Posted a source a few years ago on the caf, will try to find it. It was around the terrorist attacks in Europe that somebody bothered to look into Non-muslims being discriminated in muslim countries. Sad reading and numbers. Basically an eye-opener on how selective tolerance is these days.
As Rugby refuses to take the knee, is it time the Premier League stopped too?
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Good on them. Clearly if you want to act then you can come up with something more useful. Basically if taking a knee was the adequate method to raise awareness of social issues then players would have to take a different knee before every game till the end of the world. Instead of being abused for it clubs like them should actually be seen as sensible and assertive.
A million beheadings per year?
I thought you'd have bookmarked something so shocking. It's too easy to come up with vague numbers like that and say it was a few years ago and you don't have the details anymore. Not very credible tbh
A quick google search will give you enough to be worried I think. Just type 'Christians persecution today'. Done so now and the first thing I see is the attacks on churches (one year period) numbers.
1. China: 5,576
2. Angola: 2,000
3. Rwanda: 700
4. Myanmar: 204
5. Nigeria: 150
6. Ethiopia: 124
7. Burundi: 100
8. Mali: 100
9. Pakistan: 58
10. Burkina Faso: 50
These are confirmed ones. Multiply that by the number of each one's community.
Nigeria and Senegal notorious for forced and brutal converting, I think Victor Moses spoke about that.
1. China: 5,576
2. Angola: 2,000
3. Rwanda: 700
4. Myanmar: 204
5. Nigeria: 150
6. Ethiopia: 124
7. Burundi: 100
8. Mali: 100
9. Pakistan: 58
10. Burkina Faso: 50
These are confirmed ones. Multiply that by the number of each one's community.
Nigeria and Senegal notorious for forced and brutal converting, I think Victor Moses spoke about that.
I don't know what you're talking about. British citizens aren't on trial for Britain's crimes through history. No-one in is arguing that they should be.
Okay, with all due respect, so what? There are always bigger problems elsewhere, but we live in the UK.
Black people are 10 times more likely to be stopped and searched in the UK - 3 per 1000 if you're white, 29 per 1000 if you're black. Even if you narrow it down to just Merseyside, you're still 2.7 times more likely to be stopped than a white person. Unless your position is that black people are 10 times as likely to commit a crime in the UK [2.7 more likely in Merseyside], then you'd agree this is a problem, regardless of your own personal anecdotes.
George Floyd lived in the USA. Based on your own attitude to global events, what does that have to do with us in the U.K.
Yes i believe the 10 times more likely to be stopped stat is because of the unfortunate amount of gang activity in cities like Birmingham , London etc that involves black youths. Operation Trident was set up for a real reason and real problem that has been affecting the black community for decades.
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I tried your googling, I foundt this:
The Top 50 Countries Where It’s Hardest to Be a Christian (2020), by Christianity Today. They report numbers from the 2020 World Watch List (WWL) rapport by Open Doors, a Christian organization. According to them, 8 Christians are killed each day because of their faith, they don't mention how many of those 11 are beheadings. Other places reference the 2019 rapport, where the number is 11 per day.
I don't know anything about Open Doors or how good their rapport is, but there's quite a gap from 8-11 killings per day to thousands of beheadings.
You must be joking. Angola? 97% of the population is Christian. There are only about 80,000 Muslims in Angola. Mynamar is Budhists and are persecuting Muslims. Pakistan, yes I agree with you they do unofficially persecute non Muslims but is not an official stance. In fact a Muslim Minister was assassinated because he stood up for a persecuted non Muslim. In Nigeria it is the terror group Book Haram who has been an extremely violent group that goes on murder, rape and kidnappings. The Nigerian government is fighting them and has been fighting them for a long time.
That's your only response? Okay.
I'm all for discussing injustices happening around the globe, but it isn't in context of the discussion being had in this thread. Do you think the fight against racism in the UK is intrinsically linked to George Floyd?
BLM last year kicked off after George Floyd so yes. Whether true or not BLM will always be linked to events that occurred in the USA.
All types of people face racism in the U.K. from black and Asian, to travellers to East Europeans and South American’s.
How does BLM represent the Brazilian lady whose randomly accused of being a prostitute at customs, or the Polish who gets egg thrown at their house every week, or the Chinese person beaten up because of a virus, or the Muslim treated like a terrorist at an airport, or the Albanian who owns a business and drives a nice car but keeps getting investigated because the stereotype is he must be a drugs lord
With respect mate, I don't believe you're arguing in good faith. I have no interest in playing a game of whatabout with you.
The only one whose “good faith” can called into question is yours.
i have answered all the questions you’ve asked. You’re the one claiming to be against racism in the U.K. but seen very selective about what racism you’re against.
It’s strange to me, I’d assume someone who is against racism would be against it regardless of the race/skin colour of the victim. But you have clearly shown a disregard for matters of racism that target others groups.
Mixed feelings about “the knee“ but really, more should be done on ”social media “ to make some of these grubs accountable
Are travellers a race? I've a few mates back home who are travellers, they're either Irish or people of Irish heritage mainly. They're very very likely to have encounters with the Police, but quite often it's as they attract that attention for a reason (talking about my friends by the way not travellers as a whole before anyone gets offended).
As an ethnic minority that isn't black, I certainly identify with BLM I find it quite comforting when I see the knee being taken before PL games.
Racism is general I believe has become more acceptable in recent years with the Trump administration etc so anything which publicly counters that (including a number of the posts in this thread by the way) does go a long way in my opinion.
Next someone'll rock up to ask us why we don't care about the white genocide in South Africa.
One of my favourite past times pre-lockdown was walking down a highstreet, popping into charity shops and grilling them on why they were focused on specific issues.
"British Heart Foundation? Ever heard of the lungs??"
"Barnados... Believe in Children? What about all the adults!"
"British Heart Foundation? Ever heard of the lungs??"
"Barnados... Believe in Children? What about all the adults!"
There is no fecking way thousands of christians get beheaded everyday and we haven't heard about it. It's just impossible,what @Tomuś did by throwing numbers like that without any context is crazy to me. It trivializes such a barbaric act
It annoys racists so keep doing it.
White text on red, centre allignment and the word wrap being too large. Its as if they didnt want anybody to read it.
Yeah, it's obviously not close to true, I was just curious what kind of response I'd get.
Racism has become more prevalent in recent years due to the hyperfocus on identity. Identity politics has poisoned and tribalised society, to the point that we're more divided than at any time period in recent history.
When you have corporate conservative media posting things like this and this, while liberal media are posting things like this and this...what can it possibly lead to, other than further radicalisation of each group? Both groups feel attacked and as a result they become even more entrenched in their 'tribe'.
Encouraging people to view absolutely everything through the lens of race is going to lead to a fractured society that - shock horror - divides itself along racial lines.
Obviously social media has allowed toxic ideologies to spread like wildfire... but old media have a huge, huge degree of culpability for the current state of society.
I'm shocked that so many in here are against the kneeling pre match. It might not be the solution to get rid of racism, but it's damn good start!
It's scary that so many are hiding their racist views behind some sort of free speech and that the kneeling doesn't make any difference.
I'm done arguing and will just add those fers to my ignore list. You do not deserve anyone's time.
It's scary that so many are hiding their racist views behind some sort of free speech and that the kneeling doesn't make any difference.
I'm done arguing and will just add those fers to my ignore list. You do not deserve anyone's time.
I’m just curious what “time and effort” does it take to take the knee for 1:00 before kick off
and theyre suggesting they’ll be tackling it in other ways, they could share what those ways are? If there is any.
a bigger statement would be to stop matches and walk off when racism flares up in stadiums, but I can’t remember many clubs doing it...if they all did then I think that would be more powerful (once we are allowed back in obviously)
That would be a statement definitely. Then again, who are you going to punish with that? Definitely not the racist loons.
There's also a chance not everyone who doesn't agree with you is racist. Surely an openminded person should grasp that.
Hmm so according to your numbers 10 George Floyds are being killed EACH DAY and not once have I heard about an action to stop that, let alone doing movements and taking a knee.
I'm all for different opinions, but when it comes to racist slurs in post and real life discussions. Their opinions means f all (to me).
What do you mean by that?
It's about 30 seconds of time taken for a kneel before the match starts. To say we're aware, and together we are against it.
If this is something that you have a problem with, then I don't think it's the kneeling you find problematic.
If this is something that you have a problem with, then I don't think it's the kneeling you find problematic.
Yes let’s make all lives better and yes let’s address the class struggle, but can we address the lives which are at the biggest risk first instead of trying to draw false equivalencies?At the weekend the Irish and Scottish Rugby teams refused to take the Knee for BLM.
Surely this cringe show should now end and the silliness of millionaire footballers taking the knee before an empty stadium every week should stop.
Whilst I have sympathies with the problems in the United States I fail to see how millionaire footballers bending the knee each week does anything to help those in the States and certainly is something we have to worry about in the UK.
No matter what your view, BLM is a political Movement, I much prefer we aim to make all lives better no matter, and one thing that Rashford has highlighted in the UK is the divide between the haves and have nots regardless of colour.
I honestly believe this Premier League Wokeness needs to stop, and I fully support the Rugby Teams in taking a stand on this.
https://www.irishpost.com/news/enti...e-before-six-nations-tie-against-wales-203307
Absolutely. They do not care about the plight of black people worldwide for me. It’s a symbolic gesture that should have no impact on you the spectator.
Why does the knee offend you so much op? And this two about BLM as some kind of centralised political entity is becoming a worn-out straw man.
Quality control
I’m all for equal rights, but totally against ‘taking the knee’ and BLM.
If fans were in stadiums, the whole 'taking a knee' thing would have probably lasted a month.
Something doesn't sit right with me mimicking the actions of how a man lost his life (neck being knelt on) and rising your wrist in the air, historically a symbolic gesture for 'black power' used by groups such as black panthers who are advocates of black nationalism/black separatism/black supremacy, i.e. racist agenda towards white people.
Seeing this gesture on TV, like it’s normal (i.e. Lewis Hamilton every time he wins and after every advert on Sky Sports News) and seeing white people doing it, it’s like far right salutes becoming the norm in the 21st century or Jews all of a sudden doing a Nazi salute and how if a white person in the public eye doesn’t do it or not on board with it, it’s potentially career threatening for them and they are deemed as ‘racist’ (so pressurised into doing it whether they believe in it or).
It's like the worlds gone mad in the last year (Trump/America/covid/BLM).
If fans were in stadiums, the whole 'taking a knee' thing would have probably lasted a month.
Something doesn't sit right with me mimicking the actions of how a man lost his life (neck being knelt on) and rising your wrist in the air, historically a symbolic gesture for 'black power' used by groups such as black panthers who are advocates of black nationalism/black separatism/black supremacy, i.e. racist agenda towards white people.
Seeing this gesture on TV, like it’s normal (i.e. Lewis Hamilton every time he wins and after every advert on Sky Sports News) and seeing white people doing it, it’s like far right salutes becoming the norm in the 21st century or Jews all of a sudden doing a Nazi salute and how if a white person in the public eye doesn’t do it or not on board with it, it’s potentially career threatening for them and they are deemed as ‘racist’ (so pressurised into doing it whether they believe in it or).
It's like the worlds gone mad in the last year (Trump/America/covid/BLM).
Now that's a response I didn't see coming, I'll give you that! I'm very confused.
1. "According to by numbers" sort of (but maybe not) implies that you believe them. If you do then you have gone overnight from living in a world where millions (!) of Christians were beheaded (!) every single year (!) to a world where 2-3 000 are killed. 2-3 000 people are still a lot of people, and the deaths are all tradegies, but compared to what you believed we're talking the equivalevent of one Armeinan genocide dissappeared every single year. This must be a huge relief for you, yet you don't even acknowledge it.
2. Ok, so now you're doing this weird tactic both to deflect from your numbers and to attack Black Lives Matter; because George Floyd was one person then events killing more than one person are worse, and therefore those events are more important, and therefore these are more valid targets for movements. Or, something like that. But, this is a line of argument you very probably don't believe in yourself, so why offer it?
When you brought up Christians being killed, did you do that just because you'd like people to stop focusing on racism or because you'd like people to focus on Christians? Because if it's the latter then other things kill a lot more than 8-11 people per day.
So Martial has been racially abused on social media again. Are we saying this is united "fans" being racist or just rival fans trying to unsettle him so it's OK as the OP suggests? This is why we taking the knee is still happening to remind people that in 2021 people are still being racially abused. United's last 4 bad results have ended with our players being the subject of racial abuse.
Would imagine this has been happening after every bad game. Players are more open to sharing it now, due to the conversations that are being had. Not sure how much of that is down to BLM, but it can’t be a coincidence.
Exactly, and the conversation is being had because of the recent BLM protests which taking the knee is part of. It should continue until the players want to stop.
The attention it now gets probably gives further incentive to some of the sick people sending the abuse. Stricter moderation of social media platforms is the only solution I see to this. As long as people can post this stuff online without any serious repercussions it will continue.
I'm done discussing this in detail in this thread, but to point a few idiocies here:
- Taking a knee started with Colin Kaepernick doing it in the NFL during the US anthem in response to police violence against Black people in the US. He started doing that way before George Floyd's murder. The act is unrelated as such.
- Kneeling in the EPL is no longer in support of BLM; it has been for the EPL's own anti-racism campaign since September.
- It's quite sickening to see you compare the nazi salute, which is related to genocide, to taking a knee, which is to promote racial equity.
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