Andy Mitten: The players aren't responding to the manager

[THE ZOL]

Very out of place isn’t he (no racist, I just don’t know how else to word it)

Says things I’d expect a 9 year old to say when they’re learning about football

Do you want to elaborate?

Well I should first caveat that podcasts are subjective. What grates on one listener is probably appreciated by another.

My view of him is that he's always coming across like he knows more than most about tactical approaches in the game and actually doesn't. On the flip side he is the only journalist with the balls to ask tactical questions in the press conference so he deserves props for that. He's also not nearly as clueless and condescending as Micheal Cox, so he's probably not the worst but just frustrating to listen to when the chips are down.

I feel like he's got it wrong too many times, think on one occasion I heard him talk about a man mark system that we supposedly used and just recently ten hag said he categorically does not have us use a man marking system. He was also extremely novice in the Mourinho and Ole phase, when he would criticise Mourinho a lot and when Ole came he said "all you need is love, it's that simple". In the end, it wasn't and he then used hindsight to retrospectively change his views.

I also hate how he has an infliction (? Unsure if that's the right word to describe it) at the end of every sentence like it's a patronising question. This comes down to the podcasts being subjective on the listener bit. But he says a lot of things in a patronising tone, which is frustrating for a journalist often relying on hindsight to develop his own views.

Anka is refreshing in that he actually tries to look at things from a tactical perspective unlike most other football journalists that have a very limited and overly simplistic analysis that is reduced to things that cannot be proved such as effort. Perhaps Anka is a ‘tactical guru’ but he does trigger debate on tactical issues, which is something that this fan base needs.

As for the man-marking point, I wouldn’t take too much from Ten Hag’s words. With our eyes, it is clear to see that he employs a hybrid press which is still more man-oriented than a positional press a la Klopp. We have seen it time and time again this season - from the first game vs. Wolves - how our shape becomes disjointed by players following the opponent. The pattern is too consistent for us to rule out, at the very least, elements of man-marking. Either Ten Hag is unable to coach a functional press or he is unable to spot and rectify the issues in our pressing system. If it is truly down to the player’s inability to press in a hybrid system, surely a competent coach would adapt to this and change to a positional press or abandon the high-press altogether and play on

It was a good question for Anka to ask because Ten Hag is not pressed enough on tactical matters. I do not recall a single journalist asking him about the 3-1-6 and the repeated isolation our DM faces.

Moreover, Ten Hag contradicts himself too much for his words to be trusted. In one presser he tells us he can’t play the Ajax way as he must adapt to his players, and yet he persists with the same 3-1-6 and hybrid press as if he is ideologically wedded to it! And then he tells us that this is a good squad after a win, but after Bournemouth resoundingly beat us he implies the squad isn’t good enough. His words stink of desperation as they lack consistently both with his actions and previous things he said, which gives the impression that he is thinking on his feet rather than having the plan and principles he insists he has.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Well I should first caveat that podcasts are subjective. What grates on one listener is probably appreciated by another.

My view of him is that he's always coming across like he knows more than most about tactical approaches in the game and actually doesn't. On the flip side he is the only journalist with the balls to ask tactical questions in the press conference so he deserves props for that. He's also not nearly as clueless and condescending as Micheal Cox, so he's probably not the worst but just frustrating to listen to when the chips are down.

I feel like he's got it wrong too many times, think on one occasion I heard him talk about a man mark system that we supposedly used and just recently ten hag said he categorically does not have us use a man marking system. He was also extremely novice in the Mourinho and Ole phase, when he would criticise Mourinho a lot and when Ole came he said "all you need is love, it's that simple". In the end, it wasn't and he then used hindsight to retrospectively change his views.

I also hate how he has an infliction (? Unsure if that's the right word to describe it) at the end of every sentence like it's a patronising question. This comes down to the podcasts being subjective on the listener bit. But he says a lot of things in a patronising tone, which is frustrating for a journalist often relying on hindsight to develop his own views.

Great points and true about pods being subjective, that's what makes them interesting and though provoking. If you have heard ours I hope you are a fan!

 

[didz]

As for the man-marking point, I wouldn’t take too much from Ten Hag’s words. With our eyes, it is clear to see that he employs a hybrid press which is still more man-oriented than a positional press a la Klopp. We have seen it time and time again this season - from the first game vs. Wolves - how our shape becomes disjointed by players following the opponent. The pattern is too consistent for us to rule out, at the very least, elements of man-marking. Either Ten Hag is unable to coach a functional press or he is unable to spot and rectify the issues in our pressing system. If it is truly down to the player’s inability to press in a hybrid system, surely a competent coach would adapt to this and change to a positional press or abandon the high-press altogether and play on

It's interesting that you mention Klopp there, as he was probably the first person associated with English football to describe Ten Hag's midfield as man-marking. It was right after the Bangkok Centenary Final, where we smashed them 4-0 to win the trophy.

In all seriousness, I just see it as a combination of him using a man-orientated press and also tending to flip his midfield triangle to match up with the opponent's to try and give his side better access against the ball.

It worked in Bangkok!

 

[VP89]

Anka is refreshing in that he actually tries to look at things from a tactical perspective unlike most other football journalists that have a very limited and overly simplistic analysis that is reduced to things that cannot be proved such as effort. Perhaps Anka is a ‘tactical guru’ but he does trigger debate on tactical issues, which is something that this fan base needs.

As for the man-marking point, I wouldn’t take too much from Ten Hag’s words. With our eyes, it is clear to see that he employs a hybrid press which is still more man-oriented than a positional press a la Klopp. We have seen it time and time again this season - from the first game vs. Wolves - how our shape becomes disjointed by players following the opponent. The pattern is too consistent for us to rule out, at the very least, elements of man-marking. Either Ten Hag is unable to coach a functional press or he is unable to spot and rectify the issues in our pressing system. If it is truly down to the player’s inability to press in a hybrid system, surely a competent coach would adapt to this and change to a positional press or abandon the high-press altogether and play on

It was a good question for Anka to ask because Ten Hag is not pressed enough on tactical matters. I do not recall a single journalist asking him about the 3-1-6 and the repeated isolation our DM faces.

Moreover, Ten Hag contradicts himself too much for his words to be trusted. In one presser he tells us he can’t play the Ajax way as he must adapt to his players, and yet he persists with the same 3-1-6 and hybrid press as if he is ideologically wedded to it! And then he tells us that this is a good squad after a win, but after Bournemouth resoundingly beat us he implies the squad isn’t good enough. His words stink of desperation as they lack consistently both with his actions and previous things he said, which gives the impression that he is thinking on his feet rather than having the plan and principles he insists he has.

Your post turned away from Anka and more into a rant about Ten Hag.
Sticking to Anka though, I don't think it's great to have someone talking tactics when they aren't very good at it.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Your post turned away from Anka and more into a rant about Ten Hag.
Sticking to Anka though, I don't think it's great to have someone talking tactics when they aren't very good at it.

The perfect response to a rant which repeatedly mentions a 3-1-6 formation….

 

[Zora]

Anka is awful to listen to. Reminds me of the so-called Armchair Experts who have played Football Manager for a few hours and then think they're Pep Guardiola.

 

[ti vu]

The maguire point was nothing to do with fans, it was the British media I was talking about.

On the arnoutavic and rabiot. Do you honestly think ETH chose those players knowing that 170m euros would be available? No he had a smaller budget, the uproar from fans happened (rightfully) united then panicked and brought in casemiro and antony(who united walked away from earlier in the window for being to expensive to only go back and spends 10s of millions more).

As I said, British media is ABU by its nature. Nothing's new. If United manager can't handle that much(little) of pressure, it's no use.

There was always money for FdJ signing. We waited as long as we did until FdJ deal was confirmed dead. You here pretty much agreed that it was all about waiting too long and panicked. Didn't plan well. Martial got injured in pre season. Ronaldo wanted out, so ended up scraping the barrel with ETH naming a familiar name in Arnautovic, which quickly got shot down, and Ronaldo got stuck because he couldn't find a club. Rabiot was always available last summer, but we decided his wage asking was too ludicrous. Sound good in theory only for us failed badly to get a proper CM with all these loan and signings that ended up costing us more.

Last season was done. ETH did well with the support from the fan, and the incompetent club. It would have been time to build on it with more time to plan. However much one want to blame the people above him, ETH this season however would shoulder as much blame where he decided to focus to build a style he is inexperienced in on a shaky foundation. His own assessment of players' characters is poor. Ended up in a paradox where the ones who he pushed out like McTominay Maguire and already out of the door like Fred are likely more helpful than those he used/bought as the core for the team.

 

[THE ZOL]

Your post turned away from Anka and more into a rant about Ten Hag.
Sticking to Anka though, I don't think it's great to have someone talking tactics when they aren't very good at it.

1. I specifically responded to point you made about Ten Hag ruling out man-marking to point out inconsistencies in Ten Hag’s speech and actions. This implies that his words should be taken with a pinch of salt.

2. What makes you come to the conclusion that Anka is not good at talking tactics or that he doesn’t understand tactics?

The perfect response to a rant which repeatedly mentions a 3-1-6 formation….

What are you implying here? I will keep on bringing up the 3-1-6 until the day he’s sacked because it should be the focus of any discussion about Ten Hag and his incompetence, especially amid the prevalence of a view that he is a victim of bad attitude players that are downing tools.

In our last two games, both managers concisely explained how they tactically outmastered him in their post-match interviews.

Tommy Tuchel :
“Sometimes they do a buildup with only four people to have six up higher in the pitch. It explains to me why they are dangerous and also why sometimes you can catch them on counter attacks and why they are sometimes vulnerable.” (TNT Sport)”

Andoni Iraola: https://utddistrict.co.uk/bournemou...ag-with-simple-man-united-comment/09/12/2023/

“They send a lot of players forward so you will get spaces. In this kind of open game when you know there will be chances for both games, we spoke at half-time and needing more goals if we want to win. When you send so many threats, it’s a matter of numbers, you have situations to attack 2-v-2, 3-v-2, 3-v-3, we were good in these moments. We knew they would make our wingers run backwards, but we knew when we could recover high, our forwards would have space. We knew in transitions we would have our chances and we took them.”

 

[VP89]

1. I specifically responded to point you made about Ten Hag ruling out man-marking to point out inconsistencies in Ten Hag’s speech and actions. This implies that his words should be taken with a pinch of salt.

2. What makes you come to the conclusion that Anka is not good at talking tactics or that he doesn’t understand tactics?

I dont think we purposely deploy a man marking system. I think our system has got various reasons been implemented poorly which may make it appear as though we are overloaded or in a position for man for man on counters. But it's not something we are doing by design.

I have also addressed my issues with Anka multiple times in previous posts, and given examples where I found him tactically poor in knowledge.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

1. I specifically responded to point you made about Ten Hag ruling out man-marking to point out inconsistencies in Ten Hag’s speech and actions. This implies that his words should be taken with a pinch of salt.

2. What makes you come to the conclusion that Anka is not good at talking tactics or that he doesn’t understand tactics?



What are you implying here? I will keep on bringing up the 3-1-6 until the day he’s sacked because it should be the focus of any discussion about Ten Hag and his incompetence, especially amid the prevalence of a view that he is a victim of bad attitude players that are downing tools.

In our last two games, both managers concisely explained how they tactically outmastered him in their post-match interviews.

Tommy Tuchel :
“Sometimes they do a buildup with only four people to have six up higher in the pitch. It explains to me why they are dangerous and also why sometimes you can catch them on counter attacks and why they are sometimes vulnerable.” (TNT Sport)”

Andoni Iraola: https://utddistrict.co.uk/bournemou...ag-with-simple-man-united-comment/09/12/2023/

“They send a lot of players forward so you will get spaces. In this kind of open game when you know there will be chances for both games, we spoke at half-time and needing more goals if we want to win. When you send so many threats, it’s a matter of numbers, you have situations to attack 2-v-2, 3-v-2, 3-v-3, we were good in these moments. We knew they would make our wingers run backwards, but we knew when we could recover high, our forwards would have space. We knew in transitions we would have our chances and we took them.”

None of which involves playing a 3-1-6 formation. Because that isn’t a thing.

 

[THE ZOL]

None of which involves playing a 3-1-6 formation. Because that isn’t a thing.

What?

Tuchel referred to us building up with only 4 players (3+1) and attacking with 6. That’s about as clear a reference to a 3-1-6 as you can get.

Iraola made note of us sending lots of players and forward and giving away space in transitions. That’s a natural outcome of the 3-1-6 which suggests he figured out its weaknesses and exploited them.

For you to say 3-1-6 isn’t a thing is quite ridiculous. It has been a consisent pattern of Ten Hag’s for both of his seasons here and even at Ajax. Plenty of posters on here have referrred to it. It’s discussed all over football twitter. Are we all just making it up as part of our agenda against Ten Hag?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

What?

Tuchel referred to us building up with only 4 players (3+1) and attacking with 6. That’s about as clear a reference to a 3-1-6 as you can get.

Iraola made note of us sending lots of players and forward and giving away space in transitions. That’s a natural outcome of the 3-1-6 which suggests he figured out its weaknesses and exploited them.

For you to say 3-1-6 isn’t a thing is quite ridiculous. It has been a consisent pattern of Ten Hag’s for both of his seasons here and even at Ajax. Plenty of posters on here have referrred to it. It’s discussed all over football twitter. Are we all just making it up as part of our agenda against Ten Hag?

ok, then...

And yeah, 3-1-6 isn't a formation.

 

[horsechoker]

Formations are a social construct

 

[THE ZOL]

ok, then...

And yeah, 3-1-6 isn't a formation.

Yeah something that we see with our own eyes, something that is identified by tacticos, journalists, analysts and coaches alike, doesn’t exist because Pogue Mahone says so.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Yeah something that we see with our own eyes, something that is identified by tacticos, journalists, analysts and coaches alike, doesn’t exist because Pogue Mahone says so.

“tacticos”

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I change my mind. Carl Anka isn’t the worst. There are obviously far worse out there. They call themselves tacticos, apparently. I just hope I never sit beside one on an airplane.

 

[Spoony]

I change my mind. Carl Anka isn’t the worst. There are obviously far worse out there. They call themselves tacticos, apparently. I just hope I never sit beside one on an airplane.

Tacticos sound well tasty.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Tacticos sound well tasty.

A small, crispy burrito.

 

[CallyRed]

I've hurt my tacticos on a number of occasions

 

[Spoony]

A small, crispy burrito.

I've got a craving for puttanesca with pasta. Wrong thread I know but heh, we're going to get thumped by them down the road...so I'd rather crave for nice food instead of worrying about Sunday.

Oh and yeah Carl Anka, I like him even though he does seem to come across as a tactico.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I've got a craving for puttanesca with pasta. Wrong thread I know but heh, we're going to get thumped by them down the road...so I'd rather crave for nice food instead of worrying about Sunday.

Oh and yeah Carl Anka, I like him even though he does seem to come across as a tactico.

I like him too. As I said, he seems like a nice person. I don’t even mind listening to him crap on about tactics on the podcast. There’s usually one or two interesting morsels in amongst all the hot air. Tacticos can do one though.

 

[THE ZOL]

“tacticos”

Quit being such a boomer, Poguey Moguey. The game has moved on from a flat 442 with Giggs and Beckham spamming crosses. Would you like me to reccomend you some TikTok accounts to enhance your understanding of the latest tactical trends? Or is Roy Keane repeatedly shouting about players downing tools as complex as it gets for you?

 

[Insanity]

Aye Ronaldo gave him an easy way out, he goes into the season with Ronaldo and Martial as strikers, Martial always injured and a striker in Ronaldo who decided not to play leaving ETH with no strikers, that's a great easy way out. Not to mention the club backed him massively by getting the world class loan signing in weghorst. Easy way out indeed.

The takeover stuff has created an instability within the club. It's much more than how much the club spend. ETH, the players and the rest of the staff know that when takeovers happen no one is safe. If you don't think it makes any difference then we'll have to agree to disagree.

Greenwood. He was meant to be part of this seasons squad but united made a u turn. This again left us with 2 strikers, a young buck and martial.

Maguire. The media constantly in pressers and interviews consistently and constantly kept asking about maguire.

I know people are wanting him out, but it's really clouding people's judgement on what has happened at United since he arrived.

Ronaldo started a lot of games in both the league and Europa before the WC. 16 times in total. And yes, he made the decision easy for him by giving that interview and basically taking himself out. Also, what does that have to do with the results this season?

Most teams that play 1 striker up front have 2 strikers. 1 starter and 1 backup. Plus, we also have Rashford who can play there and scored a lot of goals last season starting there. ETH is an idiot if he was banking on Greenwood, a player who hadn't played in eons. to comeback and solve his striking woes. Also, before his suspension, Greenwood played most of his first team football starting from the right. So again, you are just making an excuse.

Media will always ask about players who are not starting what's the big deal. Also, we did well without Maguire, so there really wasn't any clamor for him starting.

I know some really want him to work out, but making stuff up about the hardships little 'Aggy has faced isn't fooling anyone.

 

[Isotope]

I love tacos.

 

[The Urban Goose]

Mmmm.... Tacticos

 

[Sunny Jim]

I change my mind. Carl Anka isn’t the worst. There are obviously far worse out there. They call themselves tacticos, apparently. I just hope I never sit beside one on an airplane.

do you not like Carl Anka? Im alergic to the MEN crew with Luckhurst leading my dislike list by a country mile.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Quit being such a boomer, Poguey Moguey. The game has moved on from a flat 442 with Giggs and Beckham spamming crosses. Would you like me to reccomend you some TikTok accounts to enhance your understanding of the latest tactical trends? Or is Roy Keane repeatedly shouting about players downing tools as complex as it gets for you?

Did you just wait until it was the next day and your posting limit had refreshed?

Pogue is bulletproof. You could call him a dipshit and he won't be affected by it. I send him insulting letters regularly and, based on the footage from my spycams, he doesn't waver one little bit.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Quit being such a boomer, Poguey Moguey. The game has moved on from a flat 442 with Giggs and Beckham spamming crosses. Would you like me to reccomend you some TikTok accounts to enhance your understanding of the latest tactical trends? Or is Roy Keane repeatedly shouting about players downing tools as complex as it gets for you?

That’s better. At least a bit of wit on display. But you kids need to move on from calling anyone over 30 a boomer. There are millenials in their 40s now. I’ll pass on the TikTok tacticos though, thanks.