The Gooners always look well for a period of the season, but when a few results go against them they have a habit of imploding. If they can stay injury free, then they will do well, their lack of quality in depth means once the injuries come they will struggle.
Arsenal's title credentials...
- Thread starter Lynk
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Add a striker and perhaps some defensive cover in January and they have a great shot at the title. To be honest, I'd rather them over Chelsea and City, and obviously Liverpool. Spurs wouldn't sting so much except that I imagine Glaston is a microcosm of their fanbase and thus would be impossible to deal with following a title win.
The fact that they are still waiting for the comeback of Carzola, Poldoski and Walcott make them a force to be reckon this season.
The problem we have is, even though we have many good players and squad depth, our actual team play has been a big concern. Players by players comparison is meaningless in this sense.
Classic sloppy thinking. Arsenal have not started well for the past two seasons but have ramped up towards the business end. We've already had a load of injuries: Podolski, Diaby, Arteta, Vermaelen, Walcott, Ox and Rosicky all missing already.
But ye get a lot of injuries for some reason. Is it something to do with the training? I think ye still need a couple more players, because once it gets the the knockout stage of the Champions League I think ye are a bit thin. As other posters have said, if we do not win the league I would be delighted if Arsenal won it.
Based on their current form since the start of 2013, you're talking a bunch of rubbish here. Football isn't played on paper and Wenger is no idiot. He knows his squad's a bit thin and injuries haven't been kind to them so it's quite obvious he may strengthen in January. I still think many here are severely underestimating their title credentials while not talking an objective look at their current form.
What's the rubbish? That their full backs are nothing to write home about? That, man for man, we're stronger? That they've had an easy start? That they cannot win the league?
We won in 2006/7 with a much weaker squad than Chewsea so Arsenal can do it as well with a supposedly thin squad. I think lack of a top striker would hurt them more than anything as season goes on. Their creative players will have their off days and that's when you need someone like RVP or Rooney who can sneak you a goal for a win.
Foot
Football isn't played on paper. Do with that as you wish. Easy start or not they're currently on a much better run of form than Utd.
What on earth are you talking about? They currently have a host of injuries to their squad and are still grinding out the results. In addition, are you all seriously underestimating Wenger's ability as a top manager?
He has not won anything for 7 years, so its fair to question his ability as a top manager.
Your yardstick for evaluating a manager is clearly different from mine. I won't rate Moyes higher than Wenger any day of the week. In addition we were talking about the current form and title run...not the past 7 years.
Yep, entirely fair IMO, he's been struggling for a long time now.
We had Rio/Vidic as our CBs in 2007. Injuries to both cost us dearly in the CL that year. We just about got away with it in the PL.
Arsenal have nothing close to that at CB. They just dont have a championship winning CB pairing IMO.
That said if I was an Arsenal fan I would thinking breaking into the top 3 is realistic.
It's too early to draw a conclusion on pretty much anything.
Right now the top 3 consists of Arsenal, Tottenham and Liverpool. Southampton is ahead of both us and City, and on par with Chelsea. It's only after 10-15 games or so that the table actually starts making sense.
But I will say this:
This year's Premier League has a totally different feel to it. It's as if Fergie's retirement have redefined the whole league. The trophy is up for grabs for those who have the balls, stamina, and mental strength to take it. I wouldn't be surprised if this season turns out to be one of the most random yet competitive seasons for a really long time. It would be good for the spectators, but bad for us as a club. We need to stay up there as the clear number one(i.e. the team to beat). Moyes has a hell of a task ahead him!
Right now the top 3 consists of Arsenal, Tottenham and Liverpool. Southampton is ahead of both us and City, and on par with Chelsea. It's only after 10-15 games or so that the table actually starts making sense.
But I will say this:
This year's Premier League has a totally different feel to it. It's as if Fergie's retirement have redefined the whole league. The trophy is up for grabs for those who have the balls, stamina, and mental strength to take it. I wouldn't be surprised if this season turns out to be one of the most random yet competitive seasons for a really long time. It would be good for the spectators, but bad for us as a club. We need to stay up there as the clear number one(i.e. the team to beat). Moyes has a hell of a task ahead him!
OK, I love fuelling fires, so here goes with Arsenal v United first team from last weekend comparison.
Szczesny v De Gea. Here we have a narrow De Gea win because Szczesny still has more to prove.
Sagna v Jones. One plays full back as a profession, the other does it because he's asked to. Sagna wins.
Ferdinand v Mertesacker. If you look at careers head to head, Ferdinand wins hands down. If you look at the last year, Mertesacker wins on the basis that his pace has not been exposed and he's actually been excellent in the second best defence of last season. So we're having Mertesacker here, however ridiculous it sounds.
Evans v Koscielny. Koscielny is clearly the more mature defender. Both prone to errors, however. At this stage, Koscielny.
Buttner v Gibbs. I mean, come on. Evra v Gibbs is closer, given one is on decline, and the other is on the up.
Anderson v Ramsey. This isn't a pie eating contest, so Ramsey.
Carrick v Wilshere. Domestically, Carrick at this stage.
Ozil v Kagawa. Ozil, by a distance.
Giroud v Rooney. Rooney, easily.
I cut out a couple of positions because they weren't really comparable. What I am trying to say here is that reputation seems to matter more on the Caf than current performance. If you really look hard at how United players have played in the last six months especially compared to Arsenal's equivalents, it doesn't look as rosy for you lot. Hence my pick of Mertesacker and Koscielny who have both outperformed your players in the same position recently.
I await the bites.
Szczesny v De Gea. Here we have a narrow De Gea win because Szczesny still has more to prove.
Sagna v Jones. One plays full back as a profession, the other does it because he's asked to. Sagna wins.
Ferdinand v Mertesacker. If you look at careers head to head, Ferdinand wins hands down. If you look at the last year, Mertesacker wins on the basis that his pace has not been exposed and he's actually been excellent in the second best defence of last season. So we're having Mertesacker here, however ridiculous it sounds.
Evans v Koscielny. Koscielny is clearly the more mature defender. Both prone to errors, however. At this stage, Koscielny.
Buttner v Gibbs. I mean, come on. Evra v Gibbs is closer, given one is on decline, and the other is on the up.
Anderson v Ramsey. This isn't a pie eating contest, so Ramsey.
Carrick v Wilshere. Domestically, Carrick at this stage.
Ozil v Kagawa. Ozil, by a distance.
Giroud v Rooney. Rooney, easily.
I cut out a couple of positions because they weren't really comparable. What I am trying to say here is that reputation seems to matter more on the Caf than current performance. If you really look hard at how United players have played in the last six months especially compared to Arsenal's equivalents, it doesn't look as rosy for you lot. Hence my pick of Mertesacker and Koscielny who have both outperformed your players in the same position recently.
I await the bites.
Try using this team instead al.
De Gea
Rafael
Vidic
Evans
Evra
Nani
Carrick
Fellaini
Kagawa
Rooney
Van Persie.
De Gea
Rafael
Vidic
Evans
Evra
Nani
Carrick
Fellaini
Kagawa
Rooney
Van Persie.
Only debatable one is Evans vs. Koscielny. Koscielny hasnt done very well this season so I'd say Evans pinches it
That obviously isnt our first 11 though
To be honest I didn't see anything really wrong in your post especially given you were expecting some blowback on here.
Carrick has had an average start to the season so would have him equal to Wilshere at best at this stage.
A good team, and one which would have fared better in terms of direct comparisons.
The issue, however, is that it seems unlikely it would ever be played. Also, no matter how good your forward line is, the most crucial part of the field is the centre midfield area, which is a glaring weakness in your team even now.
I said on Wednesday night that Liverpool got into great areas but couldn't finish you off, and then West Brom did exactly that on Saturday. This was caused by a gap between the defence and the midfield.
Essentially, in terms of player for player, United may well have the better side, but in crucial positions, we're stronger. Add onto that the stability we have, and the quality of the management, and suddenly it's close.
How about comparing first teams instead? Or even better: checking how many of your players would get a spot in our first XI? The only players who'd get a sure spot would be Özil + one central midfielder(Ramsey or Wilshere). You might have been able to squeeze in Walcott/Cazorla on one of the wings, but not both of them. At best we're looking at 3 Arsenal players getting into our first XI.
Fair enough. I was trying to highlight that the difference isn't as large as it might first appear, with some slightly flawed logic.
oh wait, this is a genuine thread. as you were.....
Why wouldnt that ever be played? When Fellaini finally gets up to speed, thats pretty much obviously the plan. The only exception being injuries and the likelyhood that somehow Rio gets a start
When Fellaini finally gets up to speed, thats pretty much obviously the plan. The only exception being injuries and the likelyhood that somehow Rio gets a startWhy wouldnt that ever be played?
And Rio is the major problem! Young and Valencia will also be regulars, no doubt.
Well to be honest, I think you could get away with going first 11 vs first 11 and still make the point that its pretty close based on the form of our two teams.
We arent talking about Ferdinand in his prime, Fellaini and Kagawa at their best etc... Because we're still yet to see it. So if you want to say your players are better... They very well might be right now. And there's no guarantee every player will reach their best here...
Young and Valencia have been dropped for two games in a row...but I think Moyes is still trying to work out what works best for him. He started Giggs nearly every game before it finally dawned on him that he wasn't up to scratch as a regular.
Team selection is definitely an issue with us, but with Nani and Kagawa being in for the last 2 and being among our best players, Moyes would have a suicide wish to start throwing Valencia and Young back in as the starters. That would be one way to pile on the pressure from the fans
Well we're in agreement really.
When you talk about players, you have to look at the results behind them.
We have won 18/21 games, stretching back to March. The Villa game was really exceptional in terms of pure ridiculousness. We drew against Everton and United.
That shows that recently, our team has functioned much better as a unit, despite injuries, than that of any other.
United do still have top class players, so that can be turned around, but it's yet to materialise.
An average midfielder and a world class striker is better than a world class midfielder and an average striker. Don't get ahead of yourself thinking you have a better side. You've had the same manager for nearly two decades where ours just left, it was always going to be rocky and the people who come out with tripe about how it should be the same because it's the same players need to have a little think.
And I'm not sure why that side won't ever be played? Do you think Moyes would play buttner against your lot?
We are the team that prefers not to use our strongest eleven for some reason.
It would be a travesty if Arsenal win because ourselves, City and Chelsea have a poor season. We need to peg them back as soon as possible.. Can't stand the idea of them winning.
You played us when we looked drunk and had already won the title. When you played us earlier in the season (when it mattered) you were embarrassingly shit.
I would agree, but I think a top midfield unit is more important than a world class striker. A midfield that will dominate games, contribute goals and stop them going in as well is more crucial than someone who will get you a goal a game.
If you want evidence of this, look at how you've not scored from open play since the first day despite having 2 world class strikers on your books.
Think I have the perfect comparison for you alistair if you want to spark some flames. Gnabri Vs. Januzaj
Don't like to see anybody else win but ourselves, but of all the other teams, seeing Arsenal win would be least discomforting.
I have no clue. Gnabry looked good last night but is raw as steak tartare.
Aye, I can see that. However, not for me! I grew up when our rivalry with them was at its fiercest, hasn't gone away for me yet
