Are we turning the corner?
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Just shows that Valencia & Young should not anywhere near the starting line up and that Rooney & RVP just does not work. We could play this system again and go back to square one.
Judging by how this season has gone, we're due a spanking in our next game. Bayern are going to cane us now.
Oh no. 
Everytime that phrase comes up we inevitably look awful in the very next game, and this time it happens to be potentially our only remaining meaningful game.
Everytime that phrase comes up we inevitably look awful in the very next game, and this time it happens to be potentially our only remaining meaningful game.
Here we go again. No we aren't. We will never be anything above 6th under Moyes.
If I squint very hard and get close to the TV, do I see the outlines of a United manager starting to emerge? Or am I seeing the equivalent of Jesus in my toast.
Maybe the penny dropped for Moyes that Mata in the hole, with a striker up top, flanked by Kagawa and an x-factor player is our best system? Whether or not he got there by happenstance or not, surely he must build on such an approach.
Maybe the penny dropped for Moyes that Mata in the hole, with a striker up top, flanked by Kagawa and an x-factor player is our best system? Whether or not he got there by happenstance or not, surely he must build on such an approach.
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He will not be sacked at the end of the season. He will be given at least another half season. So hopefully these performances become the norm across the board.
I still don't understand why some of you are so sure with this stance. Are some of you connected to the Glazers?
Oh dear, the "turned the corner" thread. I think we should ban these discussions until we have turned "the corner" and are driving at top speed along the motorway, with "the corner" being a distant memory.
I'd say 5:0 in Leverkusen was at least as good a result as a home draw in the CL KO stage.
Chelsea had a few hammerings under Avram Grant, and also nearly won the Champions League. Talented individuals can do that. You judge the manager on what's happening as a whole.
These league results till the end of the season mean nothing. There's no satisfaction in turning a corner when there's nothing round it.
Because of a few things. Ferguson/Charlton in the background, match going fans not united in vocal opposition against him, injuries etc... Also, if he was going to be sacked, there have been so many convenient moments for the hammer to have been sacked eg Liverpool, Olympiakos, City...
I think at the end of the season he will be handed ultimatums for the upcoming season. "Alright David you've had time to assess the squad, now deliver". That's my personal opinion.
I would believe it if the team selection had been 100% his and not forced on him by circumstance.
Kagawa has sat on the bench for most of the season while Valencia and Young have stunk the place out out game in game out, Hernandez might as well of not bothered turning up for most match days as he hasn't had a sniff, Mata has been playing left wing where he has been largely wasted....
He has chosen to either not play, or play them out of position, the last two games he hasn't had a choice who he plays in the league and the results have been decent.
Kagawa has sat on the bench for most of the season while Valencia and Young have stunk the place out out game in game out, Hernandez might as well of not bothered turning up for most match days as he hasn't had a sniff, Mata has been playing left wing where he has been largely wasted....
He has chosen to either not play, or play them out of position, the last two games he hasn't had a choice who he plays in the league and the results have been decent.
Not saying Grants a great manager. But he managed to beat us, Arsenal and Liverpool in the league. And knocked Liverpool out the champions league.
They weren't really hammered that season. They lost a few close games.
There have been solid signs since february. A lot of inflexibility and not much desire or confidence at times, but since february, when we have attacked the football has been attractive.
Been let down lots of times by the defence - whether you say either its moyes fault or not. We've had worse injuries than any other team has had to contend with, but if you say Moyes should have made better efforts to get a more settled and less awkward back four it would be hard to argue.
I think the answer to the question is 'nobody should ever ask this question after 1 game'. or even a few games. It's bee a gradual process of our style changing a lot, players coming to terms with things and forming partnerships. Biggest problem is our squad is still really awkward because of SAFs RVP signing. Lots of our selection problems this season very simply stem from us having two aging and massively well paid centre forwards. Best thing that can happen this summer is 31 year old RVP leaving the club. He's a brilliant, useful player, but 1) he doesn't seem to have adapted well to moyes and 2) he's getting old and getting in the way of us developing Welbeck etc. Welbeck has been amazing this season IMO, let's start next season with him as a main man.
Even though it's the best thing for the club IMO it will still be a PR disaster, since Moyes can't win with anyone. If he lets him leave the same people who are saying what I am saying will say 'RVP doesn't wanna play for a dinosaur like Moyes'. But the passage of time is something all great managers understand, and we can't rely on Rio, Vida, Evra, Carrick, RVP the next 2-3 season like we did with Giggs and Scholes way back then
Been let down lots of times by the defence - whether you say either its moyes fault or not. We've had worse injuries than any other team has had to contend with, but if you say Moyes should have made better efforts to get a more settled and less awkward back four it would be hard to argue.
I think the answer to the question is 'nobody should ever ask this question after 1 game'. or even a few games. It's bee a gradual process of our style changing a lot, players coming to terms with things and forming partnerships. Biggest problem is our squad is still really awkward because of SAFs RVP signing. Lots of our selection problems this season very simply stem from us having two aging and massively well paid centre forwards. Best thing that can happen this summer is 31 year old RVP leaving the club. He's a brilliant, useful player, but 1) he doesn't seem to have adapted well to moyes and 2) he's getting old and getting in the way of us developing Welbeck etc. Welbeck has been amazing this season IMO, let's start next season with him as a main man.
Even though it's the best thing for the club IMO it will still be a PR disaster, since Moyes can't win with anyone. If he lets him leave the same people who are saying what I am saying will say 'RVP doesn't wanna play for a dinosaur like Moyes'. But the passage of time is something all great managers understand, and we can't rely on Rio, Vida, Evra, Carrick, RVP the next 2-3 season like we did with Giggs and Scholes way back then
Newcastle have been horrendous vs everyone recently. Southampton could have beaten them 10-0 last week
biggest reason is the team SAF left him. RVP and Rooney have to play all the time, Fergie realised it wasn't working and dropped Rooney but clearly moyes thinks Rooney was too valuable to let go.. and looks like he has right. RVP was a signing that worked out short term but was a poor piece of squad planning imo
he's saying it an improvement from earlier in the season, so that's pretty irrelevant, we lost and drew games to plenty of teams earlier in the season that weren't very good
Lol funny post, I'm in the 'maybe' box too...
Lol, fair enough...
'turning the corner'... it makes all the difference... of course it could be a massive hairpin but hey... semantics
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We'll turn the corner once we sack him.
Exactly. The positive is that we are actually playing with swagger and meaning, as opposed to the lack of identity we've seen for the most part this season. As far as I'm concerned, Moyes has shown us some progress.
I still think the non-CL qualification explains all that, unless we fluke the CL...
Because of a few things. Ferguson/Charlton in the background, match going fans not united in vocal opposition against him, injuries etc... Also, if he was going to be sacked, there have been so many convenient moments for the hammer to have been sacked eg Liverpool, Olympiakos, City...
I think at the end of the season he will be handed ultimatums for the upcoming season. "Alright David you've had time to assess the squad, now deliver". That's my personal opinion.
We've been asking this plenty of times this season. I still don't think we're playing particularly good football. When you have players with football intelligence and technique like Kagawa and Mata in the team at the same time, you'll automatically get some moments of brilliance. But a coherent way of playing that flows naturally from defence to attack? I'm still not seeing it at all.
I'm saying they hammered a few teams. Grant is fecking woeful, and that's my point.
I'm still not confident the side is turning a corner as such because we haven't gone on a sustained run, whilst beating top sides, but drawing against the best side in the world and beating a mid-table side very convincingly are much better than some of our previous results.
Still, it doesn't really alter my stance on Moyes all that much.
Still, it doesn't really alter my stance on Moyes all that much.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Well, maybe. But you can only know that with hindsight. Too soon to judge right now,
Well, maybe. But you can only know that with hindsight. Too soon to judge right now,
For the first time in the season I'm thinking yes, there'll still be a few bumps down the road but I think Moyes can make it here.
Victories against Aston Villa and Newcastle prove nothing. We'll have to wait and see.
Probably another false dawn in his United career. And probably it is the final one.
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Its good to get victories against mid table teams. It is perfect to help the squad gain confidence and momentum. We will be going into the munich fixture in best possible shape and confidence.
Huh? Potentially with both Van Persie and Rooney injured?
Yes it's good for the morale but such victories do not tell us a lot about where we stand. Rather, I've always believed the top games indicate how good teams and players are. Let's not forget, we lost to Liverpool and City at home with 6-0 combined. I do think we've improved over the past weeks, but as for "turning a corner", one should calm down and let things play out. If this form can be maintained for the Bayern (we don't necessarily need to win) and Everton games, things are hands down looking bright.
We still have a mountain to climb. Yes, we are starting to look better. We seem to have put aside the "pass it wide and cross" tactic that's been haunting us all season, our passing has become more direct and it doesn't take us an eternity to build up an attacking move.
Most important, at least to me, thing is that the players seem to have more distinct roles on the pitch. They know what their task is and they have better understanding of each other's movements. It looks like the manager has finally found a way to make them look better as a unit.
But the truth is that we are currently under no pressure in the EPL as we have nothing to play for. It's not the first time a team performs well, especially towards the end of the season, when all pressure has been lifted off the players. Moyes should be judged on how well he does when winning is a must weak after weak.
Another issue is that statistically we are still nowhere near the top 4 teams in the "chances created" category. We have improved our finishing and that has made the difference in the last couple of games. Today we had 4 shots on target and scored 4 goals (hitting the post counts as an off target shot in the stats).
So, i'm not quite sure if we're turning the corner, but I certainly hope that's the case.
Most important, at least to me, thing is that the players seem to have more distinct roles on the pitch. They know what their task is and they have better understanding of each other's movements. It looks like the manager has finally found a way to make them look better as a unit.
But the truth is that we are currently under no pressure in the EPL as we have nothing to play for. It's not the first time a team performs well, especially towards the end of the season, when all pressure has been lifted off the players. Moyes should be judged on how well he does when winning is a must weak after weak.
Another issue is that statistically we are still nowhere near the top 4 teams in the "chances created" category. We have improved our finishing and that has made the difference in the last couple of games. Today we had 4 shots on target and scored 4 goals (hitting the post counts as an off target shot in the stats).
So, i'm not quite sure if we're turning the corner, but I certainly hope that's the case.
No. We'll turn the corner with a new manager who knows how to get the best out of the players we have. There's been too many "the penny must have dropped" moments already this season.
See what team he picks in the week. I'd wager that the penny hasn't even left his wallet. He is a Scot after all.
See what team he picks in the week. I'd wager that the penny hasn't even left his wallet. He is a Scot after all.
if he doesn't start using mata and kagawa more in positions they do the most damage over the last few games of the season then he should be sacked.
This 'turned the corner' rubbish reminds me of Gerard Houllier at Liverpool when they were turning in crap after crap.
I'd rather we just looked at the positives from the result which were that with players like Mata,Adnan,Kagawa the potential is there for some good football
I'd rather we just looked at the positives from the result which were that with players like Mata,Adnan,Kagawa the potential is there for some good football
We weren't setting the world on fire when RVP was playing alongside rooney and mata. Defensively we are in better shape than we were for the first leg which means a lot especially against Bayern away. I am sure we will get rooney back for the return leg, so best shape possible.
Is this after he takes us below his former club in the league table? It's all a bit late in the day when we absolutely nothing to play for.
A bit too soon to tell at this point. A lot of the changes to the team have been forced because of injuries.
Kagawa would probably still be on the bench if not for the RVP injury. Adnan came on today because Young got injured, and Valencia had to play RB. The real test will come when all the players are fit. Will we stick with the working formula, or will we disregard it and revert back to the stuff that was not working ?? The problem is, that we have stumbled upon some good combinations in the past, but when the chance arose, we reverted back to type.
Let us wait till the end of the season, we should probably have a better idea by then.
Kagawa would probably still be on the bench if not for the RVP injury. Adnan came on today because Young got injured, and Valencia had to play RB. The real test will come when all the players are fit. Will we stick with the working formula, or will we disregard it and revert back to the stuff that was not working ?? The problem is, that we have stumbled upon some good combinations in the past, but when the chance arose, we reverted back to type.
Let us wait till the end of the season, we should probably have a better idea by then.