Antony: why the concern - use the player performance thread

[Red in STL]

Well price tags do matter whether you like or not. By most accounts United don’t have unlimited budgets to spend anymore and so when you spend premium amount on a player you want to get good value for it

Yes price tags do matter but they are irrelevant in the context they are mostly used, the best examples are like Maguire was a crap buy at £80 million but he'd have been OK if his price tag had been £40 million, that's BS, a player is not good buy at one price and a bad one at a higher one

 

[Chief123]

People still concerned despite us looking much better since he’s come back.

I’m not seeing everything I want to see, but I’m seeing enough to not be worried and know that the progression is there.

 

[Ayush_reddevil]

Ok but the manager wanted him so as always it falls on him if it doesn’t work out. Let’s give it another 12 months before we come to any real conclusions. He won’t get another wad to upgrade on that side and rightly so.

That’s absolutely fine. He will definitely get a lot of chances including next season to prove himself . ETH is a very smart man and so I find it hard to believe that he would have chased him so much if Antony wasn’t good .

 

[Ali Dia]

I think at the worst he’s been stretching the pitch better for our other players and he’s putting in a lot of work. If he wasn’t doing the work I’d be more worried. I feel along with Sancho that both can easily become 10-15 goal a season players

 

[JB7]

Don't agree

He works hard down the flank, tracks back, makes loads of interceptions, fights for the team and tackles and scores important goals.

it's no wonder ETH likes him. People just expect a Brazilian attacker to be a different mould of player

Absolutely he has working points - strength, right foot, decision making in the final third and fitness. But they're all things that will be highlighted and will be worked on ahead of next season. there's no major concerns and he's not a "poor purchase"

He's one of the best players we have at getting the ball up the pitch too. The sheer number of times a game he carries the ball 30/40 yards up the field is ridiculous, before slowing the game down to allow our attackers to get around him; lo and behold we are high up the pitch, with numbers in attacking areas and passing options for the man on the ball. People get frustrated with him slowing the game down but it's clearly by design, we've seen enough times that he's capable of playing the quick game and going outside when required. There are areas to improve upon, of course, but for a young player in his first season I'm very happy with them and I think Ten Hag will be too.

It's probably an unusual viewpoint but while there seems to be an acceptance that we signed Casemiro when we realised De Jong was not looking to come to the club, it's a view I strongly disagree with and think Casemiro was a player we would have signed regardless, we were just waiting on the finances to see the overall cost of De Jong before finalising Casemiro; I'm of the belief that Antony is the player we signed as a result of not bringing in De Jong. They play different positions on paper but ultimately their biggest strengths are the same, they protect the full back where appropriate and their primary offensive focus is to move the team from one area of the pitch to another and start structured attacks high up the pitch.

 

[acnumber9]

Don't agree

He works hard down the flank, tracks back, makes loads of interceptions, fights for the team and tackles and scores important goals.

it's no wonder ETH likes him. People just expect a Brazilian attacker to be a different mould of player

Absolutely he has working points - strength, right foot, decision making in the final third and fitness. But they're all things that will be highlighted and will be worked on ahead of next season. there's no major concerns and he's not a "poor purchase"

People expect any attacking player to create more chances. His nationality has feck all to do with it. That’s before we get started on what we should reasonably expect from a player that cost that much.

 

[acnumber9]

That’s absolutely fine. He will definitely get a lot of chances including next season to prove himself . ETH is a very smart man and so I find it hard to believe that he would have chased him so much if Antony wasn’t good .

Even the best get it wrong from time to time.

 

[podurban2]

Even the best get it wrong from time to time.

Yeah but he actually coached him, he has seen in in action on a daily basis.

 

[Herman Toothrot]

I am worried for him, it looks like we have grossly overpaid, and he is very lucky that we are having an amazing season and all other signings have been resounding success, otherwise he would have been criticized heavily.

You look at Garnacho who is an 18 year old but plays fearlessly and take his player on, and then there is Amad who is also doing well, I won’t even talk about Rashford who has been outclass this season.

His biggest downside is he does not have pace and funnily enough we have a similar player like him on Sancho who looks even slower than him. Did we not know that we already have a winger who would not work premier league because he is slow?

for an 80m signing you expect a player who can actually create chances and score goals every other match, whereas him scoring or creating chances seem like an anomaly rather than the norm.

The only thing going for him is he works hard and tracks back, plus he is good at keeping possession on his best days and 1 in 10 games his curling shot may hit the corner.

We're having an amazing season, not in a small part down to Antony scoring the winner against Barcelona, less than a week ago. Not to mention goals against Arsenal and City.

Why are you comparing him to Garnacho? He's a totally different player who draws so much attention in tight spaces on the right that it frees up the likes of Garnacho and Rashford on the left. This is exactly how we are set up to play.

Do you watch the games?

I think a lot of it also comes from understanding the winger’s role in ETHs system. Especially when we have a LW that is more of a forward.

ETHs goal is to get the team really high up the pitch, more or less only stay back with three players, which forced the opponents to defend with 7-8 players. From there you play a really high defense and you have every chance to win back possession directly after you have lost the ball.

To get there, it’s essential to have a winger that can lick the line, take a pass despite being pressured, and maintain possession high up pitch while the rest of the team moves up. I can guarantee that ETH don’t mind Antony getting a pass high up on the right side, showboat a bit, then turn out against the side line and pass to a CM.

Antony is really strong on the ball in those situations. They have different styles, but that is what Bernado Silva does for City.

In addition, the winger are the most dangerous in 1 on 1 situation in more counter attack style of situations, in more up and down the pitch style of play.

I 100% agree with the notion that there are room for improvement in Antony’s game. But a lot of the things he does — that he is called out for — is more or less by design. ETH will always prefer a winger who maintains possession of the ball and gets the team up field over a winger who lose possession 9 of 10 times, to get by his guy and get a shot off the 10th time.

This guy gets it.

Stop whinging and looking to 'burst INSERT NAME's bubble'. We're playing brilliantly at the moment, fecking enjoy it.

 

[Reapersoul20]

Think he looks class myself

 

[Devil77]

Don't agree

He works hard down the flank, tracks back, makes loads of interceptions, fights for the team and tackles and scores important goals.

it's no wonder ETH likes him. People just expect a Brazilian attacker to be a different mould of player

Absolutely he has working points - strength, right foot, decision making in the final third and fitness. But they're all things that will be highlighted and will be worked on ahead of next season. there's no major concerns and he's not a "poor purchase"

Fully agree. I can totally see why ETH likes him and sees great potential. It’s way too early to write him off.

 

[Telsim]

He is the only natural RW we have, so it masks his performances in some people's eyes . Not in mine, though. Barely provides any threat at all. Having 1 assist as a RW is unacceptable, sorry. At least he is great defensively. But that just won't be enough in the long run. Incredibly predictable and limited. Wish we'd gotten Raphinha instead of him last summer. Hoping Amad comes good.

 

[elmo]

You all worry too much.

He’s young and puts in the shift on both ends of the pitch. There’s a reason why ETH continues to play him, he makes us so much more fluid despite the lack of goals/assists.

And honestly, our attack is heavily biased towards the left because Shaw/Rashford are are almost guaranteed to link up for like 5 chances a game.

 

[zenith]

He's very young and still adapting to a new country. It's hardly easy.

I'm sure we will see the very best of him next season and even in this one, he's been quite useful in his ball carrying ability and bringing others into play.

And he can really rile up the opposition, which is a lovely bonus

 

[David De Gea]

Is it not fair to say he's been a little underwhelming without making out his signing has been a complete disaster and waste of money?

To me it's great to have a right winger who's best position is right wing. OK he might not be beating people and putting dangerous balls in to the box on a regular basis but I still think he does a lot of great work on the wing. Coupled with the important goals he has scored I think he's done more than enough to earn more time and patience to show his full potential.

 

[DevilRed]

Guys. Its normal for the caf to give up on 22 year olds who just moved to a new league.

If they aren't messi by the time they hit 23, then they aren't good enough for us. Time to go to the transfer thread to find a replacement!

 

[daveskimufc]

I like Antony. it's good to actually have someone on the right, who stays over there.
Yes his lack of end product is disappointing and his non-existant right foot is frustrating at times, but when he plays the balance is so much better, teams actually have to account for us having a right hand side, rather than the last 3or 4 years when everything came down the left.

 

[SirScholes]

He is the only natural RW we have, so it masks his performances in some people's eyes . Not in mine, though. Barely provides any threat at all. Having 1 assist as a RW is unacceptable, sorry. At least he is great defensively. But that just won't be enough in the long run. Incredibly predictable and limited. Wish we'd gotten Raphinha instead of him last summer. Hoping Amad comes good.

Unless I’m wrong
Raphina has 5 goals
Antony has 5 goals

Raphina has 3 more assists

and he plays in a shite league

 

[RedDevil@84]

Is he the new Bruno on caf?

 

[Herman Toothrot]

Is it not fair to say he's been a little underwhelming without making out his signing has been a complete disaster and waste of money?

To me it's great to have a right winger who's best position is right wing. OK he might not be beating people and putting dangerous balls in to the box on a regular basis but I still think he does a lot of great work on the wing. Coupled with the important goals he has scored I think he's done more than enough to earn more time and patience to show his full potential.

I think that's fair. However, I also think people need to manage their expectations. We've not signed an Andrei Kanchelskis or even a David Beckham. While they occupy the same space, Antony is a totally different player with a totally different job. We are lucky enough to have options in the area but a lot of people's disappointment stems from comparing apples to oranges. I don't know Ten Hag's mind, but I suspect he's playing exactly how he wants him to. Of course, we'll want to see more goals and assists, and you'd expect with a season under his belt in a new league that we'll get that next year.

 

[RedDevil@84]

ETH has clearly said there is lot of room for improvement and they are working on it. Unless some think that ETH is a liar, give them time.

 

[Beaucoup]

Definitely overpriced, however, he's tenacious, plays with flair and is hard working, any fullback he comes up against will know they've been in a game .

 

[devil99]

He might end up as the ball carrying mid field alternative to FDJ if we get a flying right winger.

 

[bond19821982]

He is the only natural RW we have, so it masks his performances in some people's eyes . Not in mine, though. Barely provides any threat at all. Having 1 assist as a RW is unacceptable, sorry. At least he is great defensively. But that just won't be enough in the long run. Incredibly predictable and limited. Wish we'd gotten Raphinha instead of him last summer. Hoping Amad comes good.

Barely provides any threat ? He isn't your Raphinha type winger . He is more of a keep the ball possession oriented player. He can hold upto 2 people easily. Think ETH wants to play a dynamic explosive dribbler on left (Rashford or Garnacho) and Antony on right to maintain a balance .

Don't know what's the issue here.

Only 22, just came from Eredivisie, scored some critical goals , hardworking and great attitude.

 

[Solius]

Not worried at all.

 

[Dan_F]

Unless I’m wrong
Raphina has 5 goals
Antony has 5 goals

Raphina has 3 more assists

and he plays in a shite league

For a team that has Lewandowski upfront.

 

[11101]

I think that he is the compete opposite of a handful to be honest. A PL standard left back could defend him smoking a pipe and wearing slippers- his unwillingness to test them on the outside means that they just have to position themselves a foot closer to their CB's than they would against a dangerous winger/wide forward and suddenly a confused Anto is turning and passing the ball back where it came from.

He might yet function much better on the right once the team becomes more cohesive but at present Bruno is the superior option (albeit out of position).

He is not trying to beat his man enough but what he does do is carry the ball forward and hold it high up the pitch extremely well. A fullback up against him will need to chase him and forget getting forward themselves. That's essential for a team like ours and probably why he keeps getting starts despite his average numbers.

 

[Idxomer]

The concern is simply because his attacking output is very poor and that's not even about his goals and assists. His underlying stats paint a bad picture for a player in his position at a big club.

Of course, he makes us more functional but that's just because of the fact we have no other left-footed winger in the squad though we have one on our books with more potential.

 

[dannyrhinos89]

He can’t help what we bought him for so you have to ignore the price tag. That’s on the club for messing that up.

I do notice as a team we are better when he’s playing. Plus he’s got that shit housery style which a good bonus. I think he will kick on next season.

 

[Alek M]

Reminds me of young Ronaldo. Brilliant at times, frustrating at times. He needs to simplify his game at times to be more effective. But he has pace, talents and hard work.

I am looking forward to next season and how ETH will mould him.

 

[RVN1991]

I like to give players at least one year at a new club before I start jumping to conclusions, he hasn't been great but I'd be far more worried if it was a case of someone like Nunez who's clearly technically out of his depth.

 

[HookedOnAPhelan]

He's a good, hard-working player with loads of room to improve. And even if he doesn't improve from where he is now he'll still be a very solid player for us.

Yeah he was (too) expensive but what's done is done.

 

[red_de_pologne]

He might end up as the ball carrying mid field alternative to FDJ if we get a flying right winger.

what?

 

[Gazza]

Reminds me of young Ronaldo. Brilliant at times, frustrating at times. He needs to simplify his game at times to be more effective. But he has pace, talents and hard work.

I am looking forward to next season and how ETH will mould him.

I would argue that he is the opposite of a young Ronaldo. Decision-making was something Ronaldo had to learn almost from the ground up, whereas Antony is mature and makes the right choices most of the time. By contrast, Ronaldo took risks to make things happen almost every time he got on the ball, whereas Antony doesn't take on players or attempt risky moves very often.

 

[tomaldinho1]

For a team that has Lewandowski upfront.

And Rafinha was the one who got muscled off the ball by Bruno which lead to the winning goal.

 

[RedorDead21]

Even the best get it wrong from time to time.

Given our tight owners that could come back to hurt him if he doesn’t work out. But I’ve seen glimpses of brilliance and looking at what he’s done to rashers and everyone else it’s unlikely his own boy wonder won’t come good.

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

I for sure trust ETH on this one. He knows Anthony maybe more than any other player. Keep scoring the big goals, and things will get better and better.

 

[Red in STL]

Given our tight owners that could come back to hurt him if he doesn’t work out. But I’ve seen glimpses of brilliance and looking at what he’s done to rashers and everyone else it’s unlikely his own boy wonder won’t come good.

The owners are a lot of things but tight isn't one of them, there's a reason why we are one of the biggest spenders in the PL along with one of the highest wage bills

 

[Flying_Heckfish]

Works hard, he can keep hold of the ball well, allowing others to join the attack. Occasionally gets a good shot in but he's pretty one-dimensional in that regard.

The contrast between what Rashford does when he gets the ball out wide, and what Antony does, is stark. Almost "turn-back 'tony" all over again.

But we're currently transitioning from counter team, into something else, you have to think there is a role for him in that team because he doesn't quite fit in yet. That has to be the hope because he does look a bit of square peg at the moment.

 

[Lecland07]

He definitely needs to do more with his right foot. You could probably count on one hand how many times he has actually crossed the ball into the box.

At the moment, he is very predictable and doesn't really have the dribbling skills to break into the box. This hampers him from getting shots off in better positions.

We are better with him in the team than without him, but we do need more in the future.