Taking off Amrabat and having McTominay and Eriksen as a midfield two is a sackable offence.
Andy Mitten: The players aren't responding to the manager
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To me it says he didn't trust that Amrabat would avoid a 2nd yellow. I don't believe ten Hag didn't know that. He must have feared conceding another 6 with ten men and opted to just try and score and hope to avoid defeat.
Not sure what gave you the impression that we’d turn up when we haven’t done it all season?
Just listened.
Definitely some more raw emotions on display than usual - probably in part because it was recorded a couple of hours following the defeat, rather than being recorded today. But that was indicative of how even some of the most measured supporters were reacting too (given the manner of the defeat and the questions it raises ETH's decision making).
That’s the first time we have lost to a big six team at home under Ten Hag. It’s the first time we have even dropped points against them. Beat them all last season and Barca too, even when I had doubts entering the match.
We had a better chance of winning that game taking into account risk of a potential red card and keeping him on than we did making the sub he did which pretty much guaranteed us a loss. McTominay is not and never has had a good game as a pure defensive midfielder especially paired with someone like Eriksen. Playing him in that position in all but the most dire of scenarios should be a sackable offense in and of itself at this point.
When I heard Mount was coming on, I was excited for 2 seconds until they said it was Amrabat coming off and not McTominay. Why are we choosing to play McTominay over Mount in a number 8/10 role in the first place I don't understand, but then we take off our only holding midfielder and expect us to somehow gain more control of the game? He said he wanted to play more attacking, but his substitution made us actually more defensive because we lost any potential ability to gain periods of control with that substitution.
This season is completely different though. We're just not there, at all.
Firmly believe we'd have probably lost at home to at least one of them on the run after the LC final too.
I do see that point, but also he's made it clear who he doesn't want and we've not been able to shift them. There's definitely blame with both parties.
I did think we'd get battered, but it's the nature of the performances from senior players really sticks in the neck. I
Everyone knows Antony has a lot to prove, but Ten Hag can only set the team up with what he deems will have the best chance of winning. I think that will include Antony in the future, but for yesterday, he hadn't been playing or playing well enough to be that.
Valid point, but I think it was a tactical decision to try and have the players to break quickly. Between him and Eriksen, they're the only players with any vision or creativity.
I think as @horsechoker said, it had to be done with him on a yellow. Goes to show the state of our squad that those are the midfield options. I think he would have liked to have brought Mainoo on, but not particularly fair on the lad.
The marketing event in America that was supposedly summer training set us up poorly and here we are now, starting at the abyss.
The club long ago became a commercial venture with performances on the pitch being incidental, if not irrelevant.
The club long ago became a commercial venture with performances on the pitch being incidental, if not irrelevant.
Why? Since when did we have to sub off a player the minute he gets a yellow card? Its not like he went on to make another borderline challenge later on and was one foul away. If our whole strategy was able to be thrown off kilter by our defensive mid picking up a yellow card, then it was a garbage strategy to begin with. We had a better chance of winning that game taking the risk of Amrabat potentially getting a red card than we did moving McTominay into that position which essentially guaranteed us losing that match. I would have rathered bring on Reguillon and move Lindelof into midfield or into a back 3 than do what he did.
I imagine after the VAR debacle and the softness of the yellow he did receive, he felt it was too big of a risk to have him on. Scott should be more than capable of playing deeper and Mount should have had more of a positive effect too. As I've said in other posts, I thought the back 4 was doing alright, so I wouldn't have wanted to change that.
We have 6 years worth of examples of Scott being far less than capable of playing that role though. He’s a box to box midfielder with an eye for goal. He has zero defensive awareness or ability to receive and progress the ball, the two traits of good holding midfielders.
This big six saying thing does need to end tbh. I mean chelsea came 12th last season
Brighton and Newcastle are far better teams than chelsea this and last season.
I don't think he's never been able to play that role, it's certainly not been his most successful, but he should be adequate - otherwise he's just a shit no 10. Which I don't think he is.
He thinks the players are not responding to the Manager.. we're have we had that before? They did it to Jose they did it to Ole, now there doing it to ETH.. imo he's bought this season not what we needed.
Were not privy to what goes on but to put Hojlund a kid the responsibility of getting the goals was a massive error, unless ETH was told our best finisher who's in Getafe was being brought back In they took way to long to sort that out. .. yes these players are not responding to the manager .. they did last season why is it so different this season?
Were not privy to what goes on but to put Hojlund a kid the responsibility of getting the goals was a massive error, unless ETH was told our best finisher who's in Getafe was being brought back In they took way to long to sort that out. .. yes these players are not responding to the manager .. they did last season why is it so different this season?
I doubt he's got any certainty on that and the decision will probably be made on a whim.
Oh yes it was made for him, if so why pin your hopes on a kid who's not there yet. Another top striker with him would have been a lot better than buying Mount and a Keeper...if he knew all along what was happening then a Striker should have been bought in not a prospective one ..
He can't force the club to sign a top striker.
If the club say its Hojlund or nothing (and wait till next summer) then what do you expect the manager to do?
Weren't we bringing him back all along but then changed at the last minute because of social media pressure
Richard Arnold has apparently even recorded a vid explaining the decision to bring him back.
I think it's clear that the club couldn't afford Kane nor Oshimen so we went for a project striker.
You could add many examples to the list. Casemerio , mount (both conveniently available) or nothing , it’s remarkable the amount of players , stemming back to Mata , that United bought cause they could. You could add Ighalo and Weghodst to that list , I can’t understand how pep always manages things well when he gets these sh*t sort of players… Oh wait, he doesn’t !!!
Hoijland is the player a top club signs to replace their current, aging first team striker. This says it all about how broken the club is and how it’s nonsense to compare us to a well run club.
Sure. But over the next ten seasons, I'd bet that the Big Six pick up the most points in the league, with maybe only Newcastle joining them.This big six saying thing does need to end tbh. I mean chelsea came 12th last season
Brighton and Newcastle are far better teams than chelsea this and last season.
No matter how valiantly anybody tries to defend ETH, the £400M spent on a bizarre collection of players isn't going away. What makes the matter even worse is that while we were screwing around doing our usual Summer circus show, teams who don't even have Champions league as a lure were snapping up players who we could have used. Admittedly, this is only one of a few core issues going on at United. It's an unmitigated mess.
How is it a bizarre collection of players? Lizandro Martinez is the business, Casemire was fantastic last year and remains, surprisingly, one of our better offensive players, Malacia was good as well but injured, Onana seems to be coming along, Hojland looks like he'll be a gem. Mount still hasn't had the chance to show himself much, and Anthony has been quite good at times, and really opens up our right side. I don't see how this is a "bizarre collection." Maybe Anthony hasn't been as good as hoped, and possibly Mount could be bizarre.
It's the all injuries and having our two best players go to shit and the distractions of Sancho and Greenwood that are killing us, though I would drop some of the blame on ETH as well. But the players he's bought have been quite good in general
A whole team can't just regress in this way and it not be on the manager. I'd be inclined to blame the players if it was one or two, but it's absolutely every player.
The issue is that he's been called out for having favourites, when he clearly does, if it was down to him he'd pick the same 11, three times a week. But because of his 'principles' he's made a rod for his own back where he has to play McTomminay and Maguire due to their form because the other lads aren't playing well. So then he has to play a shit on a stick system to accommodate those players and their glaring weaknesses resulting in shite-ball.
Just own it and say these are your first 11, the rest of you can whistle or get up to the required expectations to play, and scoring goals for Scotland don't come into the equation.
The issue is that he's been called out for having favourites, when he clearly does, if it was down to him he'd pick the same 11, three times a week. But because of his 'principles' he's made a rod for his own back where he has to play McTomminay and Maguire due to their form because the other lads aren't playing well. So then he has to play a shit on a stick system to accommodate those players and their glaring weaknesses resulting in shite-ball.
Just own it and say these are your first 11, the rest of you can whistle or get up to the required expectations to play, and scoring goals for Scotland don't come into the equation.
Totally agree with your points on the other players mentioned, but I honestly think those two alone is enough. He spent £140m on Antony and Mount. That's James Maddison, and £100m left over for astute signings. You live and die by these as a manager, and he's on life support. (FWIW I'm in the 'we're all busy fools until the Glazers have gone' camp, and hope ETH succeeds).
There's no indication Maddison would of been any good here either. Based on so many previous purchases that went backwards here.
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I remember when they players stopped responding to Ralf, OLE, Mourino and LVG.
Sorry I should have been more specific. I meant Mount and Antony
That's mostly his players isn't it? The players he bought not responding to him, oh well..how bad was that.
On what basis have you determined this or is it all conjecture? I’m all for criticism but stating facts when you know nothing is a bit ridiculous
Fun times
What is more damming.....
The players are not responding to the managers instructions?
or
The players are doing as instructed and we are seeing this level of dross?
The players are not responding to the managers instructions?
or
The players are doing as instructed and we are seeing this level of dross?
A more appropriate article would be titled “Ten Hag no longer responding to the obvious”
And would then talk about Rashford always starting, Bruno always starting or playing out of position.
And would then talk about Rashford always starting, Bruno always starting or playing out of position.
Same here mate, that killed me. Game over ( well, it probably was already....)
It is the opinion of one person and a very simplistic one at that: the players are not responding... ok. We can see that.
Well he could have if he didn't by Mount or A keeper.. did the club force him to sign them? I expect a manager to do the right things imo he hasn't with those 2 buys.. Hojlund was a fair by but it could have been so much better..
Now that sounds like it, A MG and Hojlund tandem was probably what was happening, as the Mount and Onana buys were strange before a Striker and everyone and his Mother new we needed a Striker...And I'd heard about The Arnold thing as well and it pissed me off and said so on here and got a warning and banned from replying to the MG thread still am..
Conjecture, the club said it didn't want to pay the money required for a world class striker, this is well documented (before we signed Mount or Onana)
Are people still thinking Harry Kane fixes this shambles? Good lord.
Where has anyone said that? Good lord