[Champ]

Chump…not single positive post in this thread from you. Any attempt is riddled with criticism. Agenda.

Again, what is incorrect about my post?

 

[Red00012]

Been poor the past few games, gives an opportunity for someone else to step up to the plate.
Not the end of the world.

Joshua Zirkzee is very slowly bringing us to the end of the world

 

[AgentSmith]

Again, what is incorrect about my post?

"It's not like everything revolves around Amad, others players are equally capable."

This statement was evidently incorrect. Who are the players as capable as Amad?

 

[Posh Red]

"It's not like everything revolves around Amad, others players are equally capable."

This statement was evidently incorrect. Who are the players as capable as Amad?

None of our forwards are, and it’s extremely obvious just from watching our games this season.

 

[Tibs]

We are missing our young king badly

 

[JBG]

None of our forwards are, and it’s extremely obvious just from watching our games this season.

Exactly why when the news about Amads injury broke, I was genuinely devastated. Because I knew that we're fecked attacking wise. Only he and Bruno are able to create something out of nothing and also only ones who seem to be able to score consistently this season.

 

[LeonDion]

Again, what is incorrect about my post?

You

 

[jem]

"It's not like everything revolves around Amad, others players are equally capable."

This statement was evidently incorrect. Who are the players as capable as Amad?

What’s also hilarious is that this same poster goes on about agendas against Garnacho…

 

[Champ]

You

So nothing then.

Thanks for clarifying.

 

[Champ]

What’s also hilarious is that this same poster goes on about agendas against Garnacho…

And yet I'm still waiting to hear what is actually incorrect about what I posted....strange that.

 

[jem]

And yet I'm still waiting to hear what is actually incorrect about what I posted....strange that.

Well the fact that you implied he wouldn't be missed was pretty hard to take seriously; and also the fact that it's hard to find a single post of unqualified praise from you for a player who has scored a hattrick this season, scored the winning goal against City, the tying goal against Liverpool, a brace against PAOK, and has had a number of other good-to-very good performances. Any yet you complain about an agenda against Garnacho, who hasn't come anywhere close to matching Amad's levels this season.

 

[Champ]

Well the fact that you implied he wouldn't be missed was pretty hard to take seriously; and also the fact that it's hard to find a single post of unqualified praise from you for a player who has scored a hattrick this season, scored the winning goal against City, the tying goal against Liverpool, a brace against PAOK, and has had a number of other good-to-very good performances. Any yet you complain about an agenda against Garnacho, who hasn't come anywhere close to matching Amad's levels this season.

So again, nothing I've said is actually untrue.
We are a dysfunctional side with no cohesive attacking thrust, we have had the same attacking threat without Amad as we have had with.
That is very hard to argue against, despite protestations of 'agenda' or variations thereof, which are quite frankly straw man at best.

The simple fact is no one can highlight exactly where what I state is untrue, despite many trying.

Is Amad a good player? Yes. Is he the answer to our prayers? No. Is he the be all and end all of our attacking threat? No, not at all.

 

[simonhch]

So again, nothing I've said is actually untrue.
We are a dysfunctional side with no cohesive attacking thrust, we have had the same attacking threat without Amad as we have had with.
That is very hard to argue against, despite protestations of 'agenda' or variations thereof, which are quite frankly straw man at best.

The simple fact is no one can highlight exactly where what I state is untrue, despite many trying.

Is Amad a good player? Yes. Is he the answer to our prayers? No. Is he the be all and end all of our attacking threat? No, not at all.

There is no doubt that Amad is our most dangerous player, and our most potent attacking threat, but I think as you rightly point out, it’s wrong that we keep talking so fervently about individuals. Players are ultimately malleable and even those most average players can look very very good in the right system. Just like how some very good players can look distinctly average in the wrong system.

It all comes down to the system at the end of the day. And how they work together as a unit. We are definitely poorer for the absence of Amad, but even with Amad the only reason we created chances was because of his individual brilliance, rather than the effectiveness of our team approach. This has been the case since Ten Hag, and now Amorim, have been in charge. There is no discernibly effective pattern to our attacking play, and in such scenarios, even the best players are easily nullified.

 

[Ted Lasso]

We are missing our young king badly

Ironically not just for goals, but some GD hunger on the pitch. Can't think of another United player not in defense that harries the opposition with as much conviction

 

[jem]

So again, nothing I've said is actually untrue.
We are a dysfunctional side with no cohesive attacking thrust, we have had the same attacking threat without Amad as we have had with.
That is very hard to argue against, despite protestations of 'agenda' or variations thereof, which are quite frankly straw man at best.

The simple fact is no one can highlight exactly where what I state is untrue, despite many trying.

Is Amad a good player? Yes. Is he the answer to our prayers? No. Is he the be all and end all of our attacking threat? No, not at all.

Ok so who are the other players who are equally capable as Amad? Perhaps Bruno, but he’s been playing a midfield role lately. So who is equally capable as Amad in the 10 role (or the rwb role for that matter)?

 

[Champ]

Ok so who are the other players who are equally capable as Amad? Perhaps Bruno, but he’s been playing a midfield role lately. So who is equally capable as Amad in the 10 role (or the rwb role for that matter)?

You've answered your own question, Bruno.
He has been out primary goal threat all campaign and will continue to do so.
Garnacho also, whilst not scoring freely, is an attacking threat and has changed games when he has been involved.

Unfortunately we are very light on attacking bodies currently, which ironically has been used as a stick to beat Garnacho with on here yet Amad gets away with any criticism despite similar performances.

 

[jem]

You've answered your own question, Bruno.
He has been out primary goal threat all campaign and will continue to do so.
Garnacho also, whilst not scoring freely, is an attacking threat and has changed games when he has been involved.

Unfortunately we are very light on attacking bodies currently, which ironically has been used as a stick to beat Garnacho with on here yet Amad gets away with any criticism despite similar performances.

There’s been nothing similar in Garnacho’s performances this year and Amad’s - Amad has been far superior. There’s an argument to be made for Bruno, but again you said ‘players’ and your use of the plural very much served to underscore your point that Amad would be easily replaced, which is of course absurd.

 

[Champ]

There’s been nothing similar in Garnacho’s performances this year and Amad’s - Amad has been far superior. There’s an argument to be made for Bruno, but again you said ‘players’ and your use of the plural very much served to underscore your point that Amad would be easily replaced, which is of course absurd.

Both in terms of effectiveness, threat and in terms of any statistical analysis, Garnacho has been up there as our main attacking threat along with Bruno and Amad, so yes by playing Garnacho we have a suitable threat replacing that of any lost by Amad.

Now of course having the two complimenting each other on the pitch would be the preferred choice, but it's churlish and incorrect to say that without Amad we have little to no threat when our two main attacking players are still on the pitch in attacking positions.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Both in terms of effectiveness, threat and in terms of any statistical analysis, Garnacho has been up there as our main attacking threat along with Bruno and Amad, so yes by playing Garnacho we have a suitable threat replacing that of any lost by Amad.

Now of course having the two complimenting each other on the pitch would be the preferred choice, but it's churlish and incorrect to say that without Amad we have little to no threat when our two main attacking players are still on the pitch in attacking positions.

This is just nonsense. They’re different players who threaten in different ways. Even if we assume that Garnacho’s level of performance has been consistently as good as Amad’s (and I’d be shocked if anyone who’s watched both of them this season genuinely believes this) the idea we don’t lose anything in an attacking sense without Amad is bananas.

 

[Godfather]

You've answered your own question, Bruno.
He has been out primary goal threat all campaign and will continue to do so.
Garnacho also, whilst not scoring freely, is an attacking threat and has changed games when he has been involved.

3 goals and 1 assist for Garnacho this season in 26 fecking games. "Not scoring freely". Well that's one way to describe it.
A huge disappointment would be another

 

[didz]

Both in terms of effectiveness, threat and in terms of any statistical analysis, Garnacho has been up there as our main attacking threat along with Bruno and Amad, so yes by playing Garnacho we have a suitable threat replacing that of any lost by Amad.

Now of course having the two complimenting each other on the pitch would be the preferred choice, but it's churlish and incorrect to say that without Amad we have little to no threat when our two main attacking players are still on the pitch in attacking positions.

Garnacho was definitely our most threatening attacker this season under Ten Hag. Since Amorim has come in I don't think he's been anywhere near that, with Amad fortunately stepping in to replace him, before unfortunately becoming painfully irreplaceable in the squad.

 

[LeonDion]

So nothing then.

Thanks for clarifying.

Your post is your opinion. What is categorically wrong is your agenda against Amad. He’s been categorically and infinitely better than your collection of posts implies.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Garnacho was definitely our most threatening attacker this season under Ten Hag. Since Amorim has come in I don't think he's been anywhere near that, with Amad fortunately stepping in to replace him, before unfortunately becoming painfully irreplaceable in the squad.

I think Garnacho’s been basically the same under Amorim as he was under Ten Haag. A real threat (albeit with a bad habit of missing sitters) every time he comes on off the bench but generally underwhelming every time he starts. The reason it feels different is because he’s starting more frequently now our options up front are so diminished.

At a serious football club both him and Amad would be regularly benched for more senior and productive attackers. And they would both be fantastic options to have on the bench. They’re both far too young for us to be as reliant on them as we are. Of the two of them, though, Amad looked a more polished and effective performer throughout this season.

 

[JPRouve]

I think Garnacho’s been basically the same under Amorim as he was under Ten Haag. A real threat (albeit with a bad habit of missing sitters) every time he comes on off the bench but generally underwhelming every time he starts. The reason it feels different is because he’s starting more frequently now our options up front are so diminished.

At a serious football club both him and Amad would be regularly benched for more senior and productive attackers. And they would both be fantastic options to have on the bench. They’re both far too young for us to be as reliant on them as we are. Of the two of them, though, Amad looked a more polished and effective performer throughout this season.

Amad would probably start for a number of top clubs because he has playmaking abilities and he is an asset during defensive transition, on top of that he can inconsistently reach a very high level, so from a development standpoint starting him often makes a lot of sense even for a top team. Garnacho is just weird, at this point in time he lacks some basic things, he isn't a great passer, dribbler or finisher, he isn't particularly fast either but he has the ability to beat his man 1v1 which has value but in a top team I think that he is a perennial squad option, the kind of player that you sub in to change a game or finish a struggling team. I see him like a Carrasco.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Amad would probably start for a number of top clubs because he has playmaking abilities and he is an asset during defensive transition, on top of that he can inconsistently reach a very high level, so from a development standpoint starting him often makes a lot of sense even for a top team. Garnacho is just weird, at this point in time he lacks some basic things, he isn't a great passer, dribbler or finisher, he isn't particularly fast either but he has the ability to beat his man 1v1 which has value but in a top team I think that he is a perennial squad option, the kind of player that you sub in to change a game or finish a struggling team. I see him like a Carrasco.

Yeah, I wouldn’t disagree with that. Amad certainly much closer to being a regular starter. But I do wonder if his youthful inconsistency means he would still be on the bench quite often at a more successful club. He’s probably not a whole lot better than the likes of, say, Jota or Trossard. Or even Harvey Elliot?! He just stands out massively amongst our shower of shite.

 

[Champ]

This is just nonsense. They’re different players who threaten in different ways. Even if we assume that Garnacho’s level of performance has been consistently as good as Amad’s (and I’d be shocked if anyone who’s watched both of them this season genuinely believes this) the idea we don’t lose anything in an attacking sense without Amad is bananas.

Do you think we've lost attacking threat without Amad when the system went currently employ is heavily weighted towards a defensive nature?

I certainly don't, statistically again we have been looking the same if not slightly higher in terms of shots/shots on target, goals scored and expected goals, especially using the recent Fulham games as a benchmark.

Our strongest side in terms of attacks has been out left, where Garnacho plays, more shots and chances have been creates from the left hand side, this is also despite not having a natural left sided defender playing behind.

Now admittedly that isn't exactly high praise for our striking options, we have been lackluster all campaign, but most of this is down to the system used and players not looking comfortable playing this way, and it's arguable to state that Amad is more of a fit to the system than Garnacho, yet Garnacho has only scored two goals less than Amad in all comps.

 

[Marwood]

Do you think we've lost attacking threat without Amad when the system went currently employ is heavily weighted towards a defensive nature?

I certainly don't, statistically again we have been looking the same if not slightly higher in terms of shots/shots on target, goals scored and expected goals, especially using the recent Fulham games as a benchmark.

Our strongest side in terms of attacks has been out left, where Garnacho plays, more shots and chances have been creates from the left hand side, this is also despite not having a natural left sided defender playing behind.

Now admittedly that isn't exactly high praise for our striking options, we have been lackluster all campaign, but most of this is down to the system used and players not looking comfortable playing this way, and it's arguable to state that Amad is more of a fit to the system than Garnacho, yet Garnacho has only scored two goals less than Amad in all comps.

Would we miss Garnacho if he was injured?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Do you think we've lost attacking threat without Amad when the system went currently employ is heavily weighted towards a defensive nature?

I certainly don't, statistically again we have been looking the same if not slightly higher in terms of shots/shots on target, goals scored and expected goals, especially using the recent Fulham games as a benchmark.

Our strongest side in terms of attacks has been out left, where Garnacho plays, more shots and chances have been creates from the left hand side, this is also despite not having a natural left sided defender playing behind.

Now admittedly that isn't exactly high praise for our striking options, we have been lackluster all campaign, but most of this is down to the system used and players not looking comfortable playing this way, and it's arguable to state that Amad is more of a fit to the system than Garnacho, yet Garnacho has only scored two goals less than Amad in all comps.

Yes, definitely.

 

[Smores]

Do you think we've lost attacking threat without Amad when the system went currently employ is heavily weighted towards a defensive nature?

I certainly don't, statistically again we have been looking the same if not slightly higher in terms of shots/shots on target, goals scored and expected goals, especially using the recent Fulham games as a benchmark.

Our strongest side in terms of attacks has been out left, where Garnacho plays, more shots and chances have been creates from the left hand side, this is also despite not having a natural left sided defender playing behind.

Now admittedly that isn't exactly high praise for our striking options, we have been lackluster all campaign, but most of this is down to the system used and players not looking comfortable playing this way, and it's arguable to state that Amad is more of a fit to the system than Garnacho, yet Garnacho has only scored two goals less than Amad in all comps.

You could have just wrote Garnacho shoots more because that's the depth of your analysis here.

The reality is Amad scores more despite less shots, is more involved in build up and has more assists. But Garnacho shoots and misses more so somehow that's equal, let's bring Antony back so he can have 10 wild chances a game as well.

 

[didz]

I think Garnacho’s been basically the same under Amorim as he was under Ten Haag. A real threat (albeit with a bad habit of missing sitters) every time he comes on off the bench but generally underwhelming every time he starts. The reason it feels different is because he’s starting more frequently now our options up front are so diminished.

At a serious football club both him and Amad would be regularly benched for more senior and productive attackers. And they would both be fantastic options to have on the bench. They’re both far too young for us to be as reliant on them as we are. Of the two of them, though, Amad looked a more polished and effective performer throughout this season.

Really? Those first few months I thought Garnacho was basically it, with Bruno in poor form and Amad still being eased in a bit (or abused depending on your take).

I'm also not sure that Garnacho is starting more games under Amorim than he did under Ten Hag this term, despite our current lack of options. He was on the bench in 3 out of the first 9 league games, all right at the start. In the 15 league squads he's made under Amorim he's been on the bench in 7. So he's gone from a player benched a third of the time to one benched half the time, even though he has about half as much competition.

 

[jem]

Random sensible Caf poster: “Your post was ridiculous.”

Champ: “Why do you say that?”

R.S.C.P.: “Because [insert reason]”

Champ: “You still haven’t given a reason. I’ll wait.”

 

[Apokalips]

Amad would probably start for a number of top clubs because he has playmaking abilities and he is an asset during defensive transition, on top of that he can inconsistently reach a very high level, so from a development standpoint starting him often makes a lot of sense even for a top team. Garnacho is just weird, at this point in time he lacks some basic things, he isn't a great passer, dribbler or finisher, he isn't particularly fast either but he has the ability to beat his man 1v1 which has value but in a top team I think that he is a perennial squad option, the kind of player that you sub in to change a game or finish a struggling team. I see him like a Carrasco.

I agree mostly with you both, Amad would be more of a starter and Garnacho would be a rotation option allowing him to develop without the pressure of being relied upon as if he was our star forward. It would be perfect if we had a Salah level player on the other flank alongside Amad who would get to develop with game time but without the reliance of HAVING to save our bacon constantly. The load needs to be spread and that is why I would like us to sign at least 2 top forwards and a quality wide player to give us options and some real quality. Some of the players that get a lot of minutes for us in forward positions are so poor and have no business starting so many games for a top club, but then again, we are in lower mid-table for a reason.

 

[Champ]

You could have just wrote Garnacho shoots more because that's the depth of your analysis here.

The reality is Amad scores more despite less shots, is more involved in build up and has more assists. But Garnacho shoots and misses more so somehow that's equal, let's bring Antony back so he can have 10 wild chances a game as well.

Quite clearly haven't read a single thing I've put, but that's ok, most people on here currently are trying to substantiate their opinions with points that have little relevance.

 

[always_hoping]

Ruben has said in the press conference for the Arsenal game that he hopes he'll get Amad back for the final month of the season.

Fingers and toes crossed United can reach the Europa league semi final without him.

 

[AlexUTD]

Ruben has said in the press conference for the Arsenal game that he hopes he'll get Amad back for the final month of the season.

Fingers and toes crossed United can reach the Europa league semi final without him.

Yes that would be a huge boost for us!

 

[Zumbi]

Both in terms of effectiveness, threat and in terms of any statistical analysis, Garnacho has been up there as our main attacking threat along with Bruno and Amad, so yes by playing Garnacho we have a suitable threat replacing that of any lost by Amad.

Now of course having the two complimenting each other on the pitch would be the preferred choice, but it's churlish and incorrect to say that without Amad we have little to no threat when our two main attacking players are still on the pitch in attacking positions.

This is nonsense.

In 22 PL games this season, Amad has 12 goal contributions.

In 27 PL games this season, Garnacho only has 4 goal contributions.

So no, they are not a comparable threat this season. Garnacho has only been a third as effective in the most important attacking metrics versus Amad.

 

[Redfrog]

When he is supposed to be back ? Anyone knows ?

 

[SER19]

Is it just me who thinks hes actually very good at RWB? and that possibly Mainoo and Fernandes could get the 10 roles? I fully get the argument to utilise him in the more advanced role too, but will anybody we sign for RWB be a sure improvement on him there?

 

[OverratedOpinion]

Is it just me who thinks hes actually very good at RWB? and that possibly Mainoo and Fernandes could get the 10 roles? I fully get the argument to utilise him in the more advanced role too, but will anybody we sign for RWB be a sure improvement on him there?

I think his performances are of a pretty similar level in either position. I prefer him at wing back because he's very brave in his starting position so it just moves us further up the pitch by proxy. He also has the acceleration and drive to get back if his opposing full back gets the wrong side.

 

[SER19]

I think his performances are of a pretty similar level in either position. I prefer him at wing back because he's very brave in his starting position so it just moves us further up the pitch by proxy. He also has the acceleration and drive to get back if his opposing full back gets the wrong side.

Thats my sense - when hes at RWB we are just automatically a bit braver and more attacking and he is willing to do the donkey work.

Eg

Onana

Yoro...De Ligt..LCB....

Amad..Ugarte..Ederson...Dorgu..

Fernandes...Mainoo....

Striker

If we thought he was good enough there then I would argue we might get away with 3 top signigns needed in a summer thats tight. A LCB with real pace, Ederson or similar, and obviously a striker.