If Usmanov took over at Arsenal I'd have to consider my position, that might lead to me not renewing but I don't think many others would be with me.
All change of ownership and Red Knights related posts here please
- Thread starter Gunnar
- Start date
See that's the thing; some people are prepared to make a stand. Others will wait to see what others do first, or make excuses.
I think we'll be surprised how many people don't renew this summer. I hope I am.
Well I wish you luck but I think it'll be like FCUM, a few hardcore but the majority won't budge.
Have you read Animal Farm?
We'll either have to wait and see how people deal with it themselves, or see how effective an official boycott will be.
Never...?
Good book 
Nah, I'm only teasing you...there'd be no point in explaining it, it was a one liner. It's about pigs..
140,000 just clocked up - well on target for 150,000 probably take a week or so to get there but how many will put their hands in their pocket?
30% max?
most probably just think it's trendy
30% max?
most probably just think it's trendy
Nail on the head. Making a few free clicks on the internet is easy so the true test will be seeing who's still there when asked for money.
What is an "official" boycott ????
That's the kind of unhelpful statement that has meant opposition to the Glazers has been so fractured for the last 5 years mate.
A boycott that has been 'officially' called by MUST. -this HASN'T happened.
Unhelpful, maybe you're right. But it's the truth. It's like has been said many times: handing over your money is continuing to feed the monster.
To be honest, I don't think MUST's members would support a boycott. As in 2005, MUST's job is to represent its members, not tell them what to do. I think the only way that MUST could feasibly call for a boycott was if (a) they were convinced it was the best way to force the Glazers to sell, and (b) they were convinced their members would support such a call.
Well you can try and shoot me next season if you like. I've not decided what I'm doing yet.
Where do you sit, M13 RED? I'll probably be able to afford to buy my ticket back by next season, reckon you could sell me your's? Can i have first dibs on it if it's a good seat?
I think in a strange way, boycotts could actually end-up doing the club a favour. There'd be loads more tickets on general-sale, so a greater number of fans would be getting the opportunity to go support their team - it'd be a bit like the old days when you could pay on the turnstile - fans who'd never really gone to matches before could become regular customers. Plus the most hardcore of the miserable lot wouldn't be there anymore, so everyone could just get on with enjoying the match without all the ill-feeling.
I really think you should read animal farm M13
EDIT: For some reason that gimp looks incredibly sarcastic....That's not something i was trying to get that across when I googled big thumbs up.
Everyone should read Animal Farm.
I'm sure I'm leaving myself open to a (quite rightful) deluge of accusations that I can't possibly stretch that allegory to fit these circumstances so I'll pre-empt it now by saying, no, I quite clearly can't.
Club Ownership
I guess this may well get merged into either the G&G or RK thread (or worse, moved to the football forum!) which I suppose is fair enough, but I wanted to put it in its own thread, as it is a specific query that I fear may just get lost in the other bickering...
There's a fair bit of talk about potential fan-inclusive ownership structures, and both Spanish and German clubs are oftne brought up as examples. Most people, understandably, seem to feel that the Spanish system, while better than being milked by corporates, has problems in the way presidntial candidates have to promise big signings to satisfy the muppets etc. The German system is often referred to as being superior, but it occurred to me that I don't really know the details of either.
So, I'm wondering if anybody here is informed enough to explain how teh systems work, and what teh differences are etc.
All I really know is two facts:
Things I'd like to know include:
Fact me up!
I guess this may well get merged into either the G&G or RK thread (or worse, moved to the football forum!) which I suppose is fair enough, but I wanted to put it in its own thread, as it is a specific query that I fear may just get lost in the other bickering...
There's a fair bit of talk about potential fan-inclusive ownership structures, and both Spanish and German clubs are oftne brought up as examples. Most people, understandably, seem to feel that the Spanish system, while better than being milked by corporates, has problems in the way presidntial candidates have to promise big signings to satisfy the muppets etc. The German system is often referred to as being superior, but it occurred to me that I don't really know the details of either.
So, I'm wondering if anybody here is informed enough to explain how teh systems work, and what teh differences are etc.
All I really know is two facts:
- Barca / Madrid are owned by members (fans), who vote for a president every few years.
- German clubs all have to have 50% + 1 of their shares owned by fans.
Things I'd like to know include:
- Who are the members?
- How do you become one?
- Can anybody buy their way in?
- Can members sell up and make a profit?
- Is there any guarantee that the members are actually fans?
- Is it related to Season Ticket ownership in some way (I've gto the impression int he past that in Spain it is)?
Fact me up!
Its different for each club.
Barcelona’s members are called "socios". They pay a membership fee, which I believe is around 150Euros a year. They have well over 100,000 members.
For that, they get to vote in the club elections every 4 or 5 years and get discounts and priority on tickets. Season tickets are extra.
Anyone can join, membership numbers are unlimited. Members don’t get a share of the club and they receive no profit.
Barcelona’s members are called "socios". They pay a membership fee, which I believe is around 150Euros a year. They have well over 100,000 members.
For that, they get to vote in the club elections every 4 or 5 years and get discounts and priority on tickets. Season tickets are extra.
Anyone can join, membership numbers are unlimited. Members don’t get a share of the club and they receive no profit.
hope that helps
As Fred says, most Barca members never go to games.
People in Barca join because they believe its their social responsibility to support the club that represents their city so well. To them, its like paying their council tax.
People in Barca join because they believe its their social responsibility to support the club that represents their city so well. To them, its like paying their council tax.
I've seen the film..
And from what I saw, I am certain thats not what George Orwell had in mind..
If he did, he had some serious sexuality issues.
OK, that clears up a large part of my query regarding Barca - it's like a glorified One United, where you have to pay mroe but get to vote for the president!
But it opens up another question... who owns the club?
But it opens up another question... who owns the club?
As a visitor, what do you think to planet earth ?
What planet is it you come from again ?
- Who are the members?
The members are the 160,000 odd 'socis' (members). They can be anybody but a sizable portion are match going fans. Only members can buy season tickets and the cost of a season ticket includes a membership fee- so every season ticket holder is a member. - How do you become one?
You pay 150 euros a year or, like I said, if you buy a season ticket the membership is included in that price. - Can anybody buy their way in?
Buy their way in to becoming a member? Yes. - Can members sell up and make a profit?
They don't own shares. - Is there any guarantee that the members are actually fans?
Sort of. For the reason I already said- ST holders are all members, meaning that a large proportion of potential voters are match going fans but 160k and a stadium capacity of 98k with considerable daytrippers attending every match- obviously match going fans arent in the majority. - Is it related to Season Ticket ownership in some way (I've gto the impression int he past that in Spain it is)?
I really should have read all the questions before I started to reply!
Barcelona 'supporters' obtain positions on the board as a percentage of the positions are filled completely randomly- a computer picks members randomly who then sit on the board. The president is voted for by every member and the remaining board positions are decided by the president and the board.
No one actually physically owns the club.
I suppose if you want to compare it to anything it would be a charity such as the RSPB or the RSPCA
Anyone can join, and you can be as active as you wish to be.
I'm not sure I've seen fred and Ralph on here at the same time... hmmm.
Alright fred?
Alright fred?
I really think you should read animal farm M13
Would your Animal Farm/United set up look like this:
*****Cast*****
Mr Jones...Malcolm Glazer
Snowball...MUST
Napoleon...Keith Harris
Napoleon's dogs..The RK's
Boxer.......United fans
Manor Farm..Old Trafford
I agree that it could happen to follow the story of animal farm (if that's what you're saying), but looking back at all the Mr Jones/Napoleon's that have run our Farm, then its hard to picture one as bad as the Glazers. The facts we've been told are undisputed by both sides so we dont have a Squealer in our set up, so I think we know who and what we're dealing with. I think its doubtful we would find our club in the hands of owners as bad as the Glazers, so thats why I think four legs are better
This is what I'm having difficulty getting my head round, I guess...
So hypothetically... if, for some reason that I can't really think of, they chose to or had to cease trading and playing, where would all their assets go? Conversely, who is liable for debts?
Is it the same set-up for Madrid and other Spanish teams?
Anybody know anything about the German model? As I understand it, that is genuine fan ownership, due to the 50% + 1 rule?
On my planet, we don't put spaces between the final word of a sentence and it's punctuation. It's mental.
Theoretically it could be divided between the members at the time of the cessation of existence. I've seen that happen over here where social clubs have gone under and members have been given a share of what was left after the club settled its debts and sold the property.
But you haven't learned the correct use of "its" and "it's".
Fascinating, all the makings of an outstanding documentary.
Right, the social club analogy makes sense I guess.
Let's all (ie 150k+ United fans) become members for a season, and vote to wind the club up and split the assets!
Does this structure make it impossible to carry large debts, as I can't see how 150k members could be held liable for them?
...Which brings us on to Madrid - I know their debts are largely, shall we say, unconventional (ie poorly disguised gifts from the government etc), but somebody must be liable for them?
All i'm saying is that, if boycotts do begin, then, as M13 pointed out, it'd be pretty hypocritical of anyone in the ground to be wearing green and gold anymore; so that'd be the end of that nonsense. With all the moaning-lot gone for the foreseeable future, perhaps we could get on with being a club which concentrates on football again, rather than playing at being baby-revolutionists. MUST's influence and appeal would soon die-off, everybody would calm-down; it'd be like a big breath of fresh-air after a shit-storm.
Its really is a crazy planet.