To be honest, speed was always one of Ziyechs lesser points. In my opinion he never got a fair run at Chelsea but you will probably disagree.
He will do brilliant in Italy at AC Milan.
Antony | Here we go! €100mill, contract until June 2027, option 'til 2028.
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He will do brilliant in Italy at AC Milan.
Almost! But I heard Man Utd will try nevertheless! We’ll see
Think people are too caught up in the Dutch footy thing here. Ziyech is a product of Dutch football. Antony is a product of Brazilian football. He cost 20m before he ever set foot in Holland. There is a huge track record of young Brazilian forwards coming to Europe and being world-class players. A pit stop in Holland doesn't define him.
He really struggles when opponents get stuck into him. Gets bullied off the ball and really has trouble getting past people with the ball.
I was more excited about signing Ziyech than I had been anyone in years. But he has been a massive letdown. That’s why I’d be cautious about Antony if it was us buying him.
I agree with your points. Ziyech has a magical left foot and is used with freedom on the right side to bring in that killer pass. I was rooting for him at Chelsea but it’s a shame it didn’t work out. Maybe if you had a decent striker it would have worked.
Why didnt we just make a joint offer for both Martinez and Antony at the same time if ETH wanted both? We would have got both for a better price. Why buy one and then come back with an offer for the other? You are obviously going to massively overpay that way.
Maybe we did
And?
I don't get how it could be a better price if they don't want to sell. Maybe if we get them really drunk during the final stages of negotiations and slip Antony offer in there.
But they do want to sell. For too much now that we paid 50 for Martinez obviously.
Wait and see
Doubt it. Ajax had already lost several first team players before we signed Martinez, in an ideal world I don't think they would've wanted to sell either of them this summer.
I think it's actually the opposite. Ajax are in a position where they don't have to sell so can afford to ask for more.
We have already bought one havent we?
They don’t have to arrive gift wrapped together you know. A deal could well have been discussed and agreed for both in two parts. Let’s just see what happens.
There was talk United had offered €125m for both players just before Martinez went public.
Hang on. We've already signed Martinez for 50m. And we are now offering 60 something for Antony, am I missing something?
they were resigned to losing Martinez but i think they are a bit more hell bent on keeping Antony....
we fuking need him and we fuking need Frenkie
I'm not really understanding why it should make a difference. It's not 2 for 1 on a tin of beans. If I'm CEO I have a valuation for each of my players, so whether that negotiation is run twice or within the same set of discussions shouldn't really matter, you get the same process of being bartered down from the top end starting price for each player to something acceptable to United.
The only way I could see it being different is if the circumstances were different. Say Ajax were in difficulty, desperately needed players out or deals structured in a certain way and we have leverage. We don't - it's us that is hellbent on ETHs choices.
Because if you go and overpay 50 for Martinez you've set bar as to how much Antony should cost too.
Amad looks better than this guy and I bet Malacia probably thinks so as well;
Tyrelle Malacia vs Ten Hag | Destroyed AntonyPC10HD Extra • 12K views5:01
Tyrelle Malacia vs Ten Hag | Destroyed AntonyPC10HD Extra • 12K views5:01
Not a chance Amad is better than Antony. Amad isn’t even fit to play at the top level right now.
That bar was gonna be set either way. They were adamant on the prices for both and didn't budge. Why you think Man Utd would have fared better doing a package deal is beyond me.
If you think we've overpaid on Martinez then what makes you think they'd do a cushy package deal? That's inconsistent.
If anything what we paid justifies Ajax's position this summer. They're a selling club, they will always sell, but they've been adamant that they're not desperate to and they'll go for their valuation or very close.
I think putting yourself in their position makes this easy to understand. Why would you ever do a cut price deal to a willing buyer who's manager is desperate for your players? That's terrible business.
I get the feeling with Antony and Sancho united will have a good set of wingers for the next decade.
Rashford I expect a big year from in terms of goals he's 25 and shouldn't go off the boil, Martial I expect it to be his last chance this year.
If ETH gets his final targets I think United will surprise people this year.
Rashford I expect a big year from in terms of goals he's 25 and shouldn't go off the boil, Martial I expect it to be his last chance this year.
If ETH gets his final targets I think United will surprise people this year.
I was half-hoping that both clubs inflated the Martinez deal so that Ajax would bring down the Antony fee slightly (he has a sell-on clause), and not pay through the nose for a replacement (Conceicao). Doesn't seem to be the case though.
I don’t think Ajax is a grocery store with a “buy 1 and get the other for a 20% discount” offer. Either way you don’t want to hold up one transfer for the sake of another by making a joint offer when they seem very reluctant to sell Antony.
when Ziyech, Werner and Havertz arrived, I really thought Chelsea would push City and Liverpool all the way by scoring enough goals to win games, no matter what the score. All have been somewhat underwhelming
I thought people were way too excited about the signings, in the xase of Ziyech and Wrner anyway. ZIyech was always one ofhte good Ajax players, not outstanding, dont think Chelsea improved on Willian with that signing and Werner was massively overhyped as a striker.
I am surprised by the impact of Havertz though, he was the one I thought would be a terrific signing
Not outstanding? Wasn't Ziyech the Eridivisie player of the year, and Ajax player of the season a number of times? He's struggled with injuries and rotation, I don't think he's had a fair crack at Chelsea. A lot of players take time to settle in this league and go on to be great, he needed more time imo. He's a wonderful player.
Whereas Antony hasn't really proved himself at all, is just as lightweight, and doesn't have the numbers to back up a huge transfer fee. I'd pass on him for at least a season and see how he develops at Ajax.
Ziyech was 26 when he left Eredivisie with over 8 years played in that league. He was practically a grandpa leaving that late.
How do you figure Ajax wants to sell, when its common knowledge Ajax dont? Ajax didnt want to sell Martinez, thats why you had to overpay and for Antony that will be the same. Ajax want to keep him for at least a year more and therefor you have to overpay to get Ajax to sell reluctantly.
Can't see this being done for this season. Possibly next...
Agreed, the drop off is huge.
Who asked for your sound reasoning? Don't dampen our muppet spirits!
Players can fail for a multitude of reasons. It doesn't necessarily have to do with the league they're coming from. Chelsea's system under Tuchel also lacks Ziyech's native position so that he has to compete with many very good players for his spot. I wouldn't read too much into it. Antony would also join his former coach at United who has already figured out how to use him. And in contrast to Ziyech, he'd come into a team that has no players for his position.
Well I cant judge the current Ajax players as not really watched them recently. For me though DeLigt and DeJOng were way above the other supposed great players in that Ajax side like VDB, Ziyech, Neres etc.
All good players but I wasnt excited about VDB coming here and personally thought the fanfare over Ziyech was overboard. DIdnt really work out there but I thought WIllian was a better player than.
Maybe didnt get the chance at Chelsea and may go on to better things moving. I think generally we overhype a lot of players from abroad though compared to what is already in the league. Think that has happened with a lot of Chelsea purchases. ZItech for me is alongside Lukaku, Werner, Bakayoko and other as players nowhere near worthy of the hupe they have had for me. Yet maybe old, they sign one of the best centre bakcs of the last decade ot so in SIlva and nobody mentions him much. Its pretty shockig some of the fees thye have paid over the last five years, bar a couple of good deals its right up there in being as bad as ours
I agree with overhyping players. But I thought the ziyech deal didn't get much hype because all the talk was about Werner and Havertz. I personally thought he'd be the best signing of the three. It's similar to the haaland hype while no one is talking about Alvarez. I think he's a sensational player and that he could outperform haaland, which I get is a bold statement but you never know what will happen in football.
Nobody at the start of the window considered Ronaldo not being around or Martial playing well in pre season so us being ‘serious’ at the start of the window wouldn’t have looked like that.
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