Auction Draft Final : 2Mufc/Gio vs. GSTQ

[Indnyc]

2Mufc/Gio —————vs.—————————- GSTQ

Vs.

Tactics 2Mufc/Gio

Francesco Toldo is in goal, a reliable and consistent keeper and one of the best goalkeepers of his generation. At the back the greatest defender of all time Franz Beckenbauer marshals the defence and provides impeccable reading of the game and defensive nous; he will also provide world class distribution from the back. Next to him is Djalma who was a fantastic defender, he will provide cover while Kaiser ventures forward, Djalma will also provide support for Lato ahead of him. We have created a fortress of a defence by bringing in one of the best centre back stoppers of all time Jurgen Kohler providing world class defensive cover. The core of Kaiser + Kohler provides immense defensive strength against the oppositions fantastic centrally oriented attack. At left back is Briegel bustling with energy and physicality able to provide attacking threat as well as top class defensive cover.

In midfield, 2 time world cup winner Zito is tasked with screening the defence and providing precise distribution from deep midfield positions, he is also a fantastic ball winner able to break up opposition attacks and setup quick counters. We have boosted our midfield by bringing in Brazilian master Falcaoin central midfield and has the box to box role and provides additional energy and bite in the midfield area as well as impeccable playmaking skills from deeper positions. In front of these two is the greatest no.10 of all time Maradona he will be at the centre of the team in the attacking phase with the play running through him, he will be devastating making runs from deep positions and also through his immense passing feeding the front 3.

In attack Muller the most lethal finisher of all time spearheads the attack, he will be ready waiting to pounce from service from Maradona and wide areas. Muller has everything required to thrive with Maradona at unparalleled levels — ultra productive so he can make the most of Maradona's creative skillset, unselfish and wouldn't mind doing some dirty work through the central channels, not a big dribbler so there will be no overlap between them, perfected the art of losing his marker so he could get on the end of Maradona's crosses, and tactically intelligent to boot. At RW is Polish legend Lato known for his pace and dribbling ability, he will be a menace taking on the opposition full back. We have reinforced the team by bringing in United legend Ryan Giggs on the left, his hard working and selfless game is tailor made to work with Muller and Maradona, furthermore he also has his own x-factor being able to score and create too.

Overall the team is setup with the 3 best players in defence, midfield and attack to thrive and has been significantly upgraded in midfield with the inclusion of Falcao; the team is setup to play direct football with quick transitions and also built on solid foundation at the back able to soak up pressure when required. The players around Maradona (the heartbeat of the attack) all have the attributes to share a special chemistry and provide a platform for him to dominate the game. Furthermore, it is also difficult to envision a better spine in the draft (Beckenbauer-Maradona-Muller) and on an individual level all three are loaded with the individual ability to make a difference in a close match up and win the game for us.

Tactics GSTQ

Style of play : Quick counter attacking football. Build from the back when not counter attacking with the idea of pacing things up in the final third.

Defending style : Zonal. Congest the central areas

Special roles : Carlos and Leandro

1. Act as the secondary play makers of the team with lots of freedom.
2. Help in congesting the central areas by crowding the midfield when required (One of the best tactics against Maradona IMO).

Out balls from the back on counters :

Runs forward - Bonhof, Carlos, Leandro

Long balls - Baresi, Ferrara, Leandro, Carlos, Bonhof

3-4-1-2 without two B2B midfielders?

Was surprised to see many calling out Mauro Silva in this setup. One of the earliest adopters of this setup was Franz Beckenbauer who used it for the first time in 1986 WC. (Infact the final was a 3-5-2 vs 3-5-2, just different variants)

What was so unique about the 1986 WC? Never before in history had you seen such a galore of GOAT number 10's in one WC. Probably won't see it again. To name a few - Maradona, Platini, Zico, Laudrup and a lot more of tier 2 No 10's.

Not having a proper DM would have been suicidal in such a tournament. Throughout the tournament, West Germany played with a double pivot with 1 DM and 1 B2B midfielder. By the final, both the pivots were more or less defensive.

So where did the out ball and creativity come from? Besides the primary play maker, the creativity came from the wing backs who had really expansive roles.

Take a look at the 1986 setup of West Germany. I wanted to make a more detailed post on this but sadly I didn't get enough time.

 

[Indnyc]

Good Luck @2mufc0 @Gio @GodShaveTheQueen

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Didn't get to fully celebrate this duo in the last game, so here we go !!

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

And then, add this guy behind them

 

[Gio]

We targeted our reinforcement to bullet-proof the defence. Firstly to bring in arguably the gold standard man-marking stopper of all time in Jurgen Kohler, who stood out even in an era of defensive giants. And secondly to imagine who would bring out the best in Franz Beckenbauer and his German compatriot Kohler seemed to be the most natural fit - stylistically, linguistically, quality-wise. The Kohler - Kaiser - Djalma axis is as good as it gets in mitigating such a stacked attack that GSTQ brings to the table.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Next to him is Djalma who was a fantastic defender, he will provide cover while Kaiser ventures forward

One of the main reasons for bringing Carlos in was to not give Djalma the positional freedom to cover for Beckenbauer.

With someone as quick as Carlos, Djalma would not get too much recovery time to afford the positional freedom.

This would limit Kaiser's influence on the game IMO if he feels way too much of the back line would become open, especially with Ronaldo and Romario upfront as well.

The whole idea behind Carlos and Leandro was to open so many channels up so that the opposition couldn't sit narrow and pretty.

 

[Gio]

Equally though that works in our favour with Giggs and Lato out wide stretching the play. Both had tremendous work rate and could graft back in, but were most known for working the line and pulling defences apart using the full width of the park. They'll be well placed to motor into space behind attack-minded wing-backs.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Equally though that works in our favour with Giggs and Lato out wide stretching the play. Both had tremendous work rate and could graft back in, but were most known for working the line and pulling defences apart using the full width of the park. They'll be well placed to motor into space behind attack-minded wing-backs.

Yes Giggs and Late can stretch play and I expect Ferrara and Cannavaro to help out when the wingbacks are caught up field, but Giggs and Lato still won't help in giving Kaiser the freedom to play his controlling game by stepping out from time to time if he sees that it can be too risky against the opposition in question.

I think if I can limit your second best player, the Kaiser on the pitch to a defensive role rather than his usual commanding and controlling self, that is a big plus.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Just to add a last thing to the Kaiser point, below was one of my criticism of the 2muGio team from round 1 and that is something that still exists IMO.

@2mufc0 @Gio

I am sorry if it feels like nitpicking, but I have never been a fan of the most defensive full back and the DM on the same side of the pitch. Especially with someone like Bene who wont drop deep as well.

I know you have the Kaiser to distribute and it can't get better than that from the centre, but my general understanding is it leaves huge link up problem on that flank.

While I did concede that having the Kaiser helps, the CB to winger path is not an ideal one when it comes to distribution and link up.

Adding to that the limited influence I expect Kaiser to have, the right side of the attack might become really tough to build up from.

 

[Gio]

Yes Giggs and Late can stretch play and I expect Ferrara and Cannavaro to help out when the wingbacks are caught up field, but Giggs and Lato still won't help in giving Kaiser the freedom to play his controlling game by stepping out from time to time if he sees that it can be too risky against the opposition in question.

I think if I can limit your second best player, the Kaiser on the pitch to a defensive role rather than his usual commanding and controlling self, that is a big plus.

To be honest I cannot imagine a better set-up for maximising Beckenbauer's impact on the game. I'd buy your point if we had a more gung-ho wing back masquerading as a full-back next to him, but Djalma is pretty much perfect for the job in hand. In any case, Beckenbauer is a world-class defender on his own merits, irrespective of the structure around him, and was well versed in controlling games from the back. He was always able to spot the 'golden opportunity' as Synco put it as to when to overload the midfield, but could command the game from the defensive line without the need to venture forward.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

To be honest I cannot imagine a better set-up for maximising Beckenbauer's impact on the game. I'd buy your point if we had a more gung-ho wing back masquerading as a full-back next to him

I don't question the full back beside him. Djalma is as good as it gets.

But if you expect him to cover for Beckenbauer as the OP states, all I say is that leave a hell lot of space for Carlos to burn his pace.

So Djalma either risks letting Carlos have that flank open on the counters or the Kaiser reads this situation being very risky and limits his influence outside the defensive area to not overload Djalma with 2 zones to over for at once.

2mufc0 made a very good point in your last game. The Kaiser was not an idiot to run gung ho and expose the defense. He knew when to step out and when to not. In this game, what I say is I expect him to take those chances not very often because of the points I mentioned above.

To repeat, I am not expecting your defense to be open at the back, I expect Kaiser's influence to be limited to the defensive areas considering the players to handle both from the central areas and the wings.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Just to build on that point a little bit more and to get Ro-Ro involved, Thiery Henry described their style of play quite well.

Ronaldo did things nobody had seen before. He, together with Romario and George Weah, reinvented the centre-forward position.
They were the first to drop from the box to pick up the ball in midfield, switch to the flanks, attract and disorientate the central defenders with their runs, their accelerations, their dribbling.
Who had done that before? Gerd Muller? Paolo Rossi? No.

With Ronaldo and Romario capable of roaming at will and running towards the flanks on counters with Zico moving into the box centrally, that reduces the positional freedom for the back 4 even more.

I keep repeating the term, but positional freedom can't be afforded against fluid and fast teams capable of opening so many channels up with flair and speed.

Brazilians especially IMO would be the best to exploit such scenarios.

 

[Gio]

Just to add a last thing to the Kaiser point, below was one of my criticism of the 2muGio team from round 1 and that is something that still exists IMO.


While I did concede that having the Kaiser helps, the CB to winger path is not an ideal one when it comes to distribution and link up.

Adding to that the limited influence I expect Kaiser to have, the right side of the attack might become really tough to build up from.

Build up looks a lot easier for us than it does for you. We have the premier central defensive playmaker commanding things from the back in Beckenbauer. Ahead of him we have a three-man midfield in Falcao, Zito and Maradona, whose ability to control the midfield and transition forward into dangerous areas is second-to-none. Not only that, our build up through those three and Beckenbauer looks much smoother and more accurate than what we are likely to see from your defensive core. A lot of your build up seems to rest on funneling the ball out wide to your wing-backs. However, Giggs and Lato are perfect fits for cutting out passing lanes and significantly reducing the amount of ball these guys will see. And frankly I do not see Silva and Bonhof compensating in any way comparable to what Falcao and Zito bring to the shape of this game.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

A lot of your build up seems to rest on funneling the ball out wide to your wing-backs.

Build up has different phases.

When I say Carlos and Leandro are secondary play makers here, it doesn't mean they need to take the ball and run into the final third and create the chances all on their own.

Their job is to get the ball out of defense and get Zico and Ronaldo when he drops deep into the game. Carlos and Leandro of course continue with more build up beyond their and the job doesn't end there. But it does not mean the onus is all on their shoulders.

It is the kind of job you expect a B2B player to do but when you want to be able to afford a DM in there with 3 CB's, you need more than one ball carriers apart from Bonhof. No one can say there are many better players than Carlos and Leandro to do that.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

frankly I do not see Silva and Bonhof compensating in any way comparable to what Falcao and Zito bring to the shape of this game.

Different teams, different formations and different shapes. Comparing them is not something I would do to be honest.

I have posted the 1986 WC inspiration behind the Bonhof/Silva/Carlos/Leandro roles in the OP in quite detail.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Fantastic spine from Giofc. Can't get better. The quality of fullbacks to support the attack however stands out like a eyesore. I see him playing most of the game in front of GSTQ's crowded defensive midfield. Think this would be a cagey match with GSTQ nicking it by 1 goal in the end.

 

[Physiocrat]

Different teams, different formations and different shapes. Comparing them is not something I would do to be honest.

I have posted the 1986 WC inspiration behind the Bonhof/Silva/Carlos/Leandro roles in the OP in quite detail.

How do you rate Mauro Silva and Bonhof's passing abilities vis a vis Eder and Matthaus?

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Will rejoin the discussion in a while. Below is an image from my work desk at home.

Portrays various role given to players. (Just in case someone questions Silva given a man marking job while the system is Zonal, I am firm believer of all Zonal systems still having a certain amount of man marking)

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

How do you rate Mauro Silva and Bonhof's passing abilities vis a vis Eder and Matthaus?

Matthaus was the stand out passer among those 4.

Bonhof was the second best. He was a libero and play making wing back (non overlapping kind most often) as well and had very good long passing range.

He is usually given the B2B lung bursting tag which I feel is very unfair considering I have watched a hell lot of him. His long passes on the break are a treat (his chemistry with Kempes is something I really wanted to show in this draft when they were together at Valencia, but sadly, looks like people dont rate Kempes here and so had to sell him).

Mauro Silva comes next. Very good short passer (obvious as people played him in possession systems as well). Not a great long passer, he could switch play nicely with long passes at times, but not one of his best skills as his long pass speed was slow. Not that I expect that of him here.

Eder was a CB basically played as the DM by Beckenbauer and in the two 1986 WC games I watched this week, he hardly made any forward passes. More or less played a DM role with side passes.

 

[Gio]

Different teams, different formations and different shapes. Comparing them is not something I would do to be honest.

I have posted the 1986 WC inspiration behind the Bonhof/Silva/Carlos/Leandro roles in the OP in quite detail.

I understand the rationale behind a 3-5-2 with a gritty core - there were certainly plenty of those sides around in the 1980s.

What was so unique about the 1986 WC? Never before in history had you seen such a galore of GOAT number 10's in one WC. Probably won't see it again. To name a few - Maradona, Platini, Zico, Laudrup and a lot more of tier 2 No 10's.

Not having a proper DM would have been suicidal in such a tournament. Throughout the tournament, West Germany played with a double pivot with 1 DM and 1 B2B midfielder. By the final, both the pivots were more or less defensive..

In fairness though, only Maradona was at the peak of his powers in that tournament. Laudrup was excellent but more as a youthful roaming forward than the classic 10 playmaker he went on to become in Spain. Both Platini and Zico were past their past and/or carrying injuries. As much as I enjoyed France v Brazil in '86, it was the end of an era for both men. And Matthaus played the tournament as a box-to-box rather than as part of a double pivot.

I rate Mauro Silva, but since we are looking at the tactical fit I'm unaware of him having any sustained pedigree in a back three system and the slightly different duties that places on a central midfielder. Certainly Brazil in 1994 played a narrow 4-4-2 with Mauro sitting in front of the two centre-backs. Same at Super Depor with a back four system. These aren't major issues in my book, but the wider picture of getting the ball up to that front three given the build up issues would be a challenge.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

And Matthaus played the tournament as a box-to-box rather than as part of a double pivot

Below is from my OP. They played a double pivot in the final with Matthaus pretty much playing the DM role as well man marking Diego. Also, in my team, Bonhof is the B2B

Throughout the tournament, West Germany played with a double pivot with 1 DM and 1 B2B midfielder. By the final, both the pivots were more or less defensive.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

but the wider picture of getting the ball up to that front three given the build up issues would be a challenge.

Well, which is why Leandro and Carlos were recruited. With those two and Bonhof, I think I can easily afford a more defensive midfielder.

I know I would have won more brownie points if I got in a Tigana or Davids instead of Silva and let Benarrivo stay as that look more obvious, but I don't believe that it is a the only way to setup a 3-5-2.

There are real world examples to prove that as I have shown in the OP. The samba beats made me not chicken out this time to a boring two B2B pair.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

I see him playing most of the game in front of GSTQ's crowded defensive midfield.

Which plays right into the tactic of playing a packed back 5 and out sourcing the link up job to the wing backs instead of playing 2 B2Bs.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Very optimistic. I don't see any 2vs1 against fullback happening in your team!

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Very optimistic. I don't see any 2vs1 against fullback happening in your team!

Well, if the opposition expects the Kaiser to take cover from Djalma and Kohler, it is possible on the counters.

Lets not forget Ronaldo and Romario drifted wide all the time.

If you watch the Ro-Ro video I posted, they even crossed to each other from flanks to score.

Just to requote Henry again:

Ronaldo did things nobody had seen before. He, together with Romario and George Weah, reinvented the centre-forward position.
They were the first to drop from the box to pick up the ball in midfield, switch to the flanks, attract and disorientate the central defenders with their runs, their accelerations, their dribbling.
Who had done that before? Gerd Muller? Paolo Rossi? No.

 

[Gio]

Fantastic spine from Giofc. Can't get better. The quality of fullbacks to support the attack however stands out like a eyesore. I see him playing most of the game in front of GSTQ's crowded defensive midfield. Think this would be a cagey match with GSTQ nicking it by 1 goal in the end.

Worth highlighting that Briegel was a machine getting up and down that flank. He scored more league goals in his career than the great Roberto Carlos, despite playing little over half the number of games, and taking 3000 fewer free-kicks Just shy of a goal every 2 games in his best Bundesliga season and was 6th top scorer in Serie A when he inspired Verona to those title heroics.

I wouldn't pretend that Djalma was a mad overlapper, but he was always neat and classy on the ball. We made a tactical decision there to get the best out of Beckenbauer and to use two wingers who would keep the width up top.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

He scored more league goals in his career than the great Roberto Carlos

Curious as to how many of those were from the midfield.

Not that I want to argue wing/full backs based on goal outcomes (I am sure you dont too), but that stat might be misleading when you talk of flank work.

 

[Gio]

Curious as to how many of those were from the midfield.

Not that I want to argue wing/full backs based on goal outcomes (I am sure you dont too), but that stat might be misleading when you talk of flank work.

Well hard to say because he did spend some time in defensive midfield, but the point stands on Briegel as either way it reflects his attacking contribution.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Worth highlighting that Briegel was a machine getting up and down that flank. He scored more league goals in his career than the great Roberto Carlos, despite playing little over half the number of games, and taking 3000 fewer free-kicks Just shy of a goal every 2 games in his best Bundesliga season and was 6th top scorer in Serie A when he inspired Verona to those title heroics.

Hmmm, knew his workrate, but didn't realize the goal stats.

Difficult choice now.

 

[harms]

Just shy of a goal every 2 games in his best Bundesliga season and was 6th top scorer in Serie A when he inspired Verona to those title heroics.

He played in midfield for Verona iirc. A huge goalthreat nonetheless, especially with his head (a bit unorthodox for a fullback).

 

[Physiocrat]

Worth highlighting that Briegel was a machine getting up and down that flank. He scored more league goals in his career than the great Roberto Carlos, despite playing little over half the number of games, and taking 3000 fewer free-kicks .

Thanks for the info on the midfield @GodShaveTheQueen

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Sigh that was a boring 1st half with none of the voters joining the discussion or commenting their views.

Hopefully the 2nd half will be more livelier tomorrow. Night night.

 

[willhse456]

Haven't voted yet as I can't really decide. Think it will be a very close game. 2mufc0/Gio don't have any glaring weaknesses in their team. GSTQ has a great defence and attack, but I'm not sure if he's strong enough in the centre of the pitch.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Haven't voted yet as I can't really decide. Think it will be a very close game. 2mufc0/Gio don't have any glaring weaknesses in their team. GSTQ has a great defence and attack, but I'm not sure if he's strong enough in the centre of the pitch.

Cheers mate, I'd call that a fair assessment.

Regarding the centre of the pitch, do read my OP if you haven't gotten a chance to. I tried to replicate the 1986 West Germany setup.

Hasn't hit a chord with everyone here but there was a plan to negate the central areas and the creativity has been out sourced to other areas of the pitch like wing backs (again inspired by that setup).

Of course, as I have mentioned throughout the draft, both Bonhof and Mauro Silva were integral parts of WC winning teams.

Bonhof in 74 against a midfield of Neeskens/Van Hanegem/Cruyff and Silva had to handle Baggio at his peak..

 

[Gio]

Giggsy loved a big Champions League game under the lights against his old foe Ferrara:

Worth clicking through to Youtube there to hear the crowd and nothing but the crowd.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

I am disappointed in you Gio.

I'd have expected lesser drafters than you to pick that goal out against a 36 year old Ferrara on his last legs. Guess I need to pull you out of the tier 1 to tier 2 now

For what its worth, this is what Giggs said of Ferrara

Paolo Montero and Ciro Ferrara of Juventus were the toughest defenders I played against. It was: ‘The ball might go past us but you’re not’. It was old school.

 

[Gio]

I am disappointed in you Gio.

I'd have expected lesser drafters than you to pick that goal out against a 36 year old Ferrara on his last legs. Guess I need to pull you out of the tier 1 to tier 2 now

For what its worth, this is what Giggs said of Ferrara

It's the first goal that most impresses me in that sequence, when Ferrara was a spring chicken 30 year-old in his prime.

The third goal I didn't rate as highly at the time - mostly because Juve had the bulk of the play but got picked off on the break ruthlessly by United.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

It's the first goal that most impresses me in that sequence, when Ferrara was a spring chicken 30 year-old in his prime.

The third goal I didn't rate as highly at the time - mostly because Juve had the bulk of the play but got picked off on the break ruthlessly by United.

Yes, that one is a great goal, but then again not really up against Ferrara directly there (I mean doesn't really beat him or is anywhere near him).

Still a great run and finish but its the assist that opens Juve up there.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

In both their prime, Giggs and Ferrara met 5 times in the late 90's and Ferrara/Juve maintained 3 clean sheets. (Juve won 3 - all clean sheet games, drew 1, United won 1)

Giggs doesn't call him his toughest opponent just like that

 

[Physiocrat]

Going for GSTQ by one goal. I can see Gio/2mufc0 attack being focused towards the left which makes congesting the space and defending for GSTQ easier- having Baresi at sweeper organising this is brilliant for GSTQ. Further I'd expect quite a few of Gio's players to advance forward otherwise breaking down the defence won't happen at it could end up as a 0-0 which is an unlikely finish in a knockout game assuming we're no playing for penalties. So I expect some space for GSTQ's front three to have a few decent chances. I think Bonhof and Baresi could get the ball forward quick enough (a more expansive passer in the place of Mauro Silva would be ideal but I think this could be good enough)