Everything has been so sort sighted since Moyes failed. Ole is actually the first person since who has spoken out about seeing the bigger picture and having some sort of vision - whether he will be the right manager to see it through is under question atm. But we sure have to continue with it, just seeing through if the next manager fits the criteria.
As a fanbase - what are we all unhappy about?
- Thread starter Wumminator
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Yes, its like at first Woody agrees to anything with (insert manager), then when that fecks up and doesnt bear fruit, decides to go off on a tangent, not backing them and/or sacking them for the next thing that pops up in his head.
Wait there.
We’ve signed some good players for the first time in ages.
We’ve got rid of the deadwood massively.
That doesn’t apply to this season at allz
Yes and this has gone on under all 4 managers and different coaches, so its not easy to put a finger on and say thats the problem. In fact a lot regress as well. Maguire Wan and James this season aint playing the same as they started. Martial, Bailley, Rojo, Shaw, Mata, Matic, although age might have a say in the last 2 as well, even Dalot out of the players still here all have got worse.
This year players are clearly getting better.
Fred, Rashford, McTominay, Lindelof, Martial and Shaw have improved from this time last year.
Williams and Greenwood have integrated into the first team.
Fred, Rashford, McTominay, Lindelof, Martial and Shaw have improved from this time last year.
Williams and Greenwood have integrated into the first team.
Well, regarding the Glazer ownership specifically i've hated them since they arrived and always will because they exploited a financial opportunity to gain ownership of our club. A 100+ year old British institution of world renown. It annoys me when people say the Glazers brought the club - no they didn't - Manchester United brought itself and then gifted itself into the hands of foreign ownership, it cost them not a penny. For this very same reason i also have deep rooted anger towards the FA and indeed the British government who should have done more to protect us against this eventuality - i also feel exactly the same towards the ownership of Chelsea, City, Liverpool and all the other clubs who have fallen foul to these vultures who will feed off fan loyalty and the popularity of our league forever more and giving nothing back to the communities to which these clubs truly belong. /rant
with regards to their actual day to day stewardship i'm in a similar boat to @MikeUpNorth in that the mess we made post Fergie needs a major rebuild that will take a lot of patience and a bit of a brass neck as there's every chance it'll be a bumpy road and if we tear it all up at the first sign of trouble it'll only get worse. Having said that however being a football fan as long as i have i also know it's not impossible for the right manager or a couple of players to change things drastically, unfortunately for us though the 2 best coaches in world football are currently in residence with our greatest rivals. And the English league right now is probably as competitive as i've seen it in my lifetime and it's now incredibly hard to buy players from domestic rivals and weaken them in the process. I do feel we have a nice promising core of youngsters, we're crying out for some experience though
with regards to their actual day to day stewardship i'm in a similar boat to @MikeUpNorth in that the mess we made post Fergie needs a major rebuild that will take a lot of patience and a bit of a brass neck as there's every chance it'll be a bumpy road and if we tear it all up at the first sign of trouble it'll only get worse. Having said that however being a football fan as long as i have i also know it's not impossible for the right manager or a couple of players to change things drastically, unfortunately for us though the 2 best coaches in world football are currently in residence with our greatest rivals. And the English league right now is probably as competitive as i've seen it in my lifetime and it's now incredibly hard to buy players from domestic rivals and weaken them in the process. I do feel we have a nice promising core of youngsters, we're crying out for some experience though
There's noone at the top who puts football first.
I really cannot believe that Ole is happy with the lack of signings that leaves us with such a threadbare squad. He's done a good job so far of weeding out the deadwood but Woody/Judge really need to get their fingers out and actually sign some players.
I will not (currently) blame Ole for the poor results because of the lack of options he has. I would just like to see a full team on the pitch for once, with options ready on the bench if needed.
I really cannot believe that Ole is happy with the lack of signings that leaves us with such a threadbare squad. He's done a good job so far of weeding out the deadwood but Woody/Judge really need to get their fingers out and actually sign some players.
I will not (currently) blame Ole for the poor results because of the lack of options he has. I would just like to see a full team on the pitch for once, with options ready on the bench if needed.
During Utd's quarterly conference call to shareholders, 2018, Ed opined the gem: " Playing performance doesn't really have a meaningful impact on what we can do on the commercial side of the business."
However, if it follows, to most, that "playing performance" does in fact have a significant influence on a club's ability to win trophies, then it would appear that Ed isn't much fussed about the way we kick a ball, or lead the line, or play the offside, or generally deport ourselves in the most basic representation of what it is to be a footballer, play in a team, or win silverware.
The fact that Ed Woodward has been maligned for that quotation galls me somewhat, he was on an investment phone call.
The fact is the numbers clearly show that we will be hindered if we aren’t competitive. Hence the desire for champions league and the consistent spending.
Currently I'm pissed off that we didnt replace Lukaku in the summer and that we still have not signed anyone this window.
Outisde of that I think the biggest five issues or mistakes over the last 10 years or so are as follows:
1. Not replacing Ronaldo, I'm sure we could have swapped him for Robben and Sneijder who left madrid that summer.
2. Not signing Eden Hazard when we had the chance. What a howler that turned out to be.
3. Poor succession planning. Gill and Fergie should not have left at the same time and we shouldn't have listened to Fergie re choosing Moyes.
4. Woodward making a mess or hiring Klopp who said it was like a Disneyland presentation or something.
5. Poor player recruitment in general in the last decade. Though I blame the various managers for this.
Re the Glazers, while they do drain money from the club which is another problem, we have spent as much almost as anyone else since 2010 so cant say that lack of spending on players has been the issue(historically at least).
Also no doubt that liverpool doing so well adds to our pain.
Outisde of that I think the biggest five issues or mistakes over the last 10 years or so are as follows:
1. Not replacing Ronaldo, I'm sure we could have swapped him for Robben and Sneijder who left madrid that summer.
2. Not signing Eden Hazard when we had the chance. What a howler that turned out to be.
3. Poor succession planning. Gill and Fergie should not have left at the same time and we shouldn't have listened to Fergie re choosing Moyes.
4. Woodward making a mess or hiring Klopp who said it was like a Disneyland presentation or something.
5. Poor player recruitment in general in the last decade. Though I blame the various managers for this.
Re the Glazers, while they do drain money from the club which is another problem, we have spent as much almost as anyone else since 2010 so cant say that lack of spending on players has been the issue(historically at least).
Also no doubt that liverpool doing so well adds to our pain.
While I wouldn't call Maguire a flop yet, spending £80m on him was a severe waste of resources considering how much this squad still needs. He's also made no difference to our defence really, swap him for Smalling and we'd be no worse off points wise.
We got rid of half the deadwood, the other half is still here and some were offered new contracts.
It all applies to this season.
If you can't see that the sentiment isn't one, in its totality, that is in any way qualified by context then your opinion, as you say "galls me somewhat".
Buying the club using its future profits. Meaning we go from not having a debt, to suddenly having one.
Taking huge wads out of the club.
Hiring their mate Woodward who helped broker the above deal.
Suspicion we've made certain signings for the "social interaction" and marketing angles.
Mix in that, with our absolute incompetence in choice of manager, and their choice of players, and it's a right old mess.
Taking huge wads out of the club.
Hiring their mate Woodward who helped broker the above deal.
Suspicion we've made certain signings for the "social interaction" and marketing angles.
Mix in that, with our absolute incompetence in choice of manager, and their choice of players, and it's a right old mess.
It's the lack of structure actually. We've spent money and most of the signings, at the time we made them, seemed sensible and all of us were happy about nearly each one of them, if not all.
The issue has been that most of these signings were short term fixes and suited to the style of that particular manager only. Now if you are shifting from Moyes to LVG to Mou to Ole, there isn't a plan of how the successor will get the most out of the existing players. Like, LVG's signings lacked physicality required for Mou's regime. Mou's players- Matic, Lukaku- will be useless in system used by most other managers, let alone Ole.
There needs to be some continuity in the side, the managers need to be hired based on a thorough interview process, which, I doubt we've had ever! Signings need to be based keeping a 5-7 year plan in mind not the next 2 seasons. And that is what frustrates me about us now.
The issue has been that most of these signings were short term fixes and suited to the style of that particular manager only. Now if you are shifting from Moyes to LVG to Mou to Ole, there isn't a plan of how the successor will get the most out of the existing players. Like, LVG's signings lacked physicality required for Mou's regime. Mou's players- Matic, Lukaku- will be useless in system used by most other managers, let alone Ole.
There needs to be some continuity in the side, the managers need to be hired based on a thorough interview process, which, I doubt we've had ever! Signings need to be based keeping a 5-7 year plan in mind not the next 2 seasons. And that is what frustrates me about us now.
My observations based on the caf behavior is we were unhappy about the manager being not proven under moyes. Then we were unhappy about the manager not playing attacking football under lvg. Then under mou we were unhappy about our style of play, ott wages and trf fees and the toxic atmosphere around the club. And now we are unhappy about the results and lack of investment.
Basically what i have surmised is we are an unhappy lot and love moaning.
Basically what i have surmised is we are an unhappy lot and love moaning.
What's the appeal of teams (brands) being in the CL for commercial partnerships?
Exposure; combined with the brand's status, will influence how much the club can charge their partners.
Manchester United doesn't need specific types exposure. The club has more dedicated fans than almost every team out there. Fans who are guaranteed to tune in no matter what competition the club is in.
They might see a small reduction in the pulling power of the brand due to poor results on the pitch but those actual bodies who follow, subscribe, etc., are a bigger selling point when negotiating those partnerships.
As for me, the recruitment hasn't been right and the wild expenditure on bad fits has made it cost even more for the club to sign players.
It's not that they don't want to win, it's that they don't prioritize it. Given a choice they'd choose profit over result every time. That's what I think they're doing, they're trying to cut corners, which is proving to be more costly in the long run.
We don't really need to win trophies to make profits, just make top 4, get champions league, do reasonably well. This is what I think they are trying to do; find a sweet spot between results and profit, and they are failing at it because short term profits are a priority.
Since Sir Alex retired:
- We have an average squad and coach
- Our owners will not spend the money needed or put the pressure on Woodward to bring in the correct structure
- The league is going to be won by either Man City or Liverpool for the foreseeable future
- There is a real risk that things can get quite a lot worse
Global fans. Think of all the children from 2013 to present from different countries that will grow up supporting City / Liverpool for the rest of their lives, during the 20s they’ll be mid teens / early adults. Not calling international fans glory hunters but Real and Barca and are the most supported teams in South America because they are the ones children there see winning and start supporting from a young age.
That’s why in some African countries you have hardcore Aston Villa and Notts Forest fans usually now id guess most are in their 50s, and 40/30s in cases where the supporter has followed the team that his dad supports.
Appeal of CL is exposure.
For me, it's the lack of investment in the team. Now you can say that we've spent over 700 million, but that's only on players and as a team we've receded in terms of quality.
Similarly, look at Barcelona. Whilst they are still an amazing team, I think this season +3 years they'll be in a similar stage to where we are because they had the likes of Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Eto'o, etc leave and I don't feel they've replaced the effect they've had on the team, rather they just bought some players to replace them. Countinho, Neymar, DeJong, Zlatan, and a few other flops remind me of us getting in big names for a quick fix and it just not working. I think we should also start looking at more countries where we do not normally venture in regards to signings. Germany, France, Italy always have teams that have random amazing African players, but we never seem to get young foreign talent at a good price.
Right now, I would like us to do something to change the culture of the team. From the training, scouts, fitness regime, diets, etc. Then build on that and add a culture shift to who we're buying and not to rely on the multi-multi million pound signings and also not to just buy British for the sakes of it. It feels like the Premiership teams have passed us by, we already knew Europe did decades ago with our lack of CL trophies - but other English teams improving ahead of us is truly upsetting.
There's more but my mind is everywhere. I just feel we have not modernised our club and are still riding on the crest of what Sir Alex has done for us. That was never going to last. We've modernised our money making capabilities with all these new sponsorship deals, but that money has not gone back into what made us a global giant: our team
Similarly, look at Barcelona. Whilst they are still an amazing team, I think this season +3 years they'll be in a similar stage to where we are because they had the likes of Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Eto'o, etc leave and I don't feel they've replaced the effect they've had on the team, rather they just bought some players to replace them. Countinho, Neymar, DeJong, Zlatan, and a few other flops remind me of us getting in big names for a quick fix and it just not working. I think we should also start looking at more countries where we do not normally venture in regards to signings. Germany, France, Italy always have teams that have random amazing African players, but we never seem to get young foreign talent at a good price.
Right now, I would like us to do something to change the culture of the team. From the training, scouts, fitness regime, diets, etc. Then build on that and add a culture shift to who we're buying and not to rely on the multi-multi million pound signings and also not to just buy British for the sakes of it. It feels like the Premiership teams have passed us by, we already knew Europe did decades ago with our lack of CL trophies - but other English teams improving ahead of us is truly upsetting.
There's more but my mind is everywhere. I just feel we have not modernised our club and are still riding on the crest of what Sir Alex has done for us. That was never going to last. We've modernised our money making capabilities with all these new sponsorship deals, but that money has not gone back into what made us a global giant: our team
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Lack of ambition is the thing for which i am upset. They don't want to build a team who will challenge for title. Their goal is to be in top 4. Investing minimum to get maximum.
Last two years are best proof for that. Jose finished second, moan every day how he needs 4 players to challenge for title and he got Fred and Dalot. After him we went for cheapest option on the market; Solskjaer and finished transfer window with 70 mil net spend.
Last two years are best proof for that. Jose finished second, moan every day how he needs 4 players to challenge for title and he got Fred and Dalot. After him we went for cheapest option on the market; Solskjaer and finished transfer window with 70 mil net spend.
This is it in a nutshell. Well put.
As a season ticket holder the most frustrating thing for me is the lack of progress and dire football. I know that I’ll always renew my season ticket as I love the club and going to the game as I always have done. But 6 years of rubbish is becoming difficult to take.
It annoys me when all I see is the success off the pitch like increasing revenues matched with terrible investment and no clear football strategy. We need to become a football club again and we have nobody at board level able to make that happen.
As a proud Manc the real real real problem is seeing those feckers from down the East Lancs Road rising up again and we’re nowhere near challenging them.
It annoys me when all I see is the success off the pitch like increasing revenues matched with terrible investment and no clear football strategy. We need to become a football club again and we have nobody at board level able to make that happen.
As a proud Manc the real real real problem is seeing those feckers from down the East Lancs Road rising up again and we’re nowhere near challenging them.
For me its really simple
we aren't a football club
we are a Glazer investment
monetizing and extracting money from United is the priority
we aren't a football club
we are a Glazer investment
monetizing and extracting money from United is the priority
The matchday pies.
Is that different than Liverpool’s owners?
Hate the Glazers because they are milking the club and most importantly because their priority is not the product on the pitch. They have made their money. Please sell and move on.
Hate Woodward because he lacks ownership of his own skill set. I have had jobs before where I knew I was not skilled in certain aspects of the new role. First thing I would do is get someone skilled who I trusted to take ownership of that skill set. Woodward needs a DoF, and the fact he has not sorted this is on him and is unforgivable. You are an adult, act like one.
Hate Woodward because he lacks ownership of his own skill set. I have had jobs before where I knew I was not skilled in certain aspects of the new role. First thing I would do is get someone skilled who I trusted to take ownership of that skill set. Woodward needs a DoF, and the fact he has not sorted this is on him and is unforgivable. You are an adult, act like one.
Lack of direction. Hired Moyes because of loyality, hired LvG because of his philosophy, hired Mourinho because he won stuff, hired Ole because of United DNA.
Each manager wanted to sell previous manager's players. Glazers spent money but wasted most of it
Each manager wanted to sell previous manager's players. Glazers spent money but wasted most of it
Lack of planning. Being reactive and not proactive.
1. Bring in Edwin to replace Ed.
2. Ralf Rangnick. Set the tone and play of our football team.
3. Paul Mitchell as head talent recruiter.
4. Marco Rose. The man did a great job at Salzburg and doing a very good job at Gladbach.
Mixture of proven talent and experienced heads. But main thing, football people with proven track record to do what we need.
1. Bring in Edwin to replace Ed.
2. Ralf Rangnick. Set the tone and play of our football team.
3. Paul Mitchell as head talent recruiter.
4. Marco Rose. The man did a great job at Salzburg and doing a very good job at Gladbach.
Mixture of proven talent and experienced heads. But main thing, football people with proven track record to do what we need.
We're not happy because we're not winning
Non of this matters if we're winning.
If we win the league under moyes? fecking great, cut from the same cloth, legacy continues
If we win the league under lvg? Total football baby, phylosophy, great snatch ed. Who needs pep?
If we win the league under jose? Finally, should have hired him after fergie. Some fans would still find things to complains but most will fall in line.
If ole wins the league? This place would explode.
So... it's only bad if youre losing.
Non of this matters if we're winning.
If we win the league under moyes? fecking great, cut from the same cloth, legacy continues
If we win the league under lvg? Total football baby, phylosophy, great snatch ed. Who needs pep?
If we win the league under jose? Finally, should have hired him after fergie. Some fans would still find things to complains but most will fall in line.
If ole wins the league? This place would explode.
So... it's only bad if youre losing.
it's a valid point I think
I think they are more focused on the importance of sporting success than the corporate side. United spent big early on but in the last 3 years we've seen austerity at our club.
You wonder what Liverpool's spending would have looked like had things been a little different.
firstly they have Klopp who is fantastic manager who gets the best out of the players.
They've obviously got a structure in place for identifying targets - signings like Wijnaldum, Matip, Robertson, Fabinho, Salah, Mane, Firmino for fees ranging from nothing to 40m
their spending has been boosted greatly by sales. While we were selling the likes of Evans, RVP, Nani, Anderson, Blind, Hernandez, Rafael, Fabio, Zaha and Darmian for a pittance they were selling Coutinho, Sterling, Suarez, Benteke for great fees. Even players like Solanke, Ings, Sahko all went for 20-25m
if they hadn't received that financial shot in the arm I wonder would we have seen the big spending on guys like VVD, Keita or Allison?
fundamentally though Liverpool is like a football club as the owners - who are investors, let's be in no doubt - sacked Rodgers at the right time to get Klopp and have put structures in place to maximise football success.... that's how it seems to me anyway
you certainly couldn't say that at United and the likes of Woodward and Judge arent effective 'football people'. Woodward's reluctance to hire a DoF is akin to a kid not wanting to share his toys. LVG/Mourinho have all lambasted the ridiculous structure at United and stories like the one about the Celtic physio makes us look like an amateurish operation.
The complete ineptitude of the club. That sums up everything from top to bottom.
This, all day long.
The amount of replies here focussing on money spent on players is disheartening. Surely people can see that throwing more money at it is part of the problems that have spiralled so far.
Not happy because of:
- For the owners and also Woodward don't know about football, this football club is seen now as a trademark
- Woodward has a higher priority to commercial and sponsorship deals
- Looking like owners and Woodward don't care if the club is winning or not, as long the commercial deals, dividends and stocks are fine and rising
- Woodward still wants to keep the power in the club regarding squad building and transfers
- Woodward vetoes the team manager regarding transfers
- Woodward keeps talking instead of doing, for example wating for a DoF
- Woodward once said this club is like Disneyland and we can do this in transfer market which other clubs can dream of
- Woodward screwed up with attracting Jürgen Klopp to become the manager
- The way how the club deals now with player transfers when comes to negotiations for transfer fees
- Overpaying players in term of wage and transfer fees
- Letting a striker and midfielders leave without replacing them decently
I don't like the fact that we are no longer an attractive destination for top, top players.
I don't like the fact that Pogba doesn't even pretend to support the club or his teammates during his various "injuries".
SAF would not have stood for that.
I don't like the fact that Pogba doesn't even pretend to support the club or his teammates during his various "injuries".
SAF would not have stood for that.
I'm unhappy because the guy who actually bought us has died - he seemingly knew that the cash cow (us) needed to be nurtured, thus having people at the club know what they were doing, yes he was lucky to have Fergie, but Gill was an astute appointment, dont get me wrong we never spent huge amounts of money that most of us wanted back then, but we still won.
Now his kids are in charge, and they seemed to have missed business school 101 by putting a banker in charge of football matters and anyone with half a brain will know that if you have a business you know nothing about, you out someone in charge who does, yet they decided their pal Woodward was that man, and failing to do anything about it for 7 years.
Our issues seem huge now as it has manifested from that one decision to replace Gill with Woodward 7 years ago, put the best football people in the right places and the trickle down from that will see us become a super club within 10 years, but continue on this path - we will be mid to lower table within 5.
Now his kids are in charge, and they seemed to have missed business school 101 by putting a banker in charge of football matters and anyone with half a brain will know that if you have a business you know nothing about, you out someone in charge who does, yet they decided their pal Woodward was that man, and failing to do anything about it for 7 years.
Our issues seem huge now as it has manifested from that one decision to replace Gill with Woodward 7 years ago, put the best football people in the right places and the trickle down from that will see us become a super club within 10 years, but continue on this path - we will be mid to lower table within 5.
My biggest concern is the fact that established players that come to the club, that have shown their quality in their previous clubs or when representing their countries, turn into mediocre players
or even worse.
or even worse.
Very few people would be unhappy with Woody and the Glazers if we were winning trophies. The Club structure is the cause but my biggest complaints are simple, poor results and lack of silverware.
If we were winning premierships etc. I wouldn’t care who the owners are.
If we were winning premierships etc. I wouldn’t care who the owners are.
Manager needs to go
CEO needs to go
Owners need to fcuk off
First appointment needed is DOF and a functional Board in place. Scouts need to be overhauled, they are not good enough.
Then after interviews by the board and consultation with DOF, a new manager should be appointed.
CEO needs to go
Owners need to fcuk off
First appointment needed is DOF and a functional Board in place. Scouts need to be overhauled, they are not good enough.
Then after interviews by the board and consultation with DOF, a new manager should be appointed.
It has always amazed me how awful our scouting network is. We never unearth hidden gems, we wait for other clubs to find them and then (sometimes) offer silly money to get them.
It's weird how the Bundesliga clubs seem to do this so much better, mopping up so many good players from Asia and the US. Alphonso Davies at Bayern is a great recent example.
Give it another 5 years and I reckon the Utd scouting network might be aware he exists.
I truly believe that your average FM player knows more about up and coming players than our scouts. Not a joke.
It's weird how the Bundesliga clubs seem to do this so much better, mopping up so many good players from Asia and the US. Alphonso Davies at Bayern is a great recent example.
Give it another 5 years and I reckon the Utd scouting network might be aware he exists.
I truly believe that your average FM player knows more about up and coming players than our scouts. Not a joke.