All change of ownership and Red Knights related posts here please

[theimperialinn]

As I showed earlier the increase in turnover represents a 10% pa growth which is modest to say the least for any business. Increasing operating costs nullify the growth in turnover. Many here assume the Glazers will be able to pay off their debts and are basing that largely on increased revenue expectations as well as using cash in the bank to reduce their most expensive debt. So far they have barely managed to service their debt which has increased from 559m in 2005 to the present 716m. They have had to re-fiance twice just to keep the whole thing afloat. Does anyone know what the costs were of that re-financing ?

I think most businesses would be chuffed to bits with a 10% year on year increase in turnover. Only direct costs grow in line with it not operating costs as a whole. As United do not manufacture anything they are less open and should reap the benefits.

Fair enough and I didn't accuse you of that.

But please work out how much exactly the China market is growing and how that impacts on club revenues. Thanks.

No matter how big China is growing it doesn't translate into material revenue for the club, it pumps up things like the TV deal and the odd sponsorship here and there.

 

[radd]

no... if you were clever enough to understand the original post you would understand what i was getting at...

I would explain it to you... but i dont speak idiot

hth...

now jog on

Yes that exaplains it,. Idiot speaks you.

Mate, for a good few years of my life, I've been exploring the question of agnosticism v. atheism (cue Nietzche, Hegel and Sartre - anyone else you wanna add - er, Heidegger? Maybe Kant? Maybe Hobbes? Maybe Descartes?)

Now obviously I'm one of the morons who didn't get your 'clever ploy' so obviously you're the Dreyfus (no, not that Dreyfus, my friend!) to my... well never mind...

I think so far we've establsihed that you're a genius...and that I'm maybe drunk - so carry on!

I'm sure you even have a point related to the RK (is that the thread? I maybe forgetting) or even to athetists and agnostics - that;s worth reading. But then again I'm well smasshed and you;re entirely sober. I'm sure in broad daylighjt you'll come off looking like a Heeeeeeeeeeeero. Well played.

 

[theimperialinn]

Saw this in The Times....

The Red Knights intend to raise about £500m through between 50 and 60 so-called “super-investors” that would put in about £10m each. A further £250m would be raised from fans and the recent £500m bond is likely to be left in place.

Is it true?

That seems the most logical course of action to me.

They could then start buying the bonds back over time.

The Ironic thing being annual interest payments won't actually decrease but the club would be rid of the PIKs.

 

[radd]

I think most businesses would be chuffed to bits with a 10% year on year increase in turnover. Only direct costs grow in line with it not operating costs as a whole. As United do not manufacture anything they are less open and should reap the benefits.



No matter how big China is growing it doesn't translate into material revenue for the club, it pumps up things like the TV deal and the odd sponsorship here and there.

Yes Impy that was the point I was making, no matter how drunk I am. Thank feck for at least one sensible poster.

 

[EZee]

Yes that exaplains it,. Idiot speaks you.

Mate, for a good few years of my life, I've been exploring the question of agnosticism v. atheism (cue Nietzche, Hegel and Sartre - anyone else you wanna add - er, Heidegger? Maybe Kant? Maybe Hobbes? Maybe Descartes?)

Now obviously I'm one of the morons who didn't get your 'clever ploy' so obviously you're the Dreyfus (no, not that Dreyfus, my friend!) to my... well never mind...

I think so far we've establsihed that you're a genius...and that I'm maybe drunk - so carry on!

I'm sure you even have a point related to the RK (is that the thread? I maybe forgetting) or even to athetists and agnostics - that;s worth reading. But then again I'm well smasshed and you;re entirely sober. I'm sure in broad daylighjt you'll come off looking like a Heeeeeeeeeeeero. Well played.

close... but no cigar

 

[Gambit]

So is everyone hating Radd now? Just need to know where to come in.

 

[radd]

So is everyone hating Radd now? Just need to know where to come in.

Oh good, you too? [Alright, everyone, hates me but in the morning I'll be sober]

 

[Gambit]

Oh good, you too? [Alright, everyone, hates me but in the morning I'll be sober]

Just need to make sure. I don't sactually read all the gumpf befoe and trust me i'm in far wors a state then you. I love you though. That Glazer loving ciderman really gets my goat


Mmm Cider.

 

[radd]

Cheers Gambers. When I read through this tomorrow, I'll know 2 things - one that I was drunk as feck

and second, others weren't, but still kept claiming nonsense.

 

[Gambit]

Cheers Gambers. When I read through this tomorrow, I'll know 2 things - one that I was drunk as feck

and second, others weren't, but still kept claiming nonsense.

No your are talking shit, just don't take it to heart. I spend pretty much all my life talking crap on here. Anyway have the Red Barons made a bid yet?

 

[radd]

Eh, when was exactly was I talking shit? (Just as a r3eminder for tomorrow when I will be sober, I WILL! Ok, something like that - bu)t what exactly did say that was shit?

 

[Marching]

That seems the most logical course of action to me.

They could then start buying the bonds back over time.

The Ironic thing being annual interest payments won't actually decrease but the club would be rid of the PIKs.

It will be interesting to finally see their plans but isn't it going to be confusing with 50-60 owners and will the fans be happy or even able to cough up £250 million? It's a huge ammount.

 

[Gambit]

Eh, when was exactly was I talking shit? (Just as a r3eminder for tomorrow when I will be sober, I WILL! Ok, something like that - bu)t what exactly did say that was shit?

Not got a clue. As I said don't take it to heart.

 

[Gambit]

It will be interesting to finally see their plans but isn't it going to be confusing with 50-60 owners and will the fans be happy or even able to cough up £250 million? It's a huge ammount.

It all depends on the wether the Glazers\ want to sell.

 

[radd]

Not got a clue. As I said don't take it to heart.

Look, I can;t be arsed to read through the whole thread again, but I'm just gonna open another beer instead. Tomorrow, when I'm sober and read through all of this, you will be in BIG trouble, or I will, or someone else..

 

[BaldwinLegend]

So is everyone hating Radd now? Just need to know where to come in.

I hadn't heard of him till earlier but he's gone from hero to zero in half a page

 

[Lance Uppercut]

I suspect he might be drunk but I can't be certain.

 

[Marching]

It all depends on the wether the Glazers\ want to sell.

64,000 dollar question isn't it...I suppose everyone has a price but then the sons will be looking long term presumably and certainly won't be forced out.

Someone on here said the trouble with the Glazer's is they may be wealthy but probably aren't quite wealthy enough....remains to be seen if the RK's are.

 

[Gambit]

Look, I can;t be arsed to read through the whole thread again, but I'm just gonna open another beer instead. Tomorrow, when I'm sober and read through all of this, you will be in BIG trouble, or I will, or someone else..

I couldn't be arsed in the first place. Open another beer, chill, and remember, don't take it to heart.

 

[Gambit]

64,000 dollar question isn't it...I suppose everyone has a price but then the sons will be looking long term presumably and certainly won't be forced out.

Someone on here said the trouble with the Glazer's is they may be wealthy but probably aren't quite wealthy enough....remains to be seen if the RK's are.

Thats my worry, for instance if the Glazer family has a real long term plan, as in generational plan. It takes them 20 years to get the debt paid off. If they do and bring in all the trophies we could ever have dreamed off, will people still be pissed off?

 

[Gambit]

I hadn't heard of him till earlier but he's gone from hero to zero in half a page

Incredible how the feel of a thread can change in so quick a time. Tell you what, hate me now. I can take it.

 

[EZee]

Thats my worry, for instance if the Glazer family has a real long term plan, as in generational plan. It takes them 20 years to get the debt paid off. If they do and bring in all the trophies we could ever have dreamed off, will people still be pissed off?

given a choice would you want to wait 20 years to find out?...
and im not saying the rk are a viable option yet as we simply dont know enough about them or the structure of any bid... but looking at how the glazers have let the united debt rise whilst lining their own pockets Im not sure that i fance having that happen for 20 years

 

[theimperialinn]

It will be interesting to finally see their plans but isn't it going to be confusing with 50-60 owners and will the fans be happy or even able to cough up £250 million? It's a huge ammount.

I think they can't plan anything until they test the water with regards to attracting investment.

If they are going to the City for the cash I think it's do-able as the bond was twice over subscribed.

50-60 owners all doing a due diligence report.

It could take ages .....

 

[EZee]

I think they can't plan anything until they test the water with regards to attracting investment.

If they are going to the City for the cash I think it's do-able as the bond was twice over subscribed.

50-60 owners all doing a due diligence report.

It could take ages .....

nomura are looking at all the figures for the rk... it will still take ages though

 

[Marching]

I think they can't plan anything until they test the water with regards to attracting investment.

If they are going to the City for the cash I think it's do-able as the bond was twice over subscribed.

50-60 owners all doing a due diligence report.

It could take ages .....

At that rate you'll be singing death songs about Glazers sons never mind the old man

 

[Gambit]

given a choice would you want to wait 20 years to find out?...
and im not saying the rk are a viable option yet as we simply dont know enough about them or the structure of any bid... but looking at how the glazers have let the united debt rise whilst lining their own pockets Im not sure that i fance having that happen for 20 years

I don't either but their business is very family orientated, every one goes on about Malcolm when really it's the sons, who are all middle aged, they have kids. There's a family legacy feel to them.

 

[Rood]

What the hell happened in this thread?!

Reminds me of the podcast with mockney and peterstorey getting progressively more pissed as the show progresses.

 

[ciderman9000000]

I can't believe it's got this far without anyone hitting anyone else.

 

[gbgary]

Look, i'm not here so you can 'get something out of' me. I've been baffled as to what it is that you're supposedly asking me, and i've told you as much. If you want my opinion on something then all you have to do is ask, but you seem to be skipping that bit in favour of complaining about my lack of psychic ability.

 

[Rood]

To try and get the thread back on track - saw this story about potential rival bids in the paper this morning - could well be bullshit but would interesting if other parties started to get involved.


Fans oppose a rival bid to Red Knights | City A.M.

A mysterious rival bidder hoping to exploit the unrest at Manchester United will face criticism from fans as fierce as that directed at the Glazers.

Last week we revealed a second bidder was mulling over making an offer for the club in the wake of recent protests. But Manchester United Supporters’ Trust (Must) president Duncan Drasdo says fans will reject any bid that does not directly involve them.

Drasdo told City A.M. there has been a sea change in the way fans see the club and they now expect to be consulted on the way it is run.

He said: “We would be against any bid unless it was run by supporters. We feel there needs to be a fundamental change in the way the club is run to ensure its long term success.

“We would welcome any potential bidders to talk to us but unless it involved a serious amount of fans’ input it would face mass opposition.”

A group of wealthy fans headed by City stalwarts Keith Harris of Seymour Pierce and Jim O’Neill, chief economist at Goldman Sachs, calling themselves the Red Knights, are poised to make a summer bid in excess of £1bn for the club.

They have joined forces with Must to mobilise fans against the incumbent owners. They hope up to 15,000 fans will forgo their season tickets next year, costing the Glazers around £12m in lost revenue.

The Glazers have refused to remove the “not for sale” sign on the club butthey have hired a bank to monitor any incoming bids. The family has responded to the rumours of a second bid by upping its valuation of the club to £1.6bn.

Drasdo even suggested the bid may have been dreamt up by someone within the Glazer camp. He said: “There is no logical explanation for this bid unless someone is trying to bump up the price of the club. I am very sceptical.”

 

[Julian Denny]

To try and get the thread back on track - saw this story about potential rival bids in the paper this morning - could well be bullshit but would interesting if other parties started to get involved.


Fans oppose a rival bid to Red Knights | City A.M.

A mysterious rival bidder hoping to exploit the unrest at Manchester United will face criticism from fans as fierce as that directed at the Glazers.

Last week we revealed a second bidder was mulling over making an offer for the club in the wake of recent protests. But Manchester United Supporters’ Trust (Must) president Duncan Drasdo says fans will reject any bid that does not directly involve them.

Drasdo told City A.M. there has been a sea change in the way fans see the club and they now expect to be consulted on the way it is run.

He said: “We would be against any bid unless it was run by supporters. We feel there needs to be a fundamental change in the way the club is run to ensure its long term success.

“We would welcome any potential bidders to talk to us but unless it involved a serious amount of fans’ input it would face mass opposition.”

A group of wealthy fans headed by City stalwarts Keith Harris of Seymour Pierce and Jim O’Neill, chief economist at Goldman Sachs, calling themselves the Red Knights, are poised to make a summer bid in excess of £1bn for the club.

They have joined forces with Must to mobilise fans against the incumbent owners. They hope up to 15,000 fans will forgo their season tickets next year, costing the Glazers around £12m in lost revenue.

The Glazers have refused to remove the “not for sale” sign on the club butthey have hired a bank to monitor any incoming bids. The family has responded to the rumours of a second bid by upping its valuation of the club to £1.6bn.

Drasdo even suggested the bid may have been dreamt up by someone within the Glazer camp. He said: “There is no logical explanation for this bid unless someone is trying to bump up the price of the club. I am very sceptical.”

I wonder if his is Pini Zahavi again. The danger in this, for the RKs, is that they have a bidding war on their hands - much to the delight no doubt of the Glazers who can still refuse to sell unless a really unrefusable offer comes along. Drasdo is being a little presumptious in saying that they would be "against any bid unless it was run by supporters" and any other bid "would face mass opposition" etc. The matter of bids and a possible sale is at the moment right out of MUST's hands. That does not mean that come the end of the season, say, they can't mobilise their fan base to conduct a meaninful and potentially damaging boycott. We've yet to see that in action and are, for good reasons, unlikely to until the business of next season starts. But what happens if a bidder, other than the RKs, comes in and somehow does the deal before the end of the season ? The most likely scenario is that the Glazers will turn down everything, unless it is outrageous, in which case those who want to force them out will have to consider extreme measures. Whether or not they can be put into effective practice remains to be seen.

 

[M13]

I wonder if that is the Glazers, trying to bump up the price.

 

[Gambit]

Bugger well there goes the 1.5 billion evaluation. This is giving the Glazers everything they want. They don't need to sell and can continue owning the club, or they can sell to the highest bidder making an absolute killing.

 

[Crerand Legend]

Bugger well there goes the 1.5 billion evaluation. This is giving the Glazers everything they want. They don't need to sell and can continue owning the club, or they can sell to the highest bidder making an absolute killing.

That would be about the height of it, win win stuation for our American owners

 

[ciderman9000000]

To try and get the thread back on track - saw this story about potential rival bids in the paper this morning - could well be bullshit but would interesting if other parties started to get involved.


Fans oppose a rival bid to Red Knights | City A.M.

A mysterious rival bidder hoping to exploit the unrest at Manchester United will face criticism from fans as fierce as that directed at the Glazers.

Last week we revealed a second bidder was mulling over making an offer for the club in the wake of recent protests. But Manchester United Supporters’ Trust (Must) president Duncan Drasdo says fans will reject any bid that does not directly involve them.

Drasdo told City A.M. there has been a sea change in the way fans see the club and they now expect to be consulted on the way it is run.

He said: “We would be against any bid unless it was run by supporters. We feel there needs to be a fundamental change in the way the club is run to ensure its long term success.

“We would welcome any potential bidders to talk to us but unless it involved a serious amount of fans’ input it would face mass opposition.”

A group of wealthy fans headed by City stalwarts Keith Harris of Seymour Pierce and Jim O’Neill, chief economist at Goldman Sachs, calling themselves the Red Knights, are poised to make a summer bid in excess of £1bn for the club.

They have joined forces with Must to mobilise fans against the incumbent owners. They hope up to 15,000 fans will forgo their season tickets next year, costing the Glazers around £12m in lost revenue.

The Glazers have refused to remove the “not for sale” sign on the club butthey have hired a bank to monitor any incoming bids. The family has responded to the rumours of a second bid by upping its valuation of the club to £1.6bn.

Drasdo even suggested the bid may have been dreamt up by someone within the Glazer camp. He said: “There is no logical explanation for this bid unless someone is trying to bump up the price of the club. I am very sceptical.”

I see Duncan Dildo is making our minds up for us. Who could have predicted this? Seriously, who put this guy in charge of 'the fans'? What authority does he have to be making decisions on which investors we'll support and which we'll oppose? This is exactly why we should not have all asked 'how high?' when MUST said 'jump!'. Who the feck is he to be making statements like this?! A very small group of 'fans' have begun to think that they can control our thoughts and our actions - they have had some success so far doing exactly that, and now they want more - we need to stand-up for OURSELVES and show Duncan Drasdo that we will no longer be manipulated.

 

[SAred]

To try and get the thread back on track - saw this story about potential rival bids in the paper this morning - could well be bullshit but would interesting if other parties started to get involved.


Fans oppose a rival bid to Red Knights | City A.M.

A mysterious rival bidder hoping to exploit the unrest at Manchester United will face criticism from fans as fierce as that directed at the Glazers.

Last week we revealed a second bidder was mulling over making an offer for the club in the wake of recent protests. But Manchester United Supporters’ Trust (Must) president Duncan Drasdo says fans will reject any bid that does not directly involve them.

Drasdo told City A.M. there has been a sea change in the way fans see the club and they now expect to be consulted on the way it is run.

He said: “We would be against any bid unless it was run by supporters. We feel there needs to be a fundamental change in the way the club is run to ensure its long term success.

“We would welcome any potential bidders to talk to us but unless it involved a serious amount of fans’ input it would face mass opposition.”

A group of wealthy fans headed by City stalwarts Keith Harris of Seymour Pierce and Jim O’Neill, chief economist at Goldman Sachs, calling themselves the Red Knights, are poised to make a summer bid in excess of £1bn for the club.

They have joined forces with Must to mobilise fans against the incumbent owners. They hope up to 15,000 fans will forgo their season tickets next year, costing the Glazers around £12m in lost revenue.
The Glazers have refused to remove the “not for sale” sign on the club butthey have hired a bank to monitor any incoming bids. The family has responded to the rumours of a second bid by upping its valuation of the club to £1.6bn.

Drasdo even suggested the bid may have been dreamt up by someone within the Glazer camp. He said: “There is no logical explanation for this bid unless someone is trying to bump up the price of the club. I am very sceptical.”

What a great idea, ruin the club so we can put the club back into the hands of the fans. I club that Sir Alex has built up has one the worlds greats over a number of years can be taken back by a bunch of people who say they are concerned about the debt and the best solution to get rid of the Glazers is by ruining the club. No wonder Sir Alex has distance himself from the madness.

 

[ciderman9000000]

What a great idea, ruin the club so we can put the club back into the hands of the fans. I club that Sir Alex has built up has one the worlds greats over a number of years can be taken back by a bunch of people who say they are concerned about the debt and the best solution to get rid of the Glazers is by ruining the club. No wonder Sir Alex has distance himself from the madness.

Not just SAF. We should ALL be distancing ourselves from Duncan Drasdo and the MUST mob. They are taking this too far, this is not what the fans wanted - we never wanted Duncan Drasdo making decisions for us, we never put him in charge of which investors we'll support and which we'll oppose. MUST are taking liberties and taking advantage of our solidarity in order to further their own political agendas. We need to stop this now.

 

[Longsden_7]

mad with power ?

 

[BRobson]

Not just SAF. We should ALL be distancing ourselves from Malcolm Glazer and the Glazer mob. They are taking this too far, this is not what the fans wanted - we never wanted Malcolm Glazer making decisions for us, we never put him in charge of which crippling debts we'll support and which we'll oppose. Glazers are taking liberties and taking advantage of our subordinateness in order to further their own money making agendas. We need to stop this now.

agreed

 

[SAred]

Why did the Red Knights only appear when the Green and Gold campaign was in full swing.