Good point with summer targets too. Had forgot about that.
Arsenal 22/23 - go to new thread
- Thread starter horsechoker
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I've been hearing myself say that for some time mate.
Adding Jorginho's experience and bit of quality is a good transfer, I think.
Obviously you could argue 12m is still a lot to pay for a short-term deal for him when he is out of contract in a few months, but when you're 5-8 points clear at the top of the table and trying to hold on some short-term focus is probably justified.
Obviously you could argue 12m is still a lot to pay for a short-term deal for him when he is out of contract in a few months, but when you're 5-8 points clear at the top of the table and trying to hold on some short-term focus is probably justified.
I think we're in that tricky phase after a few successful signings where getting players that move the needle becomes difficult. It happens to everyone. I'm sure even Brighton will struggle to source uncut gems the way they have been recently in the coming seasons. Clubs will start upping the price as soon as they see their scouts.
Assuming we secure Saka and Saliba to new contracts, there are no longer any gaping holes in our squad. I can envision us going big on one or two players in the summer. The major upside of Jorginho on an 18 month deal (with an option) is that it frees us up to do just that.
Actually, I wish we had made a similar stop gap signing last January for our forward line. We probably would have qualified for the CL.
Can't lie, I'm slightly underwhelmed with Jorginho after trying hard for Caceido, but had look on Arse Mania and it's full of whiny wee peckers moaning about how the optics look and taking Chelsea's cast offs.
Totally forgetting what the lad is being bought for, and that's El Neny's replacement because he's injured, who is hardly a world beater himself.
He's good enough for what we need him to do until the summer, and hopefully Chelsea will leave at least 1 big midfielder for the rest of us to fight over in the summer.
Totally forgetting what the lad is being bought for, and that's El Neny's replacement because he's injured, who is hardly a world beater himself.
He's good enough for what we need him to do until the summer, and hopefully Chelsea will leave at least 1 big midfielder for the rest of us to fight over in the summer.
In theory yes but he can also be a bit of a liability with his lack of pace and athleticism. We tended to get overrun in midfield pretty easily if his midfield partner wasn't constantly super close to him almost babysitting him. He's excellent at keeping the team ticking, keeping possession and he's good tactically and usually positions himself well hence his interception stats are so high. There are upsides and downsides to having Jorginho. I hope you get to see the downsides more than the upsides.
It is january window, so getting their prime targets in would always be a challenge, unless you want to massively overspend. 12 mil might have been a lot less, than what they would have to pay to Brighton for Caicedo as a premium to get him now. I think it would have been perfect for them, to get Jorginho on a 6 month +1 year optional, but don't think player would have been keen then.
I think potentially in some set ups he’d be an absolute disaster. When Arsenal are very high, Jorginho in that Partey pivot role would be the stuff of nightmares when it came to the defensive side of things. Imagine on the transition seeing Jorginho Romero zombie style stumbling and limping over trying to deal with the break. He’s a very intelligent player and he does well to minimise his weaknesses, but in that set up there’s very little he could do to not be a disaster in that part of the game.
It’s way too obvious of a problem so I’m sure Arteta and the coaching staff have a firm grasp of where and who with when it comes to putting him in the team. He offers plenty as well, really tidy player on the ball and there’ll be plenty of occasions where he’ll add value. As GB pointed out he’s really a replacement for El Neny. Good signing on the whole.
It’s way too obvious of a problem so I’m sure Arteta and the coaching staff have a firm grasp of where and who with when it comes to putting him in the team. He offers plenty as well, really tidy player on the ball and there’ll be plenty of occasions where he’ll add value. As GB pointed out he’s really a replacement for El Neny. Good signing on the whole.
Arteta needs a cover for Partey. Attempted to sign long term solution Caceido and Martin Zubimendi failed. So he and Edu needs to go for Jorginho as short term fix. It is not ideal but it is what it is. 12m for a 31 year old with 6 months left in contract is far from ideal.
Barcelona/Xavi is very interested in Zubimendi so the player himself probably prefers to stay in Spain.
The nature of modern football. Plenty of teams have significant signings not bona fide first team players.
Just look at Sancho. 70m signing and he is treated like a timid 19 year old who needs to be treated with kid gloves otherwise he might break.
Tottenham spent 60m on Richarlison who is not part of the first choice front three.
There is no way Arteta would have benched Xhaka for Caicedo, or Martinelli for Mudryk.
100%. would be the height of stupidity to take 2 of the main players out of a team with 50 points from 19 games.
long term might be different but we might still get Caciedo long term, and honestly I couldn’t care less about long term.Been 18 years since we won the title.
can’t argue with anything the club has done, to go from 5th to where we are now demands perfection in every decision made.
Very strange thing to say and totally irrelevant to this.
Seems like an excuse to take a shot at a player who is widely reported to be struggling with their mental health. Not sure why you’d do that.
We shouldn't have been. Given the figures that were being thrown around, I'm happy that we didn't sign either player.
Other people have pointed it out as well, but Trossard was not a panic buy, he's in the middle of the wheelhouse for Arsenal. He his quality, position, price, club pedigree, playing system, EPL experience everything about him fits the Arsenal profile to a T. Except age, where he's not even that old, and the fact the squad in general is young enough to the point where we can afford one guy who's 28.
Trossard is also a short term fix, after Edu failed to bring in his number 1 target. It is what it is and no need to sugarcoat it.
Arsenal fans on here (the forum not this thread) we moaning yesterday about jorginho.
Tif i r l compares jorginho pizza chart with partey, caicedo and rice.
Tif i r l compares jorginho pizza chart with partey, caicedo and rice.
That could be. For myself at least, and considering the money Shakhtar wanted, I would much rather have Trossard. And again just me, but I was sort of anticipating/hoping for Trossard before Mudryk got so hot. I came around on Mudryk mostly becuase some people I really respect were very bullish on him, but in general that's market tier I'd just as soon stay out of. Most of players who end up moving from that tier end up being disappointments (and at least three of them are United players).
Think as club and a fanbase we are all still suffering from Pepe PTSD!
Agreed. Although I actually dont believe we should be getting into bidding wars or taking massive risks on expensive players. We have made smart signings and gone for players that are not the subject of bidding wars. Tomiyasu, Ramsdale, White, Odegaard last season; Jesus, Zinchenko, Trossard, Jorginho this season. Add to that calling back Saliba and activating the long term plan. The progression of the youngsters Saka, Martinelli, Smith-Rowe and now Nketiah. Clearing house of ego's and ushering in a new culture. Our pathway back has been under the radar. To the point most people are stunned by our current position. I am surprised too, but not as much as others. I actually had us to finish 3rd this season with at least 80 points where as most predicted us to come 6th and majority said we were the weakest of the top 6.
We dont need to take chances on players like Pepe or get into long and expensive bidding wars for players. Infact I would rather we didnt. I am more interest in keeping the core of this team together and looking for the clever signing when the arise. That doesnt mean it will be cheap. White wasnt cheap, Jesus wasnt cheap - but the moment and circumstances were right. With Mudryk, it never felt right. Pepe was another forced signing too.
I'm hoping Jorginho isn't going to be a mistake.
In his early years, Arteta tried to look at experience while managing a dysfunctional team. Hello krusty the clown, willian (both being similar Chelsea rejects), pablo and i've no idea who vetted runnarson. It's a reminder that not everything Arteta did was perfect and he made several mistakes in that formative period.
On paper, Jorginho makes sense, cos he has experience, can easily slot into the and he didn't cost an arm and a leg. I also think trossard is a good buy, considering he knows he needs to be competitive to compete with Martinelli, Saka and possibly odegaard. His versatility could also work if (i hope it doesn't happen) if something happens to Nketiah.
Though, i'm slightly concerned on the issue of addressing squad depth.
if there was a depth issue, why loan out Lokonga. Elneny is supposed to be back up to Partey (yeah not much of a backup.) So Jorg comes in for Elneny. We still needed sambi around in case anything happens to Xhaka. Zinc might work there as one more stop gap. But just makes it feel like the team is still light in the central area.
In his early years, Arteta tried to look at experience while managing a dysfunctional team. Hello krusty the clown, willian (both being similar Chelsea rejects), pablo and i've no idea who vetted runnarson. It's a reminder that not everything Arteta did was perfect and he made several mistakes in that formative period.
On paper, Jorginho makes sense, cos he has experience, can easily slot into the and he didn't cost an arm and a leg. I also think trossard is a good buy, considering he knows he needs to be competitive to compete with Martinelli, Saka and possibly odegaard. His versatility could also work if (i hope it doesn't happen) if something happens to Nketiah.
Though, i'm slightly concerned on the issue of addressing squad depth.
if there was a depth issue, why loan out Lokonga. Elneny is supposed to be back up to Partey (yeah not much of a backup.) So Jorg comes in for Elneny. We still needed sambi around in case anything happens to Xhaka. Zinc might work there as one more stop gap. But just makes it feel like the team is still light in the central area.
Fabio Vieira and ESR are better options than Lokonga.
Not omany other teams have a midfielder of Jorginho's qaulity on the bench.
Jorginho is better than Kalvin Phillips. So whilst we need to keep Partey fit, City need to keep Rodri fit.
I was saying to my mate an Arsenal fan that Saka will be watching whatever deal they give Martinelli and I predicted months ago that there is no chance he agrees to anything less than 200k a week. It's not a bad contract to be honest as Martinelli is integral to their success but it does set the bench mark for what Saliba and Saka's agents will be asking for in their negotiations.
Exactly.
It is just a bit higher than expected especially since he's the one who was the most vocal about staying at Arsenal. Saliba will probaly get the same and Saka 220/240.
It's the price to pay to keep them together and still reasonable compared to what we gave Ozil, Lacazette, Auba on a EL budget.
It's the price to pay to keep them together and still reasonable compared to what we gave Ozil, Lacazette, Auba on a EL budget.
Yeah, I was expecting £150k-£180k so this is at the top end of that.
I would also agree with your assumption that Saliba will get similar if he signs and Saka a bit more.
Give them the money.
This is the market rate for first team player in the top 6 EPL club, regardless of age. Players should get paid based on their performance on the pitch, not their age. Saka will get probably even more. Saliba I am not sure if he plans to stay.
This is his 3rd contract i think and this is the going rate for starting winger of a top 6 team actually. There were rumours that he was demanding 200k. I think 180k is fine, ideally should have been 150k-160k but he is performing and dont mind paying a bit extra.
Saliba should get around 150k based on this as defenders are paid less. Could be between 120k-150k actually. Saka will get one around 220k-260k if his agent is hell bent on getting parity with Jesus.
Odegaard Xhakha Ramsdale would be next in queue.
Might be but I don’t think he’s that good. Now every decent young player in the team will be demanding that.
If that decent young player is an undisputed starter in the current Arsenal team then probably yes. It doesn't matter it is a young player or senior player. There is a market rate for salary in a top 6 EPL club.
I'm inclined to think this new attitude to spending Arsenal has is prepared for that eventuality whilst still having a defined salary cap in place.
I would not describe him as just decent based on his last 12 months. To buy a player like him it would easily take 60m+ maybe even 80m+. Except for the Mudryk deal (if the reported numbers are true he should fire his agent) any player going for that rate will ask for close to 150k-200k if not more.
In his position in EPL i feels only Rashford has been ahead of him who is i think 5 year elder and has only 1 yr left on his contact and is already on higher wages (signed 4 years back) and god knows how much he will demand (surely 300k+ closer to 350k)
Martinelli is very underrated by some. He’s a superb player. If Antony is on 200k then Martinelli for 180 is a bargain
Just like Arteta, Martinelli or any players, they defend themselves by their work on the pitch, not by fans in the forum.
Some here would tell you Mudryk is better than Martinelli. I’ve not seen Martinelli play as bad as Mudryk did today for about 2 years. He’d have been firmly on the bench for us.
infact on this evidence I think Trossard is a
better deal.
Wonder why Arteta was so keen on Mudryk before he lost him?
Pound for pound or for the short (to medium) term Trossard was alway going to be a better signing