Ashes I - 2013 - In England

[ghaliboy]

Well, Cricket Australia has just pulled off another masterstroke. Sacking the coach on the eve of the Ashes. Look forward to getting completely drilled by England but you never know. These lads might magically grow a ticker and play well. But I doubt it.

Didn't see an Ashes thread so feck this off Mod's if there is one already.

 

[ha_rooney]

can't believe they did that at this time.

A new coach, a fairly inexperienced side (especially batting), off the field issues and England in decent form. Weather permitting, the first series should really be a comfortable win for England, at least 3-1.

 

[ghaliboy]

Even the bowling is pretty rough around the edges. Pattinson/Starc/Faulkner and Bird all inexperienced. The batting is brittle as feck. Ugh it's gonna be a cluster feck I can see it. Said to my mate "any game that Phil Hughes is playing in the Ashes I am not watching.."

So hopefully I get to watch all of the games.

 

[KM]

Lehmann comes up with a pretty good reputation. Although the timing is horrible. If they wanted to sack him, they should've done it when Aussies lost 4-0.

 

[Donaldo]

The Aussies are turning into a joke team...I do hope they beat England, purely for the consternation it would cause them.

 

[Utd heap]

In the 90's we were a shambles and got no sympathy, so feck them - hope it finishes 5-0 and they end up with multiple resignations.

 

[ghaliboy]

Lehmann comes up with a pretty good reputation. Although the timing is horrible. If they wanted to sack him, they should've done it when Aussies lost 4-0.

For sure. But it's the same dilemma. Do you sack him before the Chammpions Trophy.. It probably should have been then but with him going on and coaching for the CT why the flying feck you'd sack him is anyones guess. Absolutely bizarre but the gonks at Cricket Australia have shown over the last 5 years they have no fecking idea.

In the 90's we were a shambles and got no sympathy, so feck them - hope it finishes 5-0 and they end up with multiple resignations.

For sure. I started watching Cricket when I was 5 years old in 1990/91. The Benson and Hedges series and we drilled England and NZ. Jones, Marsh, Taylor, Boony and the young Waugh twins. They were cricketers you looked at and went. "These are some fecking good cricketers." When you look at our team at the moment I just go.. These are a bunch of fecking spastic athletes who have a bit of cricket ability. (Bar maybe Clarke.)

Gone are the days of Bob Simpson telling the Waugh brothers to fecking stay on the paddock to do slips and fielding practice until 11pm at night 4 hours after training finished because they dicked around.

I still remember the 6 O'Donnell hit into the Churchill stand the second teir 3 rows back. A fecking enormous hit and in those days with bats that picked up tree trunks but hit like drift wood. A bit like Football these days. Men you respected when you were young but now are a bunch of little panzies who moan about not enough money.

But I digress. I've never really known anything but what I grew up with since 1990 and looking at it now.. 'How the feck did it get to this!?'

 

[Nighteyes]

I expect Australia to get hammered 5-0.

The bowling is young but talented where as the batting is just pure unadulterated shit

 

[Tabata]

The administrators didn't really think this one through. A one sided back to back Ashes event is going to be a disaster for Test Cricket.

Maybe that's what they wanted? I wonder how long til 20-20 is the only form of Cricket.

 

[Tabata]

'How the feck did it get to this!?'

The answer is because Cricket has been on a long slow death for a while now in Australia. It just can't compete with many other sports for the young minds.

It's almost dead at grassroots. It will be a minority sport within a generation.

 

[Ole's_toe_poke]

This is by far the worst Australian batting lineup to tour England in my lifetime. When you think back to the days when someone like Gilchrist would come in at no.7, and compare it to now its quite incredible how far they've slid.

I think Australia has some good pace bowlers and they might be able to win a test for Australia. But I can't see them winning the series at all.

Quite a reversal from the 90s.

 

[Dargonk]

The answer is because Cricket has been on a long slow death for a while now in Australia. It just can't compete with many other sports for the young minds.

It's almost dead at grassroots. It will be a minority sport within a generation.

Yep, I can't see it getting to much better long term for us. Cricket has just slide down the pecking order with the younger generation, so the number of quality players are not coming through.

 

[ghaliboy]

This is by far the worst Australian batting lineup to tour England in my lifetime. When you think back to the days when someone like Gilchrist would come in at no.7, and compare it to now its quite incredible how far they've slid.

I think Australia has some good pace bowlers and they might be able to win a test for Australia. But I can't see them winning the series at all.

Our batting is woeful. All flat track bullies that have grown up on roads just slaying off the back foot through point and planting the front stool and trying to slap the shit out of the ball. There isn't a grafter in that side. Even Clarke is dismissable early.

Our bowling is on a knife edge. There is no key experience for the new blokes. Starc is a white ball bowler and has no craft for test cricket. Bird is predominantly a seamer but 'can' bowl swing effectively. Siddle is a fecking meathead who just charges in and hits the deck hard and only recently worked out that he won't get towled as much if he doesn't bowl short and Pattinson and Harris are somewhat the same. Effective deck hitters but not crafters that can get wickets. I expect Harris to get an injury at any time along with Watson. There is no craft in our bowling lineup at all. It's all run in and throw it down and see what happens.

If Chris Rogers doesn't play in the first test it will be an absolute travesty. Nick Maddinson scores a big score at more than a run a ball and Smith gets the call up. Don't even get me started on the intricacies and stupidity of the CA contracting system. It's a fecking hopeless joke all round.

 

[Tabata]

Our batting is woeful. All flat track bullies that have grown up on roads just slaying off the back foot through point and planting the front stool and trying to slap the shit out of the ball. There isn't a grafter in that side. Even Clarke is dismissable early.

Our bowling is on a knife edge. There is no key experience for the new blokes. Starc is a white ball bowler and has no craft for test cricket. Bird is predominantly a seamer but 'can' bowl swing effectively. Siddle is a fecking meathead who just charges in and hits the deck hard and only recently worked out that he won't get towled as much if he doesn't bowl short and Pattinson and Harris are somewhat the same. Effective deck hitters but not crafters that can get wickets. I expect Harris to get an injury at any time along with Watson. There is no craft in our bowling lineup at all. It's all run in and throw it down and see what happens.

If Chris Rogers doesn't play in the first test it will be an absolute travesty. Nick Maddinson scores a big score at more than a run a ball and Smith gets the call up. Don't even get me started on the intricacies and stupidity of the CA contracting system. It's a fecking hopeless joke all round.

I don't know why you're getting so worked up about it. Why bother? It's over. Cricket's pretty much done in Australia. The younger generation just don't care about the sport. Things change over time. That's life.

 

[ghaliboy]

I don't know why you're getting so worked up about it. Why bother? It's over. Cricket's pretty much done in Australia. The younger generation just don't care about the sport. Things change over time. That's life.

Actually intake numbers at junior level (in NSW anyway) are at their highest levels ever. I am not sure if it's any larger per cap with the actual increase of population but generally at grass-roots level Cricket here in NSW is booming according to the districts the metro and the NSWDCA.

These kids aren't being taught a skill anymore. They are being taught to be an athlete and then they turn into one dimensional cricketers without a cricket brain. Like Phil Hughes and his back foot slapping and getting trapped on the crease trying to swipe across the line if it's not at waist height outside off stump. Shane Watson and his thumping his front stool down the track and slaying through the line. The actual cricketers with talent that are growing up that may not be the best athletes in the world are being overlooked as 'not in the right interests' as they aren't sublime athletes who are never going to get injured.

George Bailey is another candidate for the shocking policies of CA. He is a bit of a grafter with a pretty solid technique and would be a test player any day of the week. Gets shunted to T20 captain, is absolutely terrible at going the slog and then doesn't even get a sniff near the test team overlooked for spastics like Hughes.

I am passionate about cricket mate. Always have been.

 

[Tabata]

Actually intake numbers at junior level (in NSW anyway) are at their highest levels ever. I am not sure if it's any larger per cap with the actual increase of population but generally at grass-roots level Cricket here in NSW is booming according to the districts the metro and the NSWDCA.

Junior participation numbers aren't going up, they're going down across the country. The people in charge like to fudge the numbers because they think saying it is booming will somehow make it boom. Truth be told Australian kids are turning away from the sport and they don't have a clue how to fix it.

That's why CA have made such a big deal out of the Big Bash League. They're trying to get kids interested in Cricket. Test Cricket isn't really going to do that with the younger generations anymore. I don't see Test Cricket being that relevant in Australia in say 15 or 20 years time.

It's best not to get worked up about something that is out of your control.

 

[ghaliboy]

Junior participation numbers aren't going up, they're going down across the country. The people in charge like to fudge the numbers because they think saying it is booming will somehow make it boom. Truth be told Australian kids are turning away from the sport and they don't have a clue how to fix it.

You're talking bollocks here. I was actually wrong there wasn't a "significant" increase, just a small one. But an increase in general.

That's why CA have made such a big deal out of the Big Bash League. They're trying to get kids interested in Cricket. Test Cricket isn't really going to do that with the younger generations anymore. I don't see Test Cricket being that relevant in Australia in say 15 or 20 years time.

The Big Bash league is a cash injection project to generate bums on seats and revenue. Any supplementary growth is merely because it's the quickest and 'most entertaining' (i don't think so anyway) form of cricket that gets people through the doors. 2/3 games a week (combining the franchises) is vital to grow the funds in the coffers of NSW/Aus (all states) cricket. Test matches come up what 5 to 10 times in a summer? (at least one big series plus ODI's) That's hardly a massive revenue raiser and with live coverage beaming around the world the people through the door is going to diminish in general because the match day experience is completely different to the living room one. Like all sports really.

It's best not to get worked up about something that is out of your control.

The useless cnuts in England could start by winning the Ashes back and I bet it has a positive effect on Cricket in Aus in general. The vibe is 'These overpaid wankers getting their arses handed to them' is not a good look for any nation in any sport.

 

[Tabata]

You're talking bollocks here. I was actually wrong there wasn't a "significant" increase, just a small one. But an increase in general.

You should try and get a job with CA if you believe in that kind of spin.

The useless cnuts in England could start by winning the Ashes back and I bet it has a positive effect on Cricket in Aus in general. The vibe is 'These overpaid wankers getting their arses handed to them' is not a good look for any nation in any sport.

Yeah but they more than likely won't will they? Not only are they going to lose one series they going to lose two in less than 6 months. I'm sure this will have a marvellous positive effect on Cricket which is already at an all time low in Australia.

If the administrators in Australia wanted to feck off Test Cricket then they are going by it the right way when they agreed to a 10 Ashes matches wankfest. I wonder how many they will turn off the sport in the next 6 months? A lot a bet.

 

[ghaliboy]

You should try and get a job with CA if you believe in that kind of spin.

Knob head. It's from the NSW Cricket annual report. A 0.6% increase in junior participation.

Yeah but they more than likely won't will they? Not only are they going to lose one series they going to lose two in less than 6 months. I'm sure this will have a marvellous positive effect on Cricket which is already at an all time low in Australia.

They are definitely the underdogs. But I have never had this strange feeling of 'we're in terrible shape but you fecking watch.. These gumbies will come out and play blinders and we'll be stuck for the next 10 years with them'. Usually it's "we're gonna win", or "it'll be tough, can't see us winning tbh".

But with all this shit. Warner and that bullshit, Watson and his shite and the coach that .. I dunno I just get this bizarre feeling of 'these cnuts will just win it.. won't they'. Not sure where it's coming from.

Clarke has hardly hit a ball on tour, the quicks are inexperienced and they are not picking players that are doing well over there. Plus half the hopefuls play little to no County cricket which used to be one of the big things for an Aussie player to go over and belt the English in England for a bit in the off season.

If the administrators in Australia wanted to feck off Test Cricket then they are going by it the right way when they agreed to a 10 Ashes matches wankfest. I wonder how many they will turn off the sport in the next 6 months? A lot a bet.

Oh I am not arguing with that. Everything is gearing toward T20 and that but I thought not long ago 'T20 has done one thing good and that has lifted physical intensity of most of the nations when it comes to ground/out fielding, running between the wickets and bowling short spells' but on the other hand it teaches you to slog and 'who cares we lose if we slog and lose wickets the games over on the back of 3 for shit chasing 150 in 20 overs.' But I absolutely loathe it as the flagship representation of what cricket is. Because it really really isn't.

Our domestic juniors here still play 30 (u11-14), 40 (u15-16) and 50 (u17-19) overs at representative level in the district and metro comps? And it's seeping slowly into grade/shires the whole T20 but having played shires and grade I honestly didn't enjoy it all that much and the general vibe is that the players prefer the 50 over shirt and 90 over full day formats.

My Mrs still says to me "why do you stand out there for 7 hours? What's the point..."

If Aus can win these two Ashes series on the back of hard work and back against the wall stuff.... Maybe it can turn aroudn but like you said getting smoked twice in a row will probably put another nail in the coffin.

 

[Liam147]

I've been pretty accurate with score predictions for the Ashes, and this is a nailed on England win. I'd go with 3-1 purely because whitewashing the Aussies - however bad they are - doesn't seem possible, and our weather will surely force at least one draw.

I'm not as excited for this one as I have been previously, simply because I barely see them offering proper competition, and it being something of a walkover.

 

[Tabata]

Knob head. It's from the NSW Cricket annual report. A 0.6% increase in junior participation..

All you've come up with is NSW (which are hardly great anyhow), what about the rest. The numbers are fudged man. They all do it. It's not great PR to come out and say your junior participation numbers are shit is it? Cricket is a flat out dying sport in Australia. They know it, everyone who doesn't have their heads in the sand knows it.

Oh I am not arguing with that. Everything is gearing toward T20 and that but I thought not long ago 'T20 has done one thing good and that has lifted physical intensity of most of the nations when it comes to ground/out fielding, running between the wickets and bowling short spells' but on the other hand it teaches you to slog and 'who cares we lose if we slog and lose wickets the games over on the back of 3 for shit chasing 150 in 20 overs.' But I absolutely loathe it as the flagship representation of what cricket is. Because it really really isn't.

Our domestic juniors here still play 30 (u11-14), 40 (u15-16) and 50 (u17-19) overs at representative level in the district and metro comps? And it's seeping slowly into grade/shires the whole T20 but having played shires and grade I honestly didn't enjoy it all that much and the general vibe is that the players prefer the 50 over shirt and 90 over full day formats.

My Mrs still says to me "why do you stand out there for 7 hours? What's the point..."

If Aus can win these two Ashes series on the back of hard work and back against the wall stuff.... Maybe it can turn aroudn but like you said getting smoked twice in a row will probably put another nail in the coffin.

Any future Cricket has in Australia lies with 20-20. Test Cricket and the Ashes will be irrelevant in Australia in a generation or two IMO.

 

[ghaliboy]

All you've come up with is NSW (which are hardly great anyhow), what about the rest. The numbers are fudged man. They all do it. It's not great PR to come out and say your junior participation numbers are shit is it? Cricket is a flat out dying sport in Australia. They know it, everyone who doesn't have their heads in the sand knows it.

fecking hell.

NSW currently makes up 10/15 players in the current Australian (Ashes) squad. Of course it represents a huge market, it's one of the biggest cricket catchment areas in the country. (edit: Actually it is the biggest.... I think..)

Take it from someone who has done research on it and has an active participation with the NSWDCA through being a NSWCUA member and an accredited umpire at state and district level. Someone who has played just shy of state level for NSW. Don't sit there and go 'nup, nah man cause everyone knows it bra.. Of course its true bru.. head in the sand bru' I've told you the facts and the stats from NSW to support the argument that there is an increase so you can stick it up your arse as far as I am concerned. Even if you want to pluck a 'number dodgied' conspiracy theory completely from your ringhole. Go ahead.

To what end the MILO in2CRICKET facts report even support that but I'll go as far as saying that getting the 3-8's into cricket is important but you probably wouldn't have a huge grip on the intake in terms of getting kids through the door to play through the junior systems to close to state level but then again maybe 30-50 in every state in a generation will go on to represent at state level. It's like that for a lot of domestic Australian sports.

Any future Cricket has in Australia lies with 20-20. Test Cricket and the Ashes will be irrelevant in Australia in a generation or two IMO.

A fair opinion but a sport as iconic as cricket has been with the success through the late 80's, 90's and early/mid 00's, I can't see test cricket dying out completely at all. Especially since the country always backs a winner.

 

[NinjaFletch]

Well with Compton dropped for the warm up against Essex it looks like Root will open for the Ashes.

I think thats harsh on Compton, I think he’s been ok so far in his test career with one good series, a bad one and a mediocre one.

It also brings Bairstow into play who has a load of potential but his start to his Test Career is similar to, and arguably worse than, Compton's with no Century's and a similar average from one more game.

Also question marks over Root against the new ball in his test career so far, I think he'll hammer out those issues long term but if he fails short term what do England do? Stick with him and afford him time they didn't to Compton or switch to another option?

I'm not sure that

Cook Root Trott Pietersen Bell Bairstow Prior

is that much stronger than

Cook Compton Trott Pietersen Root Bell Prior

To necessitate the change.

 

[zing]

Cowan, Watson, Rogers, Khawaja, Clarke, Warner, Haddin, Pattinson, Starc, Lyon, Harris

I would love to see this team. Rogers seems like he knows English conditions. Khawaja, for me, is world class potentially.

Warner would be good at #6, as he plays spin more than well.

The bowling is awesome, except for Lyon.

Rotate Harris out with Siddle and Jackson Bird.

 

[zing]

I think ghaliboy is excessively negative.

The bowling is world class. Pattinson is not "hit the deck and hope somethiing happens", nor is Starc. Siddle, yes.

 

[crappycraperson]

You overrate the Oz team massively, zing. They will be lucky to avoid a white wash here. Khawaja seems to be Oz's Rohit Sharma, every one is convinced he is WC but yet he rarely delivers. Some one like Starc may trouble Indians but I doubt he is going to be a big threat to an in form English side. Even some like Watson has not graduated to be a good test batsman.

 

[zing]

Watson, yea, he's an issue.

Also, I really hope they don't start with Hughes. Inverarity has some bizarre preferences.

 

[ghaliboy]

The bowling is world class. Pattinson is not "hit the deck and hope somethiing happens", nor is Starc. Siddle, yes.

It's just not at all.

Pattinson has wicket taking ability, yeah it's probably harsh to say that but he's not a swing bowler or a crafty bowler. Starc is a swing bowler who just cannot for some reason swing the red new ball on a dime.

Look at Jimmy Anderson if you want to see world class swing bowling. Starc can barely control it and when he's not bowling line and length dictated by the captain and being told to go over or around the wicket he's near useless. Just bowls full and wide slappable shit that Bell and co will gobble up.

The bowling is so rhythmless and combinationless that I really struggle to see how you can perceive it as 'world class'.

Bird can be something special though. Tight line and length like McGrath.. 'can' swing it like I said but is not a predominantly swing-the-ball bowler. Harris and Watson are sicknotes waiting to happen imo.

@your team list
Watson should never bat top order he's just not un-dismissable enough.
I'd love to see Khawaja and Rogers and I hope to feck that Rogers plays in the first test.
We lack the level of keeper batsman with Haddin and Wade. Wades glovework is shocking and Haddin's is a lot better but they both are not great with the bat. Stable enough but not great.
Warner is the golden boy and will never be dropped. I like him at the top order he just needs to get rid of his yips and go back to smashing the shit out of the ball no matter what. If he's not then get rid of him he's pointless.
Cowan is so one dimensional slow that he totally messes up the balance. Need a confident right hander if they get rid of either. Left Right combination always for me when chosing an opening combination.

 

[peterstorey]

Well with Compton dropped for the warm up against Essex it looks like Root will open for the Ashes.

I think that's harsh on Compton, I think he’s been ok so far in his test career with one good series, a bad one and a mediocre one.

Root's 22 and rose to the challenge while Compton shrivelled.

 

[ghaliboy]

http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2013/content/current/story/645441.html

Watson will open says Boof.

Ok well that means either Warner or Cowan will be dropped/moved. Warner may not even play.

Also pretty much puts an end to Watson bowling at all. His knack of taking a wicket will be missed. But if he is gonna open then he can't bowl since he will likely crock.

 

[NinjaFletch]

Root's 22 and rose to the challenge while Compton shrivelled.

Of course,

but Root has done nothing at the top of the order and when you compare Compton to Bairstow its far less clear cut.

 

[KM]

Lehmann's appointment has given more excitement to this series. As I said before, he's very, very highly regarded by people who know the game.

Aussies bowling is very good. Pattinson is potentially world class. I just hope Cummins get back fit(Cue for Ghaliboy to tell me that he'll never be fit ).
I haven't seen Khwaja play but seems like Lehmann is a big fan of him.

 

[Nighteyes]

The Australian batting struggled again swing of Kumar in India. I would hate to see what Anderson will do to them

 

[zing]

Bhuavenshwar Kumar took 6 wickets in 4 matches. What are you talking about?

 

[KM]

The Australian batting struggled again swing of Kumar in India. I would hate to see what Anderson will do to them

No It was Jadeja and Ashwin that tormented them on slow pitches.

Having said that if the pitches are like what we saw in Champions Trophy, then Swann will have a field day.

 

[Nighteyes]

I am not saying Kumar ripped them apart but they clearly struggled to deal with Kumar when he bowled with the new ball

 

[zing]

Why did he take only 6 wickets then in 4 matches?

 

[Nighteyes]

Because he only bowled about 40 overs in the entire series and not all of them with the new ball

 

[Tabata]

A fair opinion but a sport as iconic as cricket has been with the success through the late 80's, 90's and early/mid 00's, I can't see test cricket dying out completely at all. Especially since the country always backs a winner.

Well they won't be having anyone to back for awhile then will they? Considering Cricket is well below the pecking order for young Australian sportsmen nowadays and the whole system from First Class to Grassroots is fecked beyond repair.

That's what they all say though; "ahh Cricket’s too iconic to die" "nahh they've been saying that for years, test cricket will never die". Well it is dying. Things change, the Australian sport landscape has changed and continues to change. Cricket (Test/First Class) has lost Australia IMO.

Lehmann's appointment has given more excitement to this series.

This is one of the main reasons the move was made. James Sutherland is under a shitload of pressure. Dropping Arthur like that is his last roll of the dice to keep his job. He's trying to improve the chances slightly that they won't get as badly beaten now and also try and create some positive vibes before the series starts.

It's all pretty pathetic stuff. If you wanted more proof why Cricket is dying in the ass in Australia you don't have to look much further when it is run by an inept organisation like Cricket Australia who has administrators like Sutherland who are only in it to make a buck for themselves.

 

[Ole's_toe_poke]

Cricket was supposedly "dying" in England in the 90s. It's always doom and gloom when you are losing.

Cricket is well behind Football in England and yet we've managed to produce a good team. A particular sport doesn't have to be the most popular for it to still be relevant and for you to produce a good team. If that was the case then India would have dominated the sport for the last 30 odd years as it is the most popular sport over there.

Cricket Australia just needs to do a better job of developing the youngsters who are interested and have talent.

Funnily England have copied some of the CA's ideas with regards to central contracts and other training methods to improve themselves.