Another false dawn?

[noodlehair]

I'm really not sure what point you're trying to make. If those six players were all available and we were playing 4/5 of them on the pitch then maybe you'd have a case here, but none of them played on Sunday and it obviously wasn't by choice. Four were injured and Falcao clearly isn't fully fit. You can't really say "he bought half the team" when very few of the players he bought have had a chance to play together consistently. I think basically the only time most of them did was QPR, a game we were really good in, three months ago.

Personally I'd wait until we see at least a few of them on the pitch at once before passing too much judgement on whether LvG has failed to build a solid team with them.

I said he doesn't know how to set his team up, not that he CAN'T make a solid team. Evidenced by the fact he's changed his formation about 5 different times this season, most recently switching back to the one which has consistently produced our worst performances.

THe injury excuse doesn't quite work since against Southamton and in fact Liverpool, he had the players on the pitch to play with four at the back, and use the exact same system he had in the previous few games. Then he had players on the bench which would further enable him to do so. Against Southampton he used 4 centrebacks during the game yet somehow Michael Carrick played in defence for most of it. That's not an injury forced situation, it's a choice Van Gaal has made.

Similarly, Van Gaal has said the reason Falcao isn't fit is because he needs games, but he doesn't play in them because he isn't fit. This isn't a forced situation either. It's a choice. There's no reason Van Gaal wouldn't be able to play Falcao if he wasn't happy with his other striking options.

I don't get what the problem is here. It takes a special level of delusion to watch our games at the moment and think "yeah, we're really good", but there is no particular player who I would say is performing poorly, so the problem to me is in how the team is set up...and the way we completely change it every few weeks. We have the potential to be playing a lot better than we are. Injuries or not.

 

[MancunianAngels]

This League is utter crap below the top 6.

If we can remain consistent against the rubbish teams, there's no reason why we won't remain comfortably in 3rd and maybe even push for 1 and 2.

 

[Cina]

I said he doesn't know how to set his team up, not that he CAN'T make a solid team. Evidenced by the fact he's changed his formation about 5 different times this season, most recently switching back to the one which has consistently produced our worst performances.

THe injury excuse doesn't quite work since against Southamton and in fact Liverpool, he had the players on the pitch to play with four at the back, and use the exact same system he had in the previous few games. Then he had players on the bench which would further enable him to do so. Against Southampton he used 4 centrebacks during the game yet somehow Michael Carrick played in defence for most of it. That's not an injury forced situation, it's a choice Van Gaal has made.

Similarly, Van Gaal has said the reason Falcao isn't fit is because he needs games, but he doesn't play in them because he isn't fit. This isn't a forced situation either. It's a choice. There's no reason Van Gaal wouldn't be able to play Falcao if he wasn't happy with his other striking options.

I don't get what the problem is here. It takes a special level of delusion to watch our games at the moment and think "yeah, we're really good", but there is no particular player who I would say is performing poorly, so the problem to me is in how the team is set up...and the way we completely change it every few weeks. We have the potential to be playing a lot better than we are. Injuries or not.

I wasn't arguing against any of that though, noodle, it was you saying "he bought half the team" that I thought was a bit ridiculous, because, as I said, none of them played at the weekend and they haven't had a chance to play together since the QPR game. I would simply wait until we at least have those six players fit, if we ever do, before passing that sort of judgement. I find it's completely irrelevant to the argument you're making here.

 

[PedroMendez]

Thie biggest concern for me is I think in general the players are playing quite well. Even the ones I was most critical of last season or earlier in this, are at the very least doing their bit.

The problems always seem to stem from how we set up in games. It seems to become more of mess the more players we have fit, rather than less.

Van Gaal is definitely getting a lot more out of the players than Moyes did, but he doesn't seem to have sussed out at all how to get them playing as a unit. He keeps changing the system, putting no one in midfield, midfielders in defence, etc. The thing is he bought half this team himself, so I'd expect him to at the very least have half an idea how to set them up.

I certainly don't think top four is beyond us. If anything we should be looking to get our act together and put pressure on the two above us, although I think that'd prove beyond us ultimately. It's hard to be completely confident of anything either way when our performances look so fragile yet still get results, though. It could swing wildly one way or the other.

I tend to agree with most of what you say. The team didn’t look good from a tactical point of view. That’s LvG´s responsibility and he needs to improve. Still at the moment the most important objective is to reach top4. I don’t really care how we achieve this, because this season is just the first step towards a new team.

 

[legball]

I like how with Moyes, it was always "give him time" but with LVG people want more, despite picking up 18 points in 6 straight games, everyone is now moaning about playing style and stuff like that. It shows that we have a manager that can deliver, that's nice. We might not be playing well, but we are WINNING and that's the name of the game. Will LVG get us playing football like we've not seen in the past 5-6 years? Without a shawdow of doubt, he will. Does he need to win now [by any means] to restore some confidence in the team and fans, oh yes of course. It's a balance thing. I'd have take an ugly win against Leicester City.

 

[bishblaize]

Thie biggest concern for me is I think in general the players are playing quite well. Even the ones I was most critical of last season or earlier in this, are at the very least doing their bit.

The problems always seem to stem from how we set up in games. It seems to become more of mess the more players we have fit, rather than less.

Van Gaal is definitely getting a lot more out of the players than Moyes did, but he doesn't seem to have sussed out at all how to get them playing as a unit. He keeps changing the system, putting no one in midfield, midfielders in defence, etc. The thing is he bought half this team himself, so I'd expect him to at the very least have half an idea how to set them up.

I certainly don't think top four is beyond us. If anything we should be looking to get our act together and put pressure on the two above us, although I think that'd prove beyond us ultimately. It's hard to be completely confident of anything either way when our performances look so fragile yet still get results, though. It could swing wildly one way or the other.

The more reasonable posters on here took the view that we wouldnt see the best of the club til after Xmas. We all hoped for more of course, but realistically didnt expect things to click before then.

However what's happened is that stuff is coming together in a different order to what we thought. Given Van Gaal's reputation as an organiser and tactician we all probably thought that would be the thing that came first. But a lot of people also thought there'd be a lot of friction between certain players and the coach, and that maybe the morale would be difficult for a while until people eventually bought into his vision.

However in the end the mood in the camp seems great way ahead of schedule. He's getting performances out of players we all thought were gone and most of our better players are in really good form. More importantly we saw in the games against City, Chelsea and Arsenal in particular, this group of players will fight for the manager and the club. After last year's permanent white flag, that alone is a huge development, and maybe the most promising thing we've seen.

Personally I dont doubt that LVG will get the tactics right in the end. Whatever flaws he has, that's not one. But I did originally worry about whether the vibe would be right at the club, and happily he seems to have got that spot on. So while we're not the finished article yet, and probably no further along in our developmental timeline than we expected, I feel more confident than I did before. Because the bit I was most worried about is the bit he seems to have nailed.

 

[SalfordRed1960]

I like how with Moyes, it was always "give him time" but with LVG people want more, despite picking up 18 points in 6 straight games, everyone is now moaning about playing style and stuff like that. It shows that we have a manager that can deliver, that's nice. We might not be playing well, but we are WINNING and that's the name of the game. Will LVG get us playing football like we've not seen in the past 5-6 years? Without a shawdow of doubt, he will. Does he need to win now [by any means] to restore some confidence in the team and fans, oh yes of course. It's a balance thing. I'd have take an ugly win against Leicester City.

LVG is doing rotation due to necessity - with our injuries and suspension, Moyes did rotation for sake of it.
Other than Carrick, I do not recall LVG playing any player out of position. He has chosen to play an inexperienced player in their preferred position, rather than an experienced player out of position.
LVG's team is making progress, DDG and RVP have now restored confidence in the team. On the one hand they opposition make a mistake and RVP will put the ball in the net. On the other, we make a mistale and DDG saves the day. Consistency of team will enable the style to evolve. Looking forward to second half of season.
What does he need more time for, he has demonstrated that he is taking us in the right direction. Let's not kid ourselves the best two squads are at the top of the league as one would expect.

 

[rover]

right after the qpr game i pointed out 3 problems when i was still in the newbie forum. they were: communication, attitude & midfield. unfortunately it was immediately backfired at the lc game.

with more than 10 games played after regroup, it's about time to access.

communication among players would have certainly improved for more games being played. players attitude has also been altered despite improvement just taking place gradually. and it seems that we don't have a good solution to our midfield with the current squad in hand.

the best we can do is to try push up blind into the no 8 role when carrick is there to take care of the no 6. when we play a 4 men midfield, the working rate of blind maybe helpful to compensate for the weakness of his team mates without losing too much of possession. especially if we partner blind to play along side with rooney or herrera or adm. that's the only last solution i can see we shall try out. we may still not be good enough to counter a real very top team, but this should allow us to gain more control when we play against most premier league teams.

we shall not be able to become a formidable team by this season. but thanks for the individual quality of our players and sound tactical work from our new manager, we are most certain we can grind out positive results even we are yet to play the football desired.

 

[Feedingseagulls]

...
THe injury excuse doesn't quite work since against Southamton and in fact Liverpool, he had the players on the pitch to play with four at the back, and use the exact same system he had in the previous few games. Then he had players on the bench which would further enable him to do so. ....

Really? 4 at the back with Valencia and Young as full-backs? In those games?

I will trust LvG's judgement that such a 'solution' would be far more problematic than the issues we face in a 3-5-2

 

[MDFC Manager]

The team didn’t look good from a tactical point of view.

Aesthetic point of view you mean? Tactically we've looked strong IMHO. The chances we've conceded to the opposition aren't tactical faults, its the players making silly errors.

 

[Adebesi]

Other than Carrick, I do not recall LVG playing any player out of position. He has chosen to play an inexperienced player in their preferred position, rather than an experienced player out of position.

That's a bit misleading. Valencia and Young are playing in positions you couldnt call their preferred position. Rooney is playing in midfield, which is not his preferred position at all. Mata has been playing deeper than he would like.

This is a tricky one as Van Gaal would say that some players may have a preferred position until he tells them their "natural" position - not the position they are used to playing but the one that best suits their particular skill set - is some other position, after which they come to prefer playing in this new position. This may happen with certain players in our squad. Maybe Rooney will come to love the influence he has over the game when in midfield. Hard to see it with Mata, he seems to be playing deeper out of necessity rather than it being more suitable for him. Young and Valencia are just taking whatever they can get from our system and Im sure they would rather play wing back than not at all.

Im not sure how important a point that is anyway, I agree with the rest of what you said, about the team making progress. But I dont think Van Gaal is shy about moving players around the pitch into different positions if he thinks they are up to it.

 

[legball]

LVG is doing rotation due to necessity - with our injuries and suspension, Moyes did rotation for sake of it.
Other than Carrick, I do not recall LVG playing any player out of position. He has chosen to play an inexperienced player in their preferred position, rather than an experienced player out of position.
LVG's team is making progress, DDG and RVP have now restored confidence in the team. On the one hand they opposition make a mistake and RVP will put the ball in the net. On the other, we make a mistale and DDG saves the day. Consistency of team will enable the style to evolve. Looking forward to second half of season.
What does he need more time for, he has demonstrated that he is taking us in the right direction. Let's not kid ourselves the best two squads are at the top of the league as one would expect.

Exactly, there's a real belief in the team and they seem to have completely keyed into whatever he's trying to do. These two aspects are the most difficult things to achieve but he has done it, I just find it odd that almost everyone keeps talking about playing style, when confidence/belief [after the debacle of last season] was the most important thing that needed to be restored and he's managed to do it.

 

[SalfordRed1960]

right after the qpr game i pointed out 3 problems when i was still in the newbie forum. they were: communication, attitude & midfield. unfortunately it was immediately backfired at the lc game.

with more than 10 games played after regroup, it's about time to access.

communication among players would have certainly improved for more games being played. players attitude has also been altered despite improvement just taking place gradually. and it seems that we don't have a good solution to our midfield with the current squad in hand.

the best we can do is to try push up blind into the no 8 role when carrick is there to take care of the no 6. when we play a 4 men midfield, the working rate of blind maybe helpful to compensate for the weakness of his team mates without losing too much of possession. especially if we partner blind to play along side with rooney or herrera or adm. that's the only last solution i can see we shall try out. we may still not be good enough to counter a real very top team, but this should allow us to gain more control when we play against most premier league teams.

we shall not be able to become a formidable team by this season. but thanks for the individual quality of our players and sound tactical work from our new manager, we are most certain we can grind out positive results even we are yet to play the football desired.

I don't understand your focus on midfield. Apart from Arsenal doing their usual to us and Southampton I don't recall a game where we have been dominated in midfield. It is clear that in the second half of games LVG has re-positioned the team. Even when I look at the Liverpool game last weekend, Liverpool having slightly more possession was more to do with LVG's philosophy of killing games and sitting back, rather than us going for it when we are ahead or Liverpool going up a gear.
You are also ignoring the injuries and suspensions to our midfield. Blind, ADM, Rooney, and Herrera were starting to establish a raport, an understanding until 1) Rooney got suspended, 2) Blind, Herrera and ADM all got injured. So bringing in a complete new midfield is going to have the same affect as bringing in a total new defense which has happened a lot.

 

[MDFC Manager]

I don't understand your focus on midfield. Apart from Arsenal doing their usual to us and Southampton I don't recall a game where we have been dominated in midfield. It is clear that in the second half of games LVG has re-positioned the team. Even when I look at the Liverpool game last weekend, Liverpool having slightly more possession was more to do with LVG's philosophy of killing games and sitting back, rather than us going for it when we are ahead or Liverpool going up a gear.
You are also ignoring the injuries and suspensions to our midfield. Blind, ADM, Rooney, and Herrera were starting to establish a raport, an understanding until 1) Rooney got suspended, 2) Blind, Herrera and ADM all got injured. So bringing in a complete new midfield is going to have the same affect as bringing in a total new defense which has happened a lot.

Good point. In the cagey games, the gameplan seems to be to score first, then look for counter attacking possibilities.

 

[Mykey]

I've been really surprised of the critcism from the media and most pundits i've seen on tv thinking we've been lucky and what not.
The way I see it is we're alot more like the United we're used to, we can be "outplayed" or not seem to be in games but when we get our chances we're taking them.
Once we see this injury hell even out alittle and we can get more of a settled starting 11 teams should be worried.

 

[sunama]

To be fair we’re relying on our brilliant attacking force and out of this world De Gea (that’s not luck, that’s skill). We have improved our general play, key players seem to be in good form, we have great momentum and confidence, but there is a lot to be done and I expect us to lose points soon.

My thoughts exactly.
If we are getting lucky, we are creating our own luck.

The simple fact is that we now have a great manager at the helm.
Even though we have half our 1st team injured we are grinding out wins and I think we should give the team credit for this.

If Mourinho had half his 1st team injured, I wonder if they'd be winning 6 on the trot.

 

[moses]

We beat Liverpool with what Moyes had at his disposal. The team that took the pitch against Liverpool was transformed from how we approached games last year. Same players, different team.

 

[caisenma]

a year or so ago we had a run of something like 6 wins on the trot, but at no point did it feel like we were on the right track. we didn't have a big wins against arsenal (or did we... i thought that was in october?) and liverpool in that stretch, for a start.

confidence is an amazing thing, and it's nice to see us winning games that we perhaps didn't deserve to (southampton).

 

[noodlehair]

I wasn't arguing against any of that though, noodle, it was you saying "he bought half the team" that I thought was a bit ridiculous, because, as I said, none of them played at the weekend and they haven't had a chance to play together since the QPR game. I would simply wait until we at least have those six players fit, if we ever do, before passing that sort of judgement. I find it's completely irrelevant to the argument you're making here.

But it was also a throw away single sentence within the point I was making which you picked up on. "He bought half the team"...he's bought 6 players, which makes over half a team. If he was buying an entire team he'd be over half way there, plus what he already had when he got here. Therefore he should have an idea what he's doing with the players he has by now, rahter than using an unworkable system which he's still changing on average about every two weeks.

I don't think that's particularly unreasonable. I levelled the same thing at Moyes this time last year when he was changing half his starting line up from one game to the next. The difference is under Van Gaal the players are at least performing rather than hiding. If they'd been performing the way they were last year in the set up Van Gaal used against Liverpool we'd be losing every game.

There is credit in there for Van Gaal for sure, but criticism as well.

 

[Cina]

But it was also a throw away single sentence within the point I was making which you picked up on. "He bought half the team"...he's bought 6 players, which makes over half a team. If he was buying an entire team he'd be over half way there, plus what he already had when he got here. Therefore he should have an idea what he's doing with the players he has by now, rahter than using an unworkable system which he's still changing on average about every two weeks.

I don't think that's particularly unreasonable. I levelled the same thing at Moyes this time last year when he was changing half his starting line up from one game to the next. The difference is under Van Gaal the players are at least performing rather than hiding. If they'd been performing the way they were last year in the set up Van Gaal used against Liverpool we'd be losing every game.

There is credit in there for Van Gaal for sure, but criticism as well.

I'd agree with you on every point if almost every player in our team wasn't getting injured and we were actually able to put out the same XI every week but he wasn't doing that.

 

[togg]

There is absolutely no doubt that something is happening to this united team. There is no way that LVG feels happy with what he has or how we are playing..I mean he says this every week. But we are winning. However, there is no doubt that United, as a business, are starting to join the 'big boys' and are going to start to buy top players in all positions over the next year or so. For a lot of fans, especially the older ones like me, that is going to take some getting used to. We very rarely bought top class players, we tended to buy prospects (ie Ronaldo) or players that would die for the club (Bruce, Pallister etc). Sure we bought Veron, but back then it didn't seem quite right. It was a bit of an anomaly from Fergie. I truly believe..that the class of 99 will never happen again, purely because the industry demands so much more in much less time.

 

[Fergus' son]

But it was also a throw away single sentence within the point I was making which you picked up on. "He bought half the team"...he's bought 6 players, which makes over half a team. If he was buying an entire team he'd be over half way there, plus what he already had when he got here. Therefore he should have an idea what he's doing with the players he has by now, rahter than using an unworkable system which he's still changing on average about every two weeks.

I don't think that's particularly unreasonable. I levelled the same thing at Moyes this time last year when he was changing half his starting line up from one game to the next. The difference is under Van Gaal the players are at least performing rather than hiding. If they'd been performing the way they were last year in the set up Van Gaal used against Liverpool we'd be losing every game.

There is credit in there for Van Gaal for sure, but criticism as well.

He probably does know the best system to fit in the 'half a team' he has bought. Point is that we won't know what this system is, or see it in practice, until we actually get a chance to field them together.

 

[PedroMendez]

Aesthetic point of view you mean? Tactically we've looked strong IMHO. The chances we've conceded to the opposition aren't tactical faults, its the players making silly errors.

The whole 5-x-x experiment hasn’t worked yet and that’s not only the fault of the players. Furthermore we played a couple of matches where we played great offense, but lacked any balance and we also played a couple of games, where we hardly created anything, while having great control.
LvG is experimenting a lot. Part of this is down to injuries, but that’s not the only reason for many of those changes. He just hasn’t found a balanced lineup yet. I think that’s primarily down to the squad, but we´ll see.
For me the relevant objective is to reach top4. Not long ago I was overly pessimistic, but the team got results so kudos to LvG and the players. I still won’t start raving about our performances, because they were fairly “mixed”, but for now results are enough for me.

 

[RoadTrip]

Forget the fact we aren't playing well, forget the fact we have injuries, forget the fact we don't look great to watch and forget the fact our tactics change every week.

Football analysis vastly focuses on the tangibles like above, but very rarely on the intangibles. Confidence, a togetherness, a unified direction, and a spirit in each of our players is what has carried is so far this season.

It's easy for the media and whoever else to say we have been lucky, but actually, we have created our own luck because of the passion we have shown in games.

I said it last year; the one thing that shocked me more than anything was that our players didn't look like they would die for the shirt on their back. But now, they do. They give it all in every game.

That intangible, easily ignorable, but significantly important. These intangibles are often hard to "build". You need a coherence between coaches and team, and a genuine trust between management, coaches, and players. Things like tactics you can eventually perfect. Injuries wil eventually be overcome. With enough time players will at least to a certain extent adapt to tactics. But these intangibles, you don't train them. Either they are there or they are not. And that's why I am happy to see that and why I do believe eventually we will get it right.

 

[Oneunited26]

I have been raising a few eyebrows over some of the comments. For me a sign of a good manager, is able to adapt to situations when its injury's, changing systems and the ability to deal with the cards he has been dealt with, rafeal, young, jones, smalling, rojo, evans, shaw, valencia, carrick, blind, herrera, di maria, rooney suspension, VP, Falcao, all have been unavailable in different parts of the season. What VG has done is create what united lost last year under Moyes, a winning mentality. United for me are going into games, and knowing this team is very good at winning games, and that is a champions mentality.

Many forgot at the start of the season and before, the club has a whole was basically wiped out has a club in terms of an elite club competing. Miles behind a title challenging club, Moyes ruining the teams winning mentality we forgot how to win, and small clubs felt they could beat us, fergie never helped in the condition he left the squad in was never going to carry an average joe like david moyes. I would call united in the summer and just after Moyes was sacked in april, stark house reeling from the red wedding completely wiped out has a force, while the others got stronger we were in ruin. I look at united now, its turning back into what it once was, a winning team. The board willing to spend big, the team has been drilled in how to win again, and we are going to midtable teams and winning the matches. So overall we are getting there, we still need a few players, 2 or 3 defenders, a couple of midfielders and a striker, we will have a team that can nail their place has a top 4 team, and looking to challenge for the title every season

 

[robinamicrowave]

United being third is evidence of how far ahead City and Chelsea are at the moment, but you're showing a belief, resilience and ruthlessness that should develop and eventually see you into the top 4.

 

[MTR]

a year or so ago we had a run of something like 6 wins on the trot.

Yep, including Stoke in League Cup and Shakhtar in UCL.

4 was the longest in the league.

 

[Moonred]

How exactly are we poor overall? We are poor in defense with half the team unfit. Granted. But attackwise we are ruthless in conversion. Liverpool are a definition of poor, can't finish, can't defend.

 

[Deleted member 78215]

United being third is evidence of how far ahead City and Chelsea are at the moment, but you're showing a belief, resilience and ruthlessness that should develop and eventually see you into the top 4.

We have been inundated with injuries, our performances have been all over the shop, and yet City are only 5 points ahead of us. Tell me, how does that evidence "how far ahead" City are?

 

[stepic]

I for one like the fact LVG is experimenting with different formations. The ability to switch tactics from.one game to the next or even within a game is surely an attribute for the players. Sure they will take some time learning the new systems but it will only be beneficial in the long run.

Also have no problem playing 3 at the back against Southampton and Liverpool. Both difficult games where it would be a bit stupid to rely on two converted wingers in de fence plus a teenager. I think given the injuries LVG has been pretty remarkable to have us where we are.

 

[Oneunited26]

We have been inundated with injuries, our performances have been all over the shop, and yet City are only 5 points ahead of us. Tell me, how does that evidence "how far ahead" City are?

Adding the fact we stayed in the game city away with 10 men from the 39th minute, and we could have beaten chelsea at OT. So this idea we are that far behind is laughable

 

[Adebesi]

@septic I agree. This 3 at the back thing might not be brilliant yet, but it's new. If we get better at it and it helps us be more tactically flexible that's got to be a good thing. Tho I do hope 4 at the back remains the default option.

 

[MDFC Manager]

I for one like the fact LVG is experimenting with different formations. The ability to switch tactics from.one game to the next or even within a game is surely an attribute for the players. Sure they will take some time learning the new systems but it will only be beneficial in the long run.

Also have no problem playing 3 at the back against Southampton and Liverpool. Both difficult games where it would be a bit stupid to rely on two converted wingers in de fence plus a teenager. I think given the injuries LVG has been pretty remarkable to have us where we are.

I'm with you on both those points. It's important for us to know a couple of formations which we can bring out depending on the opposition or game situation. Will hold the lads in good stead in the future

 

[Globule]

I'm not happy with recent performances, particularly the Southampton and Arsenal matches, but I'm happy with the way LvG is managing us. We are giving too many chances away, mostly from stupid mistakes, and at some point it's going to bite us on the ass, but I don't think 3-5-2 is entirely to blame. No formation should excuse some of the individual errors we've made.

Our defence has looked shaky, particularly on the ball, so putting a seasoned head back there in Carrick is understandable. His performance justified the decision. He was our best defender and adds a bit of calm back there. Part of the problem we've had is that Blind is injured. We really need Carrick in defence and midfield at the moment, and Blind is the nearest to him in that regard. Our defence don't have someone in front of them to offer protection when we don't have the ball, nor the calm head to pass to when we do have it. They have Fellaini. That's why Mata and Rooney are being asked to drop deeper.

We've got 6 wins on the trot, but who knows what's going to happen in the next 6 games. Whatever happens, I still see signs of progression in this team. LvG is getting a better understanding of the players at his disposal. The team is (slowly) getting to terms with being more tactically flexible. Young players are being treated well and getting game time. These are things that are going to stand us in good stead in the long-term. We might not feel the full benefits this season, or even under LvG's reign, but we will eventually.

All we really need now is for the injuries to start easing off, because it shouldn't be forgotten that LvG is doing all this with one arm tied behind his back. How many other teams could have coped as well as we have with the injuries we've suffered.

 

[Gannicus]

This is nowhere near the squad Louis would have built had he been able to start with a clean slate, but he's done very well to make the squad that he has begin playing like a team. I use the word "begin" carefully as we only see glimpses of solid play even against crap sides like Liverpool and Stoke.

Under a rebuilt Louis Van Gaal side, if we can grind out the results to return to the CL and if we supporters can be patient enough to put with meh performances against the Villas of the world, good things will come. The cash reserves seem to be real. We're in good hands under this management.

 

[robinamicrowave]

We have been inundated with injuries, our performances have been all over the shop, and yet City are only 5 points ahead of us. Tell me, how does that evidence "how far ahead" City are?

Nice to see you ignored my positive comments for the sake of starting argument but since you asked for it...

Injuries aren't the only thing that separates us, and if you're 5 points behind us come the end of the season that's still the difference between one or two places in the table. You've pretty much nailed it on - your performances have been all over the shop. Sooner or later that's going to work against you in more ways than one.

You're in transition in the same way we were in 2011 - better teams in more difficult games will ultimately cost you points more than it will us and Chelsea, but you'll still have more than enough about you to be in the "title race" until about mid March before dropping away a little. You're more than good enough to finish top 4 but there's far too much working against you to win the league.

You use injuries as an excuse for you being 3rd as though they're going to stop happening all of a sudden - they won't. You think Jones is going to stop lunging into tackles and injuring himself? You think Smalling won't pull up with a calf injury every 3 weeks? Rafael? Shaw? Falcao? You're learning Van Gaal's ways with a squad that's not good enough or big enough to win a title.

You can use injuries, we can use the fact that we had a much harder start than you on paper and still managed to end up in front of you. You've won 6 on the bounce but the only difficult game you've had in that run was the Arsenal game, and even they've not had the best season. It's easy to get carried away after winning a few games but a couple of defeats and this place will be doom central again.

You're going to finish in the top 4, that much is a given. You're showing more fight than Arsenal, Liverpool, Spurs, Everton, Southampton, Swansea - basically any of these teams who'll make up the top half. But you've not managed to show anything that will push you into the top 2. You've had injuries, granted, but you say that like we haven't.

We're not far behind you in terms of the number of injuries we've had either, especially to Kompany (4 weeks), Kolarov (6 weeks), Fernando (6 weeks), Silva (7 weeks), Fernandinho (4 weeks), Dzeko (4 weeks), Jovetic (5 weeks), Nasri (5 weeks) and Aguero (5 weeks) - you know, our key players. A couple of knocks and suspensions and we're about level.

The fact that you're using injuries as an excuse at all is evidence that you're not good enough to win the title.

 

[Adebesi]

Youre right that you are better than us, it isnt only injuries that separates us. But our injury crisis is far worse than anything youve had to contend with. Partly because of the concentration of injuries in one position we've had, and partly because you have more quality in reserve than we do.

 

[robinamicrowave]

partly because you have more quality in reserve than we do.

That's where the distance starts for me.

Agreed on your other point, to be fair.

 

[rover]

@SalfordRed1960,

this is not good enough for we are not being dominated by others, this is exactly the point that we are not capable, yet at least, to dominate the others.

the switching personnel in defense was different from the switching personnel in midfield. in defense it's completely due to the injuries, but lvg didn't change his game plan there unless we were totally running out of central defenders. he only picked players who were available to play a system he employed for a particular opponent. he didn't play them out of their position

and that's not the case in midfield. even without much injury problems there earlier of the season (sept & oct), after the lc game which exposed our weakness we then kept changing the system to look for a balance of which we could have clicked and made us the dominant. but we failed to get one until we turned to fellaini to rely on his physical strength to restore the balance.

but this is barely the football desired lvg would like to see. as he just said, we were yet to perform well even once which was close to a perfect game. and his perfect game is definitely to contain opponents by playing the ball under our feet. we shall see rooney to play more in midfield for the rest of the season even we are going to be injury free.

i expected we should have been able to dominate most premier league teams (everton, tottenham, newcastle aka teams) before the end of this season. i am still holding this view just now i don't know if we can achieve.

 

[bosnian_red]

Really? 4 at the back with Valencia and Young as full-backs? In those games?

I will trust LvG's judgement that such a 'solution' would be far more problematic than the issues we face in a 3-5-2

Everyone seems to ignore this for some reason. Van Gaal has only ever gone 3-5-2 when our fullbacks were injured and was forced to play young and/or Valencia there. Even then, against easier opponents at home he plays the diamond, but against bigger teams he plays a 3-5-2 so he has the extra man back there even if it means sacrificing Carrick from midfield and pushing him back. Playing a diamond away to arsenal/Southampton or against Liverpool would be suicidal with Valencia and young as fullbacks, so until we get backups for those positions, we'll continue to use it as long as our starting full backs are out injured.