As Rugby refuses to take the knee, is it time the Premier League stopped too?

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Mount's Goatieson

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You’re absolutely right. White people are the victims in all of this. Truly the most victimized and persecuted race in the world. Thanks for enlightening us.
Is there a single race in this planet's history which has not been victimized and persecuted, either by their own or other races? Arguments like these baffle me sometimes. You do know slavery and other despicable things like Auswithz (forgive my spelling of it) weren't invented in the last few centuries?
There is ongoing modernized forms of slavery going on in Africa and China as we speak, against our own.
 

MattofManchester

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I don’t think it’s inappropriate at all, I still stick to my point that white people doing a black power fist is like jews doing a nazi salute
So, black people who fought for black freedom against white oppression in a time of segregation and where it was okay to get beaten and murdered on the street because somebody didn't like your skin are comparable to the salute of a people who actively took part in the deaths of something around 6 million people?

A movement by people that were tired of being made and considered inferior is criticised as a movement that promotes superiority and "black domination", despite the fact they've never dominated, owned or controlled anything, and the very race criticising their movement is the one who've deemed themselves superior and black people inferior.

I just want to put that in to perspective.


I hope they keep taking the knee, and I hope you keep feeling threatened by movements of people of colour, as you so very clearly are.

This is the height of ignorance.
 

Halftrack

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I don’t think it’s inappropriate at all, I still stick to my point that white people doing a black power fist is like jews doing a nazi salute as some of the whole aims for the black power movement (groups who adopted this gesture) was black pride, black superiority and black nationalism and advocating separatism from the whites and the formation of self-governing black communities i.e. a world of 'division' (not equality) or a world in which black is above white (similar vision to nazi's) and violence was used by these groups in efforts to achieve these goals.

This raised fist being used right now as a symbol for ‘equality’ (ie:- Lewis Hamilton and BLM):-

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/7314...at&fit=max&s=cb64fbebefede7a93bc793341d330902

www.facebook.com/FOXBaltimore/videos/maine-girl-goes-viral-after-kneeling-during-protest/285760125810752/

Is the wrong message, you can’t change what this symbolic gesture meant for other political movements throughout history all of a sudden in the same way you can’t what change what the nazi salute means or other far right salutes.
The Black Panthers primarily sought to end oppression, and to maintain and preserve black culture and identity and avoid assimilation. Black superiority or supremacy was certainly never a central tenet. Trying to draw parallels between that and what the nazis did is bad enough, but to then go on to say that white people doing the black power salute is the same as a Jewish person doing a nazi salute is just completely fecking insane. For that to even make sense, the Black Panther Party's goal would have to be the eradication and extermination of white people in America. It wasn't, they just wanted white people to treat them as equals, for police to treat them as they did white people, and for black culture and identity to be able to thrive.

You're reaching really hard here to paint the BPP as something unambiguously bad, and frankly, it says a lot about you. None of it good, in case you were wondering.
 

psychdelicblues

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this is just a forum for predominately man utd fans, so its not the real world, but looking at the amount of casual racism, some of it unintended, but quite a few comments that are pretty effin blatant, is it surprising the wider world is so messed up.
whether its comparing black power salutes from 60s/70s segregated america to nazi salutes (making them analagous!) or the notion that there is no racism at all in modern day Britain, to 'all lives matter' , to MSM not reporting the thousands of christians being beheaded (and thus reporting on BLM instead is racist), its all here and i seriously dont know whether to laugh or cry. or switch off.

can i just state btw that the comment : "I still stick to my point that white people doing a black power fist is like jews doing a nazi salut " is outrageous. and shows how lacking in any sense of ability to reason intellectually the 'all lives matter' folks are. i blame the likes of shapiro / petterson and their pseudo intellectual white supremacist click bait garbage.
I think someone actually posted links from Breitbart to buttress his/her point.
 
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SirMarcusRashford

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I hope they keep taking the knee, and I hope you keep feeling threatened by movements of people of colour, as you so very clearly are.
It doesn't bother me if they carry on taking the knee or not. I've gave me views in that it's served purpose and there needs to be a new message.

If you think i feel threatened by this, then you don't know me one bit, i hate racism of any kind. As i white person i don't feel as though i'm above anyone because of skin colour, my username is named after a black Manchester United footballer who i am a fan of what he does off the pitch and his potential on it. But your comment shows my point, if a white person speaks about racism and disagrees with how a certain group goes about things (ie BLM) then they deemed as 'racist', if you feel my point about whites doing a black power fist is like jews doing a nazi salute is wrong, then that’s fair enough, maybe it was.

But my point stands in white people making a black power fist salute and abusing people who don't hold up a fist is nuts, by all means white people should get involved (peacefully) in equality marches, but the black power fist salute is not for white people to make and it's not a gesture to make trying to promote 'equality' even for blacks.

And due to this i'm not a fan of the whole BLM movement, even though its calmed down a bit now anyway, i put the whole BLM movement down to people bored in lockdown and blowing off steam, but it was the wrong slogan anyway from the start, sends out the wrong message and they went about it in the wrong way, in an alternate reality and people felt there was black privilege and whites 2nd class people and the whole slogan was 'white lives matter' i would hate that too.

The message should be clear 'equality' something which all human beings are.
 

Halftrack

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It doesn't bother me if they carry on taking the knee or not. I've gave me views in that it's served purpose and there needs to be a new message.

If you think i feel threatened by this, then you don't know me one bit, i hate racism of any kind. As i white person i don't feel as though i'm above anyone because of skin colour, my username is named after a black Manchester United footballer who i am a fan of what he does off the pitch and his potential on it. But your comment shows my point, if a white person speaks about racism and disagrees with how a certain group goes about things (ie BLM) then they deemed as 'racist', if you feel my point about whites doing a black power fist is like jews doing a nazi salute is wrong, then that’s fair enough, maybe it was.

But my point stands in white people making a black power fist salute and abusing people who don't hold up a fist is nuts, by all means white people should get involved (peacefully) in equality marches, but the black power fist salute is not for white people to make and it's not a gesture to make trying to promote 'equality' even for blacks.

And due to this i'm not a fan of the whole BLM movement, even though its calmed down a bit now anyway, i put the whole BLM movement down to people bored in lockdown and blowing off steam, but it was the wrong slogan anyway from the start, sends out the wrong message and they went about it in the wrong way, in an alternate reality and people felt there was black privilege and whites 2nd class people and the whole slogan was 'white lives matter' i would hate that too.

The message should be clear 'equality' something which all human beings are.
You're just making yourself look worse with every post you make. Writing off protests against racial inequality as "people getting bored and blowing off steam" is incredibly fecking dismissive and condescending, and shows just how completely ignorant and out of touch you are. And a white dude telling black people how they should go about protesting, against their own oppression none the less, is never a good look. In fact it's an extremely fecking bad look, because who the feck are you to say that? Who gave you the right to decide how they should go about it?

The driving force behind the whole movement is equality. Not that I understand what BLM has to do with anything, since (as has been explained dozens of times) taking the knee is a separate thing. But I guess seeing BLM on Sky (who are not the Premier League) gets you all riled up about black people daring to ask for equality in a way you don't approve of.
 

LovelyLittlePanda

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It doesn't bother me if they carry on taking the knee or not. I've gave me views in that it's served purpose and there needs to be a new message.

If you think i feel threatened by this, then you don't know me one bit, i hate racism of any kind. As i white person i don't feel as though i'm above anyone because of skin colour, my username is named after a black Manchester United footballer who i am a fan of what he does off the pitch and his potential on it. But your comment shows my point, if a white person speaks about racism and disagrees with how a certain group goes about things (ie BLM) then they deemed as 'racist', if you feel my point about whites doing a black power fist is like jews doing a nazi salute is wrong, then that’s fair enough, maybe it was.

But my point stands in white people making a black power fist salute and abusing people who don't hold up a fist is nuts, by all means white people should get involved (peacefully) in equality marches, but the black power fist salute is not for white people to make and it's not a gesture to make trying to promote 'equality' even for blacks.

And due to this i'm not a fan of the whole BLM movement, even though its calmed down a bit now anyway, i put the whole BLM movement down to people bored in lockdown and blowing off steam, but it was the wrong slogan anyway from the start, sends out the wrong message and they went about it in the wrong way, in an alternate reality and people felt there was black privilege and whites 2nd class people and the whole slogan was 'white lives matter' i would hate that too.

The message should be clear 'equality' something which all human beings are.
From Wikipedia:

The raised fist, or the clenched fist, is a universal symbol of solidarity and support.[1] It is also used as a salute to express unity, strength, or resistance.
I found this the best description, but you'll see similar ones everywhere.

Most of us who see the salute think of the athletes from the 1968 olympics or Nelson Mandela. The fact that you interpret a black man raising a fist as a "black power" salute says a lot. Your notion of what the "black power" movement entails is completely wrong. Only a portion of it was of the hateful kind you describe. And no it's not akin to Nazism. It would be a lot closer to Jews in 30's Germany creating a movement that advocates separatism and preaches superiority over Germans. The FBI did their best to suppress the sensible wing of the black power movement. Look up the assassination of Fred Hampton.

Also your constant mentioning of "white people abusing people who don't make the fist" is a red flag. Where did you see this, Stephen Crowder? Link please.

I guess "my favorite United player is black" is the Redcafe equivalent of "I have black friends" (Therefore I can't be racist).
 

Zexstream

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Some amazing posts in this thread, the notion that All Lives Do Not matter is racist itself.

All Lives Matter, it is as simple as that.
 

Solius

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Some amazing posts in this thread, the notion that All Lives Do Not matter is racist itself.

All Lives Matter, it is as simple as that.
Coming from you?! fecking hell. You've learned absolutely nothing.
 

Halftrack

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Some amazing posts in this thread, the notion that All Lives Do Not matter is racist itself.

All Lives Matter, it is as simple as that.
Good to see you finally coming out as a racist. It's not good to suppress your real self, and it's good for others to be able to see you for what you really are. Not that you were doing a particularly good job of hiding it, but still.
 

Solius

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How is this thread still going? Why can people not grasp the simplest of concepts?
We thought it might be best to let the great posters we have here contribute and help educate but sometimes there's lost causes I guess.
 

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Some amazing posts in this thread, the notion that All Lives Do Not matter is racist itself.

All Lives Matter, it is as simple as that.
The phrase All Lives Matter isn’t racist, it’s also not racist to not understand why that phrase misses the point of what BLM is about. If you don’t know, you don’t know.

Basically Black Lives Matter as well, is what they’re saying. That’s basically it, it’s just a reminder.
 

Halftrack

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The phrase All Lives Matter isn’t racist, it’s also not racist to not understand why that phrase misses the point of what BLM is about. If you don’t know, you don’t know.

Basically Black Lives Matter as well, is what they’re saying. That’s basically it, it’s just a reminder.
And at this point, when people go "actually All Lives Matter™" it's pretty safe to assume they're being willfully ignorant pricks.

e: it's funny how discussions about the kneeling invariably ends up with a bunch of babies crying about the big bad BLM, despite kneeling being a separate thing and the PL no longer having anything to do with the UK organisation of that name. And no matter how often this is explained to these people, they'll continue to whine about it. Because it's become semi-acceptable to malign BLM in certain circles, so by tying any anti-racism effort to the BLM movement (or identity politics, that's another bugbear) you give yourself cover to dislike and/or dismiss it.
 

SuperiorXI

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We thought it might be best to let the great posters we have here contribute and help educate but sometimes there's lost causes I guess.
I'm banging my head against a wall at how people still come out with drivel like 'all lives matter', it is as though they have been living under a rock ever since that phrase has been uttered and discussed to death... or at the very least they're wilfully ignorant.
 

Solius

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And at this point, when people go "actually All Lives Matter™" it's pretty safe to assume they're being willfully ignorant pricks.

e: it's funny how discussions about the kneeling invariably ends up with a bunch of babies crying about the big bad BLM, despite kneeling being a separate thing and the PL no longer having anything to do with the UK organisation of that name. And no matter how often this is explained to these people, they'll continue to whine about it. Because it's become semi-acceptable to malign BLM in certain circles, so by tying any anti-racism effort to the BLM movement (or identity politics, that's another bugbear) you give yourself cover to dislike and/or dismiss it.
Exactly this, and this will always be the case. This is why misinformation is originally spread about causes like this, because the more shit you throw at something the more will stick in people's minds and they then feel justified in dismissing it. Some people will just straight up fall for it but most know exactly what they're doing.
 

LovelyLittlePanda

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Some amazing posts in this thread, the notion that All Lives Do Not matter is racist itself.

All Lives Matter, it is as simple as that.
You're right.

Black lives matter as well, though.
Wrong.

This exchange reminds me of when I was 11 in history class and a kid said: "but he (Hitler) did create jobs." The teacher responded: "yes, that's true."
 

Solius

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I'm banging my head against a wall at how people still come out with drivel like 'all lives matter', it is as though they have been living under a rock ever since that phrase has been uttered and discussed to death... or at the very least they're wilfully ignorant.
The analogy about going into a breast cancer ward and declaring all cancers matter is a good one, and if that doesn't make people get the point then they're willfully choosing not to listen because their true intention was just to dismiss the movement.
 

Zlatan 7

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Exactly this, and this will always be the case. This is why misinformation is originally spread about causes like this, because the more shit you throw at something the more will stick in people's minds and they then feel justified in dismissing it. Some people will just straight up fall for it but most know exactly what they're doing.
To be fair and I’m not defending anyone specifically but it’s easy to make the mistake that the premier league still supports BLM, the taking the knee was introduced under BLM, they still take the knee and BLM banners are still in the stands and shown on tv throughout the game. I missed that the premier league changed the word to be honest and just seen it in this thread.

I don’t think people are lying or being wilfully ignorant when they say the take the knee is for BLM and to be fair, people can fairly be against the politics of the BLM organisation.

Again I know I have to clarify I’m not defending anyone and don’t have a problem with them taking the knee and obviously some are being wilfully ignorant.
 

Halftrack

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Exactly this, and this will always be the case. This is why misinformation is originally spread about causes like this, because the more shit you throw at something the more will stick in people's minds and they then feel justified in dismissing it. Some people will just straight up fall for it but most know exactly what they're doing.
Safe to assume that most are, at best, being willfully ignorant, yeah.
Wrong.

This exchange reminds me of when I was 11 in history class and a kid said: "but he (Hitler) did create jobs." The teacher responded: "yes, that's true."
I don't think @SuperiorXI is giving credence to "all lives matter", just subtly pointing out the actual meaning of the phrase Black Lives Matter.
 

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And at this point, when people go "actually All Lives Matter™" it's pretty safe to assume they're being willfully ignorant pricks.
Who knows? I ain’t gonna have a go at the guy, there’s enough of that going round as it is.
 

Wibble

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Some amazing posts in this thread, the notion that All Lives Do Not matter is racist itself.

All Lives Matter, it is as simple as that.
Do you live under a rock?

Black lives matter isn't racist at all. You don't need to say white lives matter or all lives matter because nobody thought they didn't. I have never once in my entire life thought my life didn't matter but there are daily examples of why black lives aren't as valued.

So saying that all lives matters is simply racist dogwhistling (unless you truly do live under a rock)..
 
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