Yeah, Liverpool losing it in 18-19 sure devastated their players and fans.
Crom save us from cliches
ARSENAL OFFICIALLY BOTTLE IT! Arsenal fans now backtracking....2nd will be a great season for us! Surely that has to be seen as a failure??
- Thread starter RedPed
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Crom save us from cliches
What do you call it when you change managers and let them build their own team? People can call it whatever they want or deny it is what it is, but that is a project and it's been ongoing for years.
Prior to the start of the season I would have said that arsenal finishing 2nd was a huge success, but that's before watching them lead and dominate the league for 3/4 of the season just to shit the bed in April. And this was their year, City had a slow start, Liverpool and Chelsea are out in the weeds, we're just beginning our project and Tottenham are being more tottenhammy than usual.
That’s what I’m saying - pushing City in a title race is a great achievement, irrespective of whether they come up short. That is what they should celebrate rather than the mere fact of finishing second itself. There is finishing second in a tight race (Liverpool of recent years) and there is finishing second as best of the distant rest (United under Jose and Ole).
Why does it mean nothing? A dye in the wool manc from Manchester cannot be saying City being the PL top dogs and turning united into also rans is meaningless.
No way is finishing second a failure. They are in a title run that no one at Arsenal expected at the start of the season. It would be disappointing if they don't win it, but not definitely not a failure.
This season is an anomaly due to both Liverpool and Chelsea - both top 4 teams being absolute shit. The same as the year Leicester won it when Arsenal had the chance and also blew it.
Didn't they win the CL that year? They had a better team than Arsenal.
Because they have the finances of an entire nation. Not even a rich company, even then there would be some spending budgets. A nation will have near unlimitless budget, so that really lowers the impact of any successes they have, Imo. The Liverpool PL win, as much as I hated it, felt more earned to me than all the city PL wins combined.
With equal games played the lead was at most 5 points. Not a big lead, especially with Man City.
Not winning the title will be a huge disappointment but I don't see it as a failure. Not against this City squad. Arsenal have difficulty dealing with losing their starting CB. City have 4 starting quality CBs. Its not a level playing field.
It won’t be a failure for the season but I don’t think they’ll have anything left to build up on.
They don’t have the quality, it was momentum they had all season and this won’t go into next season.
They don’t have the quality, it was momentum they had all season and this won’t go into next season.
If they do win the treble (they wont), just remind them that we did it first, and they only won it cos arsenal spaffed it.
Pretty simple this.
At the start of the season 2nd would have been an unbelievable success
finishing 2nd with the positions they’ve been in in the last 2 games would be a failure. They could have the title wrapped up if they’d have won the last 2 games, instead they got over confident (like their fan base) and bottled it
At the start of the season 2nd would have been an unbelievable success
finishing 2nd with the positions they’ve been in in the last 2 games would be a failure. They could have the title wrapped up if they’d have won the last 2 games, instead they got over confident (like their fan base) and bottled it
They did, but if any loss could be considered psychologically damaging it would be the manner in which they lost the title that season. Kompany's winner and all that
And they defied armchair psychology predictions and went on to win the title in convincing fashion the following season
I'm not saying it's guaranteed Arsenal will challenge or win next season, I'm anti assuming losing the title will pose some sort of blow that'll cause them to spiral into midtable next season
No chance.
Their manager ended up being sacked 18 months later and it took a whole new rebuild under a different manager before they challenged again. I don't really think you could argue that 13/14 laid the foundation for the 18/19 league win, barely a player still in the squad.
We’ve backtracked ourselves a bit
In 10 years nobody remembers they lead 90% of the time and came second. Winners are remembered, not losers.
The salient facts are these:
- Arsenal sacrificed every competition they were in early doors to give them the best chance of winning the PL.
- At one point they were leading by 11 points.
- All this against a City side fighting on 3-4 fronts with fixture congestion up to the eyeballs, whilst they have a week’s rest in between fixtures.
- Their injury record has been extremely favourable, with Saka, Martinelli, Xhaka, Partey, Saliba etc fit for the majority of the season; which has allowed Lego Pep to play with very little rotation.
They won’t be in this position again for a long, long time and with being in the CL next season it will be much tougher.
So yes it will have been a massive bottle job if they don’t win it from here and overall another season to add to their list of trophyless seasons.
- Arsenal sacrificed every competition they were in early doors to give them the best chance of winning the PL.
- At one point they were leading by 11 points.
- All this against a City side fighting on 3-4 fronts with fixture congestion up to the eyeballs, whilst they have a week’s rest in between fixtures.
- Their injury record has been extremely favourable, with Saka, Martinelli, Xhaka, Partey, Saliba etc fit for the majority of the season; which has allowed Lego Pep to play with very little rotation.
They won’t be in this position again for a long, long time and with being in the CL next season it will be much tougher.
So yes it will have been a massive bottle job if they don’t win it from here and overall another season to add to their list of trophyless seasons.
But history won’t see it that way neither will the shite media or idiotic pundits. Only fans in the know will see it that way whilst the majority will see Pep and City as the best. This is why you should lament Arsenal blowing this.
People expecting us to not be on this position again will be very disappointed over the next 4-5 years. I see us taking Liverpools place as city’s main rivals for many years to come.
Well if they do the treble they would be the best team ever, how they got there is the issue, but no one will care about that.
Nah. I think Arsenal will be in the mix but it won’t be a two horse race. Those days are gone.
It’s never anything more than a 2 horse race. Unless it’s a one horse race if city play next season like they have the last 2 months
Feck me, you lot really are the most deluded fans.
If you say so but I’d say you’re wrong
feck everyone else - we will know and that's all I care about.
A failure, not… a missed opportunity, yes. With CL and much higher expectations from day 1, next year won’t be the same. Another outcome is they lose the title on the pitch but win it in June because City are docked points?
Can’t see that, city have far better lawyers than juve
This season could have easily been a 3 horse race if United started their season in August like everyone else. Next year will be way harder if half of Chelsea's shite sticks and Liverpool sign 2/3 players.
Leagues not over yet and I don't think failure is correct.
If they lose out in the end it'll harden them up for trophy pushes in the future, as it does with most teams. They're also still about 2 years shy of that peak average age of 27 that the winners usually are.
It'll def be a bit of a kick in the balls to them but no way a failure. Calling it a failure is roy Keane over reactionary nonsense. 90pts is never a failure and it's around that they'll finish.
If they lose out in the end it'll harden them up for trophy pushes in the future, as it does with most teams. They're also still about 2 years shy of that peak average age of 27 that the winners usually are.
It'll def be a bit of a kick in the balls to them but no way a failure. Calling it a failure is roy Keane over reactionary nonsense. 90pts is never a failure and it's around that they'll finish.
There’ll be the same ifs next season.
It’ll be defined by what happens in the coming years. If they fade away next year and don’t win anything, it’ll be a failure (similar to how Ole’s finishes are seen). If they use it as a springboard for better things, it’s a success.
TBH they have a habit of bottling title runs. They almost cocked it up in 1989. And I still don't know how they didn't win it in 2003, that was an experienced team.
Arsenal should be kicking themselves if they don't win the title considering all the fortune with injuries and those 'name on the trophy' moments, winning games late. Perhaps the only solace is they've tied up Saka, Martinelli, and have a team to build.
This pretty much sums up.
Specially with the refrence of losing a 2-0 lead...
With the way this season has turned finishing second would be a disappointment but not a failure.
Not being in Top4 or gaining less than 75pts would have been a failure otherwise there is clear progress to be seen.
Sorry to break the news here, but Liverpool and Arsenal are two clubs with very different expectations.
Last two results have been disastrous, easily on a par with a 4-4 with Everton, but it's not over yet. City could have a blip of their own. If not, it is a capitulation which will hurt a long time.
I think 2nd will be a great season for them. I wouldn't have predicted them to be in the top 4 or even top 5 going before things kicked off.
Drawing 2 away games in a row won't really change that. One of them was against Liverpool who have lost only once at home all season despite having a poor season and City got beat there.
More damage was done in February if anything when they picked up 1 point in 3 games. Even then, one of the defeats was to City who are better than them so no surprise there.
Drawing 2 away games in a row won't really change that. One of them was against Liverpool who have lost only once at home all season despite having a poor season and City got beat there.
More damage was done in February if anything when they picked up 1 point in 3 games. Even then, one of the defeats was to City who are better than them so no surprise there.
I was responding specifically to the supposition that this would be the only crack Arsenal have at the title for a long, long time. We have no way of knowing the future and things change fast in football, just a mere 8 months ago no one would’ve expected them to be where they are now.
Liverpool and Chelsea being shit doesn't magically make Arsenal play better, or help them win against non Liverpool/Chelsea teams, and they’ve played the best football in the league this season. At best, you can argue that a better Liverpool/Chelsea would have taken more points in their fixtures against Arsenal, and even then Arsenal would still be in the title race.
Their fans and manager are unbearable twats, and there’s every chance they will experience a drop off next season regardless of their final standing this season, but this is a good football team and they will most likely match Poch Spurs in league’s performance in the next few years.