Cheers Trippy, had to bow to peer pressure.
Hope some of you lads watching Soccer Aid tonight. Seedorf giving a wee reminder of his class scoring a hat trick.
Auction Draft QF2 : Cutch vs Isotope
- Thread starter Moby
- Start date
Hope some of you lads watching Soccer Aid tonight. Seedorf giving a wee reminder of his class scoring a hat trick.
I suppose thinking about it here, Paulo Rossi would be coming in to this Milan side basically as a significant upgrade of Pippo Inzaghi.
Ah Cutchy boy, I still prefer your team but you really should have improved more than this - forcing Baggio in there wasn't necessary when Totti or Del Piero could have done the job. Pirlo needed to play and you look much better with him on the pitch.
Kaka/Baggio was fine though, not sure why people have a problem with that - it's a lovely partnership. Kaka isn't a playmaker but Pirlo has that role in the Milan side and it wasn't a problem with Shevchenko. I would have preferred Totti though, different player to Baggio and Del Piero and his passing would have been really complimentary to Rossi's movement up top and Kaka's breaks from deep.
Anyway, I still think you will nick this one here - I can't see many goals but fancy Pirlo's passing to be the difference and the most likely source of splitting either defence. There isn't much creativity in Isotopes midfield and Savicevic is well marshalled by Maldini.
1-0 Cutch - Pirlo cross field pass to Cafu who smashes it across the box for Crespo to tap home.
Kaka/Baggio was fine though, not sure why people have a problem with that - it's a lovely partnership. Kaka isn't a playmaker but Pirlo has that role in the Milan side and it wasn't a problem with Shevchenko. I would have preferred Totti though, different player to Baggio and Del Piero and his passing would have been really complimentary to Rossi's movement up top and Kaka's breaks from deep.
Anyway, I still think you will nick this one here - I can't see many goals but fancy Pirlo's passing to be the difference and the most likely source of splitting either defence. There isn't much creativity in Isotopes midfield and Savicevic is well marshalled by Maldini.
1-0 Cutch - Pirlo cross field pass to Cafu who smashes it across the box for Crespo to tap home.
Cheers Theon. Fair enough assessment. Possibly aimed too high with the attacking upgrade. Surprised more hasn't been made about the part in bold, with Isotopes midfield very robust looking but not one that you expect to control the tempo of this game and lacking in creativity as you say. I also expect the game to (hopefully) finish 1-0.
The Pirlo to Cafu outball you mention is one that you would expect to see an awful lot of in this game.
No written rule, but you would assume it's no more than three and players who come off can´t get back on the pitch. Common sense more than a rule per se.
Peak Kaka in 2006-07 Champions League season. Pretty much unplayable that season. Will be looking for something similar to 1:06 with the Cafu link up.
Hehe. Do I need to bang the "all is relative" drum again? 'Course Kaka can pass the ball a bit - not too shabby at all in that department. But compared to the best string-pullers he isn't as much as playmaker as...yeah, a bit of a hybrid I suppose.
Rossi was definitely a more rounded type of striker than many give him credit for - he had an incredible nose for goals but he wasn't Inzaghi. Definitely able to combine and as Cutch says, his actual position was more that of a second striker in many ways - albeit often in a set-up that didn't have clear cut roles in that regard. It would be wrong, I think, to regard him as a support striker as such - his main strength was his deadliness as a finisher, after all.
What was the last point...yes - Savicevic. Rarely been so blown away by a player as I was when I watched him for the first time - hell of a player. Incredible dribbler, for starters. At one point I'd say Savicevic and Giggs were the best wingers/dribblers in the business. The difference between them was that Giggsy was clearly faster. Whereas Savicevic was clearly more skilful - the latter had technique and touch oozing out of his...pores. That said it would probably be dubious to label him a pure winger. To me he wasn't too unlike my man Littbarski in terms of the positions he often operated from/in. Giggsy was definitely more line-hugging to continue with that comparison.
Compared to Best? Well, I don't know. From what I've seen of Best - and heard from those who had the privilege of seeing him in action - he was something else, simply put. And he was also a more prolific goal scorer. But in terms of this draft, I'd say Savicevic doesn't have many above him in the sort of role Isotope has assigned for him here. He was a great player in my opinion.
Rossi was definitely a more rounded type of striker than many give him credit for - he had an incredible nose for goals but he wasn't Inzaghi. Definitely able to combine and as Cutch says, his actual position was more that of a second striker in many ways - albeit often in a set-up that didn't have clear cut roles in that regard. It would be wrong, I think, to regard him as a support striker as such - his main strength was his deadliness as a finisher, after all.
What was the last point...yes - Savicevic. Rarely been so blown away by a player as I was when I watched him for the first time - hell of a player. Incredible dribbler, for starters. At one point I'd say Savicevic and Giggs were the best wingers/dribblers in the business. The difference between them was that Giggsy was clearly faster. Whereas Savicevic was clearly more skilful - the latter had technique and touch oozing out of his...pores. That said it would probably be dubious to label him a pure winger. To me he wasn't too unlike my man Littbarski in terms of the positions he often operated from/in. Giggsy was definitely more line-hugging to continue with that comparison.
Compared to Best? Well, I don't know. From what I've seen of Best - and heard from those who had the privilege of seeing him in action - he was something else, simply put. And he was also a more prolific goal scorer. But in terms of this draft, I'd say Savicevic doesn't have many above him in the sort of role Isotope has assigned for him here. He was a great player in my opinion.
I think this is the sort of game where the difference between Thuram and Cafu becomes apparent to my advantage. In a game where your fullback is expected to do serious defending, up against a winger like Garrincha or Best you'd take Thuram. In this game though both have quite a bit of freedom to go forward. Thuram certainly wasn't a natural attacking fullback, while Cafu was an absolute beast. It would be Cafu that would have the biggest part to play in this game, while you probably wouldn't really see the best of Thuram.
Only slagging Chester, agreed of course. Wanted a Crespo gif and couldn't help but notice who played the pass in that one 
Yeah, it's not like you have two Pippo Inzaghi clones there. They can do everything he did, and much more. I followed his career from his early days alongside Enzo at River, not just a great player but had his head screwed on nice and tight. I've said before Argentina fecked up sticking to Batistuta over Crespo post-98, maybe even in '98 itself, which gives you an idea how much I rated him.
As I said earlier, it was harsh to leave Crespo on the bench, certainly not a good move that: affected the attacking partnership, Kaka's role with Baggio there, how your midfield worked without Pirlo, and not having Cafú as your RB, pretty key with a diamond.
Too much disruption there, which is why I didn't wait and see. It's a tight game and starting on the wrong footing like that could be the main factor settling it IMO.
Here's a fun little clip. Savicevic giving us all kinds of hell - from the Super Cup final back in 1991:
...all in vain, of course. We beat 'em by a goal. Incidentally a 17yr old Giggsy came on as a sub in that match. We started with Blackmore down the left flank - a fact which makes me smile, no disrespect to Clayton. But he ain't quite up there with Giggs and Savicevic.
So much for Pirlo controlling the Game, where there are Rijkaard and Desailly there
And Rossi never have good goalscoring rate
He had an excellent rate for Vicenza and before the scandal. And then he played for Juve in an era notorious for a scarcity of goals all round. And, again, he wasn't actually the sheer poacher he's usually portrayed as. His record for Juve looks underwhelming on paper, no doubt - but there are factors. Platini was the top scorer for Juve during the same period - and the top scorer in the Serie A three seasons running. He only reached the twenty mark once - and he took both penalties and free kicks (from which he regularly scored). The Serie A was a desert back then in terms of goals.
The issue with that is Pirlo is sitting deep. Desailly would never be up there to deal with him, and even Riijkard it's debatable. Not to mention that Cutch still has two vey good midfielders there to deal with, and Kaka.
The comeback is complete. 8-8.
Neither of those can control a game like Pirlo. In such a tight game with great defences his passing will be the difference.
I think Cutch is spot in what he mentioned Cafu's role in this match - both teams are solid centrally but there is ample space on either flank, which Pirlo is perfect to exploit. He'll rake 30 yard passes out to Cafu all game long.
Ballack would be the one closing Pirlo down. Even if Pirlo is free, it would require something special to find a gap in that defense shield by those two. Cutch actually pretty much pointed out the only gap Pirlo could find in Cafu on the right.
Where on earth did i say that? You must have picked me up wrong.
Pretty sure in Isotopes tactics in the OP he said it's Rijkaard on Pirlo. With Desailly following Kaka and Rijkaard going up field to try and nullify Pirlo it's not going to be a defensive shield at all.
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I don't really get this Rijkaard instruction at all. Is he really the sort of player to play that high up the pitch and stop a player like Andrea Pirlo? How do you stop Pirlo anyway, a man that always seemingly has time on the ball.
Iso's midfield is setup too much to try and nullify the opposition and less geared to create for themselves. My side has the creativity and cohesion, and the right mix of brains and brawn. Add to that the increased attacking output of my fullbacks compared to the opposition and it will be my side that will be playing this game on the front foot.
Iso's midfield is setup too much to try and nullify the opposition and less geared to create for themselves. My side has the creativity and cohesion, and the right mix of brains and brawn. Add to that the increased attacking output of my fullbacks compared to the opposition and it will be my side that will be playing this game on the front foot.
Both teams are extraordinarily solid at the back, to the extent that's it almost hard to see anyone scoring. You have the Baresi/Hierro combination on one side, with the added defensive quality of Thuram. Bennarivo is the weak link here, I think that's fair to say given the quality of that other bunch. Then again Isotope sports Desailly in a DM role in front of the back four, and he will undoubtedly do more than his part if/when the team is actually on its back feet. What you're looking at is no less than four immense figures doing their bit to keep Cutch's attackers from scoring.
On the other side you have the pair of Nesta/Cannavaro - and their bit on the side (heh) is none other than Maldini. The weak link - in purely defensive terms, obviously, is Cafu. But he is at the same time - as pointed out above - one of the few obvious weapons available in this match. If he can run up and down that flank (and he can - he can keep running up and down that flank for weeks) and cause a disturbance (this will be on Bennarivo's side, let's not forget), plus getting some crosses (high or low) in, Cutch then has Crespo and Rossi (the latter in particular is extremely good at showing up precisely where he needs to be in order to convert) PLUS Kaka to get on the end of something. The obvious problem still remains - the immense trio of Thuram-Hierro-Baresi with added help from Desailly. But it's a possible supply line - one that can be tried repeatedly, as Cafu never tires and does have an edge over Bennarivo.
Savicevic is up against Maldini if he wants to engage in wizardry down the wing - and a combined left side of Maldini and Nesta. It doesn't get much harder than this for a trickster.
But - there is the Del Piero-Papin option. If all three of them - assisted by runs from Ballack - move tirelessly an opening can present itself. Del Piero's main area of operation will be to the left of Papin, the area where Cafu is the main defender per default. Papin is fast and slippery - Del Piero definitely has an eye for the killer pass. And both Del Piero and - not least - Papin are capable of finishing from a distance. Again, great movement to cause unrest, Papin drops deepish, away from the area, finds room to fire a rocket - it's conceivable. No defender, no matter how rock solid, can prevent a pure rocket - and Papin is capable of firing just those. Also, Cutch's back four won't get the same support Desailly provides when/if they are under pressure - Pirlo isn't really your man for that sort of business. That would be more up to Gattuso - but it's still not comparable to having an extra defender in the shape of Desailly. Come to think of it, when under pressure Isotope has Rijkaard to boot - who can get back and add further concrete to that wall. If he wanted to park the bus here, he could probably do so in a historically devastating fashion.
But you need a goal to win a match, don't you? And who gets that goal? I just don't know to be honest.
On the other side you have the pair of Nesta/Cannavaro - and their bit on the side (heh) is none other than Maldini. The weak link - in purely defensive terms, obviously, is Cafu. But he is at the same time - as pointed out above - one of the few obvious weapons available in this match. If he can run up and down that flank (and he can - he can keep running up and down that flank for weeks) and cause a disturbance (this will be on Bennarivo's side, let's not forget), plus getting some crosses (high or low) in, Cutch then has Crespo and Rossi (the latter in particular is extremely good at showing up precisely where he needs to be in order to convert) PLUS Kaka to get on the end of something. The obvious problem still remains - the immense trio of Thuram-Hierro-Baresi with added help from Desailly. But it's a possible supply line - one that can be tried repeatedly, as Cafu never tires and does have an edge over Bennarivo.
Savicevic is up against Maldini if he wants to engage in wizardry down the wing - and a combined left side of Maldini and Nesta. It doesn't get much harder than this for a trickster.
But - there is the Del Piero-Papin option. If all three of them - assisted by runs from Ballack - move tirelessly an opening can present itself. Del Piero's main area of operation will be to the left of Papin, the area where Cafu is the main defender per default. Papin is fast and slippery - Del Piero definitely has an eye for the killer pass. And both Del Piero and - not least - Papin are capable of finishing from a distance. Again, great movement to cause unrest, Papin drops deepish, away from the area, finds room to fire a rocket - it's conceivable. No defender, no matter how rock solid, can prevent a pure rocket - and Papin is capable of firing just those. Also, Cutch's back four won't get the same support Desailly provides when/if they are under pressure - Pirlo isn't really your man for that sort of business. That would be more up to Gattuso - but it's still not comparable to having an extra defender in the shape of Desailly. Come to think of it, when under pressure Isotope has Rijkaard to boot - who can get back and add further concrete to that wall. If he wanted to park the bus here, he could probably do so in a historically devastating fashion.
But you need a goal to win a match, don't you? And who gets that goal? I just don't know to be honest.
Great post chesterI seem to have spent the last couple of games agreeing with everything you write Chester. I would only pick on "weak link" aas a term that is a tad unfair on Benarrivo, or Cafú. Yeah, relative to the others, but both solid operators. It's one of the key attacking weapons for cutch, which was what baffled me about Panucci being on the pitch. It's not a gap or glaring mismatch, Benarrivo was good enough to deal with very tricky wingers, let alone an attacking fullback, but there will be some service from there.
@Isotope, bizarre if you indeed have asked Rijkaard to track Pirlo. It's pretty obvious Ballack should pick up Pirlo while Rijkaard and Desailly nullify* Kaká and Seedorf, which leaves Gattuso there which is nothing much to worry about except for the simple pass out wide to Cafú (again, the obvious reason he HAD to be playing).
*while nullify may sound strong, the job Rijkaard and Desailly can do on Kaká and Seedorf is far superior to what Cutch can do with Gattuso vs. Del Piero, Pirlo vs. Ballack or Seedorf vs. Savicevic. That's a very one-sided aspect of this contest really, you have a lot more joy in two of those.
@Isotope, bizarre if you indeed have asked Rijkaard to track Pirlo. It's pretty obvious Ballack should pick up Pirlo while Rijkaard and Desailly nullify* Kaká and Seedorf, which leaves Gattuso there which is nothing much to worry about except for the simple pass out wide to Cafú (again, the obvious reason he HAD to be playing).
*while nullify may sound strong, the job Rijkaard and Desailly can do on Kaká and Seedorf is far superior to what Cutch can do with Gattuso vs. Del Piero, Pirlo vs. Ballack or Seedorf vs. Savicevic. That's a very one-sided aspect of this contest really, you have a lot more joy in two of those.
10-8 now I reckon this settles that pointless "familiar/proven" vs "compatible" debate you guys were having on the main thread. That's some comeback there after reverting to the more familiar and proven setup.
I reckon this settles that pointless "familiar/proven" vs "compatible" debate you guys were having on the main thread. That's some comeback there after reverting to the more familiar and proven setup.I've gone for Cutch.
The most productive outlet for Iso is Ballack/Savicevic. With Savicevic trying to do his trickery on wings, it is optimal for Ballack and his thundering runs into the box. He was quite lethal doing that and did rack a load a goals. But then they are up against Maldini/Nesta. If Pirlo can let out a hand here and there, they should be able to manage.
Pirlo to Cafu who crosses into the box will be Cutch's primary threat, if we assume Desailly would mitigate Kaka, but then it still is a bit dicey. I think Desailly will be caught between on whether to herd Kaka or support defence as a unit. Either way, I think Cutch still has the edge.
The most productive outlet for Iso is Ballack/Savicevic. With Savicevic trying to do his trickery on wings, it is optimal for Ballack and his thundering runs into the box. He was quite lethal doing that and did rack a load a goals. But then they are up against Maldini/Nesta. If Pirlo can let out a hand here and there, they should be able to manage.
Pirlo to Cafu who crosses into the box will be Cutch's primary threat, if we assume Desailly would mitigate Kaka, but then it still is a bit dicey. I think Desailly will be caught between on whether to herd Kaka or support defence as a unit. Either way, I think Cutch still has the edge.
With Baresi, Hierro, Thuram, and Desailly there, crosses is definitely not the best route to get a goal against.
The thing with Cutch's team is that if Kaka and Pirlo are nullified, there's still Seedorf who can dictate the game. Of course, there is Ballack who can close down Seedorf and make life tough for him. However, this leaves Gattuso as the spare man in midfield. He'll be key in freeing up the likes of Pirlo and Seedorf in midfield to do the damage.
Cafu will be very important in this case especially when the middle of the team will be nullified (Baggio was a good option initially in that he could have rotated with Kaka and kept Desailly guessing, but now there's Crespo up front, so there's at least an extra forward for the defenders to deal with). Even with Cutch's playmakers and great forwards, Iso has a very strong defensive unit. Same goes for Cutch, too. Even the supposed weak links Benarrivo and Cafu aren't slouches, defensively.
One thing that should be of concern to Iso is that his team could be pegged back for quite a while and find it difficult to control the match. The two forwards will keep the defenders occupied. Kaka will keep Desailly busy. Seedorf and Pirlo will also keep Ballack and Rijkaard occupied. With Gattuso free to protect the defence and win the ball quickly, Iso's team may struggle to gain a foothold of the match. However, if Iso's team do get a break going, they will be difficult to stop with Savicevic running at the defence and the other two forwards roaming around plus Ballack making his late run into the box.
@Isotope: I would like to know in what way your team can control/is controlling this match. It seems as if you're looking to play on the break, to me. Even then, with Gattuso as the outlet, I think Cutch's team can always maintain possession and have at least 1 creative player free to do the damage.
Cafu will be very important in this case especially when the middle of the team will be nullified (Baggio was a good option initially in that he could have rotated with Kaka and kept Desailly guessing, but now there's Crespo up front, so there's at least an extra forward for the defenders to deal with). Even with Cutch's playmakers and great forwards, Iso has a very strong defensive unit. Same goes for Cutch, too. Even the supposed weak links Benarrivo and Cafu aren't slouches, defensively.
One thing that should be of concern to Iso is that his team could be pegged back for quite a while and find it difficult to control the match. The two forwards will keep the defenders occupied. Kaka will keep Desailly busy. Seedorf and Pirlo will also keep Ballack and Rijkaard occupied. With Gattuso free to protect the defence and win the ball quickly, Iso's team may struggle to gain a foothold of the match. However, if Iso's team do get a break going, they will be difficult to stop with Savicevic running at the defence and the other two forwards roaming around plus Ballack making his late run into the box.
@Isotope: I would like to know in what way your team can control/is controlling this match. It seems as if you're looking to play on the break, to me. Even then, with Gattuso as the outlet, I think Cutch's team can always maintain possession and have at least 1 creative player free to do the damage.
Last push for the match, with Ballack decide to run riot on attack against the defensively hopeless Pirlo 
. Change formation @Aldo
. Change formation @Aldo
I still have Savicevic and Del Piero, who aren't less creative than Kaka. Who's in charge marking them? They put Seedorf, but then they have less in midfield to tackle my creative players. My defense and midfield can definitely contain their attack, what not with two of the best DM of all time (other than Matthaus) in there. I mean, we are talking about Rijkaard and Desailly, two of the best DM in history here. They only have Gatusso there to protect midfield. Their 2 strikers and Kaka aren't gonna help their defense when being attacked.
Can Gatusso contains Ballack and Savicevic surging forward? And Rijkaard is famous as all-time DM because other than his defensive nous, he's capable as well as engaging on attacking moves with flair.
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Not to forget Papin, who's Ballon d'Or winner in 1991, with Mersaille nonetheless.
Just look at those type of goals/volleys he scored for relatively his 'modest' season at Milan.
Just look at those type of goals/volleys he scored for relatively his 'modest' season at Milan.
Whom do you have in your bench @Isotope ?
With Savicevic and Del Piero there in attack, they are capable of creating something out of nothing. They have that x-factor that very few attackers have.
I never said your team couldn't contain them. I said that your team couldn't necessarily get out of the traps. Maldini won't surge forward as frequently as Cafu will, so he will occupy Savicevic. del Piero's bound to roam around the middle, so Gattuso will take care of him. The only way Ballack will get forward is if Savicevic and del Piero get to keep possession and not lose it quickly.
Both teams look solid, defensively. Even if Cutch's team don't have as defensively solid players as you do, their system allows for lots of numbers in defence. Seedorf and Pirlo are good readers of the game and will make sure to prevent anyone from getting into dangerous areas whilst Gattuso will provide the aggression in defence.
Ultimately, both teams are defensively solid. Cannavaro, Nesta, Maldini, and Gattuso will make it difficult for Iso's team to execute counterattacks (though they aren't impossible). Desailly will be key in shutting down Kaka, particularly when Milan break forward. Plus, Rijkaard can shut down Seedorf on the break, too. Crosses into the box can be easily dealt with by Hierro, Baresi, and Thuram. Plus, even if Rossi and Crespo do roam around, Iso's defenders are very good at reading the game and won't be easily fooled.
This is a tight game, very tight indeed. I'll probably read a few more responses before deciding.
EDIT: I feel that the only way this game can be decided is if Gattuso can survive the match for 90 minutes. For some reason, I feel that he may get too aggressive on Savicevic and del Piero on occasions and get himself sent off
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Yeah. This would be extremely tight game. No clear winner in here, and it's definitely depend on experience of players in big games. But then all players here are world class. It's just been proven over the history of football that, other than few exceptions, when teams are equally solid in defense and midfield battle, the team contins players with more 'x-factor' in attack would win.
It's definitely a matter of taste. But regardless of my (a bit) more solid defense and DM protection, I'd bet my money on Savicevic-Del Piero-Papin to create something better than Kaka-Crespo-Rossi.
Defense: Sanchis, Angloma. And Dabid Bia, all-time Spanish NT goalscorer (or is it Torres?); a more recognized striker than Papin, but I think Papin has more pace and a lot physical than him.
I was going to say this, myself. In such a tight game, the team with more players that can produce moments of magic will have a greater chance of getting a goal.
Still, I feel that, with the amount of possession Cutch's team may have, and the fact that they also have some difference makers in their team, it can still go either way
.All said and done, I think @Cutch team is wonderful. His is actually that inspired me to get rid of Rivaldo, and switched to get 3 TP in defense.
And the big part of it, thanks to you getting your load early on Costacurta, and me getting Baresi
. Although seems like that money I spurt on him, should be best to replace Benarrivo with Lizarazu (who went for a fecking penny). Or Brehme, if only Annah didn't threat me with death puppy.I think this change is slightly better. Savicervic and Del P's trickery and movement may just give Ballack's and his runs to box with a clear chance at the goal.
Infact I dont think Rijkaard is winning any votes for you here. You can experiment dropping him for one more striker also.