Alexei Navalny | Has died in prison, according to the Russian prison service
- Thread starter WPMUFC
- Start date
Churchill was not ever a genocidal racist and the Bengal famine being deliberate is a myth and canard with little historical evidence.
Whatever, I'm not here to discuss the Bengal famine. He was undeniably a racist though, and that was my point. If Navanly is one too, then okay, but under the circumstances it doesn't rate as highly as "jailed (now killed) rival to Putin".
Damn troublemakers
That's alright, I've already seen your historical illiteracy and inability to differentiate norms of previous periods from the present in a load of threads. You must hate absolutely everyone born before 1970!
You could turn it around: do racist statements more than a decade ago, that he has later apologized for, disqualify his legacy of bravely fighting against a dangerous dictatorship?
How is Kasparov able to be so outspoken without being suicided?
Yeah, comparing 1.2 billion person to cockroaches is not a problem at all. One good deed will not ratify who he is.
Stays in the US
Oh! Was under the impression he was in Russia!
Kinda makes you wonder in a way. How is it that Russia can off notable people in the UK and it tends to steer away from doing it in the US when in and of itself it shouldn't be any more difficult to do.
Navalny was far from some ideal rival and after his early stances never would be someone i would vote for within solid, consolidated democratic conditions, but he did seem to have genuinely moved (and stayed) in a direction away from that early bigoted far-right populism, one that meant he was worth supporting within the material reality of Putin's dictatorship.
More that they are scared of the US, but not the U.K. I’d imagine.
Yeah, Was an hyperbole. Is difficult to find someone worse than Putin. Still, we was a better alternative to Putin, but better alternative had a long bracket before reaching being good
No, It was not just a statement, it was an ideology he believed in. Now I must say I do not know how much remorse he has shown or what he apologised for. But I wouldn't bet on him being transformed into an angel.
This quote from House of Cards is how I feel about Putin as a human being.
Feck Putin, feck Trump, feck Xi, and feck all of their respective cults.
Exactly, an unapologetic one as that, there was a WP article that mentioned he said he would deport all non-white Russians fromCentral Asia and the Caucasus.
But, since he is opposed to Putin, everyone in the West will slide that under the rug and revere him as a hero.
Now the Russian machine will do what they do best and make Russians forget him, make the world believe he was "just as bad", the usual crowd will lap it up. It's not their first time.
He did compare immigrants and muslims to flies and cockroaches that need to be exterminated.
So yeah. Putins an Ahole but this guy wasn't exactly Mother Teresa.
It's also worth noting the context of his early forays into politics. It was during the insurgency of the Second Chechen War and there were numerous Chechen terrorist attacks throughout Russia (Beslan, Moscow theater, etc.). While it doesn't excuse or justify it, it's hardly surprising that radical, anti-government protestors/politicians would embrace xenophobia and Islamophobia at the time. His evolution as a person was evident over the past decade, and he became much more centrist. Having watched interviews with him and read some of the things he'd done, the shifts seem to be a genuine change, but it's also likely he understood that his extreme views would alienate international support.
I think this article by Masha Gessen is a good overview of his political evolution. The person who persuaded Navalny to go to the Russian marches talked about inviting him to the marches as part of an attempt to co-opt and persuade nationalists to join causes with other anti-government groups. She also mentioned that Navalny was the least-educated and sophisticated of the anti-government activists but he was always working to educate himself.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/the-evolution-of-alexey-navalnys-nationalism
I'm not sure about his later views on the subject but the fact that he made such comments as the video posted above 2 posts before yours would be enough to end his political career in any Western democracy. I'm not justifying what happened to him but if the equivalent of him was running in UK or US politics he wouldn't be getting any love at all.
Yeah, he had a "fling" in muslim hate and recorded an ad on how to kill muslims. But come on, get over it, he evolved into an angel few years later, he attended western values rehab centers, it's all good you know.
I'm sorry but though I by no means justify any of these comments some people in here keep focusing on - it detracts from the importance of him in a much larger political arena. Its not much different to than calling some Ukranians Nazis as if that somehow justifies whatever Russia is doing. It would be nice if the world was that black and white - but it isn't. Yes people can have bad sides to them, but the world is very complex place. 99% of people in this world have shown extreme bias towards other groups at some point in their lives. Many probably still do. As @Sir Matt pointed out, times and conditions change. There are too many examples of about faces around. The important thing is that some people have them, and others forever stay evil bastards, and even double down on it (I.e. Putin). And then there are those who learn from it and try to bring about positive change.
Last edited:
Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, all made on valid objective points. For example for some Tony Blair is a Hero, for others he is a war criminal, it depends who are you asking.
You can not ask a group of people to stop stressing their views on him just to keep the flow in this thread in your favorable direction.
Another misconception is that she was squeaky clean; massively problematic herself.
Since you’re clearly referring to my post I have to respond that I don’t consider him an angel and I wouldn’t support him in free elections with any decent candidates. Precisely because of his past associations with the far right. He clearly did change his rhetoric significantly but, as I’ve said, with a populist you’re never sure when he’s saying the truth and when he’s trying to get an easy vote.
The latter part of his life and his selfless sacrifice makes him a hero in my eyes though. A very flawed hero but a hero nonetheless and the only person I saw as being capable to somehow overthrow Putin before natural causes. Alas, it didn’t happen.
He is literally an American now...
Sacks is a Musk fanboy.
Mother Teresa is a very poor comparison for what you're trying to say there
I respect your opinion, but i respectfully disagree with it.
Do you mean before he went back to Russia to go to prison, or even after that? My impression is that he had became quite irrelevant as a political actor, but I might not know what I'm talking about.
I can't say that there was any realistic scenario of him overthrowing Putin from inside the prison but he was the only figure popular enough to unite the people. Call it wishful thinking.
@harms expecting anything to happen after this or is it going to go the way of Nemtsov?
Not really. I mean, they've detained more than 200 people last night for laying down flowers at random memorials, there's no real room for escalation, everyone's rightly scared. And those who could've potentially organized something are either imprisoned or abroad (or killed — not that there were many but more than 0 is more than enough).