Martial has clearly not been as good as last year. He has only 9 fewer appearances than last year and only half the goals. In a nutshell, he has regressed, and I doubt anyone would argue with this. And who knows if he has worked as hard in training to justify playing more than he has. One thing is for certain, he will not play much next year if he doesn't turn the ship around.
Andreas Pereira | Granada Loan Watch
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Or maybe the manager has an history of falling out with most of his talented players and is shit at dealing with the younger one (....Debryune, Lukaku, Ronaldo, Hazard, Balloteli, ....Martial)?
You mean last season where Martial played most of the games on the left wing and has a lot of assists while Rashford was playing as a pure 9? Amazing
My last post of the day, so bye bye! A demain
It shows he knows how to deliver a ball. I can't be arsed arguing which is greater at crossing the ball as it's a key part of one's game and an afterthought of the others. Add on the fact that it's clear as day which is better and this becomes a pointless discussion.
3 of Rashfords league goals are from the wing and he has played 1700 minutes to Andreas with 2800 minutes. What a bizarre comparison.
You're almost getting it! Calling Martial a vastly superior player and then using goals to compare Rashford and Pereira is stupid. Three completely different players that play in different positions.
You know what I mean, he's not a kid anymore.
He's at the crossroads age, he either going to stay or go and play first team football elsewhere. 21 is usually the age where the majority make that decision.
Not many clubs of the Madrid / Barca / United etc status start with central midfielders who are 21. They need to either be insanely good or go out on loan / play in the reserves and move to the first team for matches that suit them. I don't think we'll be giving up on him just yet, specially given his age and talent.
Pretty sure Scholes wasn't starting matches until he was around this age too and he didn't turn out that bad
Where did I question if he was going to start?Not many clubs of the Madrid / Barca / United etc status start with central midfielders who are 21. They need to either be insanely good or go out on loan / play in the reserves and move to the first team for matches that suit them. I don't think we'll be giving up on him just yet, specially given his age and talent.
Pretty sure Scholes wasn't starting matches until he was around this age too and he didn't turn out that bad
I just said he's at an age where a decision will be made about whether he's good enough to be a member of the squad.
Exactly, compare that return with Januzaj at Sunderland.
Agreed again Colin.
I think he has done enough for a place in our squad, he's a great option to have who can play many positions,
But one thing I wonder is he will lack game time here which might slow down his development too as he will be a sqaud player most of the time.
Would Surely suit us though to keep him as a bench strength as he is a creative option and can also act as a attacking midfeilder.
But one thing I wonder is he will lack game time here which might slow down his development too as he will be a sqaud player most of the time.
Would Surely suit us though to keep him as a bench strength as he is a creative option and can also act as a attacking midfeilder.
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Pereira 2819 mins 5 goals 3 assists 52 chances created 76% pass completion 70 successful take-ons, 16 shots inside the area (2 goals) 59 shots outside the area (3 goals)
Januzaj 1570 mins 0 goals 3 assists 32 chances created 71% pass completion 55 successful take-ons, 14 shots inside the area (0 goals) 11 shots outside the area (0 goals)
What do I win?
A Kenwood juicer obviously.What do I win?
Hold on, I'm on a roll here, I'm going for the hattrick
He has done enough to earn a spot as our back up midfielder to Pogba/Herrera.
I really hope he makes it here but I can't see it. Hope it's not a Michael Keane situation if we do let him go, and hope we put a buyback fee.
you're too kind AntoOther than being a back-up CM to Pogba and Herrera, I think he would be better playing as attackers (CAM, RAM, LAM, LW, RW). Considering his height and physique, I don't think Jose's planning to play him at the centre midfield regularly. Play him instead of Lingard and we're good to go . But seriously, work hard in training and Jose will give chances to play matches. Our attackers position are still up for grab anyway. Hope he'll be in the squad next season.
. But seriously, work hard in training and Jose will give chances to play matches. Our attackers position are still up for grab anyway. Hope he'll be in the squad next season.Just for arguements sake he's taller than for example Scholes, Modric, Kante, Wilshere, Cazorla and about the same as for example Drinkwater and Roy Keane. He's got good balance and I've seen plenty of defenders just bounce off of him in games for Granada, so I think he'd be alright as long as he's not tasked with covering as much ground as someone playing in a two man midfield. I don't think he has the engine to excell under such conditions.Other than being a back-up CM to Pogba and Herrera, I think he would be better playing as attackers (CAM, RAM, LAM, LW, RW). Considering his height and physique, I don't think Jose's planning to play him at the centre midfield regularly. Play him instead of Lingard and we're good to go
He realistically has done all that's expected of him on loan. So if he's not in the plans for next season, he should really leave.
He will be in the squad next season, there is no reason to sell him or leave him out. If Lingard is here, Pereira will be too as long as he does what Mou wants from him and he seems to be doing everything expected of him.
True, I'm impressed with his balance, workrate, defensive work and range of passing. In a midfield of three is where he would excel playing at the centre imo, definitely not CDM. It's just that I don't think he's the usual tall and/or robust type of CM & CDM Jose preferred. Then again Mourinho is quite flexible at this. Also, Mourinho wouldn't risk playing him at the most demanding position centre midfielder immediately yet, try him out first as one of the attackers position and see from there, giving him some games at the centre. He definitely have the skills though.
HOW SPANISH STINT HAS PREPARED PEREIRA
Manchester United youngster Andreas Pereira has insisted he can operate in a variety of positions following a season of personal progress at Granada.
Although his loan club were relegated from La Liga, the 21-year-old played 37 times and will have learned plenty of lessons and feels the minutes under his belt ensure he is ready to compete for a place at Old Trafford.
One of the main topics of discussion for United fans regarding Pereira is his best position as the midfielder has performed a variety of roles. During the early part of his stint in Spain, he was stationed on the flanks before being moved into a more central position.
"I played out wide in the beginning then, after that, I played more as a no.10 and, then in the last two or three months, I’ve played as a central midfielder," he told ManUtd.comrecently.
"It went well and I think I have found another position. I think it’s good to be more of an all-round player and Granada have used me in every midfield position so I am happy the coach trusted me and I did my job. It’s important but, as always, I will go where the manager needs me, I will play in any position and feel I can fulfil many roles."
In the Reserves at United, there were signs of Pereira becoming a box-to-box midfielder and, as somebody always regarded as a highly technical player, he started to add his natural ability to energy and stamina by impressing during Warren Joyce's reign in charge.
"So the type of football I’m playing as a midfielder, because the team was not doing so well most of the time, is not like at United as we don’t have the ball," he said. "We have to defend and it takes a lot of energy. We are not playing at the top of the table so we have to defend a lot. It is difficult but I’m definitely changing and I feel myself getting stronger and more energetic from playing games each week.
"I think I did the best thing for me doing what I did. If I went on loan somewhere that I can play easily, sit back and just do my thing, of course, it’d be good but, at United, we always had the ball and I’ve had to do things I’m not used to since I came here. I have had to defend and we play on the counter-attack and can play long balls sometimes. I was not used to this with United so it has been difficult but it’s a good challenge for me and I’m handling it as well."
Tony Adams was at the club as a consultant at that time, before taking over as caretaker coach for the closing stages of the season. Pereira admitted he was surprised to discover the extent of the ex-England captain's career at Arsenal after being in regular contact with him.
"I spoke with him and saw him almost every day," said the Brazilian prospect. "I know it was a long time ago but he told me about his career and everything. At first, I admit I hadn’t followed his career so closely so I didn’t know he was Mr. Arsenal!
"Of course I have a lot of respect for what he did in his career. I know he’s a very good guy to speak with me and I am happy that he is here to guide me."
The burning question now is whether Pereira can force his way into Jose Mourinho's plans. He scored in the manager's first game at the club - a friendly at Wigan Athletic last pre-season, and his progress has been carefully monitored.
"I think I’m ready now," he added. "I have played over 2,000 minutes now in men’s football, in La Liga, and I did quite well. I feel I’m ready, more than ready, to play men’s football now. I am more mature as well, physically and mentally, and I am ready to come back and hopefully push to play next season for United."
Manchester United youngster Andreas Pereira has insisted he can operate in a variety of positions following a season of personal progress at Granada.
Although his loan club were relegated from La Liga, the 21-year-old played 37 times and will have learned plenty of lessons and feels the minutes under his belt ensure he is ready to compete for a place at Old Trafford.
One of the main topics of discussion for United fans regarding Pereira is his best position as the midfielder has performed a variety of roles. During the early part of his stint in Spain, he was stationed on the flanks before being moved into a more central position.
"I played out wide in the beginning then, after that, I played more as a no.10 and, then in the last two or three months, I’ve played as a central midfielder," he told ManUtd.comrecently.
"It went well and I think I have found another position. I think it’s good to be more of an all-round player and Granada have used me in every midfield position so I am happy the coach trusted me and I did my job. It’s important but, as always, I will go where the manager needs me, I will play in any position and feel I can fulfil many roles."
In the Reserves at United, there were signs of Pereira becoming a box-to-box midfielder and, as somebody always regarded as a highly technical player, he started to add his natural ability to energy and stamina by impressing during Warren Joyce's reign in charge.
"So the type of football I’m playing as a midfielder, because the team was not doing so well most of the time, is not like at United as we don’t have the ball," he said. "We have to defend and it takes a lot of energy. We are not playing at the top of the table so we have to defend a lot. It is difficult but I’m definitely changing and I feel myself getting stronger and more energetic from playing games each week.
"I think I did the best thing for me doing what I did. If I went on loan somewhere that I can play easily, sit back and just do my thing, of course, it’d be good but, at United, we always had the ball and I’ve had to do things I’m not used to since I came here. I have had to defend and we play on the counter-attack and can play long balls sometimes. I was not used to this with United so it has been difficult but it’s a good challenge for me and I’m handling it as well."
Tony Adams was at the club as a consultant at that time, before taking over as caretaker coach for the closing stages of the season. Pereira admitted he was surprised to discover the extent of the ex-England captain's career at Arsenal after being in regular contact with him.
"I spoke with him and saw him almost every day," said the Brazilian prospect. "I know it was a long time ago but he told me about his career and everything. At first, I admit I hadn’t followed his career so closely so I didn’t know he was Mr. Arsenal!
"Of course I have a lot of respect for what he did in his career. I know he’s a very good guy to speak with me and I am happy that he is here to guide me."
The burning question now is whether Pereira can force his way into Jose Mourinho's plans. He scored in the manager's first game at the club - a friendly at Wigan Athletic last pre-season, and his progress has been carefully monitored.
"I think I’m ready now," he added. "I have played over 2,000 minutes now in men’s football, in La Liga, and I did quite well. I feel I’m ready, more than ready, to play men’s football now. I am more mature as well, physically and mentally, and I am ready to come back and hopefully push to play next season for United."
Happy with his mentality.
On loan at a struggling club, it would have been easy for him to shirk responsibility like it was none of his business.
On loan at a struggling club, it would have been easy for him to shirk responsibility like it was none of his business.
I marvel when people are eager to discard a young player when they get to 21. Yet in reality, unless they are absolute wonder kids, that is the age at which they are ready to start fighting for a regular place in the first team 18.
Who's discarding?
Was just making a general comment.Who's discarding?
Ah okay. Yeah agree with everything you said. Guess it's the general lack of patience that is strong in supporting a football club and in life in general.
We need to extend his contact before the start of next season.
Absolutely. I imagine we must be in the process of doing it. Very excited to see what this guy can bring to the table next season, always good to have options and I feel he'll get plenty of chances next season and over the coming ones to make a name for himself and hopefully become an important part of the team.
He's added a lot to his game during his loan spell at Granada including grit, which Jose likes a lot. Hopefully Jose will look past his age and give him enough game time.
One of the more technical midfielders/attacking players United have in their ranks, comparable to the likes of Januzaj, Pogba, Morrison and recently Gomes. I hope he will be given more chances to prove himself now that United will have more high intensity games to cope with next season. He will surely at least deserves to play in the cup games, or subs appearances in the league.
Based on the highlights playing for Granada, he seems to have a very good ball retention technique and dribbling skills which got him out of sticky situations although does tend to overdo it sometimes. That part of his style reminds me of Modric's, although some likened his style more to Coutinho's which is fair assessment as he does play from the left and drift inwards to shoot.
I think like Rashford, and Modric during his earlier Spurs' career, he should continue his development playing from the left in the league and gain more experience. For me, he is not ready to play centrally yet. Depending on United's transfer dealings, another season-long loan deal wouldn't be bad for him. Maybe to one of the newcomers to PL where he would play as the main man.
Based on the highlights playing for Granada, he seems to have a very good ball retention technique and dribbling skills which got him out of sticky situations although does tend to overdo it sometimes. That part of his style reminds me of Modric's, although some likened his style more to Coutinho's which is fair assessment as he does play from the left and drift inwards to shoot.
I think like Rashford, and Modric during his earlier Spurs' career, he should continue his development playing from the left in the league and gain more experience. For me, he is not ready to play centrally yet. Depending on United's transfer dealings, another season-long loan deal wouldn't be bad for him. Maybe to one of the newcomers to PL where he would play as the main man.
He surely has to be looking at a getting a lot of minutes as a squad player this season, at the very least. Should be coming in when one of the first choice lads arent available or are being rested.
Said it in this thread already but realistically and I hope he battles it out with Lingard for minutes on the bench.
Alternatively, if Mourinho actually chooses to get a couple more midfielders and trusts his players in the right positions, it would be great see him start all cup games; that added responsibility like Romero had in the Europa League.
Alternatively, if Mourinho actually chooses to get a couple more midfielders and trusts his players in the right positions, it would be great see him start all cup games; that added responsibility like Romero had in the Europa League.
I really rate Pereira. Really hope he gets a chance at some stage at United.
However, what I find funny, could you imagine the outrage among United fans if he wasn't on loan and we were linked with a midfielder from Granada? Everyone would be saying why are we bringing this guy in?
Funny bunch.
However, what I find funny, could you imagine the outrage among United fans if he wasn't on loan and we were linked with a midfielder from Granada? Everyone would be saying why are we bringing this guy in?
Funny bunch.
The power of homegrown, our own product and no need to spend money for fee is very strong.
I'm talking about the quality of player.
If Pereira was not an academy product of ours, would people really be calling for us to sign the same player from Granada?. I'm sorry but no one on here would be calling for him.
Again, I really like him and it's not a criticism of him.
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That's not true though. If we were signing a young exciting Brazillian attacking midfielder that no one knew much about people would be pretty excited.
Id want him, I watched him live at the last U20 WC and he was one of Brazils outstanding players, one of the goals he scored was very special. His one weakness at the tournament was a few wayward long passes but apart from that he ticked all the boxes that really matter