All-time tiki taki XI

[Physiocrat]

Skizzo attempted a Barca tiki-taki XI in the P&G Draft which got me thinking as to how to upgrade it especially with the left and right forward roles (Anto commented that Luis Enrique and Simonsen weren't suited to the style; they were too direct)

I take this to be the pre-eminent Barca tiki-taki side from the CL final against Utd.

Pedro----Messi----Villa
-------Iniesta---Xavi------
----------Busquets--------
Abidal-Pique-Masch-Alves
------------V.Valdes----------------

Undoubtedly Messi and Xaviesta must stay and Neuer comes in as the sweeper keeper. Apart from that I'm not entirely sure.

I think the elder Pele could work in the left or right forward roles as he's hardworking, can play possession and provides that bit of directness the system needs.

In defense you could have the elder Krol at left back too. There aren't that many LB who are defensively astute who are good enough on the ball.

Thoughts anyone?

 

[P-Nut]

Skizzo attempted a Barca tiki-taki XI in the P&G Draft which got me thinking as to how to upgrade it especially with the left and right forward roles (Anto commented that Luis Enrique and Simonsen weren't suited to the style; they were too direct)

I take this to be the pre-eminent Barca tiki-taki side from the CL final against Utd.

Pedro----Messi----Villa
-------Iniesta---Xavi------
----------Busquets--------
Abidal-Pique-Masch-Alves
------------V.Valdes----------------

Undoubtedly Messi and Xaviesta must stay and Neuer comes in as the sweeper keeper. Apart from that I'm not entirely sure.

I think the elder Pele could work in the left or right forward roles as he's hardworking, can play possession and provides that bit of directness the system needs.

In defense you could have the elder Krol at left back too. There aren't that many LB who are defensively astute who are good enough on the ball.

Thoughts anyone?

Neuer
Zanetti Beckenbeur Moore Breitner
Pirlo
Xavi Iniesta
RW Messi Nedved

I can't think of anyone for the RW and Breitner gets in purely on being able to play in midfield and tuck in.

 

[Physiocrat]

Neuer
Zanetti Beckenbeur Moore Breitner
Pirlo
Xavi Iniesta
RW Messi Nedved

I can't think of anyone for the RW and Breitner gets in purely on being able to play in midfield and tuck in.

Nedved is a great shout actually. Not sure about Pirlo as he's too much on an individualist for that midfield.

 

[P-Nut]

Nedved is a great shout actually. Not sure about Pirlo as he's too much on an individualist for that midfield.

I know what you mean, but under instruction to just rotate possession there probably aren't many better.

I considered Redondo for that role but again he's not quite a perfect fit. Guardiola would likely be ideal.

 

[idmanager]

Busquets role should go to one of the pre war DMs who were great anchors and playmakers from deep. Someone like Monti. Good on the ball and a proper DM. Smistik and Ocwirk are other good ones. I am sure I am missing some more.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

No Busquets, no Tiki Taka.

 

[Physiocrat]

No Busquets, no Tiki Taka.

I know you're back massive Busquets fan but do you not think Bastian or Redondo could do what he did but with greater longer passing range and physicality?

On anothet point, how important was Alves to tiki taki? Given the lack of heading in the side a direct full-backs like Alves doesn't seem the most natural fit. I'm thinking a more cerebral full-backs like Brehme would suit the system better.

Also has Pep ever done an all-time XI like Cruyff did?

 

[Šjor Bepo]

I know you're back massive Busquets fan but do you not think Bastian or Redondo could do what he did but with greater longer passing range and physicality?

You can put them there, team might still be great but that wouldnt be Tiki Taka. Combination of quality and most important selflessness makes Busquets unreplaceable in that system, at least in my opinion.

 

[Enigma_87]

--Nedved----Messi----Best
---------Iniesta---Xavi------
------------Redondo--------
Bobby Carlos--Koeman--Figueroa-Alves
---------------Neuer----------------

Something like this perhaps.

Could replace Koeman with a shinier name but his presence suits the system to a tee.

 

[Sonnet XVII]

I would also retain the Messi-Iniesta-Xavi-Busquets rhombus in full — no point in fiddling with something that's not broken — and even though Redondo makes sense on paper, he was more individualistic than Busquets and the player Madrid's midfield was structured around, and not the 4th wheel. Also wary of Guardiola because he had more of a high impact role under Cruyff, and might throw the original quartet's balance out of whack. Maybe Hierro...not 100% sold on the idea, but he might work. Alves doesn't need replacing either, IMO — not the most accomplished defender, yes, but I'm not sure his final offensive impact can be replicated by others...he really was crucial to the system's success.

As regards some of the other positions...

Spoiler

Pedro: would replace him with Littbarski — not the most illustrious name in an All-Time context, perhaps, but Pierre was underrated, and similarly quick and nifty and evasive while boasting good statistical numbers at Köln (peak of ~50 league goals in 3 Bundesliga seasons), and could easily function as a cog in the machine type system player around Messi.

Villa: Stoichkov is a straightforward choice all things considered. Experienced in a similar setup as well.

Abidal: intuitively, Ruud Krol.

Piqué: had a fair bit of freedom wrt. building from the back — reckon Scirea would relish playing in this setup as the deep conductor.

Puyol: Figueroa would be massive upgrade — not as mental, but rugged and powerful and comfortable on the ball.

 

[harms]

Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets and Alves are a must. You can put someone like Rijkaard or Voronin there, who can do something similar in possession and add something else defensively, but I doubt that they’ll be an upgrade on Busquets due to the chemistry between that midfield trio.

Depends on what do you call tiki taka, of course, since even Pep is on the record with

I hate tiki-taka - it's rubbish and completely pointless

Edit: great minds, @Sonnet XVII

 

[Joga Bonito]

--Czibor----Messi----Gullit
---------Iniesta---Xavi------
------------Voronin--------
N.Santos--Rijkaard--Figueroa-C.Alberto
---------------Chilavert----------------

Couple of changes

Rijkaard & Figueroa - Both excellent on the ball without being too domineering. Scirea in a high line is a question mark but he has the tactical nous to make it work potentially. Baresi sounds great but did have a penchant for long and somewhat adventurous yet accurate passes (going against Barca keeping it short and crisp at the back). Same for Moore. Also both CBs are athletic and would be at home in a high line.

N.Santos - C.Alberto for a more cerebral approach. Ideally Brehme would be great on the right but can see Carlos Alberto working a treat with Gullit.

Voronin for that DM role with positional discipline and added steel. Busquets would be ideal but I'd prefer some more bite to the midfield without compromising too much on ball playing ability.

Czibor - Gullit might be a tad too direct but they both bring the right balance between the collective tiki taka link up play and offensive individualistic thrust.

 

[Indnyc]

Busquets role should go to one of the pre war DMs who were great anchors and playmakers from deep. Someone like Monti. Good on the ball and a proper DM. Smistik and Ocwirk are other good ones. I am sure I am missing some more.

Bozsik maybe as well

 

[idmanager]

Bozsik maybe as well

I think Bozsik would have the same defensive problems as Pirlo.

FWIW I dont rate Redondo in the Busquets role as well. Redondo deserved a bit of freedom to express himself with his dribbling and surges forward. Something which is not required in tiki taka. The reason Busquets worked so well is because he did the simple things right and was comfortable operating in tight spaces

 

[idmanager]

Voronin for that DM role with positional discipline and added steel. Busquets would be ideal but I'd prefer some more bite to the midfield without compromising too much on ball playing ability.

Voronin is a great shout too. Not sure how good he would be in tight spaces though. I know he was technically sound but reactions in tight spaces, I am not sure. Something which is essential in tiki taka

 

[Moby]

I would also retain the Messi-Iniesta-Xavi-Busquets rhombus in full — no point in fiddling with something that's not broken — and even though Redondo makes sense on paper, he was more individualistic than Busquets and the player Madrid's midfield was structured around, and not the 4th wheel. Also wary of Guardiola because he had more of a high impact role under Cruyff, and might throw the original quartet's balance out of whack. Maybe Hierro...not 100% sold on the idea, but he might work. Alves doesn't need replacing either, IMO — not the most accomplished defender, yes, but I'm not sure his final offensive impact can be replicated by others...he really was crucial to the system's success.

As regards some of the other positions...

Spoiler

Pedro: would replace him with Littbarski — not the most illustrious name in an All-Time context, perhaps, but Pierre was underrated, and similarly quick and nifty and evasive while boasting good statistical numbers at Köln (peak of ~50 league goals in 3 Bundesliga seasons), and could easily function as a cog in the machine type system player around Messi.

Villa: Stoichkov is a straightforward choice all things considered. Experienced in a similar setup as well.

Abidal: intuitively, Ruud Krol.

Piqué: had a fair bit of freedom wrt. building from the back — reckon Scirea would relish playing in this setup as the deep conductor.

Puyol: Figueroa would be massive upgrade — not as mental, but rugged and powerful and comfortable on the ball.

Quality stuff. Endorse this 100%.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

With no Pep Barca players:

 

[MJJ]

With no Pep Barca players:

Wasnt schuster too individualistic for a barca system? I would put scholes there before him.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Wasnt schuster too individualistic for a barca system? I would put scholes there before him.

True, it was a gamble. Would have preferred Modric there.

 

[Gio]

Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets and Alves are a must. You can put someone like Rijkaard or Voronin there, who can do something similar in possession and add something else defensively, but I doubt that they’ll be an upgrade on Busquets due to the chemistry between that midfield trio.

Depends on what do you call tiki taka, of course, since even Pep is on the record with


Edit: great minds, @Sonnet XVII

Yes. Depends on if this is a Pep Barca upgrade maximising the impact of the central quartet in a 4-3-3, or a wholescale tiki-taka effort, which might be something more akin to Spain 2010 with a 4-6-0. @Physiocrat?

 

[MJJ]

True, it was a gamble. Would have preferred Modric there.

Modric is a better shout actually.

 

[Don Alfredo]

With no Pep Barca players:

I very much like that effort. I get why you chose Paul McGrath, but was his passing really good enough to beat the press constantly, switch sides accurately etc.?

I have no idea what his passing looks like, I only ever saw videos of him defending all the time.

 

[Physiocrat]

Yes. Depends on if this is a Pep Barca upgrade maximising the impact of the central quartet in a 4-3-3, or a wholescale tiki-taka effort, which might be something more akin to Spain 2010 with a 4-6-0. @Physiocrat?

I was going for a Barca Pep line-up to maximise Xaviesta and Messi but it would be interesting to see what people could do with the Spain 2010 or even 2012 side.

I see Stoichkov has been suggested as a replacement for Villa but wasn't he a bit too direct for this improved Barca side? I get the impression he'd become impatient in this system which is why I thought Pele in an inside left role may be a better fit.

@Sonnet XVII Great shout with Littbarski

 

[harms]

I see Stoichkov has been suggested as a replacement for Villa but wasn't he a bit too direct for this improved Barca side? I get the impression he'd become impatient in this system which is why I thought Pele in an inside left role may be a better fit.

Peak Pelé was the ultimate direct player though.

 

[Physiocrat]

Peak Pelé was the ultimate direct player though.

He was but I think the 1970 Pele could work well.

 

[Ecstatic]

Good luck to challenge them in terms of ball possession