Jose wanted Pogba even when he was Chelsea manager. Ed won't be calling any shots.
Another transfer window would not solve our footballing, It's all about Mourinho's approach.
- Thread starter deafepl
- Start date
I just want to know what the plan is. Do we even have a plan? Are we looking to the future or is it just splashing money at the problem hoping something sticks? He doesn't seem to know our best 11, he doesn't know the system that gets the best out of our players, how is this even possible after 300m+ spent and almost 2 years coaching the squad? It's criminal.
As far as I am concerned, Mourinho > LVG > Moyes.
His approach is very cautious. Minimal risk taking, but he has also shown he can create a United side which can attack (4-0s at the beginning of the season).
I am willing to stick with Mourinho. At least he is bringing in the trophies and I do see a better team than under the last 2 managers. I feel we will be challenging for the EPL next season.
His approach is very cautious. Minimal risk taking, but he has also shown he can create a United side which can attack (4-0s at the beginning of the season).
I am willing to stick with Mourinho. At least he is bringing in the trophies and I do see a better team than under the last 2 managers. I feel we will be challenging for the EPL next season.
Good post. Does make for depressing reading though.
On the OP, I completely agree. Our solution seems to be to throw more money at players, hand them fatter paychecks and hope that it will somehow translate into better football. There is no excuse for the tumescent shite that is being dished out. Mourinho blames the players for not performing, blames the fans for not cheering, in short blames everyone but himself. It is a real pity the way things are turning out.
I think the difference lies in everyone knowing Moyes was wayyyyy out of his depth. He was more ridiculed in disbelief, than hated. With Jose it's a bit different.
I hear alot about Mourinho having a go at players. I rather have his approach than to be Wenger-like in protecting under performing players.
I remember the forum when Moyes was here. People were literally rooting for the team lose so Moyes would get sacked quicker. We are nowhere close to how toxic the forum was back then. Even during the horror run of form we had with Van Gaal it was not as toxic as it was during the Moyes season. Plus every Moyes related thread in the Football Forum becomes a Moyes bashing session. Mourinho is definitely not as hated as Moyes is here.
Ah good. This was the one thread this forum was missing.
What's the point when our bloke's approach isn't working either?
Those results weren't created from beautiful football though, just having a slender 1-0 lead until the dying minutes. Once the other team said "all or nothing" and opened up, then we scored lots on the counter with a fresh Martial.
That has stopped working, our attack just doesn't have a clue what it's doing. We create very little chances in the last 4-5 matches, even against dross like Newcastle and Huddersfield.
This. People who keep talking about those 4-0s earlier in the season either have short memories or are deliberately overlooking facts to fit their agendas. Against Swansea we were tumescent until they opened up and we scored 3 in the last 10 minutes. Against Everton we took an early lead but then barely threatened until the 80th minute. West Ham and Palace were the only games where we truly dominated from start to finish. A lot of people on here even then were making the point that we were flattering to deceive and this approach will not be sustainable but they were shouted down by the so called "positive" fans.
I get what OP is saying but is it necessary to have about 8 threads about the same thing?
Mega threads are throwned upon. You can't get your message across unless you make your own post TBH. Don't have an issue about it, lots of fans are unhappy and rightly so.
But we're 7th and become a laughing stock of europe with moyes. And there's less scrutiny than today. Not to mention all the stupid things he said like aspiring to be city's level.
With mourinho people are baying for his head on a plate even when we're 2nd.
Didn't mean megathreads. For instance this can easily be discussed in Jose performances thread.
If you're counting that as a trophy, then count Liverpools Asia Cup or whatever it was as one too, throw in Englands 98 tournament as well prior to the world cup. Really scraping the barrel regarding the Charity shield as a trophy and you can't honestly say you wouldn't swap last seasons Uefa Cup and the league Cup to be in the position Man City are this season. You need to take your Mourinho glasses off and realise your club is being stifled under him, and the cups he won are a smokescreen much like Wengers FA cups.
As a rival, I'd prefer to see Mourinho carry on being your manager. That says it all about the man and his outdated tactics. That squad should instill fear into other clubs, and it just doesn't, nobody fears United now.
Edit, it added the wrong quote. Doh! I'm sure peeps know which one it was meant to be
All depends on what you prefer, you could be a Spurs fan and watch a team absolutely full of talent in most positions yet win nothing to date. You could be a Liverpool fan that batter clubs in the first 20 mins that the games over by half time, and still win nothing. A fan of Chelsea that's always about drama from one season to the next which tarnishs their achieves or Arsenal who wins the FA cup yet never even look close to winning the league and are fighting again for a CL spot.
Utd for me is so Jose but you know what you generally get from him Already proven last season and probably the same this one. It's taken an unprecedented city season for us to not be challenging for the league and I wouldnt be surprised if we did make the semi of the CL. That would be so Jose. He knows how to get the job done, just it's not always pretty. Style over substance is great but you don't get any trophies for that, and we all know if that was the case, that would be the argument instead.
Utd for me is so Jose but you know what you generally get from him Already proven last season and probably the same this one. It's taken an unprecedented city season for us to not be challenging for the league and I wouldnt be surprised if we did make the semi of the CL. That would be so Jose. He knows how to get the job done, just it's not always pretty. Style over substance is great but you don't get any trophies for that, and we all know if that was the case, that would be the argument instead.
I hate this parking the bus. There is no need to be wary of attacking sometimes. We have some great forwards in our side but Sanchez, Martial, and Lukaku, need Pogba in the side ( Roaming) to get the best out of them. Mourinho will have to find the right formation to play a 4-3-3 or whatever, with Pogba the Midfielder pressing..
So Wenger's approach is clearly the best. Not sure why you haven't listed him.
Any trophies > Zero trophies
Whats Klopp's smokescreen?If you're counting that as a trophy, then count Liverpools Asia Cup or whatever it was as one too, throw in Englands 98 tournament as well prior to the world cup. Really scraping the barrel regarding the Charity shield as a trophy and you can't honestly say you wouldn't swap last seasons Uefa Cup and the league Cup to be in the position Man City are this season. You need to take your Mourinho glasses off and realise your club is being stifled under him, and the cups he won are a smokescreen much like Wengers FA cups.
As a rival, I'd prefer to see Mourinho carry on being your manager. That says it all about the man and his outdated tactics. That squad should instill fear into other clubs, and it just doesn't, nobody fears United now.
Edit, it added the wrong quote. Doh! I'm sure peeps know which one it was meant to be
Compare apples to apples. Conte has recently achieved more than Jose. Spurs are actually brilliant because of their coach, their transfers, whereas United have all the resources and players yet are out of title challenge in Nov for 2 seasons in a row. At the end of the last season we started to fall out of top 4 and totally gave up on that quite realistic target. Went on to win EL to secure CL this season. Compare net spends and see how well we are doing. Conte and Pep have done better than Jose. Nothing there to suggest that Jose is still one of the best in the prem let alone world. Lets see where we finish in the prem this season, I guess it will not be even 2nd place.
There's no point signing players without a system.
And Mourinho was sacked by Chelsea. When they were mid-table, not three days after winning a cup and finishing 3rd in the Bundesliga. That in a season when his team actually suffered a fecking bomb attack. Oh, he had also lost Mkhitaryan, Hummels and Gundogan the summer before.
I'm not saying Tuchel is definitely the right man for Manchester United but this kind of simplistic reasoning - sacked by Dortmund = bad - is beyond annoying. And I very much hope Woodward will be slightly more imaginative with the next managerial appointment than looking at the length of the CV, otherwise we'll end up with someone who is past his sell-by date but has lots of shiny trophies to his name. Like Van Gaal.
Again, Wenger was the most successful manager in 2017 then. Two trophies with the fraction of his rivals' spending.
First post on this board, so I'm going to try and be diplomatic and hold back a little.
I wanted Mourinho to take over from Fergie. It would have been the ideal replacement, as Fergie really was a pragmatist towards the end, so it could have been a fairly smooth (ish) takeover, and I believe Jose would have won us at least one league title over those 3 years. I gotta say, I was distraught when we hired Moyes, could not believe what we were doing.
But what's done is done.
The trouble now though, is football has moved on rapidly in those 4 and a half years since Fergie retired with Pep, Klopp and Poch arriving. They've raised the bar. And Mourinho hasn't changed. I'm not sure if he can change. Yes, we're ahead of Klopp and Poch in the league, just about, but look at how much we've spent, and it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if they go past us this season.
It is easy with hindsight to say now I suppose, but when we fired LVG, we should have tried to build on what LVG was trying to do, and brought in a more progressive manager and combined LVG's possession style football with a high pressing quick tempo, that would have been the smooth transition, compared to ripping up everything he did and more or less starting again with Jose.
At least under LVG, we normally put in a good performance against the big teams, granted there were some poor performances away against Arsenal & Spurs, but there were also some of our best performances in years against City and Liverpool. Of course LVG had to go, and granted, Jose is much better at putting away the dross, but there was something to build on there after LVG.
Now, and it is even more evident against the better teams, we can barely string 4 passes together when we are under the cosh, we really struggle to alleviate the pressure because of this, especially away from home, we just have no composure or confidence to hold onto the ball and take the pressure off ourselves and build something from defence. The defenders hoof the ball forward and it just comes straight back to us. And that has to be down to the coaching.
It is brutal to watch, and I don't think Jose can change. There is no way he can challenge for a title ever again playing this way. 12 years ago yes, even 3 years ago yes, today, nope. The bar has been raised considerably.
And in case anyone hasn't noticed, there is an arms race going on right, the Premier League is becoming more and more global, so we can not be left behind with this tumescent style of football while our competitors are picking up new fans all round the world. The board are finally putting their hands in their pockets after years of under investment, but we need a new vision now on the training ground I'm afraid to say.
Jose has to go, he was once one of the best in the world, but he's now a dinosaur, he's a victim of how quickly football has moved forward, and a home win on Sunday against Chelsea will not change that (IMHO).
I wanted Mourinho to take over from Fergie. It would have been the ideal replacement, as Fergie really was a pragmatist towards the end, so it could have been a fairly smooth (ish) takeover, and I believe Jose would have won us at least one league title over those 3 years. I gotta say, I was distraught when we hired Moyes, could not believe what we were doing.
But what's done is done.
The trouble now though, is football has moved on rapidly in those 4 and a half years since Fergie retired with Pep, Klopp and Poch arriving. They've raised the bar. And Mourinho hasn't changed. I'm not sure if he can change. Yes, we're ahead of Klopp and Poch in the league, just about, but look at how much we've spent, and it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if they go past us this season.
It is easy with hindsight to say now I suppose, but when we fired LVG, we should have tried to build on what LVG was trying to do, and brought in a more progressive manager and combined LVG's possession style football with a high pressing quick tempo, that would have been the smooth transition, compared to ripping up everything he did and more or less starting again with Jose.
At least under LVG, we normally put in a good performance against the big teams, granted there were some poor performances away against Arsenal & Spurs, but there were also some of our best performances in years against City and Liverpool. Of course LVG had to go, and granted, Jose is much better at putting away the dross, but there was something to build on there after LVG.
Now, and it is even more evident against the better teams, we can barely string 4 passes together when we are under the cosh, we really struggle to alleviate the pressure because of this, especially away from home, we just have no composure or confidence to hold onto the ball and take the pressure off ourselves and build something from defence. The defenders hoof the ball forward and it just comes straight back to us. And that has to be down to the coaching.
It is brutal to watch, and I don't think Jose can change. There is no way he can challenge for a title ever again playing this way. 12 years ago yes, even 3 years ago yes, today, nope. The bar has been raised considerably.
And in case anyone hasn't noticed, there is an arms race going on right, the Premier League is becoming more and more global, so we can not be left behind with this tumescent style of football while our competitors are picking up new fans all round the world. The board are finally putting their hands in their pockets after years of under investment, but we need a new vision now on the training ground I'm afraid to say.
Jose has to go, he was once one of the best in the world, but he's now a dinosaur, he's a victim of how quickly football has moved forward, and a home win on Sunday against Chelsea will not change that (IMHO).
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In an nutshell Mourinho was bought in to win the league within 3 seasons regardless of the football. This was to counter the 3 seasons before where we were way off. He has done this with every team he has managed. The big but in this is its not going to happen here. Whatever he had at the other teams, hes not reproducing it here, In fact the football side of it is slowly getting worse, which isnt going to win any league title. We may or may not finish top 4, but we also did this under VG and rightly he was let go.
Hes also stated that the attack is fine and he wont be bringing anyone in. Yet the right side is as weak as ever, unless he starts playing Sanchez there. There is no fluidity to it, and cumulated on a few occasions this season with only having 1 or 2 shots on target, which in itself is a disgrace. The one way he can remedy this is maybe bring in an attack minded coach, and take notice of what they say. I dont see him doing this as he is pig headed, and unless by some fluke it clicks of its own volition, we will be saying the same next season.
The football is not what a top team team should be turning out, and if we dont qualify for the top 4 this season, we need to say thanks but no more, Mour - pun. I do think Woody knows this as well, and to hedge his bets only 1 year was added to his contract, with the option for the club to take another year.
We should end up top 4, but Im not as sure as I was a month or two back, and if theres no definite improvement next season it will be his last.
Hes also stated that the attack is fine and he wont be bringing anyone in. Yet the right side is as weak as ever, unless he starts playing Sanchez there. There is no fluidity to it, and cumulated on a few occasions this season with only having 1 or 2 shots on target, which in itself is a disgrace. The one way he can remedy this is maybe bring in an attack minded coach, and take notice of what they say. I dont see him doing this as he is pig headed, and unless by some fluke it clicks of its own volition, we will be saying the same next season.
The football is not what a top team team should be turning out, and if we dont qualify for the top 4 this season, we need to say thanks but no more, Mour - pun. I do think Woody knows this as well, and to hedge his bets only 1 year was added to his contract, with the option for the club to take another year.
We should end up top 4, but Im not as sure as I was a month or two back, and if theres no definite improvement next season it will be his last.
He might also win a trophy on Sunday, at which point he'll become the cat's meow, and Arsenal will be having a better season than United, cause "if you ain't first you're last".
That's what I've learned last year, consulting caf experts.
Mourinho was sacked by Chelsea for leaving his team in shit and causing no end of issues and we sacked Van Gaal to get him
Tuchel was sacked because he didn't see eye to eye with the owners and scout about player recruitment and selling of players like Hummels, Gundogan and Mkhitaryan.
It's like people forgot Mourinho was sacked for leaving Chelsea in what was it, 16th? The fact is, from what i'm reading on this forum and from opinions on this forum from people in Europe, we seen to be the only lot who are so spoilt when it comes to manager selection, managers like Tuchel, Pochettino, Jardim etc are completely beneath you and the club, like how dare we consider these, we are the mighty Manchester United, whereas Barcelona, Bayern Munich and more select these managers on the regular and have no qualms about it because they realise the character of a manager for your team isn't just about the number of awards on your CV. LVG had a glittering CV, maybe we should bring him back.
I think that the biggest problem right now is the way the team plays on counter. The players seem without any kind of ideea of what they should do in this kind of actions. How many times have the players wasted this type of chances, by various motives: misplaced pass, lack of pace, misunderstandings etc.
As long as Mourinho is here, this is the way the team will be playing: pragmatic football, boring football, park the bus etc, call it however you want. The board knew it, we all knew it since the first day he came here. But a team that plays that way should be devastating when the opportunity arrives. For example, watch Juventus-Tottenham. Juve parked the bus and yet they created a few clear chances, missed a penalty. Ok, they didn't score, but at least they had something to say in attack. United against the almighty Sevilla had one dull shot on target from McTominay.
As long as Mourinho is here, this is the way the team will be playing: pragmatic football, boring football, park the bus etc, call it however you want. The board knew it, we all knew it since the first day he came here. But a team that plays that way should be devastating when the opportunity arrives. For example, watch Juventus-Tottenham. Juve parked the bus and yet they created a few clear chances, missed a penalty. Ok, they didn't score, but at least they had something to say in attack. United against the almighty Sevilla had one dull shot on target from McTominay.
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Well said. He should have been given till the end of the season and then this should or shouldnt have happened, depending on results and the football played. It might have made him play better football, as there would have been the incentive, instead of the cushion of at least another 2 years contract.
You're probably correct, sir. Think most of us have just blocked the Moyes reign from our memory tbh
Alright buddy relax
. It’s ok to have different opinions on a forum. Never said I wouldn’t want Pochettino though? I was specifically talking about Tuchel and you went on this spectacular rant ?Sorry but it goes beyond simplistic reasoning. My girlfriend is from Dortmund so I frequently visit the stadium and actually watch them on a regular basis. So I think my analysis of him goes beyond the fact that he got sacked, I saw him in action.
I would take a risk on Poch if the opportunity came but I doubt he would leave Spurs to come to us. He’ll end up at Madrid/Barca I would imagine.
OK, so tell us more about what you saw. Because in your original post the only argument was that he got sacked by Dortmund which is not good enough.
My main issue is that we're not even playing pragmatic football well. Fair enough if we perform like we did on Wednesday away to PSG and draw 0-0 but it's not like Sevilla are performing that well on any front - yet they've outplayed us.
Because he is here 20 years. Conte, jose and pep are here 2, poch and klopp 3 years.
But nevermind, if i could return time, i would delete my post because of all this negativity. Some of you are really trying to devalue jose's reign here and in the same time you overestimate all other managers.
Great first post.
I personally don't care much about winning trophies when this is our style of play. I mean I could see your point had we won either the league or the champion's league since Mourinho took over but we haven't. As such the way we've regressed to a type of pragmatism that doesn't benefit us as fans who simply want to enjoy each game as it comes.
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