Are we (United fans) part of the problem...?

Ken Barlow

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The only consistent things spanning across the last 18 years is (a) consistent decline (2) being owned by the gimps and (3) us fans.

Should it be us fans that break this cycle of the club replacing actual strategy of a football club, with fan sentiment graphs? Are we the problem if what the club is more focused on manipulating us fans into believing things are different than they really are, rather than actually running a football club?

Just for context, a quote from Phil Lynch (CEO of media! at the club) almost 2 years ago, on how they are using pixels on the internet to manage players, and manipulate fans.
'We pull, twice a day, fan sentiment graphs for every one of our players. We have certain thresholds that alert us when we see fan sentiment going one way - be that a personal issue, an on-pitch performance issue and when that happens, we then start to work with the player and his team individually to try and counter that narrative a little bit.
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If the club is using similar methods for more important stuff, maybe it explains why all we ever seem to do is wait for problems to happen and firefight.
 
Sack the fans and get some Qataris in I say.

Also, is the grass too long? Maybe we should play on concrete.
 
Ken Barlow said:
The only consistent things spanning across the last 18 years is (a) consistent decline (2) being owned by the gimps and (3) us fans.

Should it be us fans that break this cycle of the club replacing actual strategy of a football club, with fan sentiment graphs? Are we the problem if what the club is more focused on manipulating us fans into believing things are different than they really are, rather than actually running a football club?

Just for context, a quote from Phil Lynch (CEO of media! at the club) almost 2 years ago, on how they are using pixels on the internet to manage players, and manipulate fans.


If the club is using similar methods for more important stuff, maybe it explains why all we ever seem to do is wait for problems to happen and firefight.
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If they operate key decisions like that, they are utterly incompetent. Fan sentiment can be easily changed by a good PR department.

In other words.... no
 
Probably. Match going supporters and those on social media refused to turn on the likes of Ole for a long time. The club didn't react until we were at absolute rock bottom, the fans had given up completely and our players were in the mud. Any other club would have acted sooner and brought in a new manager to reinvigorate supporters and the team.

The same might be happening again now.
 
No but the levels of success at United, essentially dominance for a huge period of time, were far higher than any other club has experienced in recent history. Even Arsenal fans are toxically spoilt after winning 3 league titles over a 8 year period. We won 3 in a row and won doubles, trebles etc.

As badly as the club has been run, that success was never going to go on forever. There is therefore a very toxic attitude in this “decline” era.

It’s almost as though the club needs something really disastrous like relegation or something to start again. In reality we haven’t even spent more than 1 season in a row outside the CL places. We’re just treading mediocrity which is not what we have been used to.

Arsenal are again a good example of that when they just kept finishing top 4 and never challenging, it was so toxic. Then 6 straight years out the CL including a couple of years as a genuinely midtable team has put the fans in their place and attitudes have been reborn, and they are back on the up…
 
Madrid fans get their white hankies out every other week. They're the most successful team in the world. So no, United fans are quite sane considering what we have to deal with.
 
Nah, this rhetoric is levelled at us too about why we are playing so crap at home. We don't expect that much and I don't think you do when you take into account things like money spent, size of the club and what's being produced. It's a nice way for the media, club and players to deflect from the shite that's being served.
 
As an example I do feel like rashford wouldn't have tried to square it last night if the fans hadn't been on his back for the last 2 weeks saying how he "needs to fecking pass more". Social media is brutal for peoples' self-esteem.
Footballers should really stay away from it tbh, if i was a manager i would make them go on some sort of social media training course.
 
Ole'sattheWheel said:
As an example I do feel like rashford wouldn't have tried to square it last night if the fans hadn't been on his back for the last 2 weeks saying how he "needs to fecking pass more". Social media is brutal for peoples' self-esteem.
Footballers should really stay away from it tbh, if i was a manager i would make them go on some sort of social media training course.
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I am sure there are programs to prepare the players of the possible downsides. But I think, there needs to be a happy medium. Obviously most fans are clueless so their ideas are somewhat tricky to make use of but the general sentiment and maybe some of the background for it, is certainly something, the players should be aware of. Regarding the Rashford example: you'd hope that the staff would take the player and sit him down, telling him about what is bad about his play. Certainly not the fans responsibility.

Are the fans part of the problem - yes, I think they are. They are easy to manipulate, be that hysterical media or top red propaganda. A lot of them behave a bit naive and while that sounds like an accusation, it isn't really. Most of them only use football as entertainment, I wouldn't blame them for not knowing or understanding context and background. Social media and the media environment are cruel - not only towards us fans or Man United or football in general. Add this to a deteriorating culture of debate and a tendency to narcissism and selfrighteousness and you get the toxic environment, that often emerges. Crisis pulls the vultures. Bad news creates more attention.

Yes fans shouldn't buy clubs propaganda or fan service attempts, and they should be consequential about obvious issues like a leaking stadium and insane jersey prices, they should make sure the club knows, that they are aware of where we are as a club and what the reasons are. But on the same side, they have to show a healthy amount of patience, decency and goodwill. It is easy to slag someone off but sometimes, it can be better just to stand the bad feelings and keep your mouth shut. At this moment in time, I am pretty sure, that ETH is aware of what the current issues are. And I am sure he has a plan how to tackle them. If thats the right plan, we have to see but he is the one in charge and has enough hindrances to deal with, a hysterical fanbase doesn't have to added to it in my eyes.
 
NZT-One said:
I am sure there are programs to prepare the players of the possible downsides. But I think, there needs to be a happy medium. Obviously most fans are clueless so their ideas are somewhat tricky to make use of but the general sentiment and maybe some of the background for it, is certainly something, the players should be aware of. Regarding the Rashford example: you'd hope that the staff would take the player and sit him down, telling him about what is bad about his play. Certainly not the fans responsibility.

Are the fans part of the problem - yes, I think they are. They are easy to manipulate, be that hysterical media or top red propaganda. A lot of them behave a bit naive and while that sounds like an accusation, it isn't really. Most of them only use football as entertainment, I wouldn't blame them for not knowing or understanding context and background. Social media and the media environment are cruel - not only towards us fans or Man United or football in general. Add this to a deteriorating culture of debate and a tendency to narcissism and selfrighteousness and you get the toxic environment, that often emerges. Crisis pulls the vultures. Bad news creates more attention.

Yes fans shouldn't buy clubs propaganda or fan service attempts, and they should be consequential about obvious issues like a leaking stadium and insane jersey prices, they should make sure the club knows, that they are aware of where we are as a club and what the reasons are. But on the same side, they have to show a healthy amount of patience, decency and goodwill. It is easy to slag someone off but sometimes, it can be better just to stand the bad feelings and keep your mouth shut. At this moment in time, I am pretty sure, that ETH is aware of what the current issues are. And I am sure he has a plan how to tackle them. If thats the right plan, we have to see but he is the one in charge and has enough hindrances to deal with, a hysterical fanbase doesn't have to added to it in my eyes.
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Agreed
 
Thankfully a lot of the caf folk who want him out don't actually go to games
 
Probably all the shitehouse YouTuber channels of alleged fans. They just love the state of the club as it gives them so many more clicks than if it’s all going well. No 1 would be Brent the ex copper Forest supporter, feck knows how he’s gotten so many followers who lap up his spew.
 
Can't blame fans. The match going fans have supported the team through thick and thin. Those unable to have been voicing frustrations in only the ways they know how, which in the modern era of social media just comes off as petulant despite coming from a place of caring.

Most importantly fans can't be expected to know the business of running a football club. The Glazers are at fault and there's really not much we can do.
 
SilentWitness said:
Nah, this rhetoric is levelled at us too about why we are playing so crap at home. We don't expect that much and I don't think you do when you take into account things like money spent, size of the club and what's being produced. It's a nice way for the media, club and players to deflect from the shite that's being served.
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Aren't you an Everton fan?
 
PLC being run like one with PR is the right thing to do.
A football club cannot be a PLC because it moves away from the football and becomes Manchester United.
 
I can just imagine the smirk from Joel Glazers face when seeing the title of this thread.

Accountability lies with the owners 100%. To argue otherwise is complete and utter nonsense.
 
I know it's not the point of the thread but this...
The only consistent things spanning across the last 18 years is (a) consistent decline
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... jumped out at me. 18 years ago was 2005. I don't think we declined from 2005 to 2008, for one. I have rather different memories of that time.
 
Ken Barlow said:
The only consistent things spanning across the last 18 years is (a) consistent decline (2) being owned by the gimps and (3) us fans.

Should it be us fans that break this cycle of the club replacing actual strategy of a football club, with fan sentiment graphs? Are we the problem if what the club is more focused on manipulating us fans into believing things are different than they really are, rather than actually running a football club?

Just for context, a quote from Phil Lynch (CEO of media! at the club) almost 2 years ago, on how they are using pixels on the internet to manage players, and manipulate fans.


If the club is using similar methods for more important stuff, maybe it explains why all we ever seem to do is wait for problems to happen and firefight.
Click to expand...

2005 - 2009 a decline? :wenger::wenger:
 
It's like Disney and other billion dollar companies blaming the fans for speaking out against all the crap movies and TV-series lots of these companies are putting out nowadays. "The fans are Toxic!!" "Just enjoy it and don't complain" bla bla bla. Sick and tired of expecting to put up with mediocrity. United Fans are too damn complacent in my opinion.. We should protest more!
 
So the headline asks if we're the problem, then the post itself explains that the club is the problem?

Not sure I get this thread.
 
I think we have an extremely toxic online fan base. I don't think it translates to the fans in the stadium though.

The home fans don't react any worse than any other set of fans would and for a long time have actually been extraordinarily patient and supportive compared to most sets of fans. Even last night they were right behind the team and encouraging them on, and the team responded by mentally collapsing as soon as they took the lead.

Not being able to handle pressure isn't something the fans can do much about unless they just stop wanting the team to win.

The OP stuff about the club drawing up twitter reaction graphs and then speaking to the player's "team" about them gives you more of an insight into how we have some fruitloops running the club who are more concerned about marketing impact than football results impact, and also somehow miss that one is kind of dependent on the other.
 
The question was - are we part of the problem? The question wasn't if we are at fault or to blame for the problems - that is unquestionably on the owners.

I think the replies to this thread already answered the question. Thanks.
 
Yes. United should play in empty stadiums. I am half serious. We did well at away games during Covid did we not? Our players have performance anxiety I tell you.
 
It's me I guess. I am going to watch City instead. Hope it works.
 
Marcus said:
Yes. United should play in empty stadiums. I am half serious. We did well at away games during Covid did we not? Our players have performance anxiety I tell you.
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The last point is very valid. The players here are treated like kings, but when pressure comes to deliver, pee themselves
 
I can just imagine the Glazers, sitting there like Montgomery Burns, in a dimly lit room lit up by a computer screen showing graphs of How much United are worth then trying to take action when the value plummets.
 
don’t look at me, i was posting dogshit to carrington long before we became shit.
 
This is not victim blaming etc.

Apart from social media and TV, the major connection between the club, fans, coaching staff and players is in the stadium.

How are players going to give 100% when they know their fans will clap them away to the tunnel?

Show support to the team, but the bar is beneath the floor. Standards have reduced to nil. If you are a mid or bottom level club then clap the players and manager after a loss, but not with how we have recently performed as a top club.

If the manager does not motivate the players, then the fear of the fans turning on them should be a deterrent to the players.
 
pocco said:
Probably. Match going supporters and those on social media refused to turn on the likes of Ole for a long time. The club didn't react until we were at absolute rock bottom, the fans had given up completely and our players were in the mud. Any other club would have acted sooner and brought in a new manager to reinvigorate supporters and the team.

The same might be happening again now.
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I genuinely think INEOS would've sacked ETH after the FA Cup final if not for the overwhelming fan pressure that ensued.
 
United fans are a problem, but not necessarily part of the problem... Thats ETH and his tactics
 
Big Ben Foster said:
I genuinely think INEOS would've sacked ETH after the FA Cup final if not for the overwhelming fan pressure that ensued.
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If that is the case, then they are clearly not up to the job, and we are in even bigger trouble. Would hate to think there is any truth in that.
 
DownRiver said:
This is not victim blaming etc.

Apart from social media and TV, the major connection between the club, fans, coaching staff and players is in the stadium.

How are players going to give 100% when they know their fans will clap them away to the tunnel?

Show support to the team, but the bar is beneath the floor. Standards have reduced to nil. If you are a mid or bottom level club then clap the players and manager after a loss, but not with how we have recently performed as a top club.

If the manager does not motivate the players, then the fear of the fans turning on them should be a deterrent to the players.
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I agree, yesterday was quite pathetic
 
Big Ben Foster said:
I genuinely think INEOS would've sacked ETH after the FA Cup final if not for the overwhelming fan pressure that ensued.
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No chance, they don’t give a hoot about fans despite the ‘local guy’ Sir Jim at the helm. They just didn’t want to take the hit on psr from the payout.

If someone wants to argue fans being the issue, then as soon as the Glazers arrived match goers should have boycotted games for a season and forced them out but were no different to other fanbases, we moan and all think we’re experts but tune in regardless.
 
Yes far too sentimental and not clued up enough on modern tactics. A bad mix which allows frauds to get away with it for far too long and it’s been a rinse and repeat since Fergie left.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
I genuinely think INEOS would've sacked ETH after the FA Cup final if not for the overwhelming fan pressure that ensued.
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It was cringe worthy stuff. Like I always say, we've been fortunate to witness the best to ever do it, for 20+ years. You'd think our fans know a good coach by now. Yet that's not the case, quite the opposite in fact. We're definitely the least knowledgeable fan base collectively.
 
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