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Auction-Trade Madness Draft-SF: 2Mufc0/Theon vs. Enigma/RVP

With players at career peak, who will win this match?


  • Total voters
    23
  • Poll closed .

Indnyc

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Team 2Mufc0/Theon



Vs.

Team Enigma/Red Viper



Tactics Team 2Mufc0/Theon

FORMATION: Dutch 3-4-3

Our team is based on the Dutch total football philosophy and all players have been carefully selected to play in this system - with a focus on the ability to interchange positions and contribute to all phases of the game. The team has been built around Cruyff in terms of personal, formation and philosophy - we have proven partnerships all over the pitch and are setup to dominate the match against the opposition.

In attack Ruud Gullit, Hristo Stoichkov and Faas Wilkes act as fluid, roaming forwards - the physicality and technical quality of Stoichkov ('94 Ballon d'Or winner who scored 91 goals in 174 games for Cruyff at Barcelona) well complimented by the goalscoring dynamism of Wilkes (Cruyff's hero growing up, who rattled 35 goals in 38 games for Holland) and the gold-standard when it comes to 'total football' Ruud Gullit ('87 Ballon d'Or winner and Captain of the Dutch '88 Euro winning side). As the heartbeat of the team, we have moved Cruyff to a central attacking position with a full licence to influence the game - regularly interchanging with the front three in a fluid set-up. In midfield Neeskens/Van Hanegem/Davids provide the perfect total football base - set to dominate possession whilst also providing immense defensive steel in the middle of the park. It would be difficult for any midfield composition to better this three, as a unit it simply has it all and should run rings around the opposition.

Probably the single most important aspect of our 3-4-3 is the fluidity of the players and ability to switch positions instinctively, whether it be Cruyff interchanging with Stoichkov/Gullit or Davids switching with Van Hanegem - there is an absolute abundance of players comfortable in multiple roles and that total football style of football, which promises to be a nightmare for any team to contain. It also allows freedom for our attackers to find space and influence the game esp Cruyff who will be looked to be man marked, in this sort of system man marking will rip the opposition shape into pieces.

Defensively the team is marshalled by Ronald Koeman - arguably the finest defensive passer in the history of the game and the archetypical sweeper for this style. He will replicate the role he played in Cruyff's Barcelona, running the game from the back and launching counter attacks with his exquisite passing. On the right we have moved Haan back into his '74 defensive role where he provides a more natural fit for this philosophy and most importantly allows us to play the Cruyff high-line to constantly pressurise the opposition.

Partnering Koeman in the left is Paolo Montero, a physically gifted defender in terms of speed and power who was excellent in a high-line for Menotti's Peñarol - both Montero and Haan were comfortable in the CB position and will cover Koeman when he moves forward. In goal is Andreas Kopke, IFFHS World's best keeper in 1996 and German footballer of the year 1993.

WHY WE WILL WIN:
  1. Dominance of possession: With an abundance of ball-playing ability throughout the side we will look to dominate territory and dictate the game, suffocating the supply to their attackers and with offensive quality throughout the side we are bound to create chances and score.
  2. Fluidity on the ball: The movement in this team is unparalleled - players are capable of playing a multitude of positions and will look to create space and drag defenders out of position, led by the irrepressible Johan Cruyff and Johan Neeskens. For periods of the game the opposition will be chasing shadows.
  3. High-Line and Dutch pressing - With the introduction of Davids, Haan is free to move back to defence which enables the Dutch high-line and pressing (as seen for 70's Ajax, '74-'78 Holland, Dream Team Barcelona, as well as disciples of Cruyff such as Pep's Barca)
  4. Complimentary style: The core of our team is made up of players who know and succeeded in the total football philosophy - this chemistry throughout the side enhances the performance of the team as it did in ‘74 and Cruyff's Dream Team.
  5. Distribution from deep: An undoubted legend of the game and regular one man defence for Cruyff’s Barcelona, in this sort of set-up Koeman becomes turbo-charged in terms of his influence. With Haan and Montero tucking in, Koeman has the perfect platform to instigate attacks and provide the platform for our possession based style in midfield and attack.
Tactics Enigma/Red Viper

Formation: 4-2-3-1 fluid, counter attacking.
Defensive line: normal - zona mista-ish
Style: very direct, fast tempo. More attacking left wing with Marcelo and Ronaldinho, equal goal threat both through the middle and on the flanks. Compact in midfield and at the back.

Short team profiles:

(GK) De Gea - steadily becoming one of the best keepers to have graced the game. Imperious for United and probably the outstanding player we have had since Fergie retired.
(LB/LWB) Marcelo Vieira - Probably the best attacking modern day full back. Marcelo has won 4 La Liga titles and 3 CL medals to his name, being absolutely vital for both attack and defence at Real. Another big game player who doesn't shy under pressure.
(RB/RCB) Claudio Gentile - Rugged ruthless defender - one of the centerpieces in the most successful Juve side in the late 70's, early 80's. Excellent defender becoming notorious for marking out players like Maradona and Zico quite successfully and limiting their game and effect on the match at the highest level.
(Libero) Matthias Sammer - not many defenders have won the Ballon D'or on the back of great defensive displays both for club and country. A colossal figure and modern day Beckenbauer he wasn't that far off from his predecessor in terms of quality.
(LCB) Rune Bratseth - the best Norwegian player of all time. Led Norway to the WC in 94. World class in three seasons according to Kicker in the late 80's early 90's. Fast as hell, comfortable on the ball and rock solid at the back. A complete defender in a class of his own.
(LCM) Jean Tigana - From Claude Makelele to Didier Deschamps and even now N'Golo Kante, France have had some geniuses in this position, but none finer than Jean Tigana. A really classy central midfielder, Tigana had it all; stamina, technique, vision. He won 52 caps for the national team, winning the European Championships and making two World Cup semi-finals. Tigana was runner-up to compatriot Michel Platini in the 1984 Ballon d'Or.
(RCM) Marco Tardelli - Hard tackling midfielder, epitomizing the Catenaccio era, but very skillful on the ball and excellent in transition, alongside Tigana forms a top notch midfield unit.
(AM) Rivellino - Integral part of Brazil's best team ever he was one of those players who can dribble you in a phone booth and was an example for the younger generation. He possessed enormous flair and talent with a cannonball of a shot(named “The Atomic Kick”).
(LWF) Ronaldinho - Another Ballon D'or winner and at his peak there are very few that can claim to be better. True artist of the game who could take any defence apart in his heyday.
(RWF) Arjen Robben - one of the best right wingers in the game second only to Figo in the last 20-30 years. Explosive, with tons of pace and great goalscoring output.
(CF) Gerd Müller - One of Europe's elite. Probably the most deadly finisher the game has seen. Simple quote from Beckenbauer says it all:

Team tactics and style:

Defence -
marshaled by Sammer, our defence is complimented a rugged defender in Gentile who will tuck in centrally to counter Stoichkov's threat and a complete defender in Bratseth - equally adapt in the air and on the ground. Marcelo will be an attacking LB stretching the opposition defence and providing width on the left. Sammer will play in his natural role whilst Bratseth and Gentile will stay back when he surges in and one of our double pivot midfielders will cover for him when he overloads the midfield.
Midfield - Tigana and Tardelli will form the double pivot midfield base - both solid in the defensive phase and able to contribute forward. Rivellino will be no stranger to the midfield battle as his work rate is well appreciated.
Attack - a GOAT striker in Müller who will get plenty of support both from the flanks and Marcelo on the left. A great attacking unit with plenty of flair - Ronaldinho, Rivelino, Robben, top class finisher in the box in Muller and goalscoring threats out wide in our wingers. Our attack would be very difficult to handle with plenty of pace, technique and ruthless finishing.

Advantages:
Attack -
2mufc/Theon obviously have great attack led by Cruyff, but IMO we're taking it even a bit further. Muller is the best finisher on the pitch and he's getting plenty of service. 2mufc/Theon are most likely playing a back three and his defenders will get stretched on numerous occasions by Ronaldinho/Marcelo and Robben. It's not only the flanks but through the middle we have one of the best Brazillian playmakers and #10 in Rivelino who has a solid base in midfield protected by Tardelli and Tigana. With so much variety and obviously quality we would provide to be too much for a narrow back three for 2/T.
Midfield - we'd probably share that considering the quality in both teams. Davids/Neeskens is a great player but Tardelli and Tigana don't fall behind either. Both teams have additional players who could influence the midfield - Gullit/van Hanegem for 2/T and Sammer, Rivelino for us. We will be compact there, especially against a more narrow opposition set up and hit them on the counter, whilst obviously not fall back very deep.
Defence - We have the best defender on the pitch in Sammer who is also a very good fit to limit Cruyff's influence - both stylistically and in terms of quality. Gentile also is the right type to counter Stoichkov - defensively great RB/RCB who also tucks in when Stoichkov cuts centrally. Bratseth/Marcelo also compliment really well with Bratseth covering the LCB channel when Marcelo goes further up the pitch.

Individual battles - Robben and Ronaldinho IMO have an advantage against Montero and whoever the makeshift RCB 2/T will pick. Robben especially is not a good fit for Montero considering his rash temperament and that he's up against a fast, tricky winger, whilst also covering centrally. Koeman is a obviously excellent defender with top credentials, but Muller has advantage both in the air and on the deck. Koeman wasn't one of the fastest CB around and neither that particularly good in the air. His strengths was the distribution and organization at the back. Muller would get plenty of chances especially with the service he gets and he doesn't need many to put the ball in the net.

Our wingers and their pace and trickery - Ronaldinho and Robben are two of the best one-on-one players of all time. Trickery and close control combined with great turn of pace, Montero and Haan/Jansen/Neeskens will have a nightmare dealing with Robben and Ronaldinho respectively.

Goalkeepers - worth mentioning that we have the superior keeper for this. DDG is fast becoming one of the best in history and is level above his counterpart.
 

2mufc0

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Thanks @IndyDC for setting up. Good luck enigma and TRV.

Some initial points :

  • Robben is the completely wrong type of player to have on the RW in a zona mista setup he doesn't have the defensive skills or work rate to run the whole flank. Esp with Davids and Stoichkov on that side.
  • On work rate - Rivelinho, Ronaldinho and Robben won't put a shift in like our attackers will. I feel we can over run them esp with counter attacks launched by the likes of Koeman.
  • Gullit will dominate Marcelo physically
  • Superior midfield
  • If Sammer is watching Cruyff he will drag him out of position all over the pitch
Going out for a bit. Back soon.
 

harms

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You can see in their facial expressions how the players become more and more miserable as they move away from Ronaldinho.
 

Enigma_87

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Thanks @IndyDC for setting up. Good luck enigma and TRV.

Some initial points :

  • Robben is the completely wrong type of player to have on the RW in a zona mista setup he doesn't have the defensive skills or work rate to run the whole flank. Esp with Davids and Stoichkov on that side.
  • On work rate - Rivelinho, Ronaldinho and Robben won't put a shift in like our attackers will. I feel we can over run them esp with counter attacks launched by the likes of Koeman.
  • Gullit will dominate Marcelo physically
  • Superior midfield
  • If Sammer is watching Cruyff he will drag him out of position all over the pitch
Going out for a bit. Back soon.

Just to recap some of the points here right off the bat not to create confusion.

Our defensive setup reminds zona mista - in a sense that we have Gentile in tucked in defensive RB, a libero in Sammer, complete CB in Bratseth and an attacking full back - wing back in Marcelo.

Our midfield/attack is quite different and we're not trying to recreate zona mista setup here.

The zona mista reference is just to try to elaborate of our defensive setup and roles.

Basically we have a 4-2-3-1 here with more defensive RB->tucking into RCB position, a natural right winger to provide the width in attack, more attacking left side with two defensively great B2B midfielders to provide defensive cover in midfield/wide.
 

idmanager

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Didn't you guys have Wim Jansen in your squad as well? Much better shout for the Right defender position rather than Haan IMO.
Played this same role in the 1978 WC.

 
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idmanager

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Not quite sold on Dinho, Rivellino and Robben all in the same lineup. Rivellino can play a lot more deeper but eventually I can imagine a lot of running into each other. Those wingers do need room to run into.
Don't think there is place for Robben there both attack and defense wise.

Not the winger you need with a tucked in RB in Gentile.

Marcelo and Dinho against Haan though looks scary.
 

Enigma_87

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Not quite sold on Dinho, Rivellino and Robben all in the same lineup. Rivellino can play a lot more deeper but eventually I can imagine a lot of running into each other. Those wingers do need room to run into.
Don't think there is place for Robben there both attack and defense wise.

Not the winger you need with a tucked in RB in Gentile.

Marcelo and Dinho against Haan though looks scary.
Why out of interest mate? Rivelino is notorious to be easy to field in a team with multiple playmakers and runners, whilst obviously starring himself as shown in the 70' WC.

Robben has player with another cutting in winger (Ribery) in very similar setup attacking wise and with Lahm who also is not the Marcelo type of overlapper, whilst providing a lot of width in attack himself.

Same with Ronaldinho who played with multiple playmakers(Deco, Xavi) and is at his sweet spot here.

Robben's work rate later in his career improved a lot as he peaked and to me our attack is well balanced with players proven to excel in setups that combine the attacking style we have here on show.
 

Physiocrat

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Why out of interest mate? Rivelino is notorious to be easy to field in a team with multiple playmakers and runners, whilst obviously starring himself as shown in the 70' WC.

Robben has player with another cutting in winger (Ribery) in very similar setup attacking wise and with Lahm who also is not the Marcelo type of overlapper, whilst providing a lot of width in attack himself.

Same with Ronaldinho who played with multiple playmakers(Deco, Xavi) and is at his sweet spot here.

Robben's work rate later in his career improved a lot as he peaked and to me our attack is well balanced with players proven to excel in setups that combine the attacking style we have here on show.
I think Dinho and Rivelino are fine together. I think a more orthodox right winger would have helped here as I think Robben will drift in a bit too much to have a bigger influence and Lahm provides much more going forward than Gentile. Also I think a dedicated DM would be prefferable to allow Sammer full freedom. Really like Dinho and Marcelo though with Rivelino dropping a bit deeper feeding Der Bomber.

With 2Mufc0 I'm still dubious of Montero's fit and I really don't know much about Kopke. Info @Theon @2mufc0 ?
 

2mufc0

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Just to clarify as per previous draft rules Raees's vote doesn't count as he's already in the final. Don't want this to become a potential issue later.
 

2mufc0

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Not quite sold on Dinho, Rivellino and Robben all in the same lineup. Rivellino can play a lot more deeper but eventually I can imagine a lot of running into each other. Those wingers do need room to run into.
Don't think there is place for Robben there both attack and defense wise.

Not the winger you need with a tucked in RB in Gentile.

Marcelo and Dinho against Haan though looks scary.
It won't just be Haan mate, Neeskens will be helping out on that side when we are defending. And he's more than capable of playing that position.
 

2mufc0

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I think Dinho and Rivelino are fine together. I think a more orthodox right winger would have helped here as I think Robben will drift in a bit too much to have a bigger influence and Lahm provides much more going forward than Gentile. Also I think a dedicated DM would be prefferable to allow Sammer full freedom. Really like Dinho and Marcelo though with Rivelino dropping a bit deeper feeding Der Bomber.

With 2Mufc0 I'm still dubious of Montero's fit and I really don't know much about Kopke. Info @Theon @2mufc0 ?
Don't see why Montero is an issue? Physically supplements Koeman and is decent on the ball too.

As for Kopke 59 caps for Germany and voted German player of the year and rated best goal keeper in the world in 1996.

Read more here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andreas_Köpke
 

Enigma_87

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I think Dinho and Rivelino are fine together. I think a more orthodox right winger would have helped here as I think Robben will drift in a bit too much to have a bigger influence and Lahm provides much more going forward than Gentile. Also I think a dedicated DM would be prefferable to allow Sammer full freedom. Really like Dinho and Marcelo though with Rivelino dropping a bit deeper feeding Der Bomber.

With 2Mufc0 I'm still dubious of Montero's fit and I really don't know much about Kopke. Info @Theon @2mufc0 ?
I don't think Robben is an issue either mate. He's one of the best at providing width on the right in terms of being the one of the very last modern day wingers.

Tigana or Tardelli could easily drop in the DM zone when Sammer goes up the pitch - both have done it - Tardelli in similar set up(in midfield) and Tigana has played on more than one occasion as an anchor man in midfield.

2/T setup is too open at the back. Montero won't cope with Robben alone, not to mention Marcelo/Ronaldinho attacking the space on the right. Regardless of Neeskens help a makeshift right back against Ronaldinho is less than ideal so to speak.

Both our wingers on counter would stretch the opposition defence and leaving Muller with acres of space in the box is usually game over for the opposition.

Lahm also has tendency to cut in so it's not like Robben is not able to stretch the defence on his own. Sure he cuts in, but that's not something we won't like in this matchup especially against Montero as he can beat him with trickery and especially burn him on counter with pace.
 

Enigma_87

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It won't just be Haan mate, Neeskens will be helping out on that side when we are defending. And he's more than capable of playing that position.
I'm afraid that isn't enough against a Marcelo and peak Ronaldinho flank on that side. Ronaldinho is handful for pretty much every full back in history and he's getting the support from Marcelo who Neeskens has to mind, not Ronnie.
 

2mufc0

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The more I think about I have to disagree about Robben here @Enigma_87

He will be basically by himself with little support from Gentile and he's one of the last players you would pick to run a flank on his own.

He's best game is also cutting in and with no overlapping support it will be easier for us to deal with.

Then you have the issue of isolating Gentile who will be up against Stoichkov and Cruyff drifting left and doubling up on him. That side is a clear route to goal for us.
 

2mufc0

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I'm afraid that isn't enough against a Marcelo and peak Ronaldinho flank on that side. Ronaldinho is handful for pretty much every full back in history and he's getting the support from Marcelo who Neeskens has to mind, not Ronnie.
Ronaldinho is amazing and will cause issues but we also have Gullit who will put in a shift that side. And to be honest I'll be more worried about Marcelo defensively with no support from Ronaldinho, Gullit would bully him all game. Then you also have Neeskens popping up on that right side supporting him.

The lack of work rate on the wings would be a big liability against this system.
 

Enigma_87

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The more I think about I have to disagree about Robben here @Enigma_87

He will be basically by himself with little support from Gentile and he's one of the last players you would pick to run a flank on his own.

He's best game is also cutting in and with no overlapping support it will be easier for us to deal with.

Then you have the issue of isolating Gentile who will be up against Stoichkov and Cruyff drifting left and doubling up on him. That side is a clear route to goal for us.
You don't have Cruyff doubling on him as either Sammer or Tardelli will intercept Cruyff. We have enough bodies in defence and Tardelli and Tigana are as good as it gets defensively.

Ronaldinho is amazing and will cause issues but we also have Gullit who will put in a shift that side. And to be honest I'll be more worried about Marcelo defensively with no support from Ronaldinho, Gullit would bully him all game. Then you also have Neeskens popping up on that right side supporting him.

The lack of work rate on the wings would be a big liability against this system.
Well you have three at the back tho. You have to shift your entire midfield on that side just to help out a makeshift RB. No player is faster than the ball and with Sammer, Rivellino, etc we can switch the flank with ease and carve your defence.

On the other hand we have 4 at the back and double pivot defensively great midfielders protecting the defence. Our defensive base is much more solid than a 3-4-3 when you expect a possession game as well.

Neither of your full backs - Montero or Haan are particularly quick hence on counters I don't think they are good match for Ronnie or Robben. They'll get caught up on numerous occasions IMO on the break.
 

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Love @2mufc and @Theon's 3-3-3-1 effort from a tactical perspective. The midfield in particular is a work of art. We've seen Bielsa use a similar set-up in the past and it's pleasing to see it ramped up with GOATesque quality.

Like @The Red Viper and @Enigma_87's transfer dealings - very targeted bringing in such a potent 1v1 pairing. @Edgar Allan Pillow deserves some credit for creating a reinforcement model that made such moves a possibility.

Not really sure how to split this at the moment, it's bound to be high scoring with most defences struggling to keep tabs on what's in front of them. May come down to who gains more control of the game.
 

2mufc0

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Just to clarify our 3 defenders won’t be sitting ducks with no support as claimed, without the ball we are likely to shape up like this.
 

2mufc0

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Didn’t come out too well as I’m on the phone but would be similar to those positions.
 

Enigma_87

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Just to clarify our 3 defenders won’t be sitting ducks with no support as claimed, without the ball we are likely to shape up like this.
I'm not implying they will be sitting ducks mate, but they will be caught in transition. We have excellent passers both through the middle and wide to find either of our wingers who will stretch Montero and Haan. Montero and Haan both aren't quick off the mark and having two of the best dribblers of the game would be crucial if they are playing in the Dutch total football set up.

Going by your theme you'll try to press us when we are on the ball and your defence will push up, as well with your midfield - which will create openings at the back during transition. Our midfield, Sammer and Bratseth are excellent and comfortable on the ball which helps us counter your strategy, whilst stretching your defence and leaving Muller in between the zone of Koeman and Van Hanegem(depicted above) is a clear goal route for us.

Removing Cruyff from the false 9 position and engaging him in the midfield battle helps our defensive unit as well as I'm not sure how comfortable is Wilkes up top.
 

Enigma_87

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Great highlights of Robben - from 0:30 onwards you can easily see on numerous times how he stretches the defence on the right with no overlapping full back in sight.
 

oneniltothearsenal

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Didn't you guys have Wim Jansen in your squad as well? Much better shout for the Right defender position rather than Haan IMO.
Played this same role in the 1978 WC.

That's the tactic I thought they were going for after selling Gentile and with Jansen already in the squad.

The 3-3-1-3 is definitely more ambitious offensively so I'll have to think about this one a bit more.
 

2mufc0

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I'm not implying they will be sitting ducks mate, but they will be caught in transition. We have excellent passers both through the middle and wide to find either of our wingers who will stretch Montero and Haan. Montero and Haan both aren't quick off the mark and having two of the best dribblers of the game would be crucial if they are playing in the Dutch total football set up.

Going by your theme you'll try to press us when we are on the ball and your defence will push up, as well with your midfield - which will create openings at the back during transition. Our midfield, Sammer and Bratseth are excellent and comfortable on the ball which helps us counter your strategy, whilst stretching your defence and leaving Muller in between the zone of Koeman and Van Hanegem(depicted above) is a clear goal route for us.

Removing Cruyff from the false 9 position and engaging him in the midfield battle helps our defensive unit as well as I'm not sure how comfortable is Wilkes up top.
I think we are less prone again the counter than your lot because of the legs we have throughout the team, our whole team defends and attacks as a team, while if one of your attackers get caught in possession the likes of Ronaldinho and Robben won't be busting a gut to get back. I think we will have the numerical advantage a lot of the time esp on the right hand side, Cruyff, Stoichkov and Davids will have lots of joy against Gentile. If you want to drag central players to help out that only frees up space for Neeskens, Wilkes and Gullit to exploit .
 
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2mufc0

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Whilst attention has been shifted to his attackers against our defenders, people seriously thinking Marcelo with no support from Ronaldinho will be able to contain this powerhouse ?

 

2mufc0

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And these guys against Gentile on his own?


 

2mufc0

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Gentile is also a man marker type defender he won't cover space like he will need to against the movement of our team, he's not suited at all against us.

Isn't everyone tired of seeing all these boring 532's/352's in drafts yet? What happened to a little adventure and initiative.
 
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Physiocrat

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Don't see why Montero is an issue? Physically supplements Koeman and is decent on the ball too.

As for Kopke 59 caps for Germany and voted German player of the year and rated best goal keeper in the world in 1996.

Read more here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andreas_Köpke
Thanks for the Kopke info. My main issue with Montero is pace in this system and that he's a red waiting to happen.
 

Physiocrat

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Tigana or Tardelli could easily drop in the DM zone when Sammer goes up the pitch - both have done it - Tardelli in similar set up(in midfield) and Tigana has played on more than one occasion as an anchor man in midfield.
That's fair but I don't think it's ideal to get the best out of Tardelli or Tigana. Not a major issue though.
 

2mufc0

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Thanks for the Kopke info. My main issue with Montero is pace in this system and that he's a red waiting to happen.
Well the same could be said for Gentile esp against skillful forwards like Stoichkov and Cruyff. I'm certain if Gentile played in Monteros era he would be a walking Red card.
 

harms

Shining Star of Paektu Mountain
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What's wrong with him?
He's a player of unknown quality and attributes — everything we know of him is based on a few lines that someone wrote about him and a minute and a half clip (and the fact that Cruyff adored him). In your team especially there is a need of visualising the way your players are communicating with each other, and Wilkes doesn't help at all.
 

Physiocrat

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Great highlights of Robben - from 0:30 onwards you can easily see on numerous times how he stretches the defence on the right with no overlapping full back in sight.
No doubt he can, my issue is with what consistency will he do it. And given your setup it has to be very consistent otherwise you'll be rather lopsided in attack.