The performances have been patchy bar the one against Hull but hopefully the wins will see more confidence added to our play.
Another false dawn?
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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Leicester stuck five past us!
I'll be honest, when Shaw and Rafael picked up their customary injuries I was shitting myself about our defensive frailties ... But, hand on heart, I have to say Young and Valencia as makeshift wing-backs have more often than not in recent games, done us proud!
Credit these Lads were its due. They are putting a shift in.
Until we get stuffed by Burnley at home I would persist with both of 'em!
Credit these Lads were its due. They are putting a shift in.
Until we get stuffed by Burnley at home I would persist with both of 'em!
We're struggling to track runners through the channels and to build attacks from the back. Both of those weaknesses are down to playing a back 3 imo. I expect them to be resolved once everyone's fit (though Rafael himself is hardly the best positionally). We'll look much better with a flat back 4. It's shocking that our backup fullbacks are wingers/midfielders that require us to change formation.
I question the decision to sell Buttner. I know he's not the best player but surely having no alternative leftback is a bad scenario. We need specialist players, 2 men to a position to provide competition. As well as Valencia and Young have played under the circumstances, the back 3 is crippling us offensively.
If you have a great striker who converts even the slightest of chances, you are called clinical. 4-3 is called a great win. If you have a great keeper who saves even the most remote shots, you are called lucky. 1-0 is called a scrambled result.
I call it 3 points.
Questioning not having a backup right back is the right thing to do. For left back we have Rojo and Blind.
IIRC, both have looked dodgy when played there this season. We need proper fullbacks to backup our broken ones.
When has any United team been free of flaws? Even the best of them have needed those Fergie time winners and miraculous comebacks. But they all had guts and detrmination to go with the talent. I can see that in this team. LVG's confidence is contagious and we're just getting started.
True, but there's only so much you can spend on one particular position. At some point, Shaw will start keeping fit regularly (
). No hope left in the case of Rafa though. We need to buy there.Yep, I'm anally force feeding it.
The change in font made that even more sinister.
Yeah I don't know what happened there.
We have been poor and getting away with it. It won't continue for long. They seriously have to pull their finger out.
Yeah, otherwise there'd be no route to anally force feed.
He wanted out the moment LVG was confirmed manager
Great? No. Poor? Not at all. You don't win 6 in a row by being poor. There sure is room for improvement, but i'd take a scruffy victory over a narrow defeat/draw any day of the week. Also, out fortune have been greatly exaggerated imo. DDG saved our hides against Everton, true, but even for all their possession, Arsenal struggled to create something against us. We beat Liverpool 3-0, i would hardly call that poor
When you look back to the Fergie days, there were tonnes of instances where we played like shite, conceded and had to use our legendary comeback abilities to secure a win in injury time. When you look back to Fergies last season we were hardly spectacular, but we were fortunate to have a certain Dutchman up front who conjured up goals from nothing time and time again.
Also, you have to consider the relatively poor form of our top players this season. Rooney has done his usual routine of being brilliant one game, then shite the next (hes been mostly good though) while RvP is just starting now to pick up the pace. ADM has struggled a little lately and has also had some injury issues.
Last but not least, our defense have been ravaged by injures. How many back lines have we had this season 17? 18? Chopping and changing like that will have huge consequences. Not only for the defense, but for the team as a whole
Plus he was shit.
Exactly
Buttner was a weird case. At times he could do some dribbling and defending that made him look world-class, but his positional play is some of the worst i've ever seen. All brawn and no brains i guess
He didn't seem to understand how offside works. Obviously a problem for a defender.
He had arguably his best ever game for us against Bayern Munich. Not sure how that works but I suppose he was motivated enough and sitting deep helped him concentrate on marking rather than keeping an offside line. Either way he definitely had the potential, just never was going to get it all rolled into 1.
People still seem to be forgetting we still had key players out injured/returning from injury during the past 6 games. Of course we are going to look vulnerable - take Terry, Ivanovic, Az and Cahill out of that Chelsea side and have Mikel playing centre back and tell me they wouldn't look vulnerable as well, it seems to be a point that's constantly overlooked.
They don't even need that many injuries. Just Matic being out was enough to destabilize them. Which just goes to show how well we've done
Thing is, a lot of the players we have out injured are extremely likely to be injured again quite soon. The same isn't true of those Chelsea players. So it isn't really a case of bad luck that could potentially even out, it's another genuine weakness in the squad.
Exactly, its not just the odd games either, its been the whole season.
While I don't disagree, to have the sheer quantity of injuries we've had is incredibly unusual, Its not going to be the case that this trend continue forever, it should ease up significantly.
We are still playing like utter shite while winning games. One of these two things will change very soon. I'm not sure which but I've not seen much to make me confident it will be the former. Van Gaal going back to that ridiculous unworkable system doesn't exactly help. We almost looked ok in the two games prior to that.
Also,
at the idea there's only two teams in the country who are capable of stuffing us, in a season where we've already been stuffed by Leicester and MK Dons.
Also,
at the idea there's only two teams in the country who are capable of stuffing us, in a season where we've already been stuffed by Leicester and MK Dons.I think RVP was always going to start slowly after his exertions at the World Cup.
Falcao may even have been bought as RVP insurance.
Only now is RVP's form reappearing, and that should make us bullish for the future.
Falcao may even have been bought as RVP insurance.
Only now is RVP's form reappearing, and that should make us bullish for the future.
I am also not entirely convinced byour performances yet, but you have to cut the team some slack. Its fantastic to win 6 matches in a row and we are in a decent position right now. The objective is to reach top4 and we are right on course. Even if we lose 1-2 games, we´ll still be ahead of Arsenal/pool. No doubt that Liverpool´s implosion and Arsenal being Arsenal is helping us a lot.We are still playing like utter shite while winning games. One of these two things will change very soon. I'm not sure which but I've not seen much to make me confident it will be the former. Van Gaal going back to that ridiculous unworkable system doesn't exactly help. We almost looked ok in the two games prior to that.
Also,
Individually the team has time to improve without having incredible pressure and some of the injured players can recover. I think many of our players are playing on a decent level. De Gea and Rooney are very good. RvP is finding his shooting boots. Young/Valencia doing decent jobs as wingbacks. Carrick, Fellaini and Herrera are good. Some of the youngsters played well.
Our biggest problems come from weird tactics, still if individuals perform on a decent level we´ll continue to get points regardless of the lineup.
LvG has to improve his team selection/lineup, but the squad is still incredible unbalanced so I don’t expect any miracles in that regard. He has to improvise a lot with this squad and all the injured players. Mistakes were made in the transfer window and they just have to work around them for now. LvG/Woody have to fix this after the season.
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In the long run team creating more chances to score and preventing the opposition to do the same wins. We are far from being that team at the moment, although I expect us to improve massively once Smalling, Rafael, Shaw, Di Maria and Blind get back to fitness. The problem is, there is nothing to suggest our injury problems will suddenly stop (beside the fact that we’re unbelievably unfortunate this season in that regard).
To be fair we’re relying on our brilliant attacking force and out of this world De Gea (that’s not luck, that’s skill). We have improved our general play, key players seem to be in good form, we have great momentum and confidence, but there is a lot to be done and I expect us to lose points soon.
Just imagine how good we will be once in full strength.
To be fair we’re relying on our brilliant attacking force and out of this world De Gea (that’s not luck, that’s skill). We have improved our general play, key players seem to be in good form, we have great momentum and confidence, but there is a lot to be done and I expect us to lose points soon.
Just imagine how good we will be once in full strength.
Sure I should have added the caveat of the team with recent midfield performances as I feel we have shored things up and have made it difficult for teams to score against us since the Leicester match.Also,
The Leicester game is the freak stuffing that caused Van Gaal to stop underestimating teams and the let the midfield be completely open as it was before. It has inhibited us going forward but I honestly if we can get our defenders back we will be difficult to get stuffed by barring those two teams. MK Dons result was against Vermijl, James, Evans, M Keane in defence with Anderson, Janko, Kagawa and Powell in midfield. Sure if we play that team again I could see us getting stuffed by more than those two teams.
Thie biggest concern for me is I think in general the players are playing quite well. Even the ones I was most critical of last season or earlier in this, are at the very least doing their bit.
The problems always seem to stem from how we set up in games. It seems to become more of mess the more players we have fit, rather than less.
Van Gaal is definitely getting a lot more out of the players than Moyes did, but he doesn't seem to have sussed out at all how to get them playing as a unit. He keeps changing the system, putting no one in midfield, midfielders in defence, etc. The thing is he bought half this team himself, so I'd expect him to at the very least have half an idea how to set them up.
I certainly don't think top four is beyond us. If anything we should be looking to get our act together and put pressure on the two above us, although I think that'd prove beyond us ultimately. It's hard to be completely confident of anything either way when our performances look so fragile yet still get results, though. It could swing wildly one way or the other.
That's an unbelievable overstatement, considering absolutely zero of the first eleven against Liverpool were players he bought.
Because four of them were injured and another two left out by his own choice
He's brought in Herrera, Shaw, Blind, Falcao, Di Maria, Rojo.
That's six players. Even IF he wanted to build a team from scratch, there's over half of it. The fact he leaves two on the bench through choice should indicate he's happy with the people in his team. Yet the team looks like a patched together tactical mess.
He's brought in Herrera, Shaw, Blind, Falcao, Di Maria, Rojo.
That's six players. Even IF he wanted to build a team from scratch, there's over half of it. The fact he leaves two on the bench through choice should indicate he's happy with the people in his team. Yet the team looks like a patched together tactical mess.
Blind Rojo and Shaw is all more than enough for left back (injuries have crippled us in that position) Buttner would be over kill and to be honest Young has produced more so far as left wing back than Buttner ever did. We are going/gone through an unfortunate patch regarding injuries that's all. If anything it's quality we need to improve on not quantity.
This is the worrying bit- we had what 2-3 shots on target in each of the Liverpool, Arsenal and Southampton games but still managed to win. That is not sustainable and won't keep happening if we don't create more going forward and tighten up at the back.
Yeah, definitely agree with this. Although I am struggling to think of a suitable LB.
The way we're defending and getting away with it reminds me of the start we had in the 2011-12 season. We were winning games but giving away too many chances and eventually it all came to a head against City, after which we had to hit the restart button. Keep playing three at the back and we're going to be in trouble when we come up against an in form striker.
I'm really not sure what point you're trying to make. If those six players were all available and we were playing 4/5 of them on the pitch then maybe you'd have a case here, but none of them played on Sunday and it obviously wasn't by choice. Four were injured and Falcao clearly isn't fully fit. You can't really say "he bought half the team" when very few of the players he bought have had a chance to play together consistently. I think basically the only time most of them did was QPR, a game we were really good in, three months ago.
Personally I'd wait until we see at least a few of them on the pitch at once before passing too much judgement on whether LvG has failed to build a solid team with them.
Our team is depleted and we're still winning. I'm delighted with how it's going.
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