True, but Gentile is likely to come up against your attack in an organised defence rather than in transition plus pace isn't as important in their 4231 esque setup.
Auction-Trade Madness Draft-SF: 2Mufc0/Theon vs. Enigma/RVP
- Thread starter Indnyc
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
One other question, did the Total Footballing teams of the 70s and Cruyff's Dream team have sweeper esque keepers? From what I've read Kopke is a solid keeper but nothing suggests he was that good with his feet.
Well the funding constraints are such that we can't upgrade every position as we would like. And it was you who actually wanted to keep the GOAT's out and get guys like this game time. Can't have it both ways Edgar, easily could have picked some more flashy name but went with a plan and tried to stay true to it, hope people can appreciate that.
And yes he's the perfect fit for this system, rated very high in Holland and paved the way for all the stars that came after. If you have a spare 5-10 mins here's a nice overview of his career:
http://www.football-oranje.com/hall-of-fame-faas-wilkes/
Sadly that's the nature of the players of those eras, there's hardly any footage, but thing is guys like Kubala getting rated so don't see why Wilkes shouldn't be afforded the same concessions. Ive posted plenty of material about him in previous games and the link above if you want to find out more about him.
But would also reiterate reasons why he's still in the team in my reply to Edgar above.
Well that would be true in a normal setup with wingers that will track back but their wingers offer very little defensive work rate. He will find himself isolated often, if he drags players from the centre that only leaves spaces in central areas for our midfielders and Cruyff to exploit.
There are full games with Kubala available, I don't think there are recorded matches with Wilkes.
Yeah, that's why I try not to pick pre-footage players at all if I have a choice. A bit unfair to them, but those wide descriptions don't create a clear picture of a player.
Are there? Where can I watch them? I remember picking him a few drafts back but only a few glimpses here and there of him.
That's why I think a Historians Draft could be good where all the plays have very limited footage so everyone is in the same boat with match reports etc.
Both Ronaldinho and Robben like to cut into central areas overlapping with Rivelinho, there's too much conflict in that attack with players operating in the same positions While on paper it looks great stylistically I don't see it functioning well.
Gentile hasn't been sent off in a professional game - just to put it in perspective. Sure in modern game forwards are protected much more, but I think you are really underrating him. He used to play all over the backline as full back, center back and man marker, he was pretty versatile and defender in the purest form. Faced some of the all time greats like Zico, Maradona and didn't look out of place but did pretty good against them - pacy, tricky forwards with lots of flair.
He wasn't a man marker all the time either..
We opted for two defensively and tactically very solid players instead of an anchor man due to the 4 man attack and that IMO being more solid base than a pure destroyer. Both didn't play with a pure destroyer in zona mista or Caree Magique and excelled there. In essence the reason we went with Sammer is the very same that we have one of them dropping in, whilst not losing steel in midfield.
He has for Bayern mate. He cuts in a lot because he's one of Bayern's main goalscoring threats, but tactically he always has been very consistent IMO and a smart player proven over time.
Out of all modern wingers Robben is one of those who can do that consistently, considering most of the wingers are inverted forwards nowadays. He can be both a provider and a goalscorer - close to older more conventional wingers of the past. He will of course receive occasional support from Tardelli and the other attackers around him, but with our formation and tactics his job is to create numerical advantage when he gets the ball beating his marker and using his pace when we see openings in that channel - he's excellent and natural in both.
As a stopper I rate him, but he wouldn’t last a minute in the modern game. Although he gets praise for his performances against Zico and Maradona I don’t particularly like the way he did it and football shouldn’t be played that way either. Saying that I’ve watched that Italy and Brazil game and despite the roughness zico still did pretty well.
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Na mate, he cuts in because he doesn’t like using his right foot. He’s notorious for it, not saying it’s a bad thing as he’s superb with his left but don’t expect him to get down the byline and cross with his right foot.
He was sent off once in a European Cup match, I remember as I picked him in a Monopoly draft on that red card qualification. Also its really tough to compare between eras as the standards of red cards has varied a lot between leagues and eras.
http://www.worldfootball.net/player_summary/claudio-gentile/
Also what games serve as a good example of Gentile's zonal marking?
Depends. For Holland NT in the 70's they had Jongbloed and despite not as good as Neuer type of sweeper keeper was definitely one in the same mold, albeit historically early to call him that.
For Ajax they had Stuy who I always thought was a weak spot and was referred as Heinz Croquette - due to his blunders and being generally average at the goal.
If we go by Cruyff's philosophy he often cites the keeper being part of the team both in and out of possession in a sense that he has to be a good outfield player, but in practice I'm not sure if I'd rank Stuy as one..
Granted, not the best of them, but there are at least 3:
http://footballia.net/players/laszlo-kubala
It's a good website that allows you to search for a specific players
Rivelino played with 3 other #10's who liked to cut in and occupy the central area of the pitch - he did pretty fine. I don't think there is a base to say he would get in someone's way tbh.
Come one mate, he played in an era which was far from the 50's and 60's or early 30's where you can get away with a murder.. Everything was televised in color and he did pretty fine against great players. That's nonsense. Granted you don't rate him that high but his accolades speak for itself - world champion and part of the team of the tournament both in the EURO and WC. 6 Seria A titles and several international tournaments.
Saying he won't adjust in todays game is speculation at best.
Not really. You've had ample opportunities to upgrade him. You just chose not to.
another compilation of his passes and assists. Notice the lack of overlapping full back in most of the videos and how he uses the space around him either to dribble or attract defenders.
Robben's style is one that wouldn't need consistent overlapping, especially in counter attacking setup.
Granted I haven’t watched every game in his career but he’s often praised and his gold standard reference is the 82 World Cup esp vs Brazil, are you really saying he wouldn’t get sent of after his second or third tackles in this game?
Piet Keizer was rated higher than Cruyff. I've read that article and respect you sticking true to youyr philosophy. Just thinking you have not reinforced optimally .
Yes and I’ve given reasons why. We could have got someone like Rooney or Villa but wanted to stick with the theme. Again it’s double standards that you’re expecting goat reinforcements but you designed the draft so regular goats don’t feature. Make your mind up.
Nice find mate. But still over 500 games and 1 red card doesn't really make him a liability to be sent off.
During Italy's WC run he was only marking Maradona and Zico from memory. In other games it was Oriali who was playing in the DM zone where the man marker was supposed to be. In other games I'm pretty sure Italy played with CB's who were in zonal marking - same in the final for example, where Oriali was in the man marker zone.
Cruyff pretty much developed the fecking style to what it became.
And Keizer costs 80m, give your head a wobble mate.
All I'm saying is that he'll adjust in todays game. When he was on yellow he usually held himself not to be sent off, proven in the other more then 500 instances when he stayed on the pitch. I rate Gentile pretty highly in terms of pure defensive ability. He's not the "Rolls Royce" type of defender or the brilliant reader of the game, but has proven his defensive credentials on number of times and at the highest level against the highest opposition.
He isn't isolated here as well. We're playing in a back four with two great in defensive sense midfielders who protect the back four, whilst playing on counter most of the time.
And how much did you spend on Davids?
Cruyff pretty much developed the fecking style to what it became.
And Keizer costs 80m, give your head a wobble mate.
I Don't think Haan is any upgrade on Jansen in that role. You can have easily played Haan in midfield and upgraded Wilkes.
Our Sadly AWOL Bayern fan and drafting community stalwart Balu posted this back in 2014. I watched quite a bit of Bayern back then and I agreed with him at the time:
He was a consistent threat attacking the byline at his peak and I don't really see him getting in the way of Rivelino and Ronaldinho much at all.
I think Robben and Ribery worked quite well due to the kind of number 10's Bayern have had over the years and because Ribery was not your dribbling all over the pitch ball hogging, space demanding winger.
It really was a match made in heaven from Bayern's POV.
I can't say the same about Ronaldinho who is nothing like Ribery.
And while I appreciate a lot of Rivellino's deeper game and work rate, he was not in the same mould as Xavi or Deco.
Leaves too much of overlapping for my liking to let the players express themselves to their best in a all time draft like this.
A right footed right winger like Conti or Beckham would have been excellent and is a no brainer upgrade for your team in the next round IMO.
Come on mate, that is a bit misleading.
In 1970, he was not the center piece where he would be part of everything that goes forward.
I really appreciate players like Rivellino and Rivera getting good runs in an all time draft in a position they deserve (props to @Edgar Allan Pillow for that), but when you use Rivellino in the way he is used here, you can on longer use the 1970 argument. He was underused there compared to what his talent demanded and just about fit into the team to good effect. Pele, not Zagallo, deserves credit for that if I remember reading about it correctly, who pushed for Rivellino to occupy that spot.
I'm here
.Saying Rivelino, Robben and Ronaldinho don't fit together is the same as saying Iniesta, Neymar and Messi wouldn't fit together, in short, it's plain wrong. Rivelino was a playmaker, a real playmaker at that. Plays further than the midfielders, but not exactly in the 'hole'. That's where Dinho comes in as he was more of a trequatista, who used to have the capability to move wide, and Robben, a wideman who specialized in goals, he'd love to play with these as his job would be much easier. It's the perfect set up really.
Don't have any problems with that front 6 personally, looks brilliant and Robben is a great fit.
From what I have seen, for club he had played the in the hole role and was his best there. I am not sure if the Iniesta comparison is apt.
Ok, I'm sold
Good to see you mateI'm here
. Any plans to get involved in the drafts again?Gone for @Enigma_87 I'm now happy with Robben and can see that front four working really well and will cause serious damage on the counter.