All-Time Fantasy Draft

[antohan]

Tournament XI and Individual Awards

Criteria: players eliminated in the first round or constantly changing hands are severely handicapped, it's about consistency of performance and contribution to their sides.

Banks (KM): Messi aside, it was Banks bailing KMs side out as it constantly changed midfield and defensive setups and personnel, sometimes even 5 minutes into a game.

Cafú (Stobzilla): Another defence that kept getting reshuffled, but not Cafú who consistently and effectively provided width to a team packed with midfield creation.

Charles (Cutch): A mainstay for the runners-up, the Gentle Giant kept some of the greatest forwards in his pocket and managed to keep Eyzaguirre's rubbishness papered-over until the final.

Nesta (DanNistelrooy): In a team with such an awesome frontline, many expected (or hoped, if a rival manager) to find an eye-glaring weakness at the back. And then they saw Nesta and McGrath.

Facchetti (Antohan): His MotM award in the final was no surprise to those who followed his performances over the course of the tournament. Much like Cafú, he owned his flank, allowing his team to change personnel and playing style as it evolved.

Di Stéfano (Brwned): Maradona picks himself in his favoured role, but it would be a travesty for Don Alfredo not to make it. The allfielder was the fulcrum for one of the best sides in the competition, and for Cutch once he claimed that scalp. MotM in some of the most memorable battles of the tournament: EDogen vs. Brwned, Brwned vs. Cutch, Cutch vs. Dan (dubbed, "the battle of the wings", it was Don Alfredo tipping the balance through the middle).

Rijkaard (Antohan): His manager nailed his colours on the mast early on: "We are not beating anyone upfront starting from 13th, so we will build a solid foundation, ride our luck, and hope we can pick up a proper Argie and Brazilian later on". The responsibility for making it feasible fell on Laudrup's and Rijkaard's shoulders. The Dutchman turned in some of the best individual tournament performances ever, as he amputated the creative engine out of sides containing Platini, Pelé and Maradona.

Maradona (thisistheone): Odd defensive setups, random fullback choices, midfielders constantly out of position, mood swings over who to play upfront... Maradona single-handedly carried his side to the semis and came agonisingly close to booking a place in the final. He then joined the side that had waited for him all along and delivered the goods. Awesome.

Cristiano Ronaldo (Dan Nistelrooy): His side kept experimenting in midfield with one thing clear in their minds: "the 2Rs will pull us through anyway". Rival teams consistently started games one goal down, a real cal?amity at this level. An incredible midweek headed goal kept his side in the semi despite Yaya Toure playing at RB. By the final showdown, muppet overdrive kept the game see-sawing, prompting investigations on irrational gambling patterns.

George Best (Cutch): Several managers pulled their hairs out when they saw the Belfast Boy join Team Cutch, and rightly so. The wing wizard tore defences apart mercilessly throughout the tournament and was the key reason for Team Cutch to land the Golden Boot.

Pelé (NM): Pelé's performance was remarkable. In a team that packed significant firepower, he became the creative fulcrum. Then at one with significant creativity but limited firepower, he moved upfront and delivered to the same out-of-this-world standards. A beast, the best and most complete forward ever, and we got to see every aspect of it.

Golden Ball: Diego Maradona (thisistheone)
Golden Boot: Marco van Basten (Cutch) - 7 goals

 

[antohan]

All-Time Best Possible XI for a Fantasy Draft

​

That's the side I thought would have been the best performing considering nationality rules.

Main subjects of debate would be Matthaus over Beckenbauer and Pelé over Ronaldo/Messi.

Matthaus in this fantasy format would likely get more votes, the pair is one of the meanest you could possibly form and would have you sorted whoever you met. In real life Beckenbauer was the better player and option, although with those two in the centre of defence it gets very close (they favour Matthaus' inclusion).

Pelé over Ronaldo/Messi is pretty simple: that side would dominate play and have the other with their backs against the wall all game (not much scope for Ronaldo's awesome runs) and with the width available it would be a crying shame not to have an aerial presence in the box.

If you relax the nationality rule as The Religion demanded, then you would bring on Baresi for Moore and Cafú for Andrade. Cafú over others for marketing and as the most attacking option relative to Carlos Alberto, Djalma, Zanetti and Andrade himself.

Not a dramatic difference, although TRs point was largely aimed at the situations where great players had to sit on the bench for someone else to be on the pitch.

So I guess that would be my All-Time XI, although I would put Beckenbauer back on for control and build up. Who needs the meanest pairs if your oppo is soiling its pants?
​

 

[Moby]

It would have been really drab without the Nationality rule as suggested by TR. I am actually playing one in another forum which is an all out All Time draft, no restrictions and every manager barring a couple who are playing players out of positions have pretty much flawless teams and there is no scope for any debate in there. Glad that we had this rule.

 

[Theon]

You have no Frenchy is that first one, so Thuram should stroll in ahead of Andrade IMO. The guys prime was in the 1920's at the end of the day, totally different game back then surely.

 

[EDogen]

This was a great draft and credit to all involved but with a special thanks for you antohan. It has been great fun and a learning experience. Love it.

 

[antohan]

You have no Frenchy is that first one, so Thuram should stroll in ahead of Andrade IMO. The guys prime was in the 1920's at the end of the day, totally different game back then surely.

Fair point, draft-wise that would work better. It's a fact I kept juggling my options around after the game with NM, thinking if I met Cutch in the final Thuram was far safer, but it meant no Henry and either Pelé or Figueroa dropped so it was a no-brainer. I did consider Boniek as well with the role Stoichkov ended up in in mind, but I don't think most people rate him as highly -or understand his game as much- as I do.

Andrade's attacking contribution would be much superior though, which is important for a dominant side. I would stick with him in real-life.

 

[Theon]

You would being a Uruguayan, need one in there at least! I'd always have Thuram or Cafu, maybe Zanetti simply because they were so dominant when I was growing up. With the nationality rule it makes the decision easy which of the three. Same with Maldini on the left, I'd take him over Facchetti for similar reasons.

 

[antohan]

This was a great draft and credit to all involved but with a special thanks for you antohan. It has been great fun and a learning experience. Love it.

Glad you enjoyed it and stayed involved throughout. It was a real shame that you got such a tough matchup to begin with

 

[antohan]

You would being a Uruguayan, need one in there at least! I'd always have Thuram or Cafu, maybe Zanetti simply because they were so dominant when I was growing up. With the nationality rule it makes the decision easy which of the three. Same with Maldini on the left, I'd take him over Facchetti for similar reasons.

Notice I dropped Andrade the moment the nationality rule was relaxed. It would be Andrade or Thuram and based on all I have read, heard and seen I would go Andrade.

It's not just me being Uruguayan, those pesky Thuram countrymen themselves rate him as the 10th best player to have graced the World Cup up to 1990. I doubt they would have shot Thuram up there on the back of 1998, good as he was in it. Sure, he is probably not at 10th once you include the World Cups since 1990 but it is extremely unlikely Lilian Thuram is among those surpassing him.

Re: Maldini, you must have changed your mind a bit after reading some of the stuff Skorenzy and I posted, surely. At least that mental gap must have narrowed (and you must be able to see Maldini was nowhere near as effective going forward).

But yeah, I understand recent players you grew up watching filling you with more confidence, it's not just emotional but rational behaviour!

 

[EDogen]

Glad you enjoyed it and stayed involved throughout. It was a real shame that you got such a tough matchup to begin with

Yeah it was great all the way, even though I enjoyed the drafting part the most. Yeah with a little bit of luck I could have gone through further and then who knows.

 

[Thisistheone]

Great draft and a top effort from Anto especially.

Definitely wait a while for the next one but I'll be up for it again and have a few ideas. And to give others a chance of playing I don't mind being an assistant to someone.

 

[Theon]

Notice I dropped Andrade the moment the nationality rule was relaxed. It would be Andrade or Thuram and based on all I have read, heard and seen I would go Andrade.

It's not just me being Uruguayan, those pesky Thuram countrymen themselves rate him as the 10th best player to have graced the World Cup up to 1990. I doubt they would have shot Thuram up there on the back of 1998, good as he was in it. Sure, he is probably not at 10th once you include the World Cups since 1990 but it is extremely unlikely Lilian Thuram is among those surpassing him.

Re: Maldini, you must have changed your mind a bit after reading some of the stuff Skorenzy and I posted, surely. At least that mental gap must have narrowed (and you must be able to see Maldini was nowhere near as effective going forward).

But yeah, I understand recent players you grew up watching filling you with more confidence, it's not just emotional but rational behaviour!

I think you are putting way too much emphasis on that magazine. It's a wierd list and I'm not even sure on the criteria. Cruyff is only at 20th, does that mean Andrade is better than Cruyff? Platini isn't even on the list. Thuram is the best defensive right back I've ever seen, I'd only have Maldini ahead of him in that respect. Obviously Cafu offers far more in attack, but as a defender Thuram was incredible.

No Skorenzy's post highlighting Facchetti's goals was interesting but it didn't change my opinion on him, I always knew he was better in attack than Maldini.

 

[antohan]

I think you are putting way too much emphasis on that magazine. It's a wierd list and I'm not even sure on the criteria. Cruyff is only at 20th, does that mean Andrade is better than Cruyff? Platini isn't even on the list.

It's entirely about World Cup level performances and yes, they ARE saying Andrade's performance in 1930 was more significant than Cruyff's in 1974. No idea how they make that sort of call and not saying it makes Andrade better than Cruyff, just a very very good player, quite clearly.

If you don't like that take the IFFHS ranking, he is 29th on that, ahead of Franco Baresi at 32nd Lilian Thuram never did anything worthy of getting him anywhere close to that sort of company.

Did you read this quote on my player profiles?

France brought him to the limelight. The nickname "The Black Marvel" was coined after he entangled and captivated the gaul stands with his bewitching play. A polished technique, his feline movement across the pitch, a sense of positioning and timing which allowed him to be in the right place at the right time to avoid a goal, even when the ball had already beaten the keeper. He nullified his rival -whoever that was-; and played his way upfield with a perfect dribble; passed the ball to the centimetre; and defended "from head to toe".

A complete player. A few years ago, a group of reputable critics had a roundtable to determine Uruguay's Best Ever XI and he was undisputed as a right half-back, but also picked as centre-half, and was in with a shout for his latter days as a forward when his pace was gone but his ability on the ball wasn't.

His burst into the Parisian scene was followed by the triumphant campaigns in Amsterdam and Montevideo. In the seven years between 1923 and 1930 he defended the sky blue 43 times, losing only three games and in all the major finals not once did a rival goal originate on his side of the pitch

*Raúl Barbero was at the 1930 World Cup and edited the first World Cup magazine while still a wouldbe journalist. In 1935 he starts doing it professionally and goes on to chronicle every World Cup from 1950 to 1982, including the 1966 one as the commentator on the BBCs Spanish-language World Cup broadcast

This is from someone who clearly loves and knows his football, has seen him in the flesh, but also has been at every World Cup from 1930 to 1982 (bar the 34 and 38 ones). He is incidentally, the reason FIFA have a photo and first hand account of the very first goal ever scored in World Cups!

Again, I understand people preferring the tangibility of what they have seen and voting based on that. What I don't understand is putting a player down or claiming he is worse than another on that basis.

No Skorenzy's post highlighting Facchetti's goals was interesting but it didn't change my opinion on him, I always knew he was better in attack than Maldini.

And thus better suited for a dominant side!

 

[Theon]

Ahh right, only World Cup performances, missed that for some reason. That explains the Platini exclusion I guess. Still, it's a wierd list on some pretty narrow criteria, I mean Andrade only played 4 games in the World Cup. I'm not playing Andrade down, it's just based on what I can go off I wouldn't pick him ahead of Thuram, who like I have said has only been outperformed by Maldini defensively in my lifetime.

If you weren't allowed to make those judgements then an All Time team would be filled with players from the 1920's. Anyone who tried to pick a different player would be met with the rebuttal you just offered me, 'how can you say he is better when you haven't seen Andrade'. You have Yashin ahead of Ricardo Zamora.. How can you do that Antohan? You haven't seen Zamora play.

 

[antohan]

If you weren't allowed to make those judgements then an All Time team would be filled with players from the 1920's. Anyone who tried to pick a different player would be met with the rebuttal you just offered me, 'how can you say he is better when you haven't seen Andrade'. You have Yashin ahead of Ricardo Zamora.. How can you do that Antohan? You haven't seen Zamora play.

I said earlier "heard, read or seen" but can't be bothered to write all three words every time. No one in their right mind would try argue Zamora's case ahead of Yashin.

I wouldn't expect you to pick or vote Andrade over Thuram, clearly, as much or pretty much all you know is based on my say so, that really is very limited by comparison to your knowledge of Thuram. I've always held the view people shouldn't pick players they don't feel comfortable/know enough about, except as an excuse to research (like MJJ did).

I would expect you to respect him though and part of that is not calling him the worse player that Thuram when several objective independent rankings indicate it's not just my say so!

 

[Theon]

I said earlier "heard, read or seen" but can't be bothered to write all three words every time. No one in their right mind would try argue Zamora's case ahead of Yashin.

I wouldn't expect you to pick or vote Andrade over Thuram, clearly, as much or pretty much all you know is based on my say so, that really is very limited by comparison to your knowledge of Thuram. I've always held the view people shouldn't pick players they don't feel comfortable/know enough about, except as an excuse to research (like MJJ did).

I would expect you to respect him though and part of that is not calling him the worse player that Thuram when several objective independent rankings indicate it's not just my say so!

You are just saying that because you haven't seen him and aren't Spanish. Forget Yashin because he is pretty undisputed, but consider Schmeichel. You could never say he is better than Zamora according to you, as you haven't seen Zamora play and the IFFHS who you keep quoting have Zamora as higher ranked than Schmeichel. It's ludicrous.

Several independant ranking don't have him ahead at all. The only one you quoted is the wierd ranking based on his 4 games in the 1930 world cup, that has him ahead of Puskas, Cruyff, Di Steffano, Didi etc. It means feck all. Not only that, but Thuram wasn't even fecking eligible because it only went up to 1990! Regardless, I could easily find links that say Andrade is below the likes of Thuram and Zanetti.

The way you are viewing this is heavily weighted towards over-valuing older players. It's like you present an assumption that they are better that needs to be refuted.

 

[antohan]

Theon, you've missed the point in one of my previous posts. France Football (the one behind all the Ballon d'Or awards) have him as 10th in World Cups. IFFHS has him 29th ever, including off-WC. That's TWO independent rankings which are as reputable as any can be. Point me in the direction of a reputable body that has Thuram ahead of Andrade before questioning the two widely accepted ones to begin with!

And no, I have no solid basis to say Schmeichel is better than Zamora. I would prefer Schmeichel much like you prefer Thuram. I first heard of Zamora before Schmeichel became a pro but seen and taken little interest in him, he may well have been better for all I know.

 

[Cutch]

I would wait a bit before starting a new one. Voter fatigue and all...

And I better not miss the registration window this time.

I'm definately suffering from that right now! Its been tough goin. Some amount of random football watched the last couple of weeks!

 

[Cutch]

What players have you's learnt more about as a result of this draft? Have to say, from researching John Charles, the man was a phenomenon. Incredible how highly regarded he was in Italy, even more so than in Britain. I also hadn't appreciated how good Baresi was until i watched more footage of him. I seen him more towards the tail-end of his career.

 

[antohan]

Charles was one I had nailed down for a spot, he was going to go as my 5th or 6th pick but you got there a few picks before I had the chance

Figueroa-Charles

I have found out about a few players I hadn't heard of, but not too impressed/or warmed much to any of them. It's getting to know some other posters and discovering some real gems out there that added the most value for me.

The one player that I did get more familiar with was obviously Vasovic, who I had a basic knowledge of but not much more, and the one to grow the most in me was Facchetti. I already rated him very highly, but I spent an hour watching that documentary "Il Capitano", all in fecking Italian but worth every minute. Immense player.

 

[antohan]

I thought the team of the tournament thing would spark more debate, managers making the case for some of their players to be in it, or commenting on the ones of theirs who got on...

Fatigue has set in indeed.

 

[Stobzilla]

There is little to say when it's been pretty much nailed. My team would of included all of my players and none of the ones you picked (aside from the times that you picked my players) but other than that, it was spot on.

 

[Isotope]

I'd have Thuram as RB or Maldini as LB. I prefer fullback pair of one better at attack, and the other side on defence.

Also a slight change in attack:

van Basten
Pele
Best------------Maradona​

I'd love to see Pele has more freedom behind a pure striker. Puskas may fit better, but then I prefer van Basten that I've watched a lot more.

 

[TheReligion]

Whens the next draft

I am making a return to management

 

[antohan]

There is little to say when it's been pretty much nailed. My team would of included all of my players and none of the ones you picked (aside from the times that you picked my players) but other than that, it was spot on.

Anyway, the idea was that, as with other XIs, people could question them. With sensible structured arguments, of course

I'd have Thuram as RB or Maldini as LB. I prefer fullback pair of one better at attack, and the other side on defence.

Maldini's record was 2 played, 2 lost. No chance he would make it. Thuram and Cafú was a close call. Similar records (1 win, 1 lost), but Cafú has the edge on two accounts:

1. Dan would have certainly picked him if it weren't for the nationality rule, while I wouldn't have and didn't pick Thuram unless I had four picks from NM.
2. Cafú was not just the standout player in Stobzilla's back four but also made a significant controbution to his attack. Thuram was nowhere near as significant for NMs side. Did his bit, but wasn't a cornerstone the way Cafú was.

Also a slight change in attack:

van Basten
Pele
Best------------Maradona​

I'd love to see Pele has more freedom behind a pure striker. Puskas may fit better, but then I prefer van Basten that I've watched a lot more.

At the expense of Maradona's freedom and best impact? Cristiano also leaves the pitch... I wouldn't.

 

[KM]

It would have been really drab without the Nationality rule as suggested by TR. I am actually playing one in another forum which is an all out All Time draft, no restrictions and every manager barring a couple who are playing players out of positions have pretty much flawless teams and there is no scope for any debate in there. Glad that we had this rule.

We are playing "the no restrictions" in the newbies.

 

[MJJ]

Enjoyed the draft, thanks for hosting in anto. Meazza was the one player that really impressed me the most and varela.

 

[antohan]

We are playing "the no restrictions" in the newbies.

How is that going/working out?

Enjoyed the draft, thanks for hosting in anto. Meazza was the one player that really impressed me the most and varela.

Yeah, I enjoyed revisiting Meazza when the whole inside question came up. It's what prompted me to dust off my old "History of the World Cup" collection, written by Barbé (the chap I mention above in the Andrade posts).

Have been re-reading it and loving every bit of it. The guy writes it like a true fan based on how things were for him at the time. You have to remember there was no cable TV so for a South American journalist it was very much a case of showing up every four years and finding out what had happened in World Football.

For every World Cup he starts by telling you what he expected to see, what he heard from other journalists about other teams and their key players, then you get what he wrote on the games at the time and what his takeaways were, profiling the best players. Brilliant read.

The whole run up to 1958 by Brazil is very interesting, it wasn't a given that Pelé would go, let alone play, and was almost left out of the squad before travelling to Sweden due to injury. What I didn't take notice of reading this so many years ago was he himself went up to the manager and confessed he wasn't sure he would make it and maybe he should consider taking someone else who would help make Brazil champions. Incredible maturity from a 17 year old.

In his runup to 1958 he mentions the impact of Munich, after the tourno concludes the withering of the Rose is complete, expects nothing in '62 but comes out of it noticing a young Jimmy Greaves for some flashes of real top quality and delighted Charlton has been switched to a playmaking role rather than his previous winger incarnation. I'm getting to '66 now.

BTW Stob, he raves about Voronin and Masopust, who he rates higher than a Bozsik he had been full of praise for. Fully agrees with him later being awarded the European Footballer of the Year in 1962, he couldn't see anyone coming close based on the tournament.

Glad you were impressed by Varela, hope you got an accurate picture of what exactly was that made him such a Football Great.

 

[Thisistheone]

Anto, (or anyone else) can you recommend any good books?

I've recently bought

"The Ball is Round" a History of Football
"Tor" History of German Football
"Nobody ever says thank you" Brian Clough

Mainly interested in European football history. A book that maybe goes through Europe during the 1960's to present day, discussing the great teams, players and manager's, perhaps?

Inverting the Pyramid is one of my favourite football books so anything similar to that also welcomed!

 

[Gio]

Yups, he was thinking all-time England, which looked like a great opportunity for research, but games would hardly attract more than a handful of voters. It would be some randomer deciding games more often than not. I remember once there was some chap no one knew anything about, never commented on anything, but people kept losing games by one vote and it was always his.

I suggested he picked something more along the lines of the one done in the newbies recently, don't remember what the date of birth bracket was but you had a nationality AND CL-winning constraint so it was mostly players from the CL era. That sounded like fun when Fergus' PM'd me about it.

Both ideas sound quite interesting. The all-time concept is never going to be wholly successful though as opposing managers were always quick to pose the question 'would he cut it in modern football', a feeling that was presumably played out in the voting. It's probably the most enjoyable though during the drafting process, where managers are finding out about players they previously knew little about. Moreno for example for me, and I've started re-reading Puskas' book as there's a lot of insight in there about the Magyars and the likes of Bozsik as well.

 

[Gio]

Anto, (or anyone else) can you recommend any good books?

I've recently bought

"The Ball is Round" a History of Football
"Tor" History of German Football
"Nobody ever says thank you" Brian Clough

Mainly interested in European football history. A book that maybe goes through Europe during the 1960's to present day, discussing the great teams, players and manager's, perhaps?

Inverting the Pyramid is one of my favourite football books so anything similar to that also welcomed!

There's a few similar to 'Tor' that profile a certain league or club. A couple that I've quite enjoyed would be the ABC one on Cruyff and McIlvanney on Football, a selection of his work over the last 45 years.

 

[antohan]

Moreno for example for me

It was a crying shame that Argie generation coincided with no World Cups being played. No one who saw them play has any doubt they would have walked them.

Reminds me of another story from 1950. In the run up to the final, a bunch of Brazilian and European journalists wanted to interview Varela but he wasn't keen, even with someone from the Uruguayan FA offering to act as a translator.

He turned and walked away while the journalists were being told, but kept hearing the name Zizinho behind him. Clearly a key question was how Uruguay planned to deal with Zizinho, who had been destroying all before him (Ademir was the one scoring but Zizinho the dangerous one).

He turned around and told the FA chap "Tell those Japs that I've had to deal with Moreno. Zizinho won't be a problem". He turned around and left.

 

[Thisistheone]

There's a few similar to 'Tor' that profile a certain league or club. A couple that I've quite enjoyed would be the ABC one on Cruyff and McIlvanney on Football, a selection of his work over the last 45 years.

Cheers Gio, will check them out.

 

[MJJ]

How is that going/working out?



Yeah, I enjoyed revisiting Meazza when the whole inside question came up. It's what prompted me to dust off my old "History of the World Cup" collection, written by Barbé (the chap I mention above in the Andrade posts).

Have been re-reading it and loving every bit of it. The guy writes it like a true fan based on how things were for him at the time. You have to remember there was no cable TV so for a South American journalist it was very much a case of showing up every four years and finding out what had happened in World Football.

For every World Cup he starts by telling you what he expected to see, what he heard from other journalists about other teams and their key players, then you get what he wrote on the games at the time and what his takeaways were, profiling the best players. Brilliant read.

The whole run up to 1958 by Brazil is very interesting, it wasn't a given that Pelé would go, let alone play, and was almost left out of the squad before travelling to Sweden due to injury. What I didn't take notice of reading this so many years ago was he himself went up to the manager and confessed he wasn't sure he would make it and maybe he should consider taking someone else who would help make Brazil champions. Incredible maturity from a 17 year old.

In his runup to 1958 he mentions the impact of Munich, after the tourno concludes the withering of the Rose is complete, expects nothing in '62 but comes out of it noticing a young Jimmy Greaves for some flashes of real top quality and delighted Charlton has been switched to a playmaking role rather than his previous winger incarnation. I'm getting to '66 now.

BTW Stob, he raves about Voronin and Masopust, who he rates higher than a Bozsik he had been full of praise for. Fully agrees with him later being awarded the European Footballer of the Year in 1962, he couldn't see anyone coming close based on the tournament.

Glad you were impressed by Varela, hope you got an accurate picture of what exactly was that made him such a Football Great.

Yeah I think so after researching him and reading your posts about him, am glad he was like that as its his character which I like a lot and the main reason why I wanted him in my team.

 

[antohan]

Anto, (or anyone else) can you recommend any good books?

Not what you are looking for (Europe since 60s) but "Football in sun and shadow" by Eduardo Galeano is a very good read. The author is best known for his left-wing writing (e.g."The open veins of Latin America") but a huge football fan and wrote this as a collection of short stories on certain players and the different World Cups.

It's quite enjoyable until he gets to the 90s and loses his way raging against FIFA, TV networks, Adidas, Nike, Mastercard, and anyone willing to sponsor football. Some good points on the influence they have and how the game gradually gets ruined in "the periphery" as a result, but completely changes the tone of the book and sours what was quite a splendid read.

Yeah I think so after researching him and reading your posts about him, am glad he was like that as its his character which I like a lot and the main reason why I wanted him in my team.

Good stuff. One thing you maybe haven't noticed, he is giving his back to the cameraman when receiving the trophy. You won't see a picture of him holding it aloft and lapping up the glory, he just picked it up and went to the changing rooms. Upon arriving in Montevideo, he left the airport in disguise.

A less known fact is the Brazilians never picked up their medals, so the Uruguayan FA awarded the gold ones to its authorities and handed the silver ones to the players. Outrageous . My grandfather didn't agree so he offered his to Varela, who refused it as the others weren't getting one, and all the other players refused to have it if Varela wasn't getting one. So he handed it back and God knows where it ended up.

Moron, I disagreed with the last bit, I wouldn't mind having it, if only to stop one of the other bastards ending up with two. I guess it was better for his own health though, not to have it knocking around the house, it made his blood boil to remember that.

Varela's prize money was just about enough to buy a second hand 1931 Ford T, which got stolen a week later. Prize money and the relationship with the FA would later be a factor casting shadows over the 1954 campaign.

 

[Moby]

Anto, (or anyone else) can you recommend any good books?

I've recently bought

"The Ball is Round" a History of Football
"Tor" History of German Football
"Nobody ever says thank you" Brian Clough

Mainly interested in European football history. A book that maybe goes through Europe during the 1960's to present day, discussing the great teams, players and manager's, perhaps?

Inverting the Pyramid is one of my favourite football books so anything similar to that also welcomed!

Some common suggestions :

La Roja
The Football Men by Simon Kuper
Ajax : The Dutch, The War by Simon Kuper
Behind The Curtain - Travels in Eastern European Football by Jonathan Wilson
The Beautiful Game? by David Conn
Soccernomics by Simon Kuper
Barca - The Making of the Greatest Team in the World by Graham Hunter
Rinus Michels - Team Building
El Classico by Richard Fitzpatrick
Brilliant Oranje - The Neurotic Genius of Dutch Football by David Winner
Football - The Brazilian Way of Life by Alex Bellos
The Anatomy of England - Jonathan Wilson
Calcio - A history of Italian Football by John Foot
Morbo - The Story of Spanish Football by Phil Ball
Bamboo Goalposts by Rowan Simons

 

[Thisistheone]

Some common suggestions :

La Roja
The Football Men by Simon Kuper
Ajax : The Dutch, The War by Simon Kuper
Behind The Curtain - Travels in Eastern European Football by Jonathan Wilson
The Beautiful Game? by David Conn
Soccernomics by Simon Kuper
Barca - The Making of the Greatest Team in the World by Graham Hunter
Rinus Michels - Team Building
El Classico by Richard Fitzpatrick
Brilliant Oranje - The Neurotic Genius of Dutch Football by David Winner
Football - The Brazilian Way of Life by Alex Bellos
The Anatomy of England - Jonathan Wilson
Calcio - A history of Italian Football by John Foot
Morbo - The Story of Spanish Football by Phil Ball
Bamboo Goalposts by Rowan Simons

Lovely stuff Aldo. Cheers for that!

 

[MJJ]

Not what you are looking for (Europe since 60s) but "Football in sun and shadow" by Eduardo Galeano is a very good read. The author is best known for his left-wing writing (e.g."The open veins of Latin America") but a huge football fan and wrote this as a collection of short stories on certain players and the different World Cups.

It's quite enjoyable until he gets to the 90s and loses his way raging against FIFA, TV networks, Adidas, Nike, Mastercard, and anyone willing to sponsor football. Some good points on the influence they have and how the game gradually gets ruined in "the periphery" as a result, but completely changes the tone of the book and sours what was quite a splendid read.



Good stuff. One thing you maybe haven't noticed, he is giving his back to the cameraman when receiving the trophy. You won't see a picture of him holding it aloft and lapping up the glory, he just picked it up and went to the changing rooms. Upon arriving in Montevideo, he left the airport in disguise.

A less known fact is the Brazilians never picked up their medals, so the Uruguayan FA awarded the gold ones to its authorities and handed the silver ones to the players. Outrageous . My grandfather didn't agree so he offered his to Varela, who refused it as the others weren't getting one, and all the other players refused to have it if Varela wasn't getting one. So he handed it back and God knows where it ended up.

Moron, I disagreed with the last bit, I wouldn't mind having it, if only to stop one of the other bastards ending up with two. I guess it was better for his own health though, not to have it knocking around the house, it made his blood boil to remember that.

Varela's prize money was just about enough to buy a second hand 1931 Ford T, which got stolen a week later. Prize money and the relationship with the FA would later be a factor casting shadows over the 1954 campaign.

I hadnt noticed that and and didnt realize that it was on purpose. Just figured that they didnt take enough pictures.

That team spirit is so great and awesome though and it must be so annoying thinking that you could have had one of the medals from the worldcup but for one man's stubbornness.

 

[antohan]

it must be so annoying thinking that you could have had one of the medals from the worldcup but for one man's stubbornness.

Leaving aside the fact I wouldn't even remotely deserve to have it, yes, I agree

The worst thing in that sense is that the outcome was all the FA chaps wound up with a gold medal, one with two, all the players with a silver one, and my grandad with none

 

[Gio]

Not what you are looking for (Europe since 60s) but "Football in sun and shadow" by Eduardo Galeano is a very good read. The author is best known for his left-wing writing (e.g."The open veins of Latin America") but a huge football fan and wrote this as a collection of short stories on certain players and the different World Cups.

It's quite enjoyable until he gets to the 90s and loses his way raging against FIFA, TV networks, Adidas, Nike, Mastercard, and anyone willing to sponsor football. Some good points on the influence they have and how the game gradually gets ruined in "the periphery" as a result, but completely changes the tone of the book and sours what was quite a splendid read.

Thanks, that's one I've not read so will get it ordered.