Antony under investigation by Brazilian authorities for domestic abuse | Back in the squad

[tomaldinho1]

Anything coming out from the women's team ?

I feel like if they aren't saying anything for Greenwood it would be a bit weird to say something here?

On was arrested straight away, the other has been accused of something half a year ago and working with the police in the interim. Can't compare the cases unless Antony is arrested really, then the club will have to act.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Innocent until guilty? Not in judge Rileys eyes.

The replies on here to this comment made me chuckle, best one “she’s not a judge” Sarcasm flying over heads left and right.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Are there people in this thread who want Antony suspended over these allegations, without credible evidence (as far as I know, open to correction)? Genuine question

No, but the pure football fan in me would be happy to not see him in the starting XI I can't lie.

Honestly (and I'm happy to be corrected on this) the only difference in evidence that I can tell is the lack of video/recording that we had with Greenwood. So the difference in response is interesting to me.

 

[Laurencio]

Its very possible she was treated by the club without them knowing it was a domestic abuse incident.

I would he extremely surprised if they are trying to cover it up and are not cooperating fully with authorities.

It would be a shock if the doctor didn't go straight to his boss afterwards regardless. He was called to a hotel to treat an injury to a player's girlfriend by the player liason guy? That can't be normal.

The second anyone with any responsibility to the club's financial future heard that, alarm bells would have to ring. There is no way anyone decided to engage in a conspiracy to keep that information from the police.

 

[Zed 101]

So keeping Mason Greenwood despite the video and audio and no attempt to clarify them would send a message to the media thar we can't he messed with.

I think you'll find if we played Mason Greenwood you couldn't be more wrong. There would be an avalanche of negative media.

I'm only a white knight relative to the sociopaths in the thread.
All I said is the Brazilian FA have put pressure on United to at least make a statement.

what?

 

[moses]

what?

What are you struggling with there?

 

[Superunknown]

Let out a massive sigh when I first caught wind of this. It does feel like one thing after another, right now.

We have a huge image problem at the very least, and a huge problem with players' conduct off the field at the very worst.

 

[Zed 101]

What are you struggling with there?

how are you a white knight exactly?

 

[Laurencio]

No, but the pure football fan in me would be happy to not see him in the starting XI I can't lie.

Honestly (and I'm happy to be corrected on this) the only difference in evidence that I can tell is the lack of video/recording that we had with Greenwood. So the difference in response is interesting to me.

That's not an insignificant difference. The messages prove he's a psychologically abusive POS, but they don't prove assault.

 

[moses]

how are you a white knight exactly?

I'm not. That's the point.

 

[Zed 101]

I'm not. That's the point.

Ok I missed the sarcasm, we need an interrobang

 

[moses]

Ok I missed the sarcasm, we need an interrobang

Just read back, it's obvious.

 

[Blood Mage]

We really need to start assessing the character and temperament of players before we sign them. Wasn't Fergie big on that? I remember hearing it was one of the secrets to his success.

 

[Baxquux]

That's not an insignificant difference. The messages prove he's a psychologically abusive POS, but they don't prove assault.

Think it's the opposite, from what I've seen reported. Antony refers to and apologizes in text, for assaulting her... or one of the very things he's apparently being charged with. Whether you believe the alternative accounts leaked re. MG and/or his partner's social media post following the retraction around the images, for the CPS and for the club higher-ups there is at least reasonable doubt that those particular offences took place. That seems not to be the case entirely for Antony.

Again, people are (understandably, psychologically) stuck on what they can directly see or hear and reluctant to consider whether other evidence complicates that narrative or not, compared to less flashy things like texts (see likewise the Arsenal player admitting to sexual activity and saying 'you can't prove you didn't want it' in leaked texts, and the social media/club response there). Nevertheless, there seems to be more 'concrete' evidence that Antony inflicted injuries on his former partner. Doesn't mean that he's going to be found guilty or that we won't find out new evidence that complicates parts of the narrative. However, telling that there is a concession there as well as evidence of engagement with medical professionals, it would seem, that indicates she was physically harmed to a level requiring proper medical attention.

 

[moses]

Anything coming out from the women's team ?

That's a weird question.

Why should or would they say anything?

 

[Cassidy]

It would be a shock if the doctor didn't go straight to his boss afterwards regardless. He was called to a hotel to treat an injury to a player's girlfriend by the player liason guy? That can't be normal.

The second anyone with any responsibility to the club's financial future heard that, alarm bells would have to ring. There is no way anyone decided to engage in a conspiracy to keep that information from the police.

Im not sure why you think someone getting injured and a player calling the club doctor would not be normal? You have to realise that players these days do nothing for themselves and the clubs have access to the best medical teams. Especially when the player has recently moved from abroad.

Club doctor should report it if they feel is suspicious the same way if you call an ambulance to your house they would treat you but report anything they deem suspicious.

Saying that I am not aware of the details of the incident to determine if it was suspicious or not.

 

[goalscholes]

It’s pretty clear that the club rule should be:

a) guilty of serious crime - sacked
B) being charged with serious crime - suspended awaiting a determination from the police/ courts
C) never charged/ charges dropped - everyone in this category should automatically have the right to be presumed innocent and live their lives without restriction or discrimination

The club has and will continue to tie itself in knots if it continues to act as if it knows better than the legal system. Making non-football related decisions, to appease people on social media who think the least but speak the loudest.

The club isn’t, and shouldn’t become, the moral police given an ‘alleged failure’ of the legal system. It isn’t set up for it, it feels illegitimate and therefore it’s determination on such matters are totally disregarded if they contradict the most vocal agenda.

Nor should someone ever be assumed guilty because of alleged ‘failures of the legal system’, or because people have seen Making a Murderer or heard Serial and assume they know better. A) the US is very different from the UK, and B) the police and judges require significant quality thresholds to be met, for evidence to be considered by juries.

 

[Rado_N]

Rachel Riley sentenced him yet?

Rachel Riley will be fuming with that statement.

it’s opinions like hers that make headlines and make Unitedtake actions like they did with Greenwood.

She needs to keep her opinions to herself

She's felt the need to weigh in on Giggs, Greenwood and Antony in recent weeks pretty much saying she'll never support the club again if they aren't fired etc.

Innocent until guilty? Not in judge Rileys eyes.

She need to shut the feck up.

The incel energy is strong in this one.

 

[TheReligion]

How come United have to bow down to media and public scrutiny?

Chelsea had Alonso in their team for years. Partey was still being selected for Arsenal, whilst under rape allegations less than a year ago.

Partey is still under investigation although his bail has been lifted.

Quite amazing really.

 

[48 hours]

damn women. They have opinions and everything these days

Women know your limits

Harry Enfield reference

 

[BootsyCollins]

She's felt the need to weigh in on Giggs, Greenwood and Antony in recent weeks pretty much saying she'll never support the club again if they aren't fired etc.

Innocent until guilty? Not in judge Rileys eyes.

She said no such thing on Antony?

Anyway, i dont get why you are so angry with her. Or at least she should be entitled to voice her opinion.

 

[GledTheRed]

“SHE CANT KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH THIS!!!!!” Exclaimed GledTheRed with tears in his eyes as he tucked into his Pot Noodle.

Jesus.

 

[GledTheRed]

She said no such thing on Antony?

Anyway, i dont get why you are so angry with her. Or at least she should be entitled to voice her opinion.

Yes she has.

 

[Herschel Krustofsky]

The replies on here to this comment made me chuckle, best one “she’s not a judge” Sarcasm flying over heads left and right.

Me too, ribs are sore. Guess there’s no room for a subtlety when you’re flying on your high horse

 

[cyberman]

Common sense but Im not sure this now helps her case

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[Rolaholic]

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[Mickeza]

Common sense but Im not sure this now helps her case

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The club confirm they arranged for a private doctor to visit her at the request of Antony - not a club doctor as originally claimed back in June but a doctor did visit her that night at the hotel.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

That's a weird question.

Why should or would they say anything?

Didn't they send emails or something regarding Greenwoods case?

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

Could he only be charged by police in Brazil?

 

[bosnian_red]

Common sense but Im not sure this now helps her case

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Well it's nice to see us instantly and strongly deny that so that's good.

 

[wr8_utd]

So the club has confirmed that they arranged for a private doctor and this is normal practice for players and their families. Guess all it takes is for this private doctor to state he informed the club and United are kind of in trouble.

 

[7even]

Really?

You really think "Now we seem to have swung to the point where the twitter mob are the judge, jury and executioner"


That's part of the best take in your opinion?


If Antony is proven innocent this will have been a painful experience no doubt. Certainly not executed.

If it was me falsely accused. I'd sue whoever did it and hammer them in the press.

It rarely happens.

See below post.

Obviously executioner is meant metaphorically, no one is saying Antony will die. But. If this investigation goes on, say, another year, over in Brazil, before charges are eventually dropped (obviously hypothetical). What percentage of football fans do you think will be of the view: Oh yes, Antony had that mess with the accusation, but that was all cleared up, now we'll just forget that ever happened. Because currently these charges stick at the point of allegation, and are rarely cleared up in the public discource.

For the best example, see Amanda Knox. Her name is still associated with a horrific murder she had no part in, because the media narrative sticks.

For the justice system to truly be the arbiter here, the allegations, evidence and all should not be aired in the media. We should really be hearing about it once the verdict is passed down by officials, at which point it's fine for the public to form an opinion.

Instead, the media is forming an opinion right now. The club and the player are both receiving massive negative coverage in the media before a single official process has even started investigating anything. And I believe that's wrong, and potentially dangerous precedent. Because make no mistake, the club will be forced to take one of two actions here:

1. Respond to public scrutiny by saying there's an official investigation and any footballing decision will be made after that concludes. This will result in the twitter mob continuing to demand Antony is banned until such conclusion.
2. Bench Antony for unknowable period of time pending the outcome of the official investigation. Which will obviously damage his career, the club's chances of success and still won't be enough for many in the public sphere, certainly those most vocal in the media.

Because the victim has decided to do this in public, the club and player are damned either way.

Forming a strong opinion about domestic abuse between two individuals without any significant proof to back up the opinion is in my world rather dishonest and anti intellectual. We publicly share wild speculations that in the end hurts almost everyone involved without a second thought.

My stance is simple. Before the legal system has given a verdict I believe in everything and nothing.

It’s a nightmare for the legal system to judge a toxic relationship and therefore millions of abusers go free. It’s a shame and all of us who have been part of DV, directly or indirectly, get frustrated when these abusers (mostly men) go free.

But the real question is what’s the alternative to the legal system?
Do we have some better way to find justice?

I have personal experience of DV. My wife, my grandmother, my mother, my father, my daughter, my wife’s daughter, my aunt and some of my friends have also suffered from DV. Not to mention myself. I was born in the sixties so I’m well aware of being physically and mentally abused by my parents in my younger years. Blood. Bruises. Mental scares. Low self-esteem. You name it. I was lucky because I was born with a strong mentality and a positive mindset.

My wife since 10 years is from São Paulo. Her ex husband tried to shoot her with a gun because she wanted to divorce him. He missed the shot with inches and since then she has been on the run whenever she’s visiting Brazil. That’s DV beyond anyone’s imagination.


She of all is allowed to have a strong opinion but she doesn’t. She’s almost 50 years old with two grown up children and she’s the first to admit the problem to judge without evidence or full knowledge about the relationship. I admire her for that because that’s a sign of a good character.

From my perspective there’s no winner with going viral. The alleged victim could be 100% authentic but I don’t hold my breath if she has a hidden agenda. Antony could be 100% innocent but I’m well aware of that the statistic talks against him.

That’s the dilemma. I simply don’t know who’s better or worse or maybe even totally innocent. That’s why I have to trust the legal system even if it has flaws and often comes up short.

 

[Mickeza]

So the club has confirmed that they arranged for a private doctor and this is normal practice for players and their families. Guess all it takes is for this private doctor to state he informed the club and United are kind of in trouble.

I’d imagine if the doctor felt an assault had occurred they’d also have informed the police not just the club. The fact her lawyers are accusing the club and the doctor (thinking they were working for the club) of covering it up would lead me to assume the doctor isn’t stating that they felt an assault had taken place. This is why shit like this shouldn’t be drip fed through the media - serious accusations are flying and we’re all acting like Colombo based on aggregator social media sites looking for hits.

 

[Eleven.]

Ah yes. Another male accused of DV and most of this thread goes all “innocent until proven guilty” and “the club isn’t the morality police”.

All these pesky women making things up about footballers with no actual evidence….

Honestly a lot of attitudes in here are why the conviction rates for this stuff are so low. It’s disgusting. YOU are the problem.

 

[T00lsh3d]

Sancho might get a game after all. If it turned out he was prone to uncontrollable rage away from the pitch I really would start to believe we’re cursed

 

[Highlyevolved]

It’s pretty clear that the club rule should be:

a) guilty of serious crime - sacked
B) being charged with serious crime - suspended awaiting a determination from the police/ courts
C) never charged/ charges dropped - everyone in this category should automatically have the right to be presumed innocent and live their lives without restriction or discrimination

The club has and will continue to tie itself in knots if it continues to act as if it knows better than the legal system. Making non-football related decisions, to appease people on social media who think the least but speak the loudest.

The club isn’t, and shouldn’t become, the moral police given an ‘alleged failure’ of the legal system. It isn’t set up for it, it feels illegitimate and therefore it’s determination on such matters are totally disregarded if they contradict the most vocal agenda.

Nor should someone ever be assumed guilty because of alleged ‘failures of the legal system’, or because people have seen Making a Murderer or heard Serial and assume they know better. A) the US is very different from the UK, and B) the police and judges require significant quality thresholds to be met, for evidence to be considered by juries.

Exactly. If the police cannot prosecute or someone is found not guilty, that should be the end of it. The club can’t become judge, jury and executioner. Fans upset with the outcome should then complain about the justice system, and if they feel an injustice has been done lobby for a change in the law.

 

[mav_9me]

That's not an insignificant difference. The messages prove he's a psychologically abusive POS, but they don't prove assault.

The messages aren't proven to be his are they?

 

[bosnian_red]

So the club has confirmed that they arranged for a private doctor and this is normal practice for players and their families. Guess all it takes is for this private doctor to state he informed the club and United are kind of in trouble.

There is 0 chance a private doctor would inform the club of anything. It's not a club matter. It's not a club doctor. It's doctor patient confidentiality whatever was found or said. And if anything was said or found, this independent doctor would be obligated to go to the police and nobody else. The club is a complete non entity in this story.

 

[USREDEVIL]

There is 0 chance a private doctor would inform the club of anything. It's not a club matter. It's not a club doctor. It's doctor patient confidentiality whatever was found or said. And if anything was said or found, this independent doctor would be obligated to go to the police and nobody else. The club is a complete non entity in this story.

This

 

[Mickeza]

There is 0 chance a private doctor would inform the club of anything. It's not a club matter. It's not a club doctor. It's doctor patient confidentiality whatever was found or said. And if anything was said or found, this independent doctor would be obligated to go to the police and nobody else. The club is a complete non entity in this story.

They aren’t. The club are quite key to it. Her lawyers (according to the media…) are stating that after Antony headbutted her the club liaison officer visited her at the hotel and stopped her going to hospital and called a club doctor in order to cover the DV up. The club have categorically denied a club doctor treated her or that there was any cover-up or knowledge of DV - however they have admitted a private doctor was arranged to visit her by the club liaison officer.