Yup. Didn't watch the game, but my brother started texting me going deep into the game. I just told the guy, sorry, I can't be bothered discussing any of this. How I feel after most defeats or bad results. A bit deflated but getting more used to it, so it doesn't affect me like it once did.
Anyone else feeling desensitised to our decline?
- Thread starter AXVnee7
- Start date
I know what you mean. Last night had its "oh FFS" moments, but I think my spirit was finally broken last night. It's the first time in my life that I didn't believe we could get back into a game
I was depressed and heartbroken after the burnley result and our general results since the watford result so didn't bother watching the fenerbahche game. worst thing is I really don't know where utd will go next. lvg, Jose great managers check, spent millions check, on paper great players check, big revenue check, good youth players check, best supporters check, so what's next god knows utd have everything and have done a lot to rectify their issues yet it's the same rubbish over and over again. Just hope everything falls in place. never ever seen a team spend so much yet be so bad and on top of that the manager is having a melt down. it's like over the past three years players can't be bothered and don't want to put the effort in which is the worst problem with a team. next up Swansea away let another horror show commence. bloody hurts seeing teams ahead of utd laughing and getting away from utd and utd regressing. Sometimes it seems utd sign top players for adidas marketing purposes ie pogba, zlatan and di maria. I'll just pray and hope everything some how falls into place now no more opinions on tactics, players, managers etc
I've accepted the situation and I feel better for it. This is England, big clubs go through lean spells all the time. We are not an anomaly. Plus, I do see shades of the 'United way', young players who could become or already are very good to great footballers(De Gea, Pogba and whoever else YOU fancy). I'm ok.
Yes, but that's because unlike under Fergie, I don't really give a feck about the personnel at the club, so I'm less invested.
I loved Fergie, I loved the players under him, from Evra, to Vidic, to Carrick, Nani, to even lumps like Anderson, I actually liked them.
I never liked Moyes, loathed Van Gaal, don't like Mourinho that much, and I don't really even like any of the club's current players (as much as I liked the previous ones), which makes it so much easier to detach myself and not care as much, as I actually don't even like anyone at the club.
I loved Fergie, I loved the players under him, from Evra, to Vidic, to Carrick, Nani, to even lumps like Anderson, I actually liked them.
I never liked Moyes, loathed Van Gaal, don't like Mourinho that much, and I don't really even like any of the club's current players (as much as I liked the previous ones), which makes it so much easier to detach myself and not care as much, as I actually don't even like anyone at the club.
Me too. I think Jose will come good. Its easy to look at other teams and say "they got a new manager and they're doing well" but i think the rot had already set in at United and its going to take a season or two before its completely gone. I look at our squad and while i see some good players theres a lot of "meh" which needs to be removed.
This will all take time.
It definitely feels like we are living out the nightmare scenario of the post Fergie-era.
I was born ten years before you, and I've also only ever known the sweet taste of success as a United supporter. Right now, I very much feel the way I always imagined it must have been like to be a Liverpool supporter. I guess it's healthy to walk a mile in someone else's shoes every once in a while, but I've learned my lessons and I'm ready to go back to United being all conquering again. Please?
I was born ten years before you, and I've also only ever known the sweet taste of success as a United supporter. Right now, I very much feel the way I always imagined it must have been like to be a Liverpool supporter. I guess it's healthy to walk a mile in someone else's shoes every once in a while, but I've learned my lessons and I'm ready to go back to United being all conquering again. Please?
It's strange for me, after the early goal against Chelsea & last night, I was resigned to losing the game, but, I felt so bad after those games, Burnley was the same, 15 minutes in & I had a feeling it would be one of those days, I have accepted that we're shit these days, but I still feel so bad for days after a bad result.
I'm going to start trying this. It's a bit unfair on my family me being in a bad mood half the time. How did you manage it?
I think a lot of United's problems stem from signing good players who possibly see United as their final destination, & as some sort of reward for all the hard work they've done at previous clubs. Once they settle in & start picking up their mega-wages it makes you wonder if they lose the hunger & desire that got them there in the first place. There's a lot of money in the PL now, how many unknown players have we seen sign for the so called lesser clubs who've turned out to become match-winners week in, week out ? They still have that hunger & desire to prove themselves. Can you honestly same the same about a lot of your players ?
Well, I'm a long supporter of United and I've certainly been through worse. The only thing worrying me at the moment is I just can't relate to any of the players in this team. I'm not just harking back to the class of 92, I think of players we have bought over the years who would never give a nonchalant performance like last night (and quite a few others over the last three years). It just feels as though they don't really care about United in the same way. It feels the more they are payed, the less they care to be frank. United supporters have been brought up through the various generations seeing players bleed for the club, it's difficult not to see that passion at the moment and makes one feel rather distant from the team in general.
I suppose one shouldn't tarnish all the players, I mean Mata, Herrera seem to play with commitment and love of the club, but I suppose they are a collective and all of them get stained somewhat.
I suppose one shouldn't tarnish all the players, I mean Mata, Herrera seem to play with commitment and love of the club, but I suppose they are a collective and all of them get stained somewhat.
I expect bad results, lack of goals and us having no hope of the title but it still hurts and gets me in a foul mood after every defeat or draw. My wife has not taken so much interest in United as she has the past 3 years, she knows she will be getting on the receiving end of my bad moods which are becoming, it seems a weekly occurrence.
What bothers me the most is Moyes was just shit, but Louis and now Jose just tinker way too much and make our better players worse by constantly playing them out of position and then the over reliance of useless turds on too regular a basis is my biggest complaint and that I cannot let go or accept anymore.
I look at all the other top teams in our league and Europe and everyone plays exactly where they play at their best but no not at United, you must be adaptable as well as average it seems to play for us. Also too many players on such a pedestal its like they are bigger than the club. Unless you have a squad of 13 players I 'd say if you are shit you get dropped. Simple whoever you are.
I know its not football manager or fecking Fifa but seriously I believe like a lot of us that when all players are fit I could pick a better team than our most recent managers seem to do.
What bothers me the most is Moyes was just shit, but Louis and now Jose just tinker way too much and make our better players worse by constantly playing them out of position and then the over reliance of useless turds on too regular a basis is my biggest complaint and that I cannot let go or accept anymore.
I look at all the other top teams in our league and Europe and everyone plays exactly where they play at their best but no not at United, you must be adaptable as well as average it seems to play for us. Also too many players on such a pedestal its like they are bigger than the club. Unless you have a squad of 13 players I 'd say if you are shit you get dropped. Simple whoever you are.
I know its not football manager or fecking Fifa but seriously I believe like a lot of us that when all players are fit I could pick a better team than our most recent managers seem to do.
I've been saying that United had been decline for years now. However I never thought it would feel this shit after being proven right
Like I said in another thread, each week I say i'm not going to let the bad result get to me this coming week but then when the bad result happens I feel upset and angry again. Like groundhog day these days.
I know things are bad because my dad who was a season ticket holder from the 70's up until a few years ago is now scaling back. He never used to ever miss a match now he only watches us if he isn't doing anything else.
I know things are bad because my dad who was a season ticket holder from the 70's up until a few years ago is now scaling back. He never used to ever miss a match now he only watches us if he isn't doing anything else.
We're in a right state and I'm still angry with every performance but my expectations are similar now to the eighties. We were entertaining back then at least. United have struggled to make me feel good for 4 years now and I don't think it'll get better anytime soon.I try not to think about football to much inbetween games. That's my coping strategy.
Din't even watch the game and don't even know where we stand in the EPL or Europa table. And it's not as if I was unable to watch. I just did not bother.
No, it hurts inside and it pisses me off. And all these opinions about our decline being inevitable, like it's some kind of a superficial thing, and that City and Liverpool (our fiercest rivals) are our nemesis make my head want to explode.
We're at a crossroad, the PL is evolving and the man to whom we had handed out the keys is gone and now we must find a way to stay afloat. It's one of the most important periods in the history of the club and i don't intend to stay away from it just because there's not enough silverware to keep me happy.
We're at a crossroad, the PL is evolving and the man to whom we had handed out the keys is gone and now we must find a way to stay afloat. It's one of the most important periods in the history of the club and i don't intend to stay away from it just because there's not enough silverware to keep me happy.
Sorry mate but that really is glory supporter talk. sounds like you support winning rather than united.
I don't say that to be a dick, but fans of just about every club in the world (in the grand scheme of things), have it worse than us. there are 90 odd teams in the english football league, only 7 better than us. imagine what its like supporting exeter city, or scunthorpe, or sunderland. yet those fans still support the team.
Not saying there is anything wrong with being a "glory supporter", but it sounds like thats what you are to me. i guess its just a different mentality.
In answer to OP, i'm becoming used to defeat. i don't really think losing games matters that much at the moment as i don't expect us to win any trophies anyway. sad state of affairs really. i was at the stoke game and wasn't even that gutted we failed to win, i sort of expected it. when i was at rhe 4 4 game against everton a few years back i was devastated we'd drawn, felt like a defeat. we lost the league that day. drawing to stoke now? makes no difference really.
I get emotional for like an hour after a bad result, after that I just stop caring and look at who we got next.
After our first loss of the season against City, I was annoyed but still hopeful. Then we kept on losing and the fears of yet another mediocre season started creeping in, I think it was after the Chelsea game where I just started not giving a shit any more. I don't know why I bother wasting 2 hours of my life two or three times a week to watch players who stop giving a shit when things get a little tough, then get upset about it afterwards.
It does amaze me how I got so used to utter mediocrity so quickly. Just a few years ago, losing 5 games in all comps by November would have really angered me.
After our first loss of the season against City, I was annoyed but still hopeful. Then we kept on losing and the fears of yet another mediocre season started creeping in, I think it was after the Chelsea game where I just started not giving a shit any more. I don't know why I bother wasting 2 hours of my life two or three times a week to watch players who stop giving a shit when things get a little tough, then get upset about it afterwards.
It does amaze me how I got so used to utter mediocrity so quickly. Just a few years ago, losing 5 games in all comps by November would have really angered me.
Dont even care if we lose now. Used to hurt back in the days but we always had the next game to get things right. If we lost back in the days I had to switch my phone off to avoid the 'banter' from fans/friends who got more joy seeing United lose than watching their team. Now they dont even bother. Back then it was all about getting stuff done early so it doesn't clash with United. It was fun to watch but now I dont care if I miss a game. The Burnley game really upset me though especially with our rivals scoring goals for fun. Took me a while to get over that even though we didnt lose.
ThisIt still hurts for days for me, to the point where i'm questioning if my relationship with Man Utd is healthy
Sick and tired by the lack of direction from the club. We make decisions in east and west, no clear plan.
Watched the game yesterday with a roommate of mine who is also a United fan. We are both just despondent at the state of this club. It still hurts like hell too.
One thing is for sure. The next time we win the league I will make the most of it. Never will I take these honours for granted again.
He took over a team that needed to be rebuilt. So did Moyes, LVG, and now Mourinho. It'll never happen unless we give someone the time to do it.
Under Fergie, when we'd have the odd shocker of a result, I'd be angry for days. It would really get to me. This followed on for a while under Moyes and Van Gaal but the last time I was genuinely angry after a game was West Ham last year. Unlike with Fergie, there was no bounce back and uplifting response to that performance, which used to make everything good again or allow us to believe in the team again.
That West Ham game broke me. I just don't believe in them anymore. I actively dislike several members of the squad after that game and the antics on the bus before it and I just feel numb disappointment towards results and performances since.
Obviously I still support my club. I go to games and buy the jersey. I pay for the TV package to watch them and I'll keep hoping for better, but it's going to take a while before I believe again.
Last night at about the 80 minutes mark, one of my mates asked "Can United even score?", and immediately I thought back to Tyldesley saying "they always score!". How times have changed.
That West Ham game broke me. I just don't believe in them anymore. I actively dislike several members of the squad after that game and the antics on the bus before it and I just feel numb disappointment towards results and performances since.
Obviously I still support my club. I go to games and buy the jersey. I pay for the TV package to watch them and I'll keep hoping for better, but it's going to take a while before I believe again.
Last night at about the 80 minutes mark, one of my mates asked "Can United even score?", and immediately I thought back to Tyldesley saying "they always score!". How times have changed.
That summarises it will.
I watch every game but I'm not too bothered by results like I used to.
For me I've become tired of constantly being shocked and disappointed of our starting line up. We never have a settled starting line up. Dating back to the late SAF years, other teams seemed settled on a starting 11 but here we've always had a big squad with many squad players rotated. Spending time refreshing this site for a confirmed line up only to be disappointed once the line ups is announced has wore me down. Mata dropped for Fellaini or Young could be an example.
There is no continuity, and I spend too much time being annoyed at the starting line up. I can take a defeat but there seems to be no bigger picture and no plan.
During this time football has become very boring for me. I've stopped watching other teams, I used to watch any live game that I could.
Now I'm more looking forward to the NFL Sunday than the PL, there I don't have to spend my time worrying about starting line ups.
For me I've become tired of constantly being shocked and disappointed of our starting line up. We never have a settled starting line up. Dating back to the late SAF years, other teams seemed settled on a starting 11 but here we've always had a big squad with many squad players rotated. Spending time refreshing this site for a confirmed line up only to be disappointed once the line ups is announced has wore me down. Mata dropped for Fellaini or Young could be an example.
There is no continuity, and I spend too much time being annoyed at the starting line up. I can take a defeat but there seems to be no bigger picture and no plan.
During this time football has become very boring for me. I've stopped watching other teams, I used to watch any live game that I could.
Now I'm more looking forward to the NFL Sunday than the PL, there I don't have to spend my time worrying about starting line ups.
I'll go out on a limb and say we are a poorly run club historically. This club realises too much on a figurehead yo achieve significant success, first Busby than Ferguson. We are a slave to this method and we need to stop that. They say it shouldn't take a genius to run a big time company - which is what we are really - but just another cog in the machine. I'll refer you to this article:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/11366206/Gary-Neville-The-era-of-the-gaffer-is-over.html
I'm starting to really believe that the path back to success for us (relatively) rests somewhere in the 'United way' (talented young footballers, quick penetrative passing and endeavouring to play good football rather than employing tactics for the sake of victory). Take the model presented in that article, apply our own terms to it (United way) and I'd be a happy man. I can live with losing if I no my club has an identity I can live with and I happen to love ours.
As far as the thread title, I don't see myself being detached any time soon. United bring far too much to my life. It's just a game at the end of the day I guess but its feels like more than that to me.
[QUOTE="AXVnee7, post:
I think by far the biggest predicament though, is the sheer number of 'false dawns' we've had over the last 3 years, and even to some extent this season. It just feels like every time we find a solution, a formation, the right midfield partnership, something else has to go wrong. Whether that's an injury, a drubbing, inconsistent performances or mental capitulations, it's just we never seem to progress. One can only get his hopes up so many times... [/QUOTE]
I write as a Liverpool fan - you've nailed it - it's the hope that destroys you, and (in our case) made us delusional.
Your problem is the same as ours - phenomenal success over a long period led fans, players and everyone connected to the club to believe it would continue forever, but once teams no longer fear coming to Anfield/Old Trafford they start to believe - play better and then home results suffer, refs stop giving the benefit of the doubt, the press is less supportive, signings are put under greater scrutiny and the whole thing leads to an atmosphere of negativity, lack of confidence and uncertainty. The hope comes from runs of good form, standout performances against high-ranking teams and the odd trophy along the way, but this masks the overall lack of that elusive 'something' - and it's harder for those people in charge because of the expectations at the club.
In our case it was a long and hard road, and the lessening of our powers was a gradual incremental one, but it was only when expectations were lowered that the new manager's methods were truly given a chance to work - in United's case I think it will be a rocky, but much shorter journey, because the club has the money and manager to attract top talent even if you suffer a short time away from Champions league, because ultimately it's when you have to settle for your second or third choice transfer targets (whilst your remaining true talent is leaving) that the problems become really apparent.
I think by far the biggest predicament though, is the sheer number of 'false dawns' we've had over the last 3 years, and even to some extent this season. It just feels like every time we find a solution, a formation, the right midfield partnership, something else has to go wrong. Whether that's an injury, a drubbing, inconsistent performances or mental capitulations, it's just we never seem to progress. One can only get his hopes up so many times... [/QUOTE]
I write as a Liverpool fan - you've nailed it - it's the hope that destroys you, and (in our case) made us delusional.
Your problem is the same as ours - phenomenal success over a long period led fans, players and everyone connected to the club to believe it would continue forever, but once teams no longer fear coming to Anfield/Old Trafford they start to believe - play better and then home results suffer, refs stop giving the benefit of the doubt, the press is less supportive, signings are put under greater scrutiny and the whole thing leads to an atmosphere of negativity, lack of confidence and uncertainty. The hope comes from runs of good form, standout performances against high-ranking teams and the odd trophy along the way, but this masks the overall lack of that elusive 'something' - and it's harder for those people in charge because of the expectations at the club.
In our case it was a long and hard road, and the lessening of our powers was a gradual incremental one, but it was only when expectations were lowered that the new manager's methods were truly given a chance to work - in United's case I think it will be a rocky, but much shorter journey, because the club has the money and manager to attract top talent even if you suffer a short time away from Champions league, because ultimately it's when you have to settle for your second or third choice transfer targets (whilst your remaining true talent is leaving) that the problems become really apparent.
I write as a Liverpool fan - you've nailed it - it's the hope that destroys you, and (in our case) made us delusional.
Your problem is the same as ours - phenomenal success over a long period led fans, players and everyone connected to the club to believe it would continue forever, but once teams no longer fear coming to Anfield/Old Trafford they start to believe - play better and then home results suffer, refs stop giving the benefit of the doubt, the press is less supportive, signings are put under greater scrutiny and the whole thing leads to an atmosphere of negativity, lack of confidence and uncertainty. The hope comes from runs of good form, standout performances against high-ranking teams and the odd trophy along the way, but this masks the overall lack of that elusive 'something' - and it's harder for those people in charge because of the expectations at the club.
In our case it was a long and hard road, and the lessening of our powers was a gradual incremental one, but it was only when expectations were lowered that the new manager's methods were truly given a chance to work - in United's case I think it will be a rocky, but much shorter journey, because the club has the money and manager to attract top talent even if you suffer a short time away from Champions league, because ultimately it's when you have to settle for your second or third choice transfer targets (whilst your remaining true talent is leaving) that the problems become really apparent.[/QUOTE]
Good post. And nice to see a Liverpool fan being decent and understanding because vast majority i've spoken to or heard from the last few weeks have been unbearable.
Very hard to be an United fan. Us Sporting fans got it easy
It has been three years. Three turbulent, damaging years.
But to suggest that our long-term future is terminal, is daft.
Whilst it feels unlikely now, Mourinho and the squad could just as easily find themselves hitting form, finding confidence, enjoying a bit of luck and more importantly winning. We have a nucleus of great players. All the pieces are there and with patience, Mourinho can make it work.
What has happened to all the posters on here who were waxing-lyrical about our first home performance against Southampton? 'Manchester United are back' some professed, 'that was like watching Manchester United of old' others said.
We have problems, no doubt. But we're a long way from being finished.
Yep, not even shocked when I find out we've lost.
Disappointed still, but not shocked.
Though I have found this season at least watchable, which is a plus
Disappointed still, but not shocked.
Though I have found this season at least watchable, which is a plus
They're still competing, season in season out. We aren't, we're not even typically capable of achieving top four. If you're not willing to accept the basic premise that we've declined over a period of years then it's pointless debating it further.
They finished fourth, not fifth, which is why they, unlike us, are in the champions league.
Definitely desensitised. If youve had the living shit kicked out of you, I imagine the last few blows dont hurt as much as the first ones. I imagine your body turns down the dial on your pain in order to cope with it.
Losing used to be much harder, I used to have to work hard not to be in a bad mood and inflict it on my family. Its easier to laugh it off now. Its become a bit of a joke.
Its not about caring any less. Its about coping.
I remind myself it will be all the sweeter when we do turn things around. I just dont know how long itll be before that happens.
Losing used to be much harder, I used to have to work hard not to be in a bad mood and inflict it on my family. Its easier to laugh it off now. Its become a bit of a joke.
Its not about caring any less. Its about coping.
I remind myself it will be all the sweeter when we do turn things around. I just dont know how long itll be before that happens.
I actually found myself laughing when Fenerbache scored their second last night. It was like I wasn't even watching the team I supported anymore and I barely cared.
The heart has been ripped out of this club. The decline and departure of Scholes, Giggs, Neville, Rio, Evra, Vidic etc was inevitable and that was the start of our downfall but then selling the likes of Welbeck, Cleverly, losing Fletcher, even selling johnny Evans who weren't the greatest players but were United through and through and loved the club with a passion, left me feeling a lot less connected to the club. It is now just a bunch of random mercenaries who have no fight or desire to win and no real love for the club.
The difference between Man Utd and the other top sides in England when Fergie was here was our British spine of players who would die for the club. When Ferguson left and those players left United became no different to any of the other top 6.
The heart has been ripped out of this club. The decline and departure of Scholes, Giggs, Neville, Rio, Evra, Vidic etc was inevitable and that was the start of our downfall but then selling the likes of Welbeck, Cleverly, losing Fletcher, even selling johnny Evans who weren't the greatest players but were United through and through and loved the club with a passion, left me feeling a lot less connected to the club. It is now just a bunch of random mercenaries who have no fight or desire to win and no real love for the club.
The difference between Man Utd and the other top sides in England when Fergie was here was our British spine of players who would die for the club. When Ferguson left and those players left United became no different to any of the other top 6.
After so many bad results over the last three years, it is only natural to downplay your own expectations (even if you shouldn't have to given how much money we burn through on transfers and wages). The most disappointing aspect is that I thought that, structurally, we were immune to a repeat of the 70s and 80s, just as Real Madrid, Barcelona and Bayern seem to have a floor of 3rd.
Completely agree we need to give him time to rebuild. I'm just saying that the foundations for the rebuild by now should be in better condition than the squad Fergie took over. We've spent over half a billion since Fergie left... he didn't have such riches at his disposal in 86.
No matter how you cook it, the handling of the club has been less than admirable since 2013. One idiotic decision after another & we're unfortunately still feeling the aftershocks.
Jose should look into the academy . He will find youngsters with fight and commitment there . Players like Tuanzbe, Riley , Williams , Mensah ,Wilock , Harrop will show more fight and character