Are you confident of success in the INEOS era?

Von Mistelroum

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Not really. I can't see how it could be worse, but at the same time, I don't have much confidence. I've seen many false dawns and they all start out looking promising on paper.

Finally, we got Mourinho!

Yes! We got one of the hipster managers in at last!

Yay! We're poaching top level people for important roles finally!

But the Glazers are still in control. The club still exists to finance their lifestyle and money making will still be the main plan, regardless of the intentions of Jim.

The playing staff are still awful, and we can't just go out and replace them because our ownership has left us in financial difficulty, as well as handicapping us with their debts which will still remain. We can't sell them because the ownership has handed the most useless among them with the most immense contracts, so they'll still be here stinking up the place for years to come...and as a result, top players/managers will be reluctant to come.

Oh and we will have to fund a refurb/new stadium along with other infrastructure changes that the Glazers couldn't be bothered to do, which will also affect how much we can spend.

I feel it'll take a decade to rectify this, if it's even possible without massive investment.
 

Buster15

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Paul Merson says United won't win the league in the next 5 years and if they do then the manager who does it should be Knighted

Whereas Sir Jim says he thinks it'll be 2 or 3 years before we start looking like the United of old. He certainly has the pockets to make that happen if he wants to.

Even trying to look at it neutrally (let's say INEOS took over Spurs and targeted Berrada & Ashworth etc) I would think a title in the next 5 years - particularly when Klopp and Guardiola are gone - is doable.

Your take?
Who really cares what Merson says anyway.
He is a gooner.

Success will happen when we are doing all the necessary things correctly.
 

Krakenzero

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Just from the tip of my spreadsheet:

The total points obtained by the last 10 PL champions have been 91 on average. Considering the last 5 years it has increased to 93. It has only been under 85 once (Leicester in 2015/16). It's likely to be on the high 80s again this year.

During that 10 year period United have averaged 69 points (median is 67.5 and mode is 66), which has decreased to 68 when considering the last 5 years. United only got more than 75 points once (81 in 2017/2018), and has only got more than 70 points 4 out of these 10 seasons. This year is likely to be another 60-something.

For United to win a title in the next 5 years is not impossible, but it would require most (if not all) of the following conditions met:
-A sensational return to form (which is hindered by several factors like FFP or Home advantage weakened by Old Trafford's remodelation)
-A fluky / purple patch season in which United overperforms in at least 15 points its usual tally.
-A really low performance from the Main contenders to the title that year (which could he helped by Klopp leaving, Pep decaying or City being sanctioned and/or disbanded).
-The absence of other fluky teams able to capitalize on the situation (Arsenal, Spurs, Newcastle, Villa etc).

TLDR: it's possible, but it would probably be a fluke. To do this consistently the main goal for now should be to get 80 points per season again, which is already a feat (and it is what should be expected from a professional and seriously committed administration).
 

FerociousCorgis

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meh we shall see. If we start the next season with EtH, Casemiro, Varane, Bruno, Rashford all here, plus players like maguire and mctominay then not really. We see them all gone and really committed to resetting the culture and building a proper title team, then maybe.
 

Loon

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It’s coming from Merson (“Manunied”) so we’re quick to dismiss it, but I could just as easily hear it coming from Bryan Robson or Pat Crerand.

it really seems like we are a long way off and INEOS is no guarantee we will get back there, even if things do improve under them.

We waited 26 years last time. It could easily be that long again.
 

frostbite

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Yes, I am confident with INEOS.

The Glazers, like many posters here, have been trying to find the next SAF. A manager who will stay for 26 years and take care of everything. SAF was great for the Glazers, they did not have to make any hard decisions, just leave it to SAF and it will be fine. Like SAF, perhaps the new manager will not do great in the first 3 or 4 years, but we must have patience and allow him do whatever he wants, bring his own players, use his own agent, just let him be the king and wait and accept that we will be shit for a long while. But after that...

This doesn't work. It is like trying to win the lottery. We can't find another SAF. The new owners have to be ruthless, first and foremost with the manager. If it doesn't work, sack him early. ETH is a mediocre manager in every aspect of the game, transfers, tactics, man-management, in-game management... He broke too many negative records. Why is he still here? Only because some people believe he will suddenly transform into SAF. Well, no, he won't!

I believe INEOS will not have this outdated mentality. It suited the Glaziers, but INEOS is not like that, they will be more hands on.
 
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Plant0x84

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Paul Merson knows jack shit about anything is my take.
Who cares what Merson says?!
Merson is a halfwit so pay no notice to him.
Paul Merson :lol:
Paul Merson says a lot of things.
Its Paul Merson ffs.
Lock this thread due to the fact that the name Paul Merson is in it.
Merson is full of hyperbole.
Is the right answer. Well done guys.
 

Bertie Wooster

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I think the last decade has beaten any 'confidence' of success out of me.

However that pesky 'hope' always remains. And the arrival of INEOS, and early talk - matched by appointments - of Ratcliffe has at least given me fresh hope that we might start acting like a competent club prioritising aiming at success on the pitch. Which is a much better feeling.

Obviously, though, there's so much wrong that it'll take a good while to get to the level needed to overtake some competent opposition in terms of the major titles.

But hopefully we'll start to improve things reasonably quickly and start looking much more competent and closing the gap, and hopefully win a few more 'minor' trophies along that journey to seriously competing for the PL and CL in a few years time.
 

Rood

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Wouldn't say I'm confident of success but certainly expect things to improve rapidly

how quickly is the big question, no point putting dates on a potential title win but we should be expecting to be in the CL pretty much every year as a bare minimum and then build from there
 

The-Mezzala

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Paul Merson also said KDB would flop at City, Gary Rowett would be a better choice think it was for Hull or Watford at the time over Marco Silva. He is has been robbing a living on TV for years.
 
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RedBanker

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I don't think so. If we get the structure right then the manager is just another easily replaceable cog in a bigger machine. Based on what we've heard from SJR so far, gone are the days of the "dictator manager".
Structure doesn't deliver the goods on matchday. Tactics, training, in game subs, these things are tied to a manager only. City with the best "structure" would never hire limited managers such as Moyes or ETH. So yeah, the best of structures will require a top class manager to deliver success.
 

amolbhatia50k

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Too early to tell. But I definitely agree that we won’t win the premier league within 5 years. It’s a long road to the top and the first under INEOS will tell us a lot about whether we are headed in the right direction. Early signs have been promising.
 

Big Ben Foster

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Structure doesn't deliver the goods on matchday. Tactics, training, in game subs, these things are tied to a manager only. City with the best "structure" would never hire limited managers such as Moyes or ETH. So yeah, the best of structures will require a top class manager to deliver success.
That's not what I was addressing. My point is that not everything will rely heavily on the manager anymore, thus a poor appointment won't leave as much lasting damage. So "game over" is extremely hyperbolic.
 

RedBanker

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That's not what I was addressing. My point is that not everything will rely heavily on the manager anymore, thus a poor appointment won't leave as much lasting damage. So "game over" is extremely hyperbolic.
While game over was not meant literally because we will remain afloat on past laurels for a little while longer maybe, the point was that winning the most difficult league in the world might me just that much more difficult if we waste another two or three years on the wrong guy.
 

bringbackbebe

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1. We aren't going to go back to Sir.Alex era of dominance. Expecting it is just stupid.
2. We will improve since the alternative is getting worse which is not possible.
3. Owners being involved in the business, with focus on football rather than commercial, is a good thing after years of negligence.
4. Our academy is stronger than it was a few years back and we will produce a few more to compliment Garnacho & Mainoo.

With some structure, I can see us competing for top 3 consistently which should be our first goal.
 

Dannn411

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Nope. We've seen this type of off-field hype around Manchester United several times over the last 10 years only to fall flat every single time.
 

Offside

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2. We will improve since the alternative is getting worse which is not possible.
We haven’t even scratched the surface of what Liverpool and Arsenal have been through in even the last 10 years. Arsenal were out the CL for 6 years, Liverpool for 9 years. Both clubs have had trophy droughts of nearly a decade and finished consecutively outside the top 6. Not to mention decades long title droughts. Chelsea also now spending multiple seasons in midtable.

We haven’t even gone more than a year in the row outside the top 4, our longest trophy drought is less than 5 years and we’re only just past the first decade without a title. Things can get a lot lot worse and easily might before they get better!

Although, given every single signing has been a flop and every manager hasn’t worked out, maybe the fact we haven’t even been that bad is a sign that when we do sort out shit outer will swiftly return to the top? The potential of the club is still absolutely massive.
 

Tarrou

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a little bit, mainly in the sense that it's hard to be worse

they need to get rid of the glazers, obviously
 

Cerberus

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I'm undecided.

However, if Ineos are serious about focusing on footballing success and being proactive about making critical changes quickly when things aren't working then we should at least be able to win the League every now and then due to the sheer resources at our disposal.

I'm not expecting any period of sustained dominance as that requires a lot of things to fall into place perfectly and who knows when that will be even with good management.
 

tenpoless

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Since you quoted Merson, here are his other quotes so you can decide if he's worth listening to or not:

"If you keep walking past the barbers, eventually you'll get a haircut."
"In England, Rooney is a world-class footballer in the world."
"I think Southampton will finish above teams that are well below them."
"Reading won't have the confidence to be confident"
"Football's all about yesterday, it's all about now."
"Don't put too much pressure on Jack Wilshere... in years to come I think he will be an Arsenal great like Liam Brady"
"The best player I ever played against was Paolo Maldini. Maldini marked me and I didn't even get a kick of the ball all game."
(coz he was shite)
 

foolsgold

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Who really cares if it’s 3 or 5 years as long as the direction of travel is in the right direction. I’m happy to be patient.
 

Ibi Dreams

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Nope. We've seen this type of off-field hype around Manchester United several times over the last 10 years only to fall flat every single time.
The difference being that the INEOS acquisition is far, far more significant than anything else that has happened in that period

If you think things are just going to carry on the same, I think you're in for a shock. There will be big changes at United over the next few years
 

DJ_21

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Anything can happen. If we bring in the right people. Sign the right players, get the right manager then it could well be sooner than 3 years. Klopps leaving Liverpool so that could be 1 team on the downward spiral, if city have a bad year we need to be ready to take advantage. If the players and staff put in more than 100% effort then there’s no reason we can’t be successful sooner… we’ve already shown during our bad years that we can still beat the likes of city/liverpool. We just need to cut out silly mistakes and start dominating games and winning the games we should be winning.
 

Insanity

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No, but the ineptness of the previous regime was so mind boggling I am confident that they cannot be any worse. I can write a 200 page book on the gross mismanagement over the last 11 years of Woodie and co, without any research, just with stuff at the top of my head. It's surreal that such a huge organization, an institution in it's own right, was run so badly for so long.

I think it'll take a minimum of 3 years of getting at least 90% of the stuff right to get us back to challenging for the title again. So, Merson may well be right that we won't win the league in the next 5 years. However, with Klopp leaving and hopefully Pep following him out of the PL soon, the challenge becomes a little easier then it has been these last 8-9 years these two have been here. Despite the FFP monster (Our overall financial health is much better) that has been created by the media, I think we have enough resources, which if utilized wisely by the right people can get us there in the next 3-5 years.
 

tenpoless

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With Klopp leaving and Pep getting closer to his sabatical we might have a great chance in 1-2 years.
 

Nytram Shakes

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Confident ? no! Vaguely encouraged yes.

what the club has needed desperately since Fergie and Gill left was knowledge or how to build and run a club, Woodward clearly had no clue, and Murtough appointed was probably the most depressing appointment in the last decade

so the bringing in appointments from other clubs is really encouraging
 

Dec9003

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I think United throughout all the ten years have probably been a lot closer to the top than we think. I don’t believe in it being impossible or taking a minimum of five years. Football is a very simple game, if the people we’re hiring make the right decisions at the right time we’ll progress very quickly, like Newcastle did.
 

Dannn411

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The difference being that the INEOS acquisition is far, far more significant than anything else that has happened in that period

If you think things are just going to carry on the same, I think you're in for a shock. There will be big changes at United over the next few years
I hope so but I need to see tangible signs of lasting improvement before I buy in all the way.
 

SWE-Chucky

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I have my doubts.

But at least he is trying to make the football side of Manchester United his own but taking and had an CEO appointed after couple of days, the same man who was of the big reasons both Barcelona during their best years 2004-2011, but then also joined City and has been there from the start of their new era with the oil money.

He has proven one thing there, at least, and that is how you negotiate, he was the one that sealed all contracts for Manchester City after Pep, Txiki and probably Soriano decided which player they needed, they gave him the list and he made magic many times, not just not overpaying fees, agents, clubs but also being great in renewing contract and propose the right amount to your new players so they feel appreciated but also not getting 300k/week after your first year as an young talent.

He is a man, proven, to be workaholic, go that extra mile, stay upp all night sitting in jet travelling across the world to seal deals - now he will even have more power here then in city were he was "Berrada had been the chief football operations officer at City Football Group, which ultimately owns City and a host of other clubs across the globe. He operated closely with City director of football Txiki Begiristain on matters including transfer deals and contracts. He was involved in the high-profile signing of striker Erling Haaland in the summer of 2022".

So he has been involved in exactly everything in City, started with, sponsors, to being the chief football operations officer for the best club, at least top 3, for a couple of years. We really got world class CEO.

Now, if we can somehow find a solution (that is not paying more then 7-10m) with Newcastle, then we suddenly having another man that is world class in his jobb, Dan Ashworth as the Sporting Director.

That alone, for being here officially like 10 days (INEOS), is a great start, not to mention all the other names that are close to joining, and every single seems to be perfectly well connected and complement each other.
Also the promises about heavily investing, but also understanding (which you hear him talk about in his last interview from a couple of days ago) that both Carrington and Old Trafford are 20 years behind and, yes of course - the project will cost a lot money - but with 95.000 (20k more tickets every game), more restaurants, fresh bars, activity for the smaller ones and investing around Old Trafford with a 5 star hotell (believe he said that), but also rumors about a mall and a lot more to be build around the Trafford era. And also trying to get government could work, to build the Wembley of the north - build an landmark!

Now, when it comes to how long it will take for him and his team and all these great new signings that are not the eleven supposed to run on the pitch, how can we solve it with FFP:

- Some people claim that we have like £40m+ players we sell that are from the academy (?) so it would mean like another £35m (at beast) = So £75m transfer budget counting with selling Mason, otherwise £40m

- Other claims that we have someone how moved some payments, or have payed them to make space for some money and that it is about £100m

- Then we have those, cant even call it them those since this is reports coming often and that is that we have paid of some old transfers so we can have £100m but also that if Sir Ratcliffe goes in with his own money we could add another £100 so it would make it £200m AND on top of that, that what ever we sell and is available not breaking FFP rules, would also be added to the £200

- Then we are probably selling/letting go;
AWB £25
Lindelöf £15
Amrabat £0
Eriksen £10
Sancho £40
Pellistri £10
DVD £15
Martial £0
Greenwood £35*

= 115+35* added to £200m, so 315 (not counting on Greenwood being sold yet after they smooth talking when answering any questions - we lost the Greenwood morale fight the day the club saw all recordings etc but instead he is still employed by the biggest (top 3 at least) and we probably feel that his is way to good to let go for £30m and that his potential is world class, maybe so good that we can take the media/fans booing battle - but the club knows that even that shall pass)

Now if Rashford is really that unhappy, not motivated, wants to try something else and PSG comes in with a £80m bid (yes I believe it would land somewhere about that high because they are buying from Berrada now, Rashford is still young and showed last season what he has in him somewhere and also, Mbappe is a better player so does it better, but him and Marcus are very similar in the way they move, run against the opponents, same way of shooting the ball, both very fast and I am sure Marcus would be a 20-25 goals per season + 10A on a regular basis for probably 5-6 years over there.

Reason why i didnt place Varane on the list is because we didnt trigger his 1 year extension, I hope that they will reduce his salary and offer him 2+1 years or maybe 2y only so that he stays here for at least one more season.
When he is playing with someone he trusts, and that Dalot, Martinez and Shaw for him, Varane is looking like the Varane from 2014-2020.
Varane seems like true leader both on and off the pitch, and many former teammates have spoken about it - and you can not love the passion Dalot, Varane & Martinez makes a block or something and they celebrate it! We need more of that, it even makes the fans excited.

Another reason keeping him is him being role model for someone like Kambwala and in the best of world if we could add a CB talent like Jarrad Branthwaite (21y. Everton, English) or Antonio Silva (20y, Benfica, Portuguese). Benfica has made it very clear that nothing under his €100million (£85.5m) release clause will be accepted and that they will only sell one out of Silva and Joao Neves (20y, Benfica, Portuguese) - who would be so good for our midfield - but also with same price tag.

Branthwaite feels like the next Virgil that we can probably for £60m, but could as well be a new Phil Jones or Maguire - i dont why, but he reminds me of Maguire in Leicester where he used his big body to win a lot of duels and specially the air balls. But he has bad first touch, and not so impressive with passing, handling the ball or carry it. I might be wrong, but from 10 gamed and now some Youtube highlights I am not sure we are getting a new Phil or Harry, with 6 year contract that comes with being young, 20 good games, being English and Man United wanting to sign you - No thanks, even though Antonio Silva is £25m more expensive we get a modern CB that has the attributes that a CM should have - he can dribble, great passer, can carry the ball, leading his defense, strong both in the air but also in duells and very mature for only being 20 (born 2003). Having a defense line up with Varane, Martinez, Silva and Lindelöf (who I would keep instead of Maguire if we bring in new CB). They ideal would be to sell Maguire and Lindelöf and bring Silva and Todibo (£30m). I dont know, but Varane, Martinez and Todibo for £115m - £30 Maguire & £15m = £70m, getting 2 of the biggest CBS talents there is around in a group of where Varane is leading with his routine and winning mentality (he is still only 30y though), and Martinez is just someone you look up to and can learn how to use be the tallest on the pitch only being 1.75cm - its about the character.

The £70m + £30 for Frimpong would transform our defense, with having 2 top players and 3 out of 4 positions in the defense - where we need to make a decision. This summer both Mendy (Real Madrid) and probably L.Hernandez will be on the market for around £35-45m. Madrid will sell Mendy only because they want Davies playing LB for them instead. Or do we skip both, recall A. Fernandez from Benfica and finally give him a chance (or do we try to include him in deal for Silva and/or Neves for a cheap price but high % of potential sell). Or do we trust that Shaw play 75-80% of the games, how has Malacias injury affected him or should we take and chance with Shaw/Malacia and start to introduce maybe our biggest youth star in Harry Amass.

I wont go through all positions or players i think we should get rid of, i was just trying to see what options there are and were we stand with the budget for the summer and Greenwood.
 

Oranges038

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Paul Merson knows jack shit about anything is my take.
Well he was right about Harry Maguire and was forced to apologise on Sky after 1 game.


In response to this thread, Ineos have a lot of work to do, over the next two or three years we can expect to finish anywhere from 4th to 10th. There will be some meltdowns on here and people will be complaining and calling for the managers head.

Long term if they get all the appointments right and get the structure and recruitment in place properly then I am sure we will see success in the long term. But expectations have to tempered over the next few years. I don't think Utd will come close to winning the league or competing seriously for the title until 26/27 or 27/28.
 

Chumpsbechumps

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Wouldn't say I'm confident of success but certainly expect things to improve rapidly

how quickly is the big question, no point putting dates on a potential title win but we should be expecting to be in the CL pretty much every year as a bare minimum and then build from there
This is where I am at. I’m hopeful things will and should improve dramatically.

Things can always get worse but INEOs certainly look to be making the kind of changes I had been calling out for since Woodward signed fellaini.

This hyper focus on hiring/firing managers should hopefully be less of a thing. I’d expect them to move quicker on players in/out , particularly with bad eggs and under performers allowed to drag down the team.

A good start would be having a balanced squad that doesn’t need massive overhauls anytime a manager is changed. It’s the clubs responsibility to help the manager build such a squad , none of this “the manager chose that player” bollox.

The club should be structured in a way that a managers primary job is coaching the team. Not managing sex scandals , high profile interviews and high Profile players on the piss in Belfast.

A manager of a super club should not be expected to make do with Weghorst/Regullon level back ups. “The manager wasted funds on players” is what a sh*t run clubs fans will accept.

People need to reel in expectations. There is no linear upward trajectory guaranteed and hitting setbacks does not equate to failure. I could see a situation where there’s a manager change (or not) and things maybe get tougher for awhile. Some fans will default to their sack the manager mantra, but I trust INEOs can ignore that noise and the media hysteria and do their thing.

For me, we will know things are going well when it really doesn’t matter what manager we have, the worst we do is top 4 and only a half decent CL run.
 

Siorac

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We will improve since the alternative is getting worse which is not possible.
If only that were true.

We've yet to finish below 7th in the post-Fergie era, for example. Never gone two consecutive years without Champions League football.

There's plenty of room for further decline.
 

The_Midfielder

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Merson might be back on the gear, but he does have a point. Given FFP now, the amount of players we would need to replace/buy to get even close to the top 3 is ridiculous. Will take 5 years with other clubs remaining stagnant.
I don't see how the INEOS model can do any worse given the moves they are making. We just need a good manager and then we can start to improve and see how we get on.
If Pep leaves tomorrow , and we get 2 --3 good players... we might be in a shout next year ..all you need is 3-4 players that click..
 

Rista

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Confident of success as in winning things, not really. But that's based on a hunch as it's impossible to say. Talk itself is cheap, let's see what decisions the new people will make. I'm fairly confident it should at least be an improvement. At the very least the way the club is run should change significantly. Make the manager a lot less important so it's easier to part ways with him when it's not working out, like every normal club does. Do not build the squad to wishes of that particular manager, do not give him freedom in the transfer market.

If we do everything right and get the appointment just right, challenging in 3 years shouldn't be impossible. It's a big if though.