Assists...

[Rozay]

When did everyone start giving such a shit? I’m just gone 30 so not that old really, but I remember when growing up, nobody cared about this stuff. Strikers are now being rated by ‘goal involvements’ or ‘G+A’ stats.

In my younger days, a great pass was always praised. If it led to a goal, fantastic, but you were just praised for the quality of your play. Now the first thing I hear is ‘he’ll get an assist for that’ for any old touch. I think it’s a bit of a BS metric personally. The other week, Pogba got an assist against Brighton when his miscued shot was headed in by Greenwood. ‘Back in the day’ - it would have just been seen for what it was, and nobody would be using Pogba’s involvement in that goal as a means of praise.

I feel like Arsenal fans are responsible for taking this to a new level, as they attempted to make assists the new goals after they signed Mesut Ozil. Beckham was a brilliant crosser. That was pretty much established. At the time though, I don’t recall such a fuss about the amount of them that ended in goals.

 

[laughtersassassin]

You can score a shit goal, you can get a shit assist.

You can score a great goal, you can get a great assist.

It's no different tbh

 

[roonster09]

Game evolves and the way the stats are used also evolves. Key passes, chances created was also not a thing during Beckham playing days, doesn't mean they are not a good stat. Wouldn't even start about xG, xA and other advanced stats.

Assists are good stat, like every other stat sometimes player get credit for just squaring the ball instead of the player who did all the hard work but same is true for goals too, player can beat 10 opponent player and then square the ball to other player with open goal, the player who scored gets the credit when it's the player who assisted did all the work.

Like every other stat, this is something that should be used along with what you watch, instead of just as a number on some website.

Also I dont think this has anything to do with Arsenal fans, Ozil assist stats was a thing even when he was at Arsenal and it was a thing even when Nani was playing for us.

 

[Tarrou]

football has variance in all the stats

for some reason assists is the only one where that seems to bother people

 

[diarm]

Assists were always praised. Players like Beckham, Pirez, Giggs, Overmars, Bergkamp, Fabregas, Alonso and Scholes were always talked about for their ability to assist.

 

[Rozay]

You can score a shit goal, you can get a shit assist.

You can score a great goal, you can get a great assist.

It's no different tbh

I did think about that. But I also see it as a false equivalent. Goals are obviously directly recorded on the scoreline of a match. It isn’t necessary to record a metric for who passed the ball as much as you need to keep record of the goals. ‘Who scored the goal?’ is a far more relevant question than ‘how did the ball reach him?’. I personally don’t think that should matter unless common sense tells you that it actually matters.

 

[Cascarino]

I’m a fan of the creative type where assists are their main currency.
So the greater onus on them is fine by me. You’re right though that it’s not a particularly telling stat as an assist can be unintentional or a 5 yard pass that leads to a 30 yard screamer.

Stats like key chances per 90 can be a better indicator, but even that tends to be filled with the players who take set pieces.

If there was more onus on assists when I played I’d have had more credit, I was like Mozart when it came to heading the ball down for the little guy to run on too. In this era I’d get my dues.

 

[Tarrou]

the main reason people started talking about them more is probably fantasy football

 

[Spaghetti]

It’s pretty bs. I wouldn’t take much notice of it, but I wouldn’t get wound up by it, either.

 

[Rozay]

Assists were always praised. Players like Beckham, Pirez, Giggs, Overmars, Bergkamp, Fabregas, Alonso and Scholes were always talked about for their ability to assist.

Nah. They were spoken about for their ability to pass. Which is correct. You have picked players who have high quality passing ability, which is a part of the game to be praised no doubt. But if you did not, then that part of your game was not really celebrated. I don’t ever recall a ‘random footballer x is neck and neck with Beckham for assists going into the final stretch of the season’. Because it was just obviously nonsensical to try and mention their ability to pass in comparison.

The great passers and great passes were hailed. Gary Neville got a lot of praise as he was a brilliant crosser. It was often spoken about as an underrated part of Shearer’s game. But the numbers didn’t seem to matter as much. The point was always that these players are brilliant at passing and crossing. If you were not, then nobody would be making a fuss about how many times you touched the ball second to last, or whether you were the one fouled for a pen etc.

 

[OL29]

Game evolves and the way the stats are used also evolves. Key passes, chances created was also not a thing during Beckham playing days, doesn't mean they are not a good stat. Wouldn't even start about xG, xA and other advanced stats.

Assists are good stat, like every other stat sometimes player get credit for just squaring the ball instead of the player who did all the hard work but same is true for goals too, player can beat 10 opponent player and then square the ball to other player with open goal, the player who scored gets the credit when it's the player who assisted did all the work.

Like every other stat, this is something that should be used along with what you watch, instead of just as a number on some website.

Also I dont think this has anything to do with Arsenal fans, Ozil assist stats was a thing even when he was at Arsenal and it was a thing even when Nani was playing for us.

Yeah agreed, assist stats have been a thing for a long time, I’m about the same age as the OP and I remember having the 1999 season review on video as a kid and they highlight our top 3 assist makers on that if I’m not mistaken, and that was released 20 years ago. And Fabregas was lauded at Arsenal for his assists too from a young age, that’s when I first recall it becoming a real topic.
I think they’re a useful stat to be honest, sure they’re sometimes misused but the most creative players tend to lead the assists chart so it seems to be pretty reflective.

 

[NoLogo]

Not sure but I think assist and scorer statistics were part of the statistics in "Kicker" since the late 90s, early 2000s. Doesn't seem a new thing for me at all.

New things only seem to be stats like xG and xA and stuff like packing rate, at least for a while that was a thing, but assists have been around since forever I feel.

 

[roonster09]

Yeah agreed, assist stats have been a thing for a long time, I’m about the same age as the OP and I remember having the 1999 season review in video as a kid and they highlight our top 3 assist makers on that if I’m not mistaken, and that was released 20 years ago. And Fabregas was lauded at Arsenal for his assists too from a young age, that’s when I first recall it becoming a real topic.
I think they’re a useful statement that the to be honest, sure they’re sometimes misused but the most creative players tend to lead the assists chart so it seems to be pretty reflective.

Yeah forgot about Fabgregas. He was hailed as genius for the assists he used to make (well he was going by his passing too). Also IIRC (also like you said) in 1999 season review they mentioned about Yorke and Beckham's assists tally.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

the main reason people started talking about them more is probably fantasy football

Ha! True. I remember playing Yahoo Fantasy Football and Muzzy Izzet was the assist master. Before that it was always a word I only ever associated with yank sports like ice hockey.

 

[Verminator]

the main reason people started talking about them more is probably fantasy football

Is the answer.
At least, that is when the stat seemed to become more important than acknowledging quality.

 

[Dancfc]

It does need redefining.

For example earlier in the season Tammy did a dummy to Havertz who proceeded to score but the former didn't get the assist because he didn't touch the ball.

Or City's goal against us, Jesus was the one who made the key contribution yet Aguero technically got the assist despite miscontrolling the ball and it luckily falling to Sterling.

 

[jus2nang]

When did everyone start giving such a shit? I’m just gone 30 so not that old really, but I remember when growing up, nobody cared about this stuff. Strikers are now being rated by ‘goal involvements’ or ‘G+A’ stats.

In my younger days, a great pass was always praised. If it led to a goal, fantastic, but you were just praised for the quality of your play. Now the first thing I hear is ‘he’ll get an assist for that’ for any old touch. I think it’s a bit of a BS metric personally. The other week, Pogba got an assist against Brighton when his miscued shot was headed in by Greenwood. ‘Back in the day’ - it would have just been seen for what it was, and nobody would be using Pogba’s involvement in that goal as a means of praise.

I feel like Arsenal fans are responsible for taking this to a new level, as they attempted to make assists the new goals after they signed Mesut Ozil. Beckham was a brilliant crosser. That was pretty much established. At the time though, I don’t recall such a fuss about the amount of them that ended in goals.

It's always been a thing and not associated with any set of fans or any player. It's not something that Arsenal fans have just made up. Loads of players were known for assists, Beckham included. In fact Beckham was known for his assists as much as any Arsenal player be it Bergkamp, Fabregas or Özil.

There's probably more focus these days on stats in general but the idea of recognising assists is not new at all.

As others have pointed out, you can score scrappy, debatable or easy goals too. I remember Kane getting a goal for the ball whistling past his body.

Overall, if a player has a particularly high number of assists, he's probably doing something right.

 

[Eugenius]

I think it's more that you have more accurate stats now in general (Opta et al) and a lot more column inches, broadcast time and podcasts to fill.

 

[OleBoiii]

Sure, some assists are just regular passes followed by a goal, but not in most cases. The average assist is neither less impressive nor less important than the average goal.

A great assist is generally more impressive than a great goal, imo. When I played football I was always more happy when I assisted than when I scored. The precision and timing involved in a perfect through ball or lob over the defence is so satisfying to pull off.

 

[Pexbo]

When did everyone start giving such a shit? I’m just gone 30 so not that old really, but I remember when growing up, nobody cared about this stuff. Strikers are now being rated by ‘goal involvements’ or ‘G+A’ stats.

In my younger days, a great pass was always praised. If it led to a goal, fantastic, but you were just praised for the quality of your play. Now the first thing I hear is ‘he’ll get an assist for that’ for any old touch. I think it’s a bit of a BS metric personally. The other week, Pogba got an assist against Brighton when his miscued shot was headed in by Greenwood. ‘Back in the day’ - it would have just been seen for what it was, and nobody would be using Pogba’s involvement in that goal as a means of praise.

I feel like Arsenal fans are responsible for taking this to a new level, as they attempted to make assists the new goals after they signed Mesut Ozil. Beckham was a brilliant crosser. That was pretty much established. At the time though, I don’t recall such a fuss about the amount of them that ended in goals.

I’m 34 and idolised Beckham when I was in my early teams and can definitely remember his assist stats being a big thing even in the late 90s. They were definitely a thing in the 00s when he was feeding Ruud.

 

[Rozay]

It's always been a thing and not associated with any set of fans or any player. It's not something that Arsenal fans have just made up. Loads of players were known for assists, Beckham included. In fact Beckham was known for his assists as much as any Arsenal player be it Bergkamp, Fabregas or Özil.

There's probably more focus these days on stats in general but the idea of recognising assists is not new at all.

As others have pointed out, you can score scrappy, debatable or easy goals too. I remember Kane getting a goal for the ball whistling past his body.

Overall, if a player has a particularly high number of assists, he's probably doing something right.

I didn’t say the Gooners invented assists, they existed before - I’m saying that nobody gave as much of a shit. People always gave a shit about a great assist or great pass of course, but not so much about the stats.

As @Pogue Mahone mentioned, I always saw it as American sports lingo.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

The generation is definitely far too obsessed with G and A. Excellence exists elsewhere too.

 

[11101]

It's always been a thing but it wasn't counted as much before. I far prefer chances created anyway. You could play the world's greatest 50 yard outside of the boot pass but if it lands at the feet of Emile Heskey, you won't get an assist for it.

 

[Rozay]

I’m 34 and idolised Beckham when I was in my early teams and can definitely remember his assist stats being a big thing even in the late 90s. They were definitely a thing in the 00s when he was feeding Ruud.

Perhaps, but again - he was great at assisting. This is David Beckham. I agree that there was a fuss about the goals he was creating. But I don’t remember anyone caring how many Ruud created himself, although he must have created a few given the area of the pitch he played in. It wasn’t so much ‘goal involvements’. I think if he was a particularly brilliant passer, like Henry - then there would have been talk about that side of his game. It just didn’t seem to be such a numbers race back then. I remember Henry setting a record for it and it was praised.

Basically, I never saw anyone who wasn’t a great passer being spoken about regarding assists. Yet every player gets them. I’m just saying that there was far less fuss about it as a pure number, rather than a reflection of great passing ability. I imagine Niall Quinn got loads, but at the time, nobody cared of he were close to the top of the assist chart. He may well have been. I think people only cared about noteworthy creative players, not every assist. Goals have always been goals.

 

[bsCallout]

If you're not a top striker you're unlikely to be top scorer.

If you're not a top creative player you're unlikely to be top in assists.

Seems obvious to me why it is important, Bruno is top for assists for obvious reasons, he creates a lot and his ability to do so increases the chances of our forwards scoring.

If you're a great passer, you'll get lots of assists generally, see TAA.

There aren't that many 'lucky' assists or goals.

 

[Pexbo]

Perhaps, but again - he was great at assisting. This is David Beckham. I agree that there was a fuss about the goals he was creating. But I don’t remember anyone caring how many Ruud created himself, although he must have created a few given the area of the pitch he played in. It wasn’t so much ‘goal involvements’. I think if he was a particularly brilliant passer, like Henry - then there would have been talk about that side of his game. It just didn’t seem to be such a numbers race back then. I remember Henry setting a record for it and it was praised.

Basically, I never saw anyone who wasn’t a great passer being spoken about regarding assists. Yet every player gets them. I’m just saying that there was far less fuss about it as a pure number, rather than a reflection of great passing ability. I imagine Niall Quinn got loads, but at the time, nobody cared of he were close to the top of the assist chart. He may well have been. I think people only cared about noteworthy creative players, not every assist. Goals have always been goals.

Which of the non top players is being discussed about today assist wise? They’re discussed as a stat generally like they always have been but you’re not going to remember people discussing Tom Davies’ assists in 15 years time because they occasionally appear on a sky infographic

 

[roonster09]

Perhaps, but again - he was great at assisting. This is David Beckham. I agree that there was a fuss about the goals he was creating. But I don’t remember anyone caring how many Ruud created himself, although he must have created a few given the area of the pitch he played in. It wasn’t so much ‘goal involvements’. I think if he was a particularly brilliant passer, like Henry - then there would have been talk about that side of his game. It just didn’t seem to be such a numbers race back then. I remember Henry setting a record for it and it was praised.

Basically, I never saw anyone who wasn’t a great passer being spoken about regarding assists. Yet every player gets them. I’m just saying that there was far less fuss about it as a pure number, rather than a reflection of great passing ability. I imagine Niall Quinn got loads, but at the time, nobody cared of he were close to the top of the assist chart. He may well have been. I think people only cared about noteworthy creative players, not every assist. Goals have always been goals.

Maybe they cared but you were not old enough to remember. You said you are 30, so when Quinn retired you were around 11 or 12. So maybe that's the reason

 

[Abraxas]

I think whether people cared about them in the 90s is somewhat irrelevant to whether they are an informative statistic.

The argument that it can bounce off somebody's shin and be counted as an assist and is therefore lacking meaning does not hold much water as it the same as any isolated incident recorded by stat, the stat tells the story by numbers and eyes do the rest. However, you are not likely to get 15 bouncing off your shin to the striker every season so it is somewhat expected that the interpretation of stats takes account that short term isolation of numbers can create a false impression. This is the main idea behind having a decent sample size, which in footballing terms would naturally be a season.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Niall Quinn got 37 assists in 250 Premier League games by the way.

 

[RUCK4444]

When did everyone start giving such a shit? I’m just gone 30 so not that old really, but I remember when growing up, nobody cared about this stuff. Strikers are now being rated by ‘goal involvements’ or ‘G+A’ stats.

In my younger days, a great pass was always praised. If it led to a goal, fantastic, but you were just praised for the quality of your play. Now the first thing I hear is ‘he’ll get an assist for that’ for any old touch. I think it’s a bit of a BS metric personally. The other week, Pogba got an assist against Brighton when his miscued shot was headed in by Greenwood. ‘Back in the day’ - it would have just been seen for what it was, and nobody would be using Pogba’s involvement in that goal as a means of praise.

I feel like Arsenal fans are responsible for taking this to a new level, as they attempted to make assists the new goals after they signed Mesut Ozil. Beckham was a brilliant crosser. That was pretty much established. At the time though, I don’t recall such a fuss about the amount of them that ended in goals.

Yeah I would usually be on your page with stuff like this, I'm similar age, not usually a fan of flavour of the month trends. However I do think there is a merit to monitoring assists.

In much the same way 'chances created' is quite relevant. Only because it gives you an insight into how much a player is affecting the game and ultimately helping our forwards, or conversely, how wasteful our forwards are being. Without those stats we'd all be interpreting player output differently I suppose.

 

[sullydnl]

The top players for assists in the PL this season are pretty much the players you'd expect to see: Vardy, Kane, Fernandes, Grealish, De Bruyne, Rashford, Son.

Which suggests to me that that while it's not the best stat in the world (too dependent on what other players do and sometimes awarded for minimal input into a goal) it's not entirely without value when assessing the impact of attacking contributions over a season, even if there are more in-depth stats that break down individual player performance more accurately.

As for why people don't just praise the quality of play anymore, they actually still do. If someone plays a beautiful ball you'll see them get praised for it. But if people want to actually analyse and breakdown player performances then applying a statistical framework is more effective than simply going by the eye-test and saying "that player plays nice passes". And the ever increasing use of stats in that way has shifted the language around football a bit, so even rudimentary stats like assists are emphasised more now when people speak about football.

But it's not like it's a stat that has suddenly been invented in the last couple of years. I remember reading a piece in a newspaper talking about the people who assisted the most during the 2002 World Cup, for example. So on some level it was entering the conversation then.

It's probably to do with the conversation around football shifting online too. Talking about stats makes more sense in that context than it does in real-life conversations.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

If you're not a top striker you're unlikely to be top scorer.

If you're not a top creative player you're unlikely to be top in assists.

Seems obvious to me why it is important, Bruno is top for assists for obvious reasons, he creates a lot and his ability to do so increases the chances of our forwards scoring.

If you're a great passer, you'll get lots of assists generally, see TAA.

There aren't that many 'lucky' assists or goals.

Was Iniesta not a creative player. Zidane?

 

[Rozay]

Which of the non top players is being discussed about today assist wise? They’re discussed as a stat generally like they always have been but you’re not going to remember people discussing Tom Davies’ assists in 15 years time because they occasionally appear on a sky infographic

All of them. A number is seen as a number. Any assist is actively acknowledged as an ‘assist’, in the same way any goal has been always been acknowledged, at every level of the game.

This wasn’t always the way. Every goal of every type now scored at any level is analysed from both a goal and assist statistical perspective.

I didn’t say they will be discussed for eternity, I’m saying that a Tom Davies equivalent in David Beckham’s time never seemed to have the fact that he was on 7 assists so far that season mentioned as a metric for whether he was having a good year or not that year. Now, you would expect a commentator to say ‘he’s contributed 7 assists so far this year, which is a good return for him’. Even in Beckham’s own team - Roy Keane was always playing well. I never heard anyone talking about he’s ‘got good numbers this season for assists’. He certainly got them. They were recorded somewhere I’m sure, only that nobody cared. Of course, if he pulled out an outrageous assist, it would have rightly been spoken about, but as a pure metric in itself, it wasn’t a point of discussion and nobody really cared.

 

[bsCallout]

Was Iniesta not a creative player. Zidane?

Zidane had good G+A.

Iniestas arent too bad but obviously position played has to be taken into account.

 

[snk123]

These days people are obsessed with stats. It's like people don't even watch games now and just concentrate on the numbers and make up their minds who played well and who didn't.

 

[Rozay]

Maybe they cared but you were not old enough to remember. You said you are 30, so when Quinn retired you were around 11 or 12. So maybe that's the reason

I was clutching to be fair, I’m a bit over thirty and was being generous with my ‘not long turned 30’ comment!

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Zidane had good G+A.

Iniestas arent too bad but obviously position played has to be taken into account.

Good? They were alright but nothing special. Certainly nothing like Lampard and Bruno. Just goes to show you can't see it in a linear way. One can influence matches in many ways. Football is about the collective.

 

[ryan_forlan]

I don't know much about assists being a good stat or not.
But I feel, fantasy football and player attributes on FIFA have turned every football fan into an idiot and every idiot football fan into an "expert".

 

[bsCallout]

Good? They were alright but nothing special. Certainly nothing like Lampard and Bruno. Just goes to show you can't see it in a linear way. One can influence matches in many ways. Football is about the collective.

That's beside the point. The metric is still very useful to guage someone's effect on the game. Perhaps it should have been phrased as "you won't be top for assists or top goalscorer without being very creative or being a good striker"

It doesn't mean those without those stats arent useful, it means those with those stats are.

 

[sullydnl]

The important thing is that people are able to apply context to a given stat.

For example, knowing that set-pieces are what gave Aaron Cresswell as many assists as Son in the league this season, as opposed to taking it on face value that Cresswell must be as creative a footballer as Son because he has set up as many goals.

That applies to all stats though, not just assists.