All Time Chain Draft Round 1 EAP vs Skizzo

With players at their peaks, who will win?


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  • Poll closed .

VivaJanuzaj

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................ Team Edgar Allan Pillow ................................................................................. Team Skizzo ................................

Team Edgar Allan Pillow:

Attack:
  • Andriy Shevchenko in his Balon d'or winning form leads the line. A complete striker he is proven goal scorer himself and is versatile with excellent hold up play to bring Kalle and Totti, fantastic goal scorers themselves into the play.
  • 2 x European Footballer of the Year, 'Kalle' Rummenigge plays in his favourite position having a free role playing behind Shevchenko. Having played on the Right Wing for Germany, he'll be deadly in stretching the defence and finding spaces to exploit. With Shevchenko ahead and Totti behind him, his pace and movement will cause havoc in any kind of opposition defence. Additionally he has his favourite midfielder, the other half of Breitnigge operating behind him.
  • Francesco Totti, one of the greatest Italian players of all time, a playmaker renowned for his technical ability and goal scoring ability completes the attacking trio. A totally versatile player, he has excelled as a sole CF leading the line, a supporting striker, a attacking midfielder, left inside forward throughout his career. Creativity, vision, goal scoring ability...he has it all
All 3 of my attacking trio are proven goal scorers. Not just poachers, they are complete forwards, who can score, hold up and make plays for each other. Totti's ability to drift left and Kalle's ability to drift right mixed with the brilliance of Shevchenko form a flexible attacking unit, that will be a nightmare for any defender to hold against.

Midfield:
  • Der Tiger Effenberg, was never just a ball carrier. A fearsome character, who has brilliant leadership skills, fantastic passing range, powerful shooting ability he can run the midfield on his own. One of the best box to box midfielders of all time, he'll be a crucial link in both recovery and transition to attack.
  • Der Afro Breitner is the perfect complement to Effenberg on the other side. Another fantastic playmaking box-to-box midfielder, he has a proven and fabulous partnership with Kalle. During his 'breitnigge' spell (1981-82) he scored 18 goals from 29 matches from the midfield!
  • The Puma, Emreson was a quick and elegant ball winning defensive midfielder who is versatile and has operated as central midfielder or box-to-box midfielder. A important part of the Brazilian National Team for nearly 10 years, he was noted for his efficient tackling, stamina, anticipation, and ability to read the game. Not just winning the ball back, he was also competent to start attacks on his own.
Emerson will deploy in front of the defence acting as the defensive shield, allowing Effenberg and Breitner more freedom to join the attack. All 3 of them have excellent workrate in recovery off the ball, good abilities on the ball and intelligence and enough playmaking skills to keep the midfield ticking and provide continuous supply to my lethal front line.

Defence:

  • Brehme is one of the best left backs of all time. He has an exceptional knack for finding the back of the net, scoring at every club he played for. He is also one of the greatest free-kick takers and crossers of all time
  • Klaus Augenthaler, a mainstay and long time captain of Bayern Munich is a exceptional defender and has been named in Bayern Munich all time XI. He has excellant ability on the ball and was able to play as a sweeper later in his career.
  • Phillipe Mexes a hard hitting no nonsense defender partners Augenthaler. Be it Roma or Milan, Mexes has been an integral part of the defence. He'll be a perfect foil and makes up a tasty partnership.
  • Willy Sagnol was one of best full backs of his generation. Integral part of one of the best France national teams and a mainstay with Bayern at his club level, he is capable of owning the flank on his own.
A competent CB pairing flanked by a brilliant full back pair. Both full backs are defensively sound and are proven contributors to the offence. They can provide the width even in absence of wingers ahead and link with Totti/Kalle to complete the diamond in the midfield.


Team Skizzo

Formation/Tactic - 4-3-1-2

Between the sticks, we have one of the best, if not the best, goalkeeper in the draft in Gigi Buffon. The Italian stopper will be protected by 4 of the greatest defenders to have ever appeared for Real Madrid. The full back spots are secured by Antonio Camacho and Chendo. Both are defenders first, with Camacho offering more going forward than his full back compatriot. In the center we have Jose Santamaria and Fernando Hierro. Two tough defenders, who just love to defend. With Hierro, we have the added bonus of having his incredible distribution from the back.

In midfield we have one of the greatest Spanish players of all time, Pirri. He will be the deepest midfielder and will look to add extra protection to the already solid backline. He'll be flanked on either side by two versatile, hard working midfielders in Luis Del Sol and Luis Enrique. Both Del Sol and Enrique have a fantastic work ethic, but also the added bonus of being comfortable out wide. Del Sol started his career as an outside left, and Enrique played regularly on the wings also.Both of them will look to offer width to the attack when appropriate, and look to supply our main playmaker.

That being the last true number 10, Juan Roman Riquelme. An absolutely fantastic passer of the ball, Riquelme will look to supply the forwards, as well as make use of the runners around him whether it be the hard working midfielders, or an overlapping fullback. Riquelme will be looking to work his magic, and fill in a role similar to what made our front two so successful.



John Charles and Omar Sivori will be leading the line, and striking up their partnership that was so successful for Juventus. Riquelme will take the deeper role that Boniperti took up, and link with these two fantastic front players. Sivori would often drift around the defense, looking for areas to receive the ball and link play between Charles and Boniperti, here he would have a fantastic playmaker in Riquelme who would feed the movement with his incredible eye for a pass.

Why we would win:

  • A proven, successful strike partnership. Charles and Sivori complement each other fantastically well, and aren't just the typical big man/little man type of duo. Both work hard with and without the ball, and will be a handful for the defense.
  • Everyone on our team is comfortable in possession, and won't struggle when pressed. All are comfortable moving the ball around and looking for openings. If Edgar does employ a high press, we have a fantastic out ball with Hierro to Charles, who can knock it down to Sivori or Riquelme.
  • Three out of our 4 defenders can be comfortably placed into a Madrid all time team, and Chendo wouldn't be far away. They can also be part of any conversation of some of the best defenders of all time. I see them being relatively comfortable dealing with the type of threat the opposition poses.
  • With Del Sol and Enrique we have to fantastically hard working players who will look to support the attack at times, drop back and defend, and also offer width when necessary. The biggest bonus to that is that we don't have to rely on our full backs to offer it, meaning we can keep a solid base.
  • That being said, Camacho is still a fantastic outlet down the flank and will look to make runs when available, knowing that Chendo will mostly be staying "home" and there's three hard working midfielders capable of covering.
  • Service to Charles. He has a height advantage on both central defenders as it is, and his phenomenal ability in the air will cause havoc. Either directly with chances on goal, or winning the ball to knock down to Sivori and Riquelme.
  • Lastly, goals throughout our team. Charles and Sivori are both great goal scorers. Del Sol and Pirri offer goals from midfield. Hierro is capable of scoring regularly. Riquelme offers us a threat from direct set pieces, and balls in to the box from free kicks and corners for Charles, Hierro etc to attack.
In closing, Team Edgar has some fantastic players, but there are a few "weak" areas that could be exploited by top quality players. Two stand out ones are Mexes having to cover for Sagnol who is needed for width, and Emerson having to close down Riquelme who will be able to wriggle free on more than one occasion and set us free with his passing and vision.

Good luck Edgar!
 
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VivaJanuzaj

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I look at EAP's side - Damn! Great diamond.
  • Attack - Brilliant! Kalle-Shevchenko is a killer for a diamond. Kalle can drift wide right if necessary of course and it screams goals
  • Midfield - I love it, Effenberg controling it with Breitner(Who is joining his beloved Rummenigge) with Emerson shielding and Totti behind the strikers? That's lovely. Improve Emerson later and that's final worthy.
  • Defence - Sagnol-Breheme for a diamond is just nothing short than perfect. but! and this is crucial, are Mexes-Augenthaler enough to stop the trio of Riquelme-Sivori-Charles? Damn I'm not sure.

EAP has the better team as far as I can tell, but Skizzo's defence seems much stronger in terms of defending and might be better capable of containing the opponent's attack.
I really don't know.
 

Šjor Bepo

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i thought to myself, what a fecking team EAP has built, was amazed by quality and right type of players in all positions specially as i dont really like diamond formations but then i saw the centerbacks. Dont know much about Augenthaler(@Balu ?) but Mexes is fecking shit, one of the worst defenders right now and this is an all time draft, shocking pick in my book.

Will have to do some research about skizzo team but i dont rate Riquelme that highly, player born in the wrong time....
 

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i thought to myself, what a fecking team EAP has built, was amazed by quality and right type of players in all positions specially as i dont really like diamond formations but then i saw the centerbacks. Dont know much about Augenthaler(@Balu ?) but Mexes is fecking shit, one of the worst defenders right now and this is an all time draft, shocking pick in my book.

Will have to do some research about skizzo team but i dont rate Riquelme that highly, player born in the wrong time....
:lol: almost vote for Skizzo for that
 

Skizzo

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I look at EAP's side - Damn! Great diamond.
  • Attack - Brilliant! Kalle-Shevchenko is a killer for a diamond. Kalle can drift wide right if necessary of course and it screams goals
  • Midfield - I love it, Effenberg controling it with Breitner(Who is joining his beloved Rummenigge) with Emerson shielding and Totti behind the strikers? That's lovely. Improve Emerson later and that's final worthy.
  • Defence - Sagnol-Breheme for a diamond is just nothing short than perfect. but! and this is crucial, are Mexes-Augenthaler enough to stop the trio of Riquelme-Sivori-Charles? Damn I'm not sure.

EAP has the better team as far as I can tell, but Skizzo's defence seems much stronger in terms of defending and might be better capable of containing the opponent's attack.
I really don't know.
I'll just touch on this before I go though since it's here :)

Sivori is just as capable of drifting wide left as Rummenigge is of drifting right. He's also a Ballon D'Or winner, and has the partnership with Charles.

The biggest advantage there though is that he could find space if Sagnol is pushed up, and/or he's up against Mexes. With the movement there, Riquelme would pick those passes.

As for the midfields, I'd edge it to him, but hardly think anyone will be controlling it. Pirri is more capable of limiting Totti than Emerson is of Riquelme imo. Especially when considering the defences behind the midfield.

In a back and forth game, I'd back my defence to shut him down more than vice versa...Although obviously Im biased :)
 

Skizzo

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i thought to myself, what a fecking team EAP has built, was amazed by quality and right type of players in all positions specially as i dont really like diamond formations but then i saw the centerbacks. Dont know much about Augenthaler(@Balu ?) but Mexes is fecking shit, one of the worst defenders right now and this is an all time draft, shocking pick in my book.

Will have to do some research about skizzo team but i dont rate Riquelme that highly, player born in the wrong time....
Which players do you want to know? Sivori and Del Sol? I did brief write ups in the chain thread. I'll try and get a bit more info when I get back :)

And I'll get you some more info on Riquelme too. He's fantastic on the ball. Not as hard working defensively, bit with three graters behind him, and the movement...his passing and dribbling could cause some trouble.

Especially with Mexes there :p
 

Šjor Bepo

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Which players do you want to know? Sivori and Del Sol? I did brief write ups in the chain thread. I'll try and get a bit more info when I get back :)
Sivori, Del Sol and Pirri :)
 

VivaJanuzaj

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Which players do you want to know? Sivori and Del Sol? I did brief write ups in the chain thread. I'll try and get a bit more info when I get back :)

And I'll get you some more info on Riquelme too. He's fantastic on the ball. Not as hard working defensively, bit with three graters behind him, and the movement...his passing and dribbling could cause some trouble.

Especially with Mexes there :p
Maybe if you just link these writeups here it would be better for you. I can add it to OP as well
 

antohan

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If I were @Skizzo I would be pissed that EAP got the heads up on that cockup of a front three he had planned. Much better this.
 

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If I were @Skizzo I would be pissed that EAP got the heads up on that cockup of a front three he had planned. Much better this.
Yeah it's a bit shit that there was a discussion about not doing tactics/formations by committee...But here we are.

I still think we would have enough to win though. Will be harder to break us down than vice versa. Pirri with Hierro and Santamaria compared to Emerson with Augenthaler and Mexes. Simplified view of it I know, but Mexes is there. Mexes.
 

VivaJanuzaj

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Yeah it's a bit shit that there was a discussion about not doing tactics/formations by committee...But here we are.

I still think we would have enough to win though. Will be harder to break us down than vice versa. Pirri with Hierro and Santamaria compared to Emerson with Augenthaler and Mexes. Simplified view of it I know, but Mexes is there. Mexes.
Yeah, that's the big question that I am trying to figure out still. Is there enough in that weak matchup to allow you to outscore him?
 

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EAP is great at setting out a diamond. Fine choice of midfielders, attackers and full-backs. Good use of full names too to provide the impression his midfielders are covering the whole park. Spot on.
 

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EAP is great at setting out a diamond. Fine choice of midfielders, attackers and full-backs. Good use of full names too to provide the impression his midfielders are covering the whole park. Spot on.
That's such a fantastic trick. I'm surprised that some still don't do it :lol:.
 

crappycraperson

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Yeah it's a bit shit that there was a discussion about not doing tactics/formations by committee...But here we are.

I still think we would have enough to win though. Will be harder to break us down than vice versa. Pirri with Hierro and Santamaria compared to Emerson with Augenthaler and Mexes. Simplified view of it I know, but Mexes is there. Mexes.
Sorry. That formation EAP put up just looked so wrong. In any case, I don't get why he is running away with this at this stage.. 4-0. I would say the biggest gulf in quality here is between your defense and his. Need to read more on Sivorri, Chendo and Pirri before I vote though
 

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Is Charles suited to a diamond? My impression at striker he would be best served by a crossing winger.

Excellent line-ups both of you. I'm leaning towards EAP as his full-backs are better suited to a diamond.

I remember watching Del Sol in old Real games (I assume it's him). He looked quite handy.
 

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Sorry. That formation EAP put up just looked so wrong. In any case, I don't get why he is running away with this at this stage.. 4-0. I would say the biggest gulf in quality here is between your defense and his. Need to read more on Sivorri, Chendo and Pirri before I vote though
Not your fault, he got the Se feedback from everyone...which is why it's a bit annoying since he would have used a bad formation rather than lining up how he should.

I'll be linking in some info for those players in a bit.
 

Skizzo

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Is Charles suited to a diamond? My impression at striker he would be best served by a crossing winger.

Excellent line-ups both of you. I'm leaning towards EAP as his full-backs are better suited to a diamond.

I remember watching Del Sol in old Real games (I assume it's him). He looked quite handy.
I think Charles gets stereotyped a bit as a muscular Peter Crouch. His all round game was fantastic, which is why so many defenders list him as so difficult to play against.

In the set up here, he has a similar fit with Sivori and Riquelme as to how he played at Juve with Sivori and Boniperti. Obviously it's a little different, but Sivori would drift wide and play balls in, and Camacho and Hierro would be able to pick him out too. He has a height advantage over both defenders, not to mention his leap.

And yes, that's the same Del Sol. He was the original Three Lung Park. He did all the running and hard work to free up Di Stefano et al to run the game.
 

antohan

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That's such a fantastic trick. I'm surprised that some still don't do it :lol:.
I think it was me teaching EAP about using BIG CAPS, but I don't do full names. I hate them really as they often create problems with my fullbacks ending up tucked in!
 

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i am surprised how this is 4-1 to EAP, i thought it would be an easy win for Skizzo considering EAP has Mexes and Emerson in key positions, and there isn't any significant weakness in Skizzo's line-up apart from the possible question of whether his full-backs would be able to utilize the space available to them
 

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Enrique Omar Sivori (1935-2005) River Plate, Juventus, Napoli/ Argentina, Italy

The Maradona of the Sixties



Early Years

Sívori was born in San Nicolas de los Arroyos, a town which falls within the Buenos Aires Province, in an Italian Argentine family. His paternal grandfather, Giulio Sivori, was an immigrant from Cavi di Lavagna, a hamlet in the Province of Genoa, while his mother Carolina was of Abruzzian descent. As a youngster Sívori became heavily interested in the game of football and by the time he reached his teens he was signed up to a side from his home province; River Plate. The teenage Sívori was given a chance to break through into a squad which included players like the famed forwards Angel Labruna and Felix Loustau, who established themselves in the era of La Maquina, one of the foremost formations in football history. He soon earned the nickname El Cabezón (bighead) from the fans, due to his playing style.

River was able to win the Argentine Primera Division in 1955, the title was confirmed when River beat local arch rival Boca Juniors 2–1 at La Bombonera, in Buenos Aires, with just one game remaining. The same season River won the Copa Río de La Plata by beating Nacional from Uruguay. The following season he had similar success when River won the Argentine league title on the final day of the season; beating Rosario Central 4–0, with Sívori scoring the final goal.Sívori would play his final game for River against the same team on 5 May 1957.

During the 1957-58 season, the 21-year-old Sívori was signed by Italian club Juventus after being spotted by Renato Cesarini. Juventus paid 10 million pesos (the equivalent of £91,000) for the transfer, which was a world-record transfer fee for the time. Sívori's move would prove bad for River's league fortunes, in the 18 years after 1957 they were unable to win the league in Argentina. However, they were able to complete their El Monumental stadium (previously nicknamed the horseshoe) by adding a fourth stand baring his name, with the money from the deal.

Move to Italy


Prior to the arrival of Sívori and Welshman John Charles, Juventus had been going through somewhat of a slump. However, the duo along with experienced Juventino Giampiero Boniperti, put together a formidable force and won Serie A during 1957–58. The good form continues and Sívori won two more scudetto titles (1959–60 and 1960–61) as well as two Coppa Italia's (1958–59 and 1959–60). Omar Sívori's hard work had paid off and he was named European Footballer of the Year (also known as Ballon d'or) in 1961.



The same year as his personal achievement however, "the Magical Trio" as they were known, had broken up with Boniperti's retirement and the following season John Charles moved back to Leeds United. Sívori stayed on with the Old Lady, notably scoring the only goal in a 1–0 victory against Real Madrid, making Juventus the first Italian side ever to win at the Santiago Bernabeu Stadium. Sívori did not win anymore championships or trophies with Juventus, and left after the 1964–65 season, because of a disagreement with new coach Heriberto Herrera.

With Juventus, Sívori scored 167 goals in 253 appearances in all competitions, remaining Juventus' fifth highest goalscorer. He also holds the record for most Juventus goals in a single league game; during the 9–1 victory against Inter Milan on 10 June 1961 he scored six goals.

Over to Naples

Napoli

In 1965 he signed with Napoli helping them to a third place finish in the first season at the club, they also won the Coppa delle Alpi. During the 1967–68 season, Napoli's squad boasted talents along with Sívori such as Dino Zoff and Jose Altafini, the club took A.C. Milan all the way in the battle for the Serie A championship; Napoli eventually finished as second. Ironically, Sívori's last ever game was against Juventus, he was given a red card for kicking Erminio Favalli and was suspended for six matches.

 

antohan

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i am surprised how this is 4-1 to EAP, i thought it would be an easy win for Skizzo considering EAP has Mexes and Emerson in key positions, and there isn't any significant weakness in Skizzo's line-up apart from the possible question of whether his full-backs would be able to utilize the space available to them
Camacho would, Chendo less so but Lucho will.
 

antohan

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Seems like SkizzoPat shouldn't have split. It's The Beatles all over again. Scratch that, Oasis, The Beatles were still quite good individually.
 

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i am surprised how this is 4-1 to EAP, i thought it would be an easy win for Skizzo considering EAP has Mexes and Emerson in key positions, and there isn't any significant weakness in Skizzo's line-up apart from the possible question of whether his full-backs would be able to utilize the space available to them
you dont rate Emerson? Im pretty sure Riquelme wouldn't be able to do his magic against that midfield trio....
 

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I'll have the other profiles coming in a moment for Del Sol and Pirri....But just a little bit of info for people that are wowed by his strikers.

Sivori and Charles BOTH have a better scoring record at their peak in Juve than Shevchenko at Milan and Rummenigge at Bayern.

And here they're up against a "weaker" defence than their opposite numbers.
 

antohan

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Enrique Omar Sivori (1935-2005) River Plate, Juventus, Napoli/ Argentina, Italy

The Maradona of the Sixties

Riquelme-Sívori-CHarles is a very @Chesterlestreet triangle

I think you need to focus more on Del Sol who, by all acccounts, would be a great asset here. Pirri likewise. Those two may well be completely overlooked otherwise.
 

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you dont rate Emerson? Im pretty sure Riquelme wouldn't be able to do his magic against that midfield trio....
Emerson would struggle with Riquelme imo. Riquelme is great on the ball, but his passing is what makes him so dangerous. Here he's freed up because of the 3 hard working midfielders behind him. Riquelme would split that defence with Mexes covering the space Signal leaves when pushing up.

The benefit of us having Hierro is that when we need a quick counter, he can bypass the midfield completely If necessary and Charles would win the majority (if not all) headers to knock it down to Sivori and Riquelme.

Not to mention Emerson is a bit tenacious and clumsy at times. With him and Mexes, there's likely to be a few free kicks. Riquelme is a bit of a dead ball specialist, and Charles, Hierro, etc are a handful from corners and free kicks.
 

Skizzo

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Riquelme-Sívori-CHarles is a very @Chesterlestreet triangle

I think you need to focus more on Del Sol who, by all acccounts, would be a great asset here. Pirri likewise. Those two may well be completely overlooked otherwise.
I'm gonna have their wrote ups coming in a moment. My laptop is slow as feck right now so I'm replying on my phone while waiting for it :lol:
 

antohan

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Noels doin fine. Liams fecked though
Still no McCartney or Lennon. I guess the scorelines will tell us which is the new Noel and which one is the new Liam. You know how I like making up side trophies in drafts. So there you go: "The Liam Gallagher Award to the co-manager who shouldn't have gone solo".