Arsenal 2020/21 - General Discussion

GoonerBear

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Came out a few days ago mate, that's why he missed the Chelsea game. Luiz & Willian missed it because they were close contact.

Edit: Sorry got that wrong, you are right. Seems I got players mixed up. Luiz & Willian were unwell, Gabriel was close contact, now confirmed.
 

Womp

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West Brom are shite and coming off a 5-0 loss to Leeds. That being said though, Arsenal did look very good today.
 

ThatsGreat

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A couple of wins back to back now for Arsenal. Signs of the changing tide?
The teams looks like a different side as soon as Willian was dropped and ESR was brought in to replace him. ESR has had a Bruno level influence on the team, just goes to show how important a decent AM is for a team. Expect us to make at least one more creative signing, and Partey returning will be lans.
 

trims

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Sure West Brom are poor but we also did also play our best attacking football this season against Brighton and Chelsea.

Dropping Willian for Smith Rowe and playing Saka in advanced positions (as opposed to LWB) more often has definitely improved our creativity and given us an extra dimension going forward. Martinelli has also been missed and has been good since coming back. Hopefully these players don't get any injuries and we can kick on from here.
 

NinjaZombie

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I won't begrudge Arsenal fans for being giddy. That goal by Tierney was a beauty and their second goal was vintage Wengerball.
 

ThatsGreat

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Just goes to show how little impact a manager has on a teams performances. We now have two teams that look totally changed after the introduction of a single player(Bruno, ESR).
 

Reddevildans

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Just goes to show how little impact a manager has on a teams performances. We now have two teams that look totally changed after the introduction of a single player(Bruno, ESR).
Sample size: arsenal: 3 games
United: 50+ games

But I get what you're getting at. One player can make a big difference.
 

Inigo Montoya

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Just goes to show how little impact a manager has on a teams performances. We now have two teams that look totally changed after the introduction of a single player(Bruno, ESR).
You're putting a heap of pressure on Smith-Rowe there. Bruno had a couple of good seasons for Porto ;one where he scored 20 in 33 and the other 8 in 17. He really was impacting games for a while. ESR has had a couple of good games but blimey give the kid time to develop.
 

Davie Moyes

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Just goes to show how little impact a manager has on a teams performances. We now have two teams that look totally changed after the introduction of a single player(Bruno, ESR).
I think it is more to do with how much confidence plays such a big part. That win against Chelsea was important.
 

ThatsGreat

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You're putting a heap of pressure on Smith-Rowe there. Bruno had a couple of good seasons for Porto ;one where he scored 20 in 33 and the other 8 in 17. He really was impacting games for a while. ESR has had a couple of good games but blimey give the kid time to develop.
Yeah, I'm not saying ESR is bruno's level, far from it. Its just that we needed a player of his profile to occupy the offensive half spaces, make a couple of runs, play 1-2s something that Ozil used to do for us earlier and its taken the team up a level. Doesn't even have to be the best player, just a player that checks the boxes in the offensive sense makes a world of difference to the team.
I think it is more to do with how much confidence plays such a big part. That win against Chelsea was important.
Where did we get the confidence to beat Chelsea then? We were on our worst run in 30 years or something. Drop willian, play ESR and move Saka to the right and we're a different team.
 

GifLord

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Yeah, I'm not saying ESR is bruno's level, far from it. Its just that we needed a player of his profile to occupy the offensive half spaces, make a couple of runs, play 1-2s something that Ozil used to do for us earlier and its taken the team up a level. Doesn't even have to be the best player, just a player that checks the boxes in the offensive sense makes a world of difference to the team.

Where did we get the confidence to beat Chelsea then? We were on our worst run in 30 years or something. Drop willian, play ESR and move Saka to the right and we're a different team.
I doubt it was confidence
2 goals from set pieces- a pen, a free kick from fecking Xhaka of all people and a fluke cross goal?
That game was pure luck when everybody was expecting you to lose and then you go and win it - Chelsea probably also severely underestimated you considering you were such a shit show at the time.
8 out of 10 times Chelsea beat you with ease
 

Inigo Montoya

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Yeah, I'm not saying ESR is bruno's level, far from it. Its just that we needed a player of his profile to occupy the offensive half spaces, make a couple of runs, play 1-2s something that Ozil used to do for us earlier and its taken the team up a level. Doesn't even have to be the best player, just a player that checks the boxes in the offensive sense makes a world of difference to the team.

Where did we get the confidence to beat Chelsea then? We were on our worst run in 30 years or something. Drop willian, play ESR and move Saka to the right and we're a different team.
It's clear, the policy to integrate younger players can pay dividends in the long run. Still don't see why Xhaka gets so much love from Arteta though...absolute shite player and a liability.
 

GoonerBear

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It's clear, the policy to integrate younger players can pay dividends in the long run. Still don't see why Xhaka gets so much love from Arteta though...absolute shite player and a liability.
It's what I called for him to do in the Arteta thread a few weeks back. I said at the time it would be the only way he could save his job, but I said if he did that I would still back him & I kinda got a bit ridiculed for it.

Given our financial situation, given the make up of the squad & the circumstances around it, if you can get a group of youngsters together that help make up a squad, & 2 or 3 of them to be important first team players, in the long run it's very beneficial to a squad rebuild, even if results wise sometimes it might take 1 step back to take 2 forward, but if the fans see a proper project they will allow you that time.
 

Inigo Montoya

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It's what I called for him to do in the Arteta thread a few weeks back. I said at the time it would be the only way he could save his job, but I said if he did that I would still back him & I kinda got a bit ridiculed for it.

Given our financial situation, given the make up of the squad & the circumstances around it, if you can get a group of youngsters together that help make up a squad, & 2 or 3 of them to be important first team players, in the long run it's very beneficial to a squad rebuild, even if results wise sometimes it might take 1 step back to take 2 forward, but if the fans see a proper project they will allow you that time.
Spot on
 

GoonerBear

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I've also mentioned on the other thread, that him & Edu if they are shrewd, they have a unique opportunity to do this, & do a 'squad reset' in the summer, get rid of the bloat, the overpaid players, work with a younger, tighter hungrier squad.

The squad is prime for it. Luiz, Mustafi, Ozil, Sokratis all out of contract, Kolasinac, Torriera, Guendouzi, all but out the door, decisions to be made on the likes of Lacazette, Chambers who have 1 year left. Build around Gabriel, Tierney, Saliba, Saka, Partey, Smith-Rowe, Martinelli, Nelson.
 

ThatsGreat

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I doubt it was confidence
2 goals from set pieces- a pen, a free kick from fecking Xhaka of all people and a fluke cross goal?
That game was pure luck when everybody was expecting you to lose and then you go and win it - Chelsea probably also severely underestimated you considering you were such a shit show at the time.
8 out of 10 times Chelsea beat you with ease
I'm not saying it was confidence. I'm saying that the addition of Esr and moving Saka to the right raised us up a level. If it was pure luck Arsenal would immediately have reverted to their previous level next match. We're actually seeing some patterns in the final third instead of aimlessly passing the ball around.
 

AshRK

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I'm not saying it was confidence. I'm saying that the addition of Esr and moving Saka to the right raised us up a level. If it was pure luck Arsenal would immediately have reverted to their previous level next match. We're actually seeing some patterns in the final third instead of aimlessly passing the ball around.
I wouldn't pretend that I watched all the minutes of arsenal in europa this season but whenever or whatever I watched. EMILE smith rowe looked amazing and that always makes me wonder why it took arteta 2 months to play him. Arteta is very fortunate that arsenal board did not sack him but him constantly playing the same players was a sackable offense and now having seen how the youth is bailing him out, it looks even more absurd that it took him this long to play them.
 

GifLord

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I'm not saying it was confidence. I'm saying that the addition of Esr and moving Saka to the right raised us up a level. If it was pure luck Arsenal would immediately have reverted to their previous level next match. We're actually seeing some patterns in the final third instead of aimlessly passing the ball around.
I mean you barely beat Brighton's B team not to mention they were the better side in the 1st half.
 

GoonerBear

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I would really like to know what has happened with him at Colney in the last months.

Official line is Arteta doesn't think he's quite ready. Would have loaned him out for another season if the paperwork hadn't been mucked up on deadline day.

Some French reports say Arteta just doesn't fancy him. However, Arteta has said he still has a big future, & Edu backed that up with his words about the loan move.

We'll see in the summer who is telling the truth. With Luiz, Mustafi, Kolasinac, Sokratis & perhaps Chambers leaving, an overload of centre backs shouldn't be an excuse.
 

Sea-Cow

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I'll give him a chance but it was more people overrating him than anything else. As if he's cemented as a top CM when to me he's looked alright and has it all to do.
He didn't break a sweat against our 80 and 50 million pound center mids. If that's how he is after one or two games I hate to imagine how good he will be when fit and on form.
 

TheReligion

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He didn't break a sweat against our 80 and 50 million pound center mids. If that's how he is after one or two games I hate to imagine how good he will be when fit and on form.
That's a very naive way of looking at it.

He was strolling around when Spurs did them over and then cost them a goal by taking himself off when the ball was in play.

The £15m Holjberg was laughing.
 

Cascarino

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I'll give him a chance but it was more people overrating him than anything else. As if he's cemented as a top CM when to me he's looked alright and has it all to do.
He has been playing for Atlético Madrid for years to be fair, he’s not an unproven youngster.
 

Nish115

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That's a very naive way of looking at it.

He was strolling around when Spurs did them over and then cost them a goal by taking himself off when the ball was in play.

The £15m Holjberg was laughing.
So ignore the game where he was fit (and call it naive..), but then take the game where he was coming back from injury and was clearly injured in it as an example??

Anyway i'm sure Partey will prove his worth, there's a reason Atletico fans were gutted when he left.

But we still need at least 2 starting midfield options. Guendouzi is doing very well but think his time here is over.
 

TheReligion

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So ignore the game where he was fit (and call it naive..), but then take the game where he was coming back from injury and was clearly injured in it as an example??

Anyway i'm sure Partey will prove his worth, there's a reason Atletico fans were gutted when he left.

But we still need at least 2 starting midfield options. Guendouzi is doing very well but think his time here is over.
The point is it's too early in his PL career to start saying he's great and would make a best XI. I'm sure you'll agree?
 

Nish115

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The point is it's too early in his PL career to start saying he's great and would make a best XI. I'm sure you'll agree?
Yh I wouldn't be putting him in any best XIs yet, agreed. But, I think he's a great player. To me you don't need to have prem experience to be called a great player. He's done it on all stages, and at a great level. Spurs game aside he's been on another level when he's played for us too (small sample I know).
 

Powderfinger

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I wouldn't pretend that I watched all the minutes of arsenal in europa this season but whenever or whatever I watched. EMILE smith rowe looked amazing and that always makes me wonder why it took arteta 2 months to play him. Arteta is very fortunate that arsenal board did not sack him but him constantly playing the same players was a sackable offense and now having seen how the youth is bailing him out, it looks even more absurd that it took him this long to play them.
He was injured in pre-season, only got back into training in mid October, then needed time to regain match sharpness after coming back into the first team setup. This is also a player that had all of two Premier League matches under his belt before this year and with a history of injury, so its understandable that he played Europa League at first when breaking back into the team and he was never going to be playing twice a week in that period. Arteta could have integrated him a bit more quickly (and I called for him to do that) but realistically he might have started like a couple league matches earlier, he was never going to be in the team in November.

Arteta was maybe a little slow to integrate Smith-Rowe but he integrated Martinelli back into the starting lineup as fast as he possibly could, has played Saka at every opportunity, was starting to give chances to Reiss Nelson before he got hurt, and has also given chances to Joe Willock. That is five largely unproven 21 and under attacking midfielders or wingers getting various levels of league minutes. I don't think Arteta can be really faulted for not trying to get the youth involved. His biggest mistake was exiling Ozil without replacing him and then relying on Willian, who has been awful. He did end up constantly playing the same underperforming guys for a period but its largely because he had no choice due to his own poor squad management decisions over the summer.
 
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Sean_RedDevil

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Official line is Arteta doesn't think he's quite ready. Would have loaned him out for another season if the paperwork hadn't been mucked up on deadline day.

Some French reports say Arteta just doesn't fancy him. However, Arteta has said he still has a big future, & Edu backed that up with his words about the loan move.

We'll see in the summer who is telling the truth. With Luiz, Mustafi, Kolasinac, Sokratis & perhaps Chambers leaving, an overload of centre backs shouldn't be an excuse.
Of course everything is possible in football but that Saliba wasn't even registered for the Europa League and now he is already in the squad for Nice tomorrow is not a good sign for his future at Arsenal.
 

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Of course everything is possible in football but that Saliba wasn't even registered for the Europa League and now he is already in the squad for Nice tomorrow is not a good sign for his future at Arsenal.
This is what Edu said.


"William Saliba is a player with a huge amount of talent and potential," he said.

"We’re confident he will have a great career with us but we must remember that he is still only 19 years old and has a lot of time ahead of him.

"William experienced a very challenging time last year, with his playing time limited by injury and the early ending of the Ligue 1 season due to the pandemic.

"So together with William, we have decided that spending the rest of the season on loan with Nice is the best way for him to develop."
 

Sean_RedDevil

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This is what Edu said.


"William Saliba is a player with a huge amount of talent and potential," he said.

"We’re confident he will have a great career with us but we must remember that he is still only 19 years old and has a lot of time ahead of him.

"William experienced a very challenging time last year, with his playing time limited by injury and the early ending of the Ligue 1 season due to the pandemic.

"So together with William, we have decided that spending the rest of the season on loan with Nice is the best way for him to develop."
Of course he must say something like this.
 

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Of course he has no future at Arsenal. Wonder what % of those £12m in add-ons would have to be paid if Saliba made his first-team debut? Because let's be honest, he can't be worse than Mustafi or Holding.
 

GoonerBear

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He was not even in the Europa League squad for Rapid, Molde and Dundalk.
That doesn't mean he doesnt have a future at Arsenal. It meant we were overloaded at centre back and as the youngest he missed out. In the summer Luiz, Mustafi, Kolasinac, Sokratis & likely Chambers & Mavropanos won't be there. We will be clearing the decks. There's will be much more space for him, & he'll be another 6 months on in his development.

Why does Edu need to say he has a big future & they see him having a great career at Arsenal? He could still say positive things without mentioning Arsenal specifically.

Ach, anyway, you might be right. Only way we'll see is in the future, no point debating it now.
 
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GoonerBear

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Arteta talking about Saliba.

Mikel Arteta says that William Saliba’s loan to Nice will be a “crucial” step in protecting his long-term future with us.

The centre back moved to the French club earlier this week, and made his debut on Wednesday as they faced Brest in Ligue 1.

Arteta will be keeping a close eye on Saliba and says the temporary move suits all parties.

“We signed a big project that we had some issues with because he’s not played enough football over the past 18 months and at that age, and in the development phase he is at, that is crucial,” our manager said.

“I was always very conscious when he came back, when he didn’t do the step that he had to before joining us, that to start a relationship with a new manager, a new club, new team-mates where he is not having any game-time is really difficult and I think it is damaging for the future.

“I want to protect the player that we signed and the future we have alongside him and the best way to do that is to give him minutes to play. He has been really good, it has been a difficult few months for him to cope with that situation but I see the development that he has made, the progression that he has shown over the months and now he is ready to compete.

“He is going to a really strong league as well, a league he knows really well, he has experience [there] and he needs to play as many games as possible to be ready for us from next season.

“He will come back for pre-season and he will be with us, and hopefully he will come back after playing a number of games and [with] his performances raising and his development progressing in the right way. That is why we made that decision.

“I know that sometimes it is difficult to explain or understand after the money the club spent bringing him in, sending him on loan, but a lot of things have happened to him, he is a long-term player for us and we need to protect him as well. Giving him three or four games is not enough for him, he needs much more than that but what has happened over the past 18 months, he has gone through some personal problems as well that we have to try to help him, and stay as close as possible to him, and now he needs to play, play and play and enjoy his profession as well.

“In order for him to do that I think we have found the right club with him, he is very happy to go there right now and hopefully he can enjoy his football and be ready for us next season.”