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Alexis Mac Allister | Liverpool watch

giorno

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This is a classic hindsight post. I’ll give you VVD but Mané and Robertson where not among the best in the league, Robertson wasn’t even in the league he was in the Championship before he joined Liverpool.
Hull had just been relegated and anybody paying attention knew he was great. Pretty much any smart analyst had him as one of the very best in the league at his role and his signing for Liverpool was generally considered a steal. Mané wasn't widely regarded as among the best in the league? Really?!?!

And look at the Mané thread on the Caf before he joined Liverpool as he was rumored with a move to United as well and most were completely underwhelmed.
Because caftards know football, right :lol:

We're fans. A few of us actually are knowledgeable about this sport but for the vast majority, our knowledge stops at "ball is round"
 

el_loco_bielsa

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None of it was black magic recruitment.

Every single one of the players signed measured well according to the numbers which is why they were signed.

There are plenty of fan opinions on who may fail and who may succeed eg the car crash which were the beginnings of the mane and salah threads after they were signed, but that’s what they are - pointless fan waffle.

All edwards, graham and co did was to ignore all the extraneous noise and sign a bunch of players on the basis of hard metrics rather than relying on some subjective ‘eye-test’.

Most of them worked out as the metrics said they would, some didn’t because they couldn’t translate the metrics to a new league because what you can’t measure for is injuries and mental strength (eg keita).
 

E-mal

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Wonder if this guy was a better signing than mount?
Most of us on this forum said we should be signing him instead but people that tend to know football better than us said if Mount was Spanish we won’t be towing that line. It is the same folks that will keep ETH here despite all evidence pointing to lack of progress. It was obvious from the onset that he fitted the profile of what we needed, an Eriksen with legs. Hopefully Mount gets over his injuries and proof useful to us, at least get Bruno off that midfield
 

jadajos

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Hull had just been relegated and anybody paying attention knew he was great. Pretty much any smart analyst had him as one of the very best in the league at his role and his signing for Liverpool was generally considered a steal.
Bottom line is, the market makes the value. You’re not getting Robertson for 8m if all the top teams are bidding for him because he’s „among the very best in the league“ already and on the top of the list of any scout. Hull City and the player agent won’t sit there and say oh dozens of scouts and DOFs call us about Andy and are willing to outbid one another, but hey we’ll just give him away for cheap and a modest salary to Liverpool.

Yes, the Caf gets plenty players wrong as do you and me, surely. And even top scouts get it wrong. Which is exactly why it’s so baffling that people always judge transfers with so much conviction when they have the benefit of hindsight.
 

duffer

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None of it was black magic recruitment.

Every single one of the players signed measured well according to the numbers which is why they were signed.
How do you think Caicedo would've done there if Liverpool's bid had been successful?

Obviously it's easy to called it a bullet dodged now but they did want him for 100 odd million.
 

el_loco_bielsa

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How do you think Caicedo would've done there if Liverpool's bid had been successful?

Obviously it's easy to called it a bullet dodged now but they did want him for 100 odd million.
You can always measure performance which translates as basic footballing ability, and he measures very well for that at least prior to this season.

The subjective part of it is the stuff you can’t measure - injuries, mental fortitude, tactical adaptability, your fee as a player which is used as a stick to beat you with.

I still think with the right setup he has the ability to be as good a player as Rice.

The problem is he’s vastly overpriced, underperforming, low on confidence, in an unstable environment, surrounded by tactical and personnel chaos, and it’s also difficult to decide whether he’s genuinely tactically adaptable as I’m not sure even poch knows what he’s tactically striving for.
 

giorno

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Bottom line is, the market makes the value. You’re not getting Robertson for 8m if all the top teams are bidding for him because he’s „among the very best in the league“ already and on the top of the list of any scout. Hull City and the player agent won’t sit there and say oh dozens of scouts and DOFs call us about Andy and are willing to outbid one another, but hey we’ll just give him away for cheap and a modest salary to Liverpool.
Of course. Big clubs can feck up too

Yes, the Caf gets plenty players wrong as do you and me, surely. And even top scouts get it wrong. Which is exactly why it’s so baffling that people always judge transfers with so much conviction when they have the benefit of hindsight.
I mean sure, but if you sign one of the best left forwards in the league and he proves to be one of the best left forwards in the league, that's not shrewd scouting, you didn't pick up a player whose level was a pleasant surprise
 

Nicoteiro

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The difference between Alexis and Bruno is absolutely night and day. He’s been their best player by some distance. I don’t understand why they play him so deep and let all the others screw the final balls or shots.

Endo ans Szobo have been terrible. Salah and Darwin have been shite. There’s no chance they win the league. They’re the 3rd best team and that’s it.
 

Fobal

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The difference between Alexis and Bruno is absolutely night and day. He’s been their best player by some distance. I don’t understand why they play him so deep and let all the others screw the final balls or shots.

Endo ans Szobo have been terrible. Salah and Darwin have been shite. There’s no chance they win the league. They’re the 3rd best team and that’s it.
Yeap it was odd that Klopp kept him too deep, but at the same that provided a lot of clean balls upfront. I dunno if terrible (in terms of at least trying and creating chances) is the word, but clearly upfront the mentioned weren't as sharp as they should have been in order to grab this title.

PD: also the kid made a major fvck up in Bruno's goal, he wasn't even pressed, that gave unnecessary life to United at that point.
 
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FootballHQ

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Liverpool signing him for 35m one of the steals of the season. I think he only had one year left on his deal at Brighton but considering their tax that's an incredible signing as he's been one of the best premier league players in 2024 in any position.
 

gajender

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Liverpool signing him for 35m one of the steals of the season. I think he only had one year left on his deal at Brighton but considering their tax that's an incredible signing as he's been one of the best premier league players in 2024 in any position.
Anybody could have signed him for that fee , his contract was actually expiring in 2023 he insisted upon a release clause as condition for renewal before going to world Cup smart fella .
 

Crimson King

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I'm finding this guy terribly overrated of late.
He is. A good player by all accounts, but the narrative around him at the moment is ridiculous. He's just one of those tidy, grafting midfielders that fits really well into a Klopp midfield. Has a worldie strike in him every now and then, but I think a majority of his goals at Brighton were penalties.

He's probably better/more reliable than anything United have right now, but he'd be on the bench at City and Arsenal.
 

FootballHQ

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He is. A good player by all accounts, but the narrative around him at the moment is ridiculous. He's just one of those tidy, grafting midfielders that fits really well into a Klopp midfield. Has a worldie strike in him every now and then, but I think a majority of his goals at Brighton were penalties.

He's probably better/more reliable than anything United have right now, but he'd be on the bench at City and Arsenal.
He starts at Arsenal ahead of Jorginho very easily who has been starting most games in the last two months.
 

Crimson King

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He starts at Arsenal ahead of Jorginho very easily who has been starting most games in the last two months.
Very different roles though, aren't they? Jorginho allows Rice to play more on the front foot, rather than collect the ball off of defenders. Similar to how Endo means MacAllister pushes up much higher, where he's more effective as an 8/10.

I'm not an Arsenal fan so can't say how they'd prefer it, but I'm not sure they'd swap given their superior GD at the moment. Seems to be working fine for them in their set up.
 

Halftrack

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Mané wasn't widely regarded as among the best in the league? Really?!?!
To be fair, we were linked to him a year earlier, and people on here were losing their shit over it. Missing out on renowned superstar Pedro only to be linked to a mediocre Southampton player caused a lot of anger.
 

giorno

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To be fair, we were linked to him a year earlier, and people on here were losing their shit over it. Missing out on renowned superstar Pedro only to be linked to a mediocre Southampton player caused a lot of anger.
To be fair, the average caftard is vaguely aware that the ball is round
 

Fobal

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He is. A good player by all accounts, but the narrative around him at the moment is ridiculous. He's just one of those tidy, grafting midfielders that fits really well into a Klopp midfield. Has a worldie strike in him every now and then, but I think a majority of his goals at Brighton were penalties.

He's probably better/more reliable than anything United have right now, but he'd be on the bench at City and Arsenal.
The thing it's there is also another narrative like the one you've posted: the mere tidy fella...yet actually at this time (and even before), it has been the other way around.
He has been excellent this season on pair and above anyone in "his roles" (at times he is playing three on the same game). On a very consistent way and somehow he was flying way too under the radar.
The whole Potter, Caicedo, De Zerbi, the system of the NT, Enzo, Messi, Endo, Klopp, EVERYONE is in some sort of task of making just a "tidy player" look better has just become a bit of a meme.

Not in the sense of not being true that all those factors helped him, like it happens with any other player, but rarely the other side of the coin it's taken in account: how great he is for his mates and teams.
He certainly isn't build as a tank, nor has great pace, that would always be held against him, yet this aspects lacking doesn't make him mere good, mere tidy or he doesn't have other assets that makes him a trully great player.

I do think that Pep specially would use him quite a lot. I see him playing more as a Gundo or replacing Rodri when need it.
Of course the two examples are kind of silly being Rodri the angular piece of Pep's team with years in there and Rice the new boy in town playing great with that sum over his head. Yet he can play both roles and he can be with both of them at the same time in the pitch easily.

In any case I don't get why in such an excellent season he is having, somehow we should diminsh his talent or contribution because he plays in a certain system or under certain coach like if any other player in his role/s mentioned aren't in similar ecosystems, nor needing similar things, it's a bit silly at this point.
He might crumble without Klopp next season? of course, no doubt, like any player can crumble with a coach that doesn't get him, or a team that plays badly as a whole, but so far everything he did in his carreer has been just getting better season after season, with multiple coaches, mates, systems, etc.
What I mean is that if anything the "narrative" since years and more now has been way more ridiculous on not giving him proper credit than the other way around.

PD: Bruno Guimaraes is another player under the radar. He is more of a unit, he really likes to dribble and create ocasions when going forward, while being a bulldog defending. Yet on the other side of the coin, he gets easily frustrated, sometimes he can become chaotic, loose a bit his temper and order, but he deserves a bigger club to mature and grow in there.
And egarding defenders, Van der Ven and Romero in Spurs also (even both at the same time as a pair) could be excellent in a more winner side than the Spurs.
 
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