Arsenal 2023/24 - Born to be runner up

[JagUTD]

The famous Arsenal bottling factory is currently on downtime but let there be no doubt at all, that production will be ramped up in good time.

It is our duty to build them up for now. To make the inevitable fall as painful as possible.

 

[Jordan_mufc]

Rice was outstanding today. We were the better and in control side in almost all periods of play. Lots to be happy about. Scrapped a win in the end, but who gives a flying feck about that.

For some reason, every time Arsenal have a close, scrappy game, their fans come out with this. You were not the better side, nor did you control almost all periods of play.

You and City were equally poor but you got the win in the end which is all that matters

 

[Oranges038]

1 hand on the trophy.

The other hand is reaching out for the bottle.

 

[Donaldo]

For some reason, every time Arsenal have a close, scrappy game, their fans come out with this. You were not the better side, nor did you control almost all periods of play.

You and City were equally poor but you got the win in the end which is all that matters

Arteta and Pep having a wankoff on possession play is down to them. I'm happy the players showed the character and ability to take us through to a vital three points for a top 4 place.

 

[Zagoon]

The famous Arsenal bottling factory is currently on downtime but let there be no doubt at all, that production will be ramped up in good time.

It is our duty to build them up for now. To make the inevitable fall as painful as possible.

In the meantime, thanks for keeping production going over at Old Trafford.

The football world is grateful to Man United and their world class bottling operation.

 

[Tyrion]

The famous Arsenal bottling factory is currently on downtime but let there be no doubt at all, that production will be ramped up in good time.

It is our duty to build them up for now. To make the inevitable fall as painful as possible.

I remember a chart getting posted here every year that showed Arsenals hype over the course of a season going up and down and then up again once they were out of the title race. It was good fun

For some reason, every time Arsenal have a close, scrappy game, their fans come out with this. You were not the better side, nor did you control almost all periods of play.

You and City were equally poor but you got the win in the end which is all that matters

City had slightly more passes, slightly more possession and slightly less fouls but 1 shot on target to 2 and a third of the shots. Seems pretty even then.

In the meantime, thanks for keeping production going over at Old Trafford.

The football world is grateful to Man United and their world class bottling operation.

I dont think some fans understand what bottling even means. Uniteds team isn't bottling, they're just shite.

 

[Fridge chutney]

Oh no, the United fan is going to be so disappointed you said that

This is turning into such a strange thread

 

[NoPace]

That was an awful game of football between two so called entertaining side.

I think it was just two managers who coach the same way - playing fairly similar formations (Arsenal's wingers were wider than City's until Doku came on and Zinchenko came inside more than Gvardiol or Walker but otherwise the same) - making it a crummy game.

Good result and some good signs for Arsenal, in that they didn't blow the game and they defended very well (they didn't let Jorginho get isolated more than once, which was an obvious route to them losing) after Raya got over his initial hiccups, and it's easy to see how they could improve their first XI by signing a #9 who's more of a problem than Nketiah, who I think is just a guy. They could use a Giroud or Sheringham type for games where a physical presence and some creativity and ability against a deep-lying defence would be useful. I guess that might be Toney, though I have no idea how he'd do in that role because I didn't watch Brentford in the Champo.

Terrible game to watch.

 

[GoonerGirly]

Couldn't wake up for the game but caught the second half. Was a dull game, think neither side wanted to lose and would have happily taken the draw.

Very pleased with the result of course. We just needed to beat them and am impressed that we limited their chances very well. They barely got a sniff in that second half and Haaland barely touched the ball. Jorginho was our potential weak link in defence/MF and we did not allow him to get isolated too often. There was of course good fortune in our goal but it was a great pass from Raya and good work from Tomi and Havertz to get the ball to Martinelli. Think it's fair to say Arteta got his subs spot on.

 

[FeedTheGoat]

It doesnt matter how we looked tonight. What matters is we stopped you dead in your tracks tonight with our defensive organisation.

Where was Haaland?

Last season we looked pleasing on the eye, but we couldnt manage your threat as completely as we did today. And keeping teams away from goal is what really matters when you look at what it takes in a title race.

From an attacking fluidity point of view there will be questions asked of Arsenal. But Arsenal can always improve their attack, its what we do, whether internally or in the market.

But its all good... if you think Arsenal arent good enough. Just be objective as to why, and dont give me emotions.

Yeah, you will fall short this year as well

 

[Powderfinger]

It was a dull game if you’re watching in a pub and looking for chances, goals, and big moments. It was a fascinating game if you’re looking at the game on a tactical level - maybe the two best organized and tactically versatile sides in the world sparring for 90 minutes looking for openings, matching each other all over the pitch. You don’t see many matches like this with City involved, it’s always them dominating, maybe another team playing desperate defensive football and picking them off, and occasionally them sleeping through one.

I would bet Pep thought this was one of the most interesting (and perhaps frustrating) matches he has managed in years.

 

[GoonerGirly]

It was a dull game if you’re watching in a pub and looking for chances, goals, and big moments. It was a fascinating game if you’re looking at the game on a tactical level - maybe the two best organized and tactically versatile sides in the world sparring for 90 minutes looking for openings, matching each other all over the pitch. You don’t see many matches like this with City involved, it’s always them dominating, maybe another team playing desperate defensive football and picking them off, and occasionally them sleeping through one.

I would bet Pep thought this was one of the most interesting (and perhaps frustrating) matches he has managed in years.

Yep from a defensive and organisation standpoint this was brilliant from us. Considering City usually carve us open and score at will, this was a much more mature and controlled performance. They had 1 shot on target, 2 shots off target and 1 blocked shot. Haaland didn't have a shot - when does that happen? And we did this without (starting) Partey, Martinelli and Saka.

 

[NoPace]

For some reason, every time Arsenal have a close, scrappy game, their fans come out with this. You were not the better side, nor did you control almost all periods of play.

You and City were equally poor but you got the win in the end which is all that matters

It was a classic 0-0 game with a lucky deflection, but nullifying Haaland completely is impressive. He didn't even look close to getting the service to do anything. If you do that to other team's strikers' every game you'd win the league regardless of what else happens, like a good Conte or Mourinho side.

But yeah, nobody controlled play except the defences. Game could have used De Bruyne since he hates defending and creates a ton and adds some anarchy.

 

[Tyrion]

It was a classic 0-0 game with a lucky deflection, but nullifying Haaland completely is impressive. He didn't even look close to getting the service to do anything. If you do that to other team's strikers' every game you'd win the league regardless of what else happens, like a good Conte or Mourinho side.

But yeah, nobody controlled play except the defences. Game could have used De Bruyne since he hates defending and creates a ton and adds some anarchy.

That's why I think KdB is better than Haaland. Haaland will get all the individual awards because people just look at goals but I think Haaland can be anonymous in some games if he doesn't get service while KdB can drag the whole team up a level.

 

[Nicolarra90]

Haha what? The treble is a huge achievement and would have been treated as such by people if City weren't cheaters.

There have only been 10 trebles ever in Europe (league, big European competition and cup). Twice in England, Spain, Germany and Netherlands and once in Scotland and Italy.

It's been done 6 times in the last 15 years. That's over 1/3 of the years.

Still a huge achievement of course, but hardly something as unique as it used to be.

 

[Tyrion]

It's been done 6 times in the last 15 years. That's over 1/3 of the years.

Still a huge achievement of course, but hardly something as unique as it used to be.

It's definitely become more common as football becomes more unequal. Barca have done it twice in the last 15 years, same with Bayern and Inter. I don't think any of the top 4 leagues had the treble before the 90s.

That said, you could say the same about our treble win too. Obviously footballs less equal now than in 1999 but maybe 1999 was less competitive than it was in the 60s or 70s.

 

[GoonerBear]

Yeah, you will fall short this year as well

Im not sure bout your assessment of us dropping out of top 4, but i don’t see us winning the league either, not playing the way we are currently.

I want to see how we play with an Rice / Partey / Odegaard midfield in combination with a Martinelli / Jesus / Saka forward line. That could potentially be a proper league challenging front 6. My main concern is if we have to rely on Havertz or Nkeitah for significant spells of the season.

We’ve had an ok start, we’ve played Utd, Spurs and City already in our opening games but all at home which has helped us.

Our next batch of games before the November international break has us playing both Chelsea and Newcastle away, with games vs Sevilla in the Champions League and away to West Ham in the league cup thrown in there as well. I want to see how we perform in those testing games.

 

[The White Pele]

I only watched the first half yesterday but I thought both teams looked a shadow of the teams they were last season.

At the moment the race looks very open and if we had kicked on from last season then we’d probably consider ourselves firm contenders.

As it is, I think it’s set up to be pretty close between City, Arsenal and Liverpool this season.

Liverpool might concede a few too many goals. I think Arsenal’s chances are dependent on having Saliba, Gabriel, Rice, Odegaard and Saka on the pitch as much as possible. Likewise City very dependent on Rodri as we have seen the last few weeks. Haaland, despite his numbers last season, is not so good that he will them games on his own.

 

[DWelbz19]

Saliba and Rice give me VVD and Fabinho energy during Liverpool's good period. As long as Saka's legs haven't fallen off from all the games played, I think they'll continue to hobble into wins.

 

[SilentWitness]

Arsenal have grown mentally quite a lot from 2-3 years ago and that got them over the line yesterday despite luck also playing a part. If the Raya mistake ended with a goal it could have been different but it also could have been different if Kovacic was sent off. 0-0 was a fair result until that point but Arsenal had that slice of luck, along with the mental capacity to remain calm and composed until that stage, to win the game.

The question though, as with last season, is what happens when luck in games leaves you and the pressure cranks up. They bottled it last season and they may well do the same again this season. I do think Rice has elevated that mental level though and you'd think other players such as Saliba, Saka etc. will have grown from it.

 

[Idxomer]

Let's hope they can finish the job this time against a weaker City.

 

[Pav1878]

Undecided who I want to win the league if it isn’t us.

spurs would be my first choice.

can’t be having another city win but if arsenal win that’s yet another team we have to overtake to win the title again. And they are closer to us in number of titles.

anyone but Liverpool obviously!!

This super cringe song Arsenal now sing at the start of each game makes me lean Towards City tho! It’s bloody awful, and so contrived.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

spurs would be my first choice.

If not us, Spurs would be fine. Ange seems like a decent character, and there would be something slightly funny about them winning the top prize the season Kane leaves.

 

[FootballHQ]

Arsenal will finish 10 points clear of Spurs.

Spurs doing fine but they don't have the depth in the key areas. Maddison already huge so if he picks up an injury like he did at Leicester that would be a big void for them.

Richarlison as CF in tighter games also going to be an issue given he just misses too many simple chances.

 

[Pav1878]

If not us, Spurs would be fine. Ange seems like a decent character, and there would be something slightly funny about them winning the top prize the season Kane leaves.

This is true!

 

[tomaldinho1]

This more proves how important 2 players are for City, their entire style of play is Rodri dependent to be done at the highest level and then KDB is probably the best all round midfielder in the world. Take them out of the team and suddenly City look just as flawed as the rest of the chasing pack. Anyone thinking Spurs even have a chance at the title is mad.

 

[RedPed]

Started already...all this title talk. Doesn't take much for an Arsenal fan to get giddy and ahead of themselves. We've beaten City more times than any other PL team in recent years so this really doesn't signify anything major.

 

[Captmfla]

When it mattered last season, all Arsenal could do was take a loss of 4-1 against City.

This match was just Man City being complacent and providing opportunities for other teams to catch up. If they were playing real, there's not much of a chance for Arsenal really.

 

[garelo]

Just win the league this season you feckin bottlers! i cant stand the sight of citeh winning it 4 times in a row!

 

[ZainCRse7en]

Watching Saka and Martinelli on the wings reminds me of those electric liverpool wingers back then in Mane and Prime Salah. They still lack a world class striker though. Jesus is a diving rat and Nketiah is nowhere near good enough. Dont even get me started on Havertz. I'll be worried once they start bringing in a proper number 9 like the rumoured Ivan Toney.

 

[Zagoon]

The Arsenal vs City game was an absolute masterclass, particularly for a team's structure when out of possession.

The one big difference here is that both teams were able to almost completely shut the other down, while also playing a high line at the same time.

Where do you see that in football nowadays? A situation where an elite transition and tight space forward like Haaland, is nullified completely, with space to run into?

City are still the clear favourites to win the title, they are just a superb team who can play with their best players out. Arsenal are behind, and could challenge City if City slip more, and Arsenal are able to keep up the pace.

The best two teams in the Premier League right now.

 

[ThierryHenry14]

The Arsenal vs City game was an absolute masterclass, particularly for a team's structure when out of possession.

The one big difference here is that both teams were able to almost completely shut the other down, while also playing a high line at the same time.

Where do you see that in football nowadays? A situation where an elite transition and tight space forward like Haaland, is nullified completely, with space to run into?

City are still the clear favourites to win the title, they are just a superb team who can play with their best players out. Arsenal are behind, and could challenge City if City slip more, and Arsenal are able to keep up the pace.

The best two teams in the Premier League right now.

I am not sure if Arsenal is better than Liverpool or Spurs this season. It is still way too early to tell. I will say Arsenal has more depth in the squad than last season and that is it.

 

[Zagoon]

The team has more squad depth than

I am not sure if Arsenal is better than Liverpool or Spurs this season. It is still way too early to tell. I will say Arsenal has more depth in the squad than last season and that is it.

Im pretty sure Arsenal are superior to both Liverpool and Spurs this season, already. Arsenal just look more complete a side, and they arent even back to 22/23 attacking levels yet.

And its also why I rate City so highly. They are basically what Arsenal are trying to achieve out of possession, with the high quality, incisive attack on top of that. Their balance between those two phases is excellent.

The question I would ask of Arsenal is how much of 22/23's creativity and incisiveness do they bring back into the team's attacking play. Particularly with a changed focus to be more controlling and conservative in their approach. This question should be answered in the coming weeks, with Arsenal now having a chance to field its best midfield with the return of Partey. (Rice-Partey-Odegaard).

This is no insult to Liverpool and Spurs, they are both wonderful attack minded teams, who will make the top 5 this year, along with Newcastle. But as we have seen with Newcastle (who are even more attacking that Liverpool and Spurs), you cannot just be an attacking outfit if you want to be consistently getting results across a league season.

 

[Bilbo]

The Arsenal vs City game was an absolute masterclass, particularly for a team's structure when out of possession.

Or, in the real world, it was an incredibly dull football match between two teams who quite frankly didn't turn up. Key players missing on both sides, and for some reason it had the intensity and atmosphere of an exhibition match.

Quite a bizarre watch in all honesty

 

[Zagoon]

Or, in the real world, it was an incredibly dull football match between two teams who quite frankly didn't turn up. Key players missing on both sides, and for some reason it had the intensity and atmosphere of an exhibition match.

Quite a bizarre watch in all honesty

Yeah I do understand the boring nature of the game for those who watch football for pure entertainment. Chaos or basketball as Arteta likes to say, is what makes the game so fun.

But that's what happens when two teams cancel each other out tactically. If you are into the more technical and tactical aspects of football, then such games become very interesting to watch and unpack afterward.

And both these teams absolutely did turn up. An example of this was that the mistakes were almost non existent. And the level of concentration needed for that, against such good opposition is really really difficult.

 

[Bilbo]

Yeah I do understand the boring nature of the game for those who watch football for pure entertainment. Chaos or basketball as Arteta likes to say, is what makes the game so fun.

But that's what happens when two teams cancel each other out tactically. If you are into the more technical and tactical aspects of football, then such games become very interesting to watch and unpack afterward.

And both these teams absolutely did turn up. An example of this was that the mistakes were almost non existent. And the level of concentration needed for that, against such good opposition is really really difficult.

I think I saw more mistakes from City in that match than I've seen in 20 other games combined in the last few seasons.

I realise that its tempting to see that as some sort of step forward for Arsenal. Maybe, mentally, it could remove some psychological hurdle and become just that, but tactical, no. Technical, no. If either team had been anywhere close to their best it would have been 3 or 4 nil either way.

The whole occasion was flat. Apart from the fact that someone won it, it was a complete waste of time.

 

[WeePat]

People always say it’s ‘tactical battle’ ‘masterclass of elite coaching’ when two big teams play out a dour dull piss poor game of football. No one would call Palace v Forest 0-0 an excellent, utterly engrossing tactical battle, so why do we do this when two big clubs serve up a low quality sleep inducing shit fest of a game?

 

[GoonerGirly]

I think I saw more mistakes from City in that match than I've seen in 20 other games combined in the last few seasons.

I realise that its tempting to see that as some sort of step forward for Arsenal. Maybe, mentally, it could remove some psychological hurdle and become just that, but tactical, no. Technical, no. If either team had been anywhere close to their best it would have been 3 or 4 nil either way.

The whole occasion was flat. Apart from the fact that someone won it, it was a complete waste of time.

People always say it’s ‘tactical battle’ ‘masterclass of elite coaching’ when two big teams play out a dour dull piss poor game of football. No one would call Palace v Forest 0-0 an excellent, utterly engrossing tactical battle, so why do we do this when two big clubs serve up a low quality sleep inducing shit fest of a game?

I agree that it was a dull watch, especially for neutrals. I think the reason this makes it more of a "tactical battle" than just a shit game, is of the head to head history. Arsenal's embarrassing 12 straight losses in the league vs City, going back to 2015. Last season, when we led the league for so long and were expected to get something out of our games vs them, they spanked us. Why? Because we tried to go toe to toe with them and play our football. We pressed them and got exposed. Very naive. I don't think we had the squad depth or tactical flexibility to play any other way last season, which is why we ultimately fell short of the title.

Undoubtedly, Arteta had to adjust for this game and looks to have learned from the past. We didn't press as much and sat back, picked our moments when to push. But while it was boring on the ball, off the ball it was an interesting battle. I heard some punditry that this was the fewest chances/shots City had since Pep's arrival, not sure how true that is. I never would have thought that it would be against Arsenal, considering they usually blast several past us. A more specific example of the tactical battle is Raya - after the match Arteta was asked about Raya's mistake in almost getting caught out by Alvarez in the first half. Arteta defended him and said he's asked to play like that and they know the potential risk, especially against the best press in the world. He said he wants the GK to take more time, look up and pick a pass, not just hoof the ball away. The reason is because if Raya just hoofs it long, City will just get the ball back and eventually break you down. We'd just be defending wave after wave of attack and eventually concede. But once we scored, Raya started to hoof it long more. We stopped taking that risk of inviting their press.

 

[Bilbo]

I agree that it was a dull watch, especially for neutrals. I think the reason this makes it more of a "tactical battle" than just a shit game, is of the head to head history. Arsenal's embarrassing 12 straight losses in the league vs City, going back to 2015. Last season, when we led the league for so long and were expected to get something out of our games vs them, they spanked us. Why? Because we tried to go toe to toe with them and play our football. We pressed them and got exposed. Very naive. I don't think we had the squad depth or tactical flexibility to play any other way last season, which is why we ultimately fell short of the title.

Undoubtedly, Arteta had to adjust for this game and looks to have learned from the past. We didn't press as much and sat back, picked our moments when to push. But while it was boring on the ball, off the ball it was an interesting battle. I heard some punditry that this was the fewest chances/shots City had since Pep's arrival, not sure how true that is. I never would have thought that it would be against Arsenal, considering they usually blast several past us. A more specific example of the tactical battle is Raya - after the match Arteta was asked about Raya's mistake in almost getting caught out by Alvarez in the first half. Arteta defended him and said he's asked to play like that and they know the potential risk, especially against the best press in the world. He said he wants the GK to take more time, look up and pick a pass, not just hoof the ball away. The reason is because if Raya just hoofs it long, City will just get the ball back and eventually break you down. We'd just be defending wave after wave of attack and eventually concede. But once we scored, Raya started to hoof it long more. We stopped taking that risk of inviting their press.

Arsenal were that bad on Sunday that it could have been a trouncing if City hadn't had an awful day at the office. Same goes the other way. You were missing arguably your two most influential players, and so were City, and all we learned was how important those players are to either team.

It's like @WeePat Said above. People need to try to find conclusions to everything, and that turns a piss poor borefest into a tactical tour de force when it just wasn't. Honestly for me it solidified my feeling that Arsenal aren't as good as they were last year, and hopefully City aren't either - although I fully expect a gazillion game winning run from them at some point and another comfortable title.

 

[GoonerBear]

People always say it’s ‘tactical battle’ ‘masterclass of elite coaching’ when two big teams play out a dour dull piss poor game of football. No one would call Palace v Forest 0-0 an excellent, utterly engrossing tactical battle, so why do we do this when two big clubs serve up a low quality sleep inducing shit fest of a game?

Is that the same way we were subjected to lots of Mourinho Masterclasses over the years?