@Alex99 ... care to respond?!
As Rugby refuses to take the knee, is it time the Premier League stopped too?
- Thread starter Zexstream
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They have.
It's no longer connected to BLM. It's 'no room for racism' now.
https://www.premierleague.com/NoRoomForRacism
I think it proves the player's point. As long as people continue to froth in the mouth cause racism is highlighted, they should continue.
It appears no matter how many times you point this out it won't matter. They ain't tryna hear you. Don't you realise the Millwall fans who chose to boo are totally up to speed on the merits of Marxism!!
Sorry meant evils of marxism
Action does indeed speak louder than words and gestures, but those words and gestures raise awareness and put a spotlight on the issue, which puts those in power under more pressure to take the necessary action.
We need Fifa/UEFA, the FA, Premier League and all other football governing bodies to take meaningful action against racist behaviour, as they have failed to do so numerous times in the past. Taking the knee before every match makes these authorities look increasingly out of touch every time they take a soft approach to racist behaviour.
Eh? What about those who aren't racist, are of the opinion that racism is ingrained in the society, but are not convinced that gestures such as kneeling would actually do anything to solve or at least substantially reduce racism in football or society in general? You see people with certain influence like Les Ferdinand who is of the said opinion. I don't agree with his take (I think the gesture should continue for it's important for kids especially to see that racism, overt as well as structural, is still a big societal issue) but it's terribly unfair to say there are only two reasons why someone would be uneasy of the gesture.
If this makes me a pseudo-intellectual so be it, but as with anything in the field of social science, nuance is very important.
That's exactly what already happened, a long time ago. People like to pretend they don't know this.
Its weird that for an effort against racism to be worth it it has to actually solve or substantially reduce racism. Those are quite high standards.
No one think that kneeling will 'stop' racism. That is not the bloody point. They do it to make people MORE aware and that can if not stop it, at least make it better.
What I fail to see, is how anyone at all are against it!
I find it quite odd, that grown men and women actually have a problem with footballers taking a knee. That alone should be a red flag. No sane person would have a problem with players taking a knee for 2 seconds before a match starts.
I didn't
It does make me laugh people saying "well it doesn't stop racism so why bother?"
I have to ask myself:
A) why would footballers taking a knee for 10 seconds before a game bother you in any way at all? Like, what problem does this cause in your life?
and
B) There's no one solution that can stop suddenly put an end to racism since it's a facet of human behavior. What you need are hundreds of things like this gesture to occur and hope that by making people more consciously aware of it and that society won't tolerate it we can slowly alter people's behaviors. There's no quick fix. This the long game.
I have to ask myself:
A) why would footballers taking a knee for 10 seconds before a game bother you in any way at all? Like, what problem does this cause in your life?
and
B) There's no one solution that can stop suddenly put an end to racism since it's a facet of human behavior. What you need are hundreds of things like this gesture to occur and hope that by making people more consciously aware of it and that society won't tolerate it we can slowly alter people's behaviors. There's no quick fix. This the long game.
Racism is most certainly not a thing of the past...it would be lovely to think it's 'a problem that really isn't there anymore' but nothing could be further from the truth?? I am genuinely not sure how anyone can come to the conclusion that racism isn't still a big issue in the modern UK social structure..
FYI: https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ves-matter-badge-from-shirts-for-own-campaignI didn't
(from Sep 10, 2020)
I definitely don't belong to that school of thought and kneeling is good optics for the fight against racism in football, in rallies, wherever; long may it continue. It's just that I don't think it's fair to deem someone as automatically being obtuse or even worse, racist, if one is not on board with the gesture. There are other reasons why someone might not be on board with it as best exemplified by Les Ferdinand.
And it's also important to note that different people have different standards: some (like you and I) believe gestures matter for the fight in the long run whilst others may think if it doesn't have instant impact why bother doing at all. The latter view is very idealistic but we shouldn't discount it, either.
It quite literally shows how ingrained racism is in these people. They believe themselves not to be racist but are offended by people showing they stand or rather take a knee for the fight for equality. You'd think if you truly didn't have ingrained racism in you, you wouldn't be at all bothered by it especially as it only takes 2-5 seconds before a game. Pretty pathetic isn't itWow. Do footballers bending the knee for about 5 seconds before the start of a match, to raise awareness of an important issue, really upset some people so much?
Still waiting @alexthelion
Yep, this is it. They consider themselves not to be racist but can’t handle anything like this, and consider it an affront to themselves. They don’t want to acknowledge that there is any issue because it means they’re imperfect. It’s like it’s a blow to their ego. It’s very strange, pathetic behaviour.
Sorry, but this is just ridiculous. We NEED both (centre) right and left in our social democracies, or they devolve into dangerous extremes fairly quickly. If you want to see how purely rightwing or leftwing utopias look, buy a 20th century history book.
A bit late to the party, but anyone up for a game?
I didn’t say we don’t need them. I’m still waiting for one person to answer the question I asked. A few people have completely skirted it so far.
Yeah, so opposing the kneestand makes you racist. The irony
There are almost certainly racially charged reasons behind it, obviously, whether it’s misplaced ego or more. There’s literally no other reason to be against it.
I missed the context of your question. Did you mean a good thing the right has done when it comes to racial equality? Or just in general?
The latter is easy for me as a self employed designer: tax incentives for small businesses
I'm not sure if it's all (just) about racism. I think a lot of people are just deeply uncomfortable with things that challenge the status quo or things that tell them that their social group has (severe) issues. There is probably a lot of intersection between people who feel offended by players taking the knee and people who have trouble accepting climate change and go mental over Greta Thunberg or people who just flat out reject the possibility that Boris&co might have severely fecked up their Corona response.
Not true. There are many other reasons. For one thing some people think that focusing more and more on race (the name BLM) is not the way to get to a place where race doesn't matter in society.
I get that to progress we need something from both sides, and we certainly don’t want to go too far in any direction, but I’d suggest the real good comes from the left, while the right can allow for that to happen better? The problem is you don’t have to step that far right to see that selfishness, greed, exploitation, and race issues are rife.I missed the context of your question. Did you mean a good thing the right has done when it comes to racial equality? Or just in general?
The latter is easy for me as a self employed designer: tax incentives for small businesses
Anyway, I’m more thinking what’s going on, from the right, that’s really helping us, me and you, Alex the lion, our families, people with less than us. Forwarding society, culture, people’s lives. I understand that capitalism has contributed to those things, even if for selfish reasons, but it’s also taken a lot and is out of control. And now it looks like it almost entirely takes.
Putting aside the bigger picture, in my life, I’ve never been affected in a positive manner from the right and I can see all these negative effects on people around me and people with less than me. It looks to me like quality of life seems to get worse as time goes on when the country leans right. And I’m in a privileged position, as a working class white man. I can only imagine how others feel.
I also don’t see any positive movements from the right? Even if you don’t agree with BLM, racial equality is undoubtedly a positive thing.
I’d say your example is a good one though. All for that.
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Deffo a big element of this. This is where my mention of ego comes in to it. But theres a large element of ego in racism.
I am left leaning so I will try to remove my bias. Off the top of my head I can't think of many positives from the right wing government unless I research it on the internet
The list of things they've done, looks quite small but the right (or the Tories) are all about creating wealth through private enterprise mainly. Their influence historically can be seen in the wealth they created and the economic growth, which is more difficult to pinpoint unless researching historical data.
Sanitation was from the Tories but that was over 100 years ago.
Thatchers government gave people the right to buy their council house (which for a lot of poor families including mine wouldn't have been able to own a house otherwise).
Abolishing the mines (people lost jobs and people could argue it was a bad thing to do but it sure helped with peoples health long term).
Tories have historically had lower taxes than Labour as their philosophy has mainly been for less taxes to help stimulate economic growth
I’m not sure people would attribute much positivity with regards to tories and mining, but yeah, there’s some decent points here, although not much to shout about in my lifetime.
Interesting how the right leaning guys can’t seem to provide a decent answer.
Yeah I mean....it’s pretty revealing and it’s not a good look
I haven't quite decided what's worse; the existence of this thread given the rising number of race-related incidents recently or usage of the term "wokeness" (which is a real word according to google) in the original post.
I didn't bother reading beyond the first post as it was fairly obvious this thread would go swimmingly for the op.
I didn't bother reading beyond the first post as it was fairly obvious this thread would go swimmingly for the op.
Ive been here for a while and I honestly did not realize there were so many racists amongst us.
Its been eye opening.
No, in order to understand a problem, one has to specify what the problem is, otherwise, you're shooting blind.
You've already gone into this with your biases trying to impute some unfounded rationale to my words.
That is the very enemy of critical thinking and discussion/conversation.
Cool story bro.
I've voted Green Party (in Belgium) my whole life because they offer the best solutions to the biggest issues in life (global warming, animal welfare, equal rights, etc) as I see them.
It's not helpful, however, to portray your own vision of reality as "good" and anything that does not work towards your vision as "bad". This happens way too often on both sides (especially online), hence the ever more extreme opposites.
An example: our government recently outlawed non-sedated slaughter of animals. This is a measure I strongly support, but there are also many on the left who see this as an attack on muslim and jewish religious rights.
Another example of a "good" right wing measure: deportation of criminal aliens. I'm all for granting asylum and providing as much opportunity for immigrants as possible, but I don't understand why some on the left (including in the party I vote for) protest removing the bad apples.
What about us who just want to watch a game without being reminded about all that is bad ?
Yes... a bit out of touch to say there isn’t a problem.
You wait five seconds.
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