he only recommends players to the club after watching the player for at least 4 seasons. Hannibal Mejbri for example was signed after our French scout had been watching him since he was 12. The Wan Bissaka signing after only 42 games goes against what I'm hearing from the scouts via interviews.

Lends credence to what he wrote in the players tribune. He was struggling when they decided to convert him to RB. He and his people were shocked with her interest and were not sure he was ready.
The whole episode is evidence of bad scouting. But the club wanted to support Ole.
 

UncleBob

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If ETH is the coach we think he is, AWB has every chance of not only staking his claim as the first choice RB but also becoming a very functional cog. As is 90% of the squad tbh.

If he can become the best version of himself (with ETH's coaching and tactical setup), he has lots of quality which can be very useful for us.

Is his base skillset ideal for what we imagine we would need? No but we're not in an ideal position to upgrade every area of the pitch.
:lol:
 

jesperjaap

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Not sure if I remember accurately but AWB won player of the season before we signed him didn't he?

Someone more knowledgeable can tell me if his stats etc were pretty good defensively and going forward.

He started well with us too. I personally think he was a good signing based on what he was doing but hasn't progressed and to me that is on the club/manager/coaches. There has been no development of players and I include likes of Rashy in this.

What gets me is we started to sign expensive prospects, and et al. But there was no progression for any player.
It was a short period of time but he looked a brilliant prospect to me at Palace and at a period when so many English talents were comign through looked to be one of the best.

I thought he did ok in the first season, second season I think he actually looked to be improving, going forward he looked to release the ball quicker and play more simply to keep play moving....This season though he did regress, not doing that, his positioning has not improved at all and Rangnick seemed to not like him very quickly so been a lack of game time, personally still find it razy Dalot has been picked ahead of him.

Although the coaching and structure here has been really lacking, as a whole I think we need to alsoget away from an excuse culture with many players that they ave failed due to this. The players responsibility is to have the right attitude and improve themselves and many here have really failed to homour the shirt in that respect. I dont really see Bissaka as one of them though
 

jesperjaap

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If ETH is the coach we think he is, AWB has every chance of not only staking his claim as the first choice RB but also becoming a very functional cog. As is 90% of the squad tbh.

If he can become the best version of himself (with ETH's coaching and tactical setup), he has lots of quality which can be very useful for us.

Is his base skillset ideal for what we imagine we would need? No but we're not in an ideal position to upgrade every area of the pitch.
I do think we are putting too much faith in a new manager improving many of this squad.

A lot of our pplayers best versions of themselves are good players.....yet a lot of them at there best are still severely lacking in certain areas of there games.

There are quite a few have been here a long time when we have had Van Gaal who was a godo coach and tactiaian, Mourinho though outdated was and Rangnick was lauded tactically. And there has been a "with better coaching and management so and so can be a big player"......yet many have failed time and time again to progress. Yes there is a proportion of blame to the coaching, but I think we have reached the point with many where we simply have to be reaching the conclusion the players atttitude or ability all round is not good enough to wear the shirt and they have failed here.

I dont actually include Bissaka in that list, there are a few players I think can be improved with a quality new manager, Bissaka is kind of in between the two groups, but I think we are expecting too much in ETH with a lot of these players and keeping them just continues. The simple truth is many dont seem to have the intelligence and have weaknesses that hold them back from playing in a techcnical tactical system and no manager is going to change that
 

golden_blunder

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His ball carrying is the most underrated part of his game. He is well capable of it. He is better than the majority of our fans say. Not being an aesthetically pleasing dribbler doesn't mean he can't do it. He is effective at it when playing well. I do think that we can do better, but this fanbase massively over exaggerates their negative opinion of him.
Thank you. It’s an argument I’ve had on here numerous times till I got bored. Fans say “he can’t control a ball”. I’ve always argued that he can. The ball playing stuff is a myth.what his problems are:
  • Positioning
  • Jogging back
  • Heading
  • Decision making
  • confidence destroyed

positioning could absolutely be corrected with good coaches. As could jogging back.
Heading could surely be improved a little through coaching.

decision making is a harder one. This would not only need coaching off pitch but a leader on the pitch too giving instant feedback and advice.

confidence Is the biggest issue for me. It’s been utterly eroded and i doubt at this point our fanbase will help him get it back. In fact the opposite

best thing for him would be to leave and find a less toxic environment, rebuild his confidence and work on those other weaknesses
 

Fooza

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You can Bebe look so good by getting snippets and putting it on twitter

It's quite simple really, he isn't good enough when compared to the full backs the top teams in the premier league has.

That is the standard
 

Kag

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No, as has been pointed out dozens and dozens of times, he's good at last ditch tackles but he's a rubbish defender.
But Dalot is factually worse. Dalot is genuinely one of the worst defenders to ever play for the club.

I’ll caveat that by saying Wan-Bissaka isn’t good enough either, although I shouldn’t have to.
 
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