I voted for Isotope. Its rapidly reaching that stage in a draft where I end up sitting out the voting as there's so little to seperate the teams, but Del Piero and Savicevic behind Papin looks incredible to me. I have my reservations about the tactical instruction for Rijkaard to pick up Pirlo (Ballack seems capable of making a decent stab at that and he's in the right area of the pitch anyway) but Iso's midfield is brutally powerful. Hierro's superb passing from cenre back hasn't really been commented on but could be a real difference-maker here.
Auction Draft QF2 : Cutch vs Isotope
- Thread starter Moby
- Start date
Yeah. Definitely. Cutch wrote a better tactic than mine on the OP. So, maybe his team would find a way against mine. But then I see both teams, and I can see my team would win 6 out of 10 gamesI was going to say this, myself. In such a tight game, the team with more players that can produce moments of magic will have a greater chance of getting a goal.
Still, I feel that, with the amount of possession Cutch's team may have, and the fact that they also have some difference makers in their team, it can still go either way.
.I think that would be near-suicidal against the proven quality of Cutch's diamond. As it stands I'd possibly give Iso a slight edge in midfield, but take away his best midfielder and its Cutch's hands down.
Very odd indeed. Rijkaard from my memory has always been a big vote winner here. Isotope positioning him slightly odd has not helped but very little focus on him here.
Thanks, mate. 'Older' drafters can testify that my team's theme is to always have attackers who are capable of switching positions, and not restricted to certain position. I think our United 2007 (or was it 2008) system with Ronaldo, Rooney, Nani, and Tevez moving around freely, and Robben-Muller-Ribery with Munich 2012, are just how football 'supposed to be' played.
That Rijkaard on Pirlo of course when Pirlo is on attacking mode, on area where possession is actually matter; not in the sense of sticking to him like Park from the front.
Note: and thanks for that formation suggestion. Although on the initial fm, Ballack would be naturally more advance than the 2 others.
Dropping Rijkaard would unbalance the team, I think. Cutch has a very good midfield, and Desailly alone won't be able to contain them. What formation are you thinking?
Seems like every team has to have man-marking tactic here in the draft. Where questions asked, who's going to mark who, winger vs fullback, and everything is 1 vs 1.
In actual game, it's rarely like that. Modern style is more on team strong enough to defend as a unit, and attack as a unit, combined with high pressing.
A game with teams of relatively equal quality, is usually won by who can press more and limiting space within opponent players. Even team with lesser players quality, but more organized and powerful, is most likely to win the game.
Yes, the numbers game can be annoying.
Had the feeling this would go down to the wire.
Aye, its valid to bring up but it gets taken way too far at times. Credit to both of the managers here for not going down that road.
Sometimes it is relevant. When you have winger + full back ganging up on a sole full back, it is fair to ask that who will help him out.
But in a MF battle to assign, A will take care of B, C of D and so on is pointless and makes no sense.
Really difficult game, I think Cutch has a slight edge with his all around proven partnerships but he did start off on the wrong foot and Isotope would have taken that advantage for sure I think. So for now I will abstain from voting, really itching towards voting towards a draw but I hate it when people do that when I play so I won't.
Havent thought this through as a bit busy atm, but make it a 5-3-2. A 3 man defence would free up your winger totally and mabe put a dampner on Kaka. That should balance the advantage of his midfield out and enhance your superiority on the wide areas.
I get your point but in this, he needs to contain Pirlo and Cafu. Without them two strikers can be starved off as the threat from Gattuso/Seedorf will be comparitively more manegeable. Going purely by votes, Rijkaard is not helping him now and so may be worth a shot otherwise.
The game's still wide open though. I see the logic of throwing on the extra striker, but i'd definitely leave it until the last hour or half hour if I was to do it at all. Even then I'd bench Desailly over Rijkaard.
This is where your biggest problem is - you're ignoring the creativity Cutch has from firstly Seedorf, but more importantly Pirlo. He offers more in terms of splitting a defence open than all of your midfield combined.
Very silly to present Cutch's creativity as Kaka-Crespo-Rossi, whilst ignoring the best passer on the pitch.
As has been said as well, Kaka was never just a passer - that wasn't his role. The creativity, penetration and control came from Pirlo in deep positions which allowed Kaka to get forward to score over 70 goals in four seasons and become the Top Scorer in the Champions League.
Of course, Kaka was capable of pulling off fantastic passes in his own right
Can't make a call on this one. I feel it would be unfair to either manager to cast a vote here - so I'm abstaining. This ends 0-0 for me - and anything beyond that is a lottery.
Such a difficult game to vote in, I must abstain from voting. Cutch has a slight edge for me, but he entered the match with the wrong set up and if Isotope played the first 30 minutes against that team I think he'd be as likely to score then as Cutch would be the last 60.
Baresi and Hierro makes a rather odd sweeper sweeper combination compared to Baresi-Desailly, Hierro is better in the midfield than Desailly as well when you want a box to box player and absolute majestic goal scorer from that role. Doesn't matter if a change is made now as it is too late, but I think that would have edged me to see goals here instead of two defensive monster set-ups.
Baresi and Hierro makes a rather odd sweeper sweeper combination compared to Baresi-Desailly, Hierro is better in the midfield than Desailly as well when you want a box to box player and absolute majestic goal scorer from that role. Doesn't matter if a change is made now as it is too late, but I think that would have edged me to see goals here instead of two defensive monster set-ups.
Think too much has been made of this. I took a gamble going into the game to try and seize the initiative as both teams were ridiculously well setup defensively. The inclusion of Baggio combining with Kaka committing the likes of Hierro and Benarrivo and supplying Rossi would have been enough to break the deadlock before I reverted to the other lineup. Albertini would have done a job ala Pirlo, and therefore the only area I was weakening was bringing in Panucci, a capable defender in his own right but who matched up fine against his opposite number Benarrivo. I didn't see Panucci and Albertini making the team weaker defensively at all.
Anyway, irrelevant now and I've paid the price.
It is more about your competitive advantage being your cohesiveness and overall perfect undoubtable set-up and partnerships. Individually I think Isotope has a better team, so when you turned the game to be more about individual players I think he had an edge there for a while if that makes sense?
Like I said I think with the cohesiveness you have an advantage here and would get back in the game, but I can't see you scoring two as his defense is outstanding as well.
I thought my attack was on another level to Isotope's with Kaka (2007), Baggio (1994) and Rossi (1982) on the pitch at the one time. I thought the defence and midfield would have lost very little cohesion and been just as likely to stop Iso from scoring.
I love how these drafts go through fads: voting for the underdog/pity votes, then voting whoever is losing to make it the draw you see, then voting for draws to have fun with penos... now we have votes drying up due to conscientious objectors.@crappycraperson, have a word
How did Hierro-Sanchis work then? I don't understand how defenders like Baresi or Hierro can be so summarily labelled as one type of defender or another. It's a fantastic rock solid partnership, no two ways about it. And there's Thuram tucking in to boot. Same at the other end, mind.
Funny that last game the goalscoring CM version of Hierro got zero credit and people wanted Rijkaard ahead and Hierro holding. All three are in their best positions here: Rijkaard unshackled from being the sole DM or purely a DM, Desailly was a better DM than Hierro and better at that than as a CB, and what Hierro could do in midfield Ballack is doing while no other player here could provide his passing from deep.
Fair enough! Cheers. I would have preferred Hierro and Ballack with Rijkaard behind though. Has an awful lots of goals in it while still being very balanced and taking advantage of the relatively defensive full-backs of the team in Thuram especially.
Defensively you lost little, I agree. The problem to me was what you lost in terms of Pirlo dictating and Cafú rampaging forward. I've covered that before but, even if Baggio and Kaká worked (I wasn't too clear on that after seeing Baggio really in his element last time out) I would have benched Rossi then. Crespo may not have got a Golden Ball or lit up a WC like Rossi did, but what Rossi has on Crespo was unnecessary/well covered in that scenario, you just needed a more pure striker to go along with those two, which is what Crespo is IMO.
I would sooner have Hierro's presence to deal with crosses and start moves from deep than bank on his goals from midfield. In a tight game like this that adds real value, while having a second CM letting fly from range is a bit of a luxury option. Ballack, Savicevic and Del Piero can all shoot from range if needs be and are better suited to try unlock that defence with a moment of magic (Savicevic in particular). I would sooner secure them good service from deep than add a fourth chap trying to squeeze in a belter.
What I would have liked from the trio of Hierro-Rijkaard-Ballack is that they would have used the fact that Rijkaard is the best ever in the defensive box to box role. You can play him behind two more offensive box to box players and you have three players defending and three attacking while still being defensively solid.
Now he is putting more offensive responsibility in the full-backs, than if his midfield was capable of providing more of the support for the three up front - which they would have been in my eyes. His full-backs are more suited for that defensive role than trying to dominate the wide areas against Maldini and Cafu, who are more suited for that role.
Just my take on it.
There's no way you would send all three midfielders forward and leave Kaká unattended, that's why the initial graphic made sense to me: Desailly holds the fort while Rijkaard and Ballack are free to support the attack. Christ, he has Savicevic and Del Piero behind Papin, why would he have to go full spacker with all three midfielders bombing forward?
Where's @Isotope? Fat lady is warming up for this one.
1 vote in it.
Cutch team looks like a well oiled unit,Players knowing each other is a huge advantage.Some brilliant players on both sides but I'm going with Cutch.
What a tough game that was. Brilliant job by Isotope on the upgrades, such a good defense he has ended up with. Definately not much between the 2 teams.
Congrats Cutch, timely subs really helped you there. Hard luck, Iso. Two quality teams.
Congrats to both managers, good game that was!
Brilliant game Cutch, some fast changes and you were back in the dominant position.
Indeed, no messing about at all. Good stuff.
The theme won you that game, it's such a complementary and proven side that its hard to argue against. Pirlo is a worthy player to build a side around so it was good that he got back on the pitch and into his best role.
Hopefully the upgrades go better this time!
Couldn't believe it yesterday, left the house at the start of the game, checked the phone about half hour later and was already losing 5 fecking 1! Couldn't get home quick enough to make them subs
Now that it's over, honest clearly agenda-free question here. Sure, Cafú > Benarrivo, but does anyone seriously think Benarrivo couldn't cope with Cafú? We are talking about a fullback who started for Italy even when their obvious first choice would be to take the entire Milan backline, won two UEFA Cups, a Super Cup, lost a CWC Final... sure he must have faced far trickier widemen than Cafú?
Not underrating Cafú at all, he performs an essential role there, but everyone seemed to give it for granted he would piss on Benarrivo all game long despite Cafú having to worry about Del Piero at the other end and Rijkaard being at hand to support. His support to link up was Gattuso, while Benarrivo could count on Del Piero and Rijkaard going forward.
I don't think it was anywhere near as one-sided as portrayed by most.
Not underrating Cafú at all, he performs an essential role there, but everyone seemed to give it for granted he would piss on Benarrivo all game long despite Cafú having to worry about Del Piero at the other end and Rijkaard being at hand to support. His support to link up was Gattuso, while Benarrivo could count on Del Piero and Rijkaard going forward.
I don't think it was anywhere near as one-sided as portrayed by most.
Wow. Cutch won by 4 votes? I'm somewhat surprised. I thought this would go down to a draw or a close win to either team. Both teams were out of this world to me.
For me, what helped Cafu was that del Piero wouldn't have spent much time out on the left channel. To me, he seems to play as more of an inside forward who would spend more time in the middle areas than wider away. This is where Gattuso is key for me, I feel. He can slow down Iso's attack enough so that Cafu could make it back and start to deal with the attack.
I doubt that anyone would have thought that Cafu would dominate Benarrivo. Both are excellent full backs, of course.
For me, what helped Cafu was that del Piero wouldn't have spent much time out on the left channel. To me, he seems to play as more of an inside forward who would spend more time in the middle areas than wider away. This is where Gattuso is key for me, I feel. He can slow down Iso's attack enough so that Cafu could make it back and start to deal with the attack.
Congrats, cutch. At least i'm losing to a good team with an early good strategy by cutch, going for 2 pt defence.
I was playing a catch up, but am proud to be able to build this side in such limited budget at 2nd round.
Feel sorry for people who were on my side, and could see what I was trying to build with this team. If only I have more time to put better fight, maybe things could be different.
Anyway, I think @Cutch will contribute more to the draft than me, and can definitely see his team on the final.
I was playing a catch up, but am proud to be able to build this side in such limited budget at 2nd round.
Feel sorry for people who were on my side, and could see what I was trying to build with this team. If only I have more time to put better fight, maybe things could be different.
Anyway, I think @Cutch will contribute more to the draft than me, and can definitely see his team on the final.