Are we in the Dalglish stage?

Discussion in 'Manchester United Forum' started by Solius, Oct 8, 2019.

  1. Oct 8, 2019
    #1

    Solius Bearded Scholes admirer Staff

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2007
    Messages:
    61,858
    Location:
    Toronto
    I know a lot is being said right now about what's going on with the club and I can't help but see similarities with us and Liverpool when they brought back Kenny Dalglish to manage them in 2011.

    I can remember us laughing at them almost every week when they were struggling to pick up points and the man had them playing dull and stiff football. He took over temporarily at first but there were then calls to make him permanent manager, which they did. It wasn't great, and a lot of Liverpool supporters refused to turn on him though due to his status at the club and he stayed in the job for a year before eventually being sacked.

    The next thing they did? They brought in a young manager who had a defined style of play. Swansea at the time were playing good football and despite what you may think of Rogers he did pretty well at Liverpool and was a slip (lol) away from a title. Klopp then had that base to build on when he eventually came in.

    Moyes was a footballing dinosaur, we all know that. LVG was pretty similar in that vein too. Mourinho is a bit more modern but still had that stubbornness and refusal to accept players sometimes need an arm round the shoulder. Ole, despite being one of the younger generation of managers these days seems to also be stuck in the 90's with his thinking. It's pretty obvious that even just copying what Fergie did doesn't work anymore. If SAF was still manager he'd have completely changed his style by now because he was excellent at moving with the times.

    The four managers we've had though, can anyone tell me the difference between their styles? Because all I've seen for the past 6 years is us passing it across the face of the opposition box and hoping an individual does something brilliant.

    I do think it's a matter of time until Ole goes and I wish him the best. I really hope we hire a young exciting manager because what else have we got to lose?
  2. Oct 8, 2019
    #2

    12OunceEpilogue Full Member Scout

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2016
    Messages:
    8,590
    Location:
    Wigan
    It's a fair analysis, though it makes Jose our Roy Hodgson, to which I'm sure he'd say 'not special'.
  3. Oct 8, 2019
    #3

    Needham Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2013
    Messages:
    10,397
    You're also optimistically aggregating Liverpool's 20 plus years of crap and rage into just 6. Utd could be also rans for years to come yet.
  4. Oct 8, 2019
    #4

    El Zoido Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2013
    Messages:
    7,046
    Location:
    UK
    Liverpool were never as bad as we are now.
  5. Oct 8, 2019
    #5

    balaks Full Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2014
    Messages:
    7,716
    Location:
    Northern Ireland
    Supports:
    Tottenham Hotspur
    I think there is a very strong chance of that happening.
  6. Oct 8, 2019
    #6

    Lay Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2013
    Messages:
    8,613
    Location:
    England
    Yes they were.
  7. Oct 8, 2019
    #7

    Sir Scott McToMinay New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2018
    Messages:
    2,739
    Location:
    Acapulco, Somalia
    We are, now where is our Suarez?

    They most definitely were.
  8. Oct 8, 2019
    #8

    Big Ben Foster Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2008
    Messages:
    6,305
    Location:
    Brasileiro in Chicago
    Supports:
    Also support Vasco da Gama
    Main difference is Liverpool were sold in 2011 to new owners who actually cared about the product on the pitch.
  9. Oct 8, 2019
    #9

    AshRK Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2017
    Messages:
    5,218
    Location:
    Canada
    They were disastrous. But if we keep on losing more points then Ole would eclipse Daglish's time at pool.
  10. Oct 8, 2019
    #10

    OnlyTwoDaSilvas Gullible

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2013
    Messages:
    17,356
    Location:
    The Mathews Bridge
    Seems more like the Souness/Evans/Houllier stage.

    Resting on laurels of 20+ years of dominance, stubborn to the fact that the club has been left behind in many areas, clubs we deemed smaller than us are either creeping up behind or are already speeding past us.

    Our next manager might be our Rafa Benitez, who might propel us forward a bit and win a few cups, but ultimately fall short of expectations. Hopefully we wont follow that timeline precisely and end up with a Roy Hodgson.
  11. Oct 8, 2019
    #11

    clarkydaz Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2013
    Messages:
    8,992
    Location:
    manchester
    What calibre of players did they have back then? Gerrard etc, compared to this lot
  12. Oct 8, 2019
    #12

    Reynoldo Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2006
    Messages:
    3,994
    Location:
    Dublin
    Yeah but everything moves faster these days and nobody has any patience so hence the expedited timelines ;)
  13. Oct 8, 2019
    #13

    Sterling Archer New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2016
    Messages:
    4,091
    Not a bad comparison. Highlights the important fact: our success depends on Woodward's next decisions. Much the same way the last several seasons results have. We need to focus attention higher than the manager with the long term in mind
  14. Oct 8, 2019
    #14

    Sir Scott McToMinay New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2018
    Messages:
    2,739
    Location:
    Acapulco, Somalia
    They’ve had Jay Spearing starting games in midfield.
  15. Oct 8, 2019
    #15

    Sandikan aka sex on the beach

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2011
    Messages:
    26,753
    Short memory!
  16. Oct 8, 2019
    #16

    Sandikan aka sex on the beach

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2011
    Messages:
    26,753
    At least when they brought their hero ex player back, he had won stuff and proven he could be a manager!

    Ours was based on little beyond playing rep.
  17. Oct 8, 2019
    #17

    Inigo Montoya Leave Wayne Rooney alone!!

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2008
    Messages:
    22,078
    Jamie Redknapp said quite clearly that they were. And he played for them at the time!
  18. Oct 8, 2019
    #18

    R'hllor Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2013
    Messages:
    11,830
    Not really, we are in our own version of shit.
  19. Oct 8, 2019
    #19

    Catt Ole's at the wheel!

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    18,421
    Location:
    Norway
    They were
  20. Oct 8, 2019
    #20

    CassiusClaymore Is it Gaizka Mendieta? Scout

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2008
    Messages:
    27,105
    Location:
    None of your business mate
    I like the idea we're going through an accelerated Liverpool style cycle. Gives me a sense of optimism that isn't there when I wake up in the morning.

    I'd have Mourinho down as our Rafa in that case.
  21. Oct 8, 2019
    #21

    OnlyTwoDaSilvas Gullible

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2013
    Messages:
    17,356
    Location:
    The Mathews Bridge
    That's a good point. Looks like we're going in reverse. Moyes was Hodgson, Mourinho was Rafa, I guess that makes Ole the equivalent to Souness, club legend but not really good enough. Then it's back to 20 years of domination. Sounds good.
  22. Oct 8, 2019
    #22

    Lynty Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2014
    Messages:
    960
    We do need a young manager with a clear style.

    Unfortunately, we haven't had the base for them to work with until now. That's why I like Ole. He wants to play modern progressive football. Unfortunately he isn't good enough to coach it. But he's building the squad for it and that will pay off for the next manager.

    Ten Hag was my oringal choice. But I don't watch enough football from the continent to have another opinion
  23. Oct 8, 2019
    #23

    GoldanoGraham New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2013
    Messages:
    151
    Good post - it also similar to the Sourness era - he came in, purchased lots of very average players (like he did at Rangers but that league was so poor he got away with it), the original winning team/players faded into the past and they were then on a cycle of mediocracy with shite players over and over......

    it’s ironic that he sits there on sky sports lording it up like the font of eternal footballing knowledge - having ripped the sole out of that team and replaced them with dross - then as now - whoever comes in after has a massive rebuilding job to do - that’s where we are now - we’ve loads of players to replace with upgrades - the question is can Ole do it? Will he retain the support and the players to see us through to the next transfer window?

    The only difference now in our cycle v Liverpool’s was that the managers churn much quicker now....
  24. Oct 8, 2019
    #24

    Gazza Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2000
    Messages:
    29,772
    Location:
    The District
    We are in the Dalglish at Newcastle phase, with 40 year olds John Barnes and Stuart Pearce.
  25. Oct 8, 2019
    #25

    AshRK Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2017
    Messages:
    5,218
    Location:
    Canada
    If I remember correctly they did have Torres for half a season and then bought Suarez and Carrol in January. They had Kuyt who scored a hattrick against us. Mostly they had dross.
  26. Oct 8, 2019
    #26

    SteveJ all-round nice guy, aka Uncle Joe Kardashian Scout

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2010
    Messages:
    59,357
    Location:
    Bigmouth Strikes Again
    Well we are acting like we're permanently pissed...
  27. Oct 8, 2019
    #27

    GDaly95 Sexist Pig

    Joined:
    May 1, 2013
    Messages:
    2,946
    Well, we are and we aren't.

    We're in it in the sense that we have a legend in charge and we're rapidly declining.

    Liverpool were saved by a takeover ultimately. The 'stages' they were in has no bearing on what 'stage' we're in.

    Liverpool were declining, then they were taken over and they worked their way into a transition period.

    We're just declining.
  28. Oct 8, 2019
    #28

    Inigo Montoya Leave Wayne Rooney alone!!

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2008
    Messages:
    22,078
    And finished 2nd with Gerrard,Alonso and Torres. I'd be happier with those 3 in the squad

    We forget that teams were getting closer year by year.
  29. Oct 8, 2019
    #29

    red thru&thru Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2004
    Messages:
    4,340
    Give FSG some credit, they put a plan and structure in place.
  30. Oct 8, 2019
    #30

    AshRK Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2017
    Messages:
    5,218
    Location:
    Canada
    That happened in 08-09 season. I was referring to the Daglish time, They were pretty dire since then for almost 3-4 seasons
  31. Oct 8, 2019
    #31

    SteveW Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2013
    Messages:
    5,895
    Every day another moaning thread with a fresh new angle.

    The Caf really does come alive when we lose a few games.
  32. Oct 8, 2019
    #32

    duffer Sensible and not a complete jerk like most oppo's Scout

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2004
    Messages:
    34,808
    Location:
    Chelsea fan.
    You're 1993 Souness stage.
  33. Oct 8, 2019
    #33

    El Zoido Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2013
    Messages:
    7,046
    Location:
    UK
    They never looked like serious relegation candidates for one! He’s just being colourful. Liverpool have not finished lower than 8th in 65 years. We will almost certainly finish lower than 8th this season and I’m fact very much look like we will be bottom half. Even when Liverpool have been inconsistent they’ve had good players and had the odd game where they put opponents to the sword. I’m sorry but it’s clear to me that we’re worse right now than Liverpool ever were.
  34. Oct 8, 2019
    #34

    Schmeichel's Cartwheel Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2014
    Messages:
    2,544
    Location:
    Manchester
    Their Hodgson side was the level we're at now.

    Martin Kelly, Jay Spearing, Cristian Poulson, Paul Konchesky, David N'Gog. Charlie Adam, Jose Enrique... the list goes on. They were woeful.
  35. Oct 8, 2019
    #35

    INeedAbsynthe New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2019
    Messages:
    23
    Supports:
    Liverpool
    I feel you are considerably worse off.

    Kenny although some serious time had passed is a league winning manager, some of his methods may have been outdated but he was far more qualified for the job then Ole is. Even Hodgson who was still horribly out of his depth and seemingly believed his relegation fighting methods would perfectly transition at least has a track record of being a solid premier league manager.

    Ole was utterly abysmal at Cardiff and probably would eventually been relegated again to league 1. The very act of landing that interim job along with the purple patch has created this illusion that he is far more qualified then he is. I see people and pundits demanding that he is given time and if he actually had a proven track record I’d agree but giving him time for the sake of giving him time is absurd.

    Yes there is a far bigger problem higher up but that doesn’t change the fact he still isn’t good enough.
  36. Oct 8, 2019
    #36

    INeedAbsynthe New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2019
    Messages:
    23
    Supports:
    Liverpool
    Woah now.
    Enrique and Kelly were decent back then.

    Poulson and Koncheskey though....I can’t find the words. As for Ngog I don’t think think the bloke even plays at a professional level anymore which says something .
  37. Oct 8, 2019
    #37

    charlenefan Far less insightful than the other Charley

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2005
    Messages:
    20,936
    I wish we were in the Dalglish stage, that would suggest light is at the end of the tunnel

    I'd say we're more in the Souness stage which is a really depressed fecking thought
  38. Oct 8, 2019
    #38

    Speedicut75 Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2014
    Messages:
    548
    Location:
    Greater Manchester.
    Bill Shankly .............. SAF.
    Boot room ............... Class of 92.
    Graham Souness ............. Ole Solskjaer.

    I am being flippant, before the derision begins, but I think there are similarities between the two clubs, particularly where the mawkishness in some elements of our respective fan bases are concerned; but UTD's fate, for now, is still divergent in most critical aspects, because of our enormous commercial prowess, but without that cushion, which accommodates so many mistakes, we'd soon also be facing 30yrs in the wilderness.
  39. Oct 8, 2019
    #39

    SilentWitness ShoelessWitness Staff

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2010
    Messages:
    15,392
    Location:
    Scotland
    Supports:
    Everton
    What you're saying is you're going to hire Eddie Howe who gets you back into the top 4 and then is sacked to be replaced by that Leipzig bloke and in 2025 you will be a CL winner and then by 2026 PL title winners again.

    I see it.
  40. Oct 8, 2019
    #40

    BlueHaze Full Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2018
    Messages:
    2,078
    LVG was the only one where I could see an actual style albeit dull as feck but it was all about passing it like a merry go round untill there was an opening and then transition to attack. The others I can literally make no difference of. It could be tedious with Jose going up though and then closing shop for the rest of the game clinging on for your life. Moyes and Ole play almost identical to me.