Back Mourinho this window, he's improved us, won trophies & is still rebuilding

[Treble]

Thought Jose was supposed to be a better manager than Fraudiola because he could win big tophies without having the best squads. Wasn't this his main selling point? Whereas Fraudiola can do it only with Messi and in one horse leagues like the Bundesliga? Turns out Jose has to have the most expensive squad to compete. Like he did with Chelsea vs Fergie and in Spain vs Barca.

 

[Mcking]

I'm not liking the dynamic that's playing out right now...

After watching footy for decades you start to learn the subtle ways of communication from managers/board/players etc, and right now, it's clear that Mourinho is politely nudging the board and also letting us know as fans that he wants to sign players and isn't being backed as he'd hoped.

It's a World Cup year - we all know what it'll be like in the Summer with Woodward and a World Cup year, he drags transfers on at the best of times and the World Cup will be too much for him to deal with smoothly I reckon.

So why wait? Go in for Ozil now (20m) and a wide attacker for up to 50-60m now and we'll obviously improve, and if we wait til Summer, with Woodward, we'll only end up paying more anyway for pretty much any player barring free agents.

Just fecking get it going now - back Mourinho or sack him. Don't hang him out to dry mid-way through a rebuilding job when we need to invest.

If the board don't back him, this squad will continue to sag, you can see it already, and it'll end up being a self-fulfilling prophecy - 'we didn't back him cuz we think he'll fail... see, he failed'.

This squad needs investment if you expect him to compete with the best PL teams, let alone in Europe.

Think about the talent available to other managers in the PL...

City - Aguero, Sterling, de Bruyne, Silva, Sane, Jesus, Walker

Liverpool - Coutinho, Salah, Mané, Firmino, and just dropped a hulking 75m on VVD

Spurs - Kane, Dele Alli, Eriksen, Son

Chelsea - Hazard, Morata, Fabregas, Willian, Kante

Even Arsenal with Ozil and Sanchez have two better players than we have in our whole squad.

You can't expect him to compete with citeh with what's there, and you can't expect him to turn the corner on a massive rebuilding job without backing him now.

As stated above, Woodward and a World Cup Summer would make ANY manager (or fan) nervous, so back him now, or let him go, don't hang him out to dry.

United - Lukaku, Martial, Rashford, Mkhitaryan, Mata, Pogba, Matic, Bailly.
The difference is Klopp, Pep, Conte and Poch has got them playing football. The City, Liverpool, Chelsea players were not better than ours when they joined, the difference is theirs have improved, ours have regressed.
Sane, Mane, Salah, Sterling were not better than Martial, Mkhi when they joined. The same goes for Pogba, Matic, Mata, Debruyne, Silva, Coutinho, Kante, Hazard, Fernandinho, Firmino, Lukaku, Kane, Alli, Eriksen, Son.

 

[Fracture90]

Mourinho managed de Bruyne and Salah at Chelsea. Sold them both. At Chelsea he also benched Hazard in that 3rd season. He spent 75m on fecking Lukaku here. Chose to ignore the other attacking positions and let others sign top attackers like Jesus, Sane, Salah, Mane when exactly those are the type we need.

So is it a case of Mourinho not being backed, or him just having the wrong idea of what's needed and us not going for the right players. We've spent a feck ton. And a feck tons been wasted. Of course we need to strengthen, But not if his idea of strengthening is spending 75m on players like Lukaku who wouldn't get in any of the other top 6 clubs just in the Premier League alone.

Exactly this. People can keep calling out the board and hope that Mourinho can turn it around but at the end of the day despite all that money spent all we can do is hoof the ball upfront or more recently try to drown opposition in crosses. But then again it is no surprise considering some of his former players have come out saying that he doesn't really coach that much attacking football, it's more of a "defense like I showed you, attack as you feel you should".

Manager that is relying on his flair players improvising in the final third over and over again instead of having a proper attack plan drawn out is what's our issue.

 

[Bojan11]

Ozil and Sanchez are better than Pogba and De Gea?

You've included players like Son in this supposed envious elite list of players. Bloody hell.

What’s wrong with Son? He scored more than Rashford, Lingard and Mkhitaryan combined last season.

 

[Redmurph16]

Matic and Mata are our only two players that play in a manner that indicates that they actually are a part of a football team. The rest play like kids do in a school yard purely based on individual skills and ability. When this is not enough – for one reason or another – they conseqvently play like headless chicken instead. Are our players less inteligent that other top club players or do this derive from lack of coaching at our club?

Big agreement here.
We need leadership on the field - is that down to individuals failing to take responsibility or a coaching staff who fail to develop leadership qualities in players?
I'd say it's the former.

 

[Bojan11]

Mourinho managed de Bruyne and Salah at Chelsea. Sold them both. At Chelsea he also benched Hazard in that 3rd season. He spent 75m on fecking Lukaku here. Chose to ignore the other attacking positions and let others sign top attackers like Jesus, Sane, Salah, Mane when exactly those are the type we need.

So is it a case of Mourinho not being backed, or him just having the wrong idea of what's needed and us not going for the right players. We've spent a feck ton. And a feck tons been wasted. Of course we need to strengthen, But not if his idea of strengthening is spending 75m on players like Lukaku who wouldn't get in any of the other top 6 clubs just in the Premier League alone.

You are confusing loan with sold.

Mourinho loaned Salah out. Salah was sold in August 2016, when Conte was the manager.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

If he's only staying three seasons then there's no point in him continuing imo, there needs to be clarity on what we and he wants to do long term, certainly before the summer window for sure.

The guy just seems to be going through the motions atm to me, very little passion, or interest really been displayed, and that's exactly what his players are showing too.

 

[Drawfull]

In an ideal world, there needs to be commitment from all parties before Jose is given any more money to spend. If he gets another £100m this window and leaves in the summer, unless those players fit the new manager's vision, it will be a waste of money. We are wealthy, but we don't have a bottomless pit and to give a manager a fifth of the turnover in January, when there is any chance he might not be here after May, is madness.

Since his comments before the game regarding the expected lack of purchases this window with signings to be made in the summer, maybe he's been given the same ultimatum? It's pretty much a given that whoever is manager in summer will be given funds to spend.

The other way is we give him money now and potentially continue to slip down the table which would result in his dismissal in the summer, regardless.

 

[Kapardin]

The way forward is simple. Back Mourinho to the hilt in the summer and get him whomever he needs. No more of this "no value in the market" nonsense.

If he fails even after that, then sack him. Mourinho will nonetheless leave behind a better core of players than LvG or Moyes, no doubts about that. So the improvement will not be stalled.

If you are not going to get him all the players he wants, there is no point keeping him and then moaning when our attack bottles game after game to finish 6th.

 

[JPRouve]

You are confusing loan with sold.

Mourinho loaned Salah out. Salah was sold in August 2016, when Conte was the manager.

It was a loan with option to buy.

 

[Dobbs]

The way forward is simple. Back Mourinho to the hilt in the summer and get him whomever he needs. No more of this "no value in the market" nonsense.

If he fails even after that, then sack him. Mourinho will nonetheless leave behind a better core of players than LvG or Moyes, no doubts about that. So the improvement will not be stalled.

If you are not going to get him all the players he wants, there is no point keeping him and then moaning when our attack bottles game after game to finish 6th.

That ended 5 years ago. Who has talked about "no value" during Mourinho's time?

 

[Rednotdead]

If we don't make top 4 it will be a massive failure and Mourinho will have to go. He's had long enough and enough transfer windows to produce a squad capable of at the very least a top 4 finish.

 

[Kapardin]

That ended 5 years ago. Who has talked about "no value" during Mourinho's time?

Its' just a different version of that philosophy now. "We can't make more than 2 signings" or "We can't pay 2 million more for Perisic". Different words, same thinking.

 

[Treble]

The way forward is simple. Back Mourinho to the hilt in the summer and get him whomever he needs. No more of this "no value in the market" nonsense.

If he fails even after that, then sack him. Mourinho will nonetheless leave behind a better core of players than LvG or Moyes, no doubts about that. So the improvement will not be stalled.

If you are not going to get him all the players he wants, there is no point keeping him and then moaning when our attack bottles game after game to finish 6th.

It is not simple at all. Let us see first where we are come May. Make no mistake, once things start to unravel under Jose, there is no stopping until he leaves.

 

[JPRouve]

Its' just a different version of that philosophy now. "We can't make more than 2 signings" or "We can't pay 2 million more for Perisic". Different words, same thinking.

Not when you spend +150m€.

 

[Dobbs]

Its' just a different version of that philosophy now. "We can't make more than 2 signings" or "We can't pay 2 million more for Perisic". Different words, same thinking.

We've spent £300 million in two summers. Broke the world record. Broke the club record twice. Bought more than two players in both windows. Will more than likely spend £150 next summer.

This is in not the "no value" approach of Fergie's latter years. It couldn't be more different.

The stuff you guys come out with to protect the manager is unreal.

 

[SammyUnited_83]

Jason Burt just absolutely nailed it on the Sunday Supplement.

Broken record, moaning etc etc. The end could be near.

 

[JPRouve]

We've spent £300 million in two summers. Broke the world record. Broke the club record twice. Bought more than two players in both windows. Will more than likely spend £150 next summer.

This is in not the "no value" approach of Fergie's latter years. It couldn't be more different.

The stuff you guys come out with to protect the manager is unreal.

It's actually shocking, you have to wonder how much the club has to spend in order to satisfy some fans.

 

[Ace of Spades]

Jason Burt just absolutely nailed it on the Sunday Supplement.

Broken record, moaning etc etc. The end could be near.

Can you link the article.

 

[roonster09]

Its' just a different version of that philosophy now. "We can't make more than 2 signings" or "We can't pay 2 million more for Perisic". Different words, same thinking.

Perisic wasn't signed because of 2 million, it's because they wanted Martial involved in the deal. If Perisic is make or break for Jose's tactics then he should have a hard look at the tactics. He isn't even having that good of a season (stats aside), his performance isn't as good as last season.

Also why you always talk about more signings when manager himself asked for 8 and got 7 players. Also on the attack, Matic, Pogba, Mkhitartan, Lukaku. That's 4 out of players signed by Jose and all of them had great seasons before joining ManUtd.

You are just ignoring the concept of coaching, completely underplaying it. Poch had Kane, Eriksen, Son and others whom he didn't sign and they weren't as good when he went to Spurs, now all of them are playing superbly because of all the work done on the training ground.

If every manager wants 11 of his own players to make them play as a team and following proper attacking patterns then transfer market will go bonkers.

 

[settembrini]

I would be against giving Mourinho more backing until he stops being an idiot with his tactics.

The teams he has picked from the City game onwards have been awful and it has derailed our season. His absolute insistence that we play with wingers, despite not having a single top class winger in the squad, is about as irritating as Van Gaal and his 'captain shall always play' rubbish.

It's almost as though he has trying to prove a point to Woodward/the board. 'See how terrible Mata/Mkhitaryan/Rashford are? You should have backed me on Perisic, buy me a winger in January or get ready for several more months of this!'

 

[Treble]

Perisic wasn't signed because of 2 million, it's because they wanted Martial involved in the deal. If Perisic is make or break for Jose's tactics then he should have a hard look at the tactics. He isn't even having that good of a season (stats aside), his performance isn't as good as last season.

Also why you always talk about more signings when manager himself asked for 8 and got 7 players. Also on the attack, Matic, Pogba, Mkhitartan, Lukaku. That's 4 out of players signed by Jose and all of them had great seasons before joining ManUtd.

You are just ignoring the concept of coaching, completely underplaying it. Poch had Kane, Eriksen, Son and others whom he didn't sign and they weren't as good when he went to Spurs, now all of them are playing superbly because of all the work done on the training ground.

If every manager wants 11 of his own players to make them play as a team and following proper attacking patterns then transfer market will go bonkers.

Couldn't put it better myself.

 

[Ace of Spades]

It's actually shocking, you have to wonder how much the club has to spend in order to satisfy some fans.

Apparently you need 11WC players to beat the likes of Southampton, Leicester and Burnley (who were missing some key players themselves).

 

[SammyUnited_83]

Can you link the article.

Sorry not an article just on the Sky sports programme. Sure it will be on the website later.

He has covered Jose alot and see's alot of similarities in our situation to Chelsea. He is either trying to provoke a response from the owners (in getting more players) or has had enough and wants out. Either way will come to a head soon, doesn't look happy, always complaining and it's reflecting badly. From a Utd point of view, the football isn't great, and something has to give.

 

[Dobbs]

It's actually shocking, you have to wonder how much the club has to spend in order to satisfy some fans.

I think they'd be satisfied if it was any other manager. Clearly they're big fans of Jose.
This is just the latest defense mechanism. A very transparent mechanism at that. Surely Kapardin can do better than claim we have a "no value" approach.

 

[roonster09]

It's actually shocking, you have to wonder how much the club has to spend in order to satisfy some fans.

Yeah, all this journalists are doing very lazy job in blaming people who are not involved in the first team when the issue is playing style and results.

Also blaming owners for not backing manager is bonkers when we have spent more than half billion in last 2-3 years, obviously we can't spend as much as City or PSG who are backed by oil money but for a self sufficient clubs there isn't a club that has spend as much as ManUtd.

Klopp made a remark that English league is obsessed with transfers and don't focus on coaching, he was spot on.

 

[Ace of Spades]

Sorry not an article just on the Sky sports programme. Sure it will be on the website later.

He has covered Jose alot and see's alot of similarities in our situation to Chelsea. He is either trying to provoke a response from the owners (in getting more players) or has had enough and wants out. Either way will come to a head soon, doesn't look happy, always complaining and it's reflecting badly. From a Utd point of view, the football isn't great, and something has to give.

Yeah, I can see the similarities as well. It is weird, but it has gotten so much worse after that loss to City, everything seems to fall apart. The players confidence and Jose being extra depressing lately does not bode well.

 

[Bestietom]

I was jumped on here when I said that we needed investment to bring in a winger ( Malcom) and a midfielder Fabinho or Jorginho now. Revert to playing 3 midfielders with Pogba further forward.

Chelsea have moved into second place above us and it won't be long before others leap ahead of us the way we are playing. We need to either back the manager now or change if the board think he is losing the dressing room. Is is something that we must face Now. The team and manager are not performing.

On sky sports yesterday they picked a team from City and us and we had 6 players to their 5 on the team. it was mostly in the forward line where they outshone us. So everyone cannot be wrong. Bring someone in to change it now or we will have a fight for top 4.

 

[wolvored]

Imagine if we had given the right manager the 6 year contract Moyes had, we wouldnt be here now. Perhaps its time to rethink that policy. Give a 5 year contract to a manager who would bring the kids through, who plays to the strengths of good attacking football, and can improve the players they have. Who doesnt blame all and sundry except himself for when it goes wrong, and doesnt slag off or try to play mind games with other manaagers...oh well back to the real world

 

[SammyUnited_83]

Apparently you need 11WC players to beat the likes of Southampton, Leicester and Burnley (who were missing some key players themselves).

The thing the club should be looking at is this season from here on in is almost a free hit as City have won the league regardless. They are by far the best team and have a structure in place to keep that momentum going, and, in fairness are blooding some youngsters at the same time.

Our / Jose answer seems to be let's throw some more money at it. It's a short term approach and one that hasn't served us well. Instead of looking to replace mercenaries with more mercenaries, why not give a few of the youngsters a chance? I'm not saying playing them for 90mins every game, but in a way the pressure is off, give some of the ones the coaches have high hopes for a chance to prove themselves.

The most frustrating thing for me from last season is that Tuanzebe actually looked fairly decent, yet, has barely had a sniff this year. Everyone is focussed on finishing in the top 4, yes that generates more cash, but, in the bigger picture that cash is fairly insignificant, yes it looks good on the balance sheet and satisfy's the fans that want to support the club with the best turnover, but it doesn't help build a club to play good football and the last 5 years have proven that. We all wanted to qualify for CL to get the Di Maria, the Falcaos, Pogbas and we still play boring stuff.

City have created an opportunity for us to rip it up and start again. We need to believe in our values which is building an exciting team that combines youth with experience, players that care about the club.

 

[Kag]

His time here will be looked back upon as a raging failure and he'll be sacked/leave in the near (ish) future. Which will be quite nice because the quality of football is appalling, has been for the vast majority of this calendar year (apart from one game against Watford in March and some flukey 4-0 wins in August) and shows no signs of improving.

The best attacking football we have played under Mourinho was last October/November in games we sometimes didn't even win.

In the mean time, we've spent an enormous amount of money (some of which on a woefully pointless centre half who is worse than Tuanzebe) and Mourinho continues to to pretend the world is against him.

He's an arsehole, worse still he's failing, and I'm actively looking forward to him buggering off. The rest of you, of which many are like rabid acolytes, can continue to pretend as if all of our players are shite, or that we haven't effectively bought a new spine of the side, or that the football is actually fairly ok and we're 'improving'.

I said two months ago that we would be in a battle for top four this season. People blocked me and said I was a negative arsehole (of sorts). I was right then and I think I'm right when I say this will end in tears (and a new manager) sometime quite soon.

 

[Son Of Sam]

If we're buying just 2-3 players in Summer then we heading to failure. We need at least 5 players

We need about 11 players.

City with a better squad than us before Pep’s arrival added 17 players. We bought only 7. Out of those 7, injuries and lack of fitness have had their say on each of them.

Jose has been so unlucky with injuries. The best CB in the club(Bailly) has been injured for a while. Smalling followed suit, then Ibra, Lukaku. Fellaini, Valencia, Carrick, etc.

It’s hard to argue about what he’s spent when many of those players haven’t played much in the season. If you compare his team that blew teams away earlier in the season & the current one that hasn’t won any game in the last 4, there’s a stark difference.

 

[BulgarianDevil91]

Imagine if we had given the right manager the 6 year contract Moyes had, we wouldnt be here now. Perhaps its time to rethink that policy. Give a 5 year contract to a manager who would bring the kids through, who plays to the strengths of good attacking football, and can improve the players they have. Who doesnt blame all and sundry except himself for when it goes wrong, and doesnt slag off or try to play mind games with other manaagers...oh well back to the real world

I'd love to know the name of that person.

As for Mourinho, I've never doubted him, but if next season we're not solid title contenders, heck, even winners, my trust in him will slowly start to disappear.

 

[Westerkerk]

I'm not saying that Jose is failing, and I certainly don't think we are the finished article, but the board, alongside the manager, have to set the key performance indicators at the start of the season and analyse them as we go. I don't think this extends to backing the manager in January to fix problems he himself has created though. I don't see any reason why the club should back him to hilt in January.

The amount Jose was backed in the last window suggests to me, and I'm gonna go out on a limb here, that our goals this season were to finish top 3, and quarter finals of the champions league. Anything lower than third, I think would be a failure given the money that has been spent. I don't think the January transfer window is ever factored in to normal plans. It's merely there for opportunities and emergencies.

It's now mid-season, if we assess those league/Cup goals, then we're not miles off that.

Performance wise we are not good enough though and of the rot continues then this team will be in serious danger of not hitting those league targets.

 

[vidic blood & sand]

His time here will be looked back upon as a raging failure and he'll be sacked/leave in the near (ish) future. Which will be quite nice because the quality of football is appalling, has been for the vast majority of this calendar year (apart from one game against Watford in March and some flukey 4-0 wins in August) and shows no signs of improving.

The best attacking football we have played under Mourinho was last October/November in games we sometimes didn't even win.

In the mean time, we've spent an enormous amount of money (some of which on a woefully pointless centre half who is worse than Tuanzebe) and Mourinho continues to to pretend the world is against him.

He's an arsehole, worse still he's failing, and I'm actively looking forward to him buggering off. The rest of you, of which many are like rabid acolytes, can continue to pretend as if all of our players are shite, or that we haven't effectively bought a new spine of the side, or that the football is actually fairly ok and we're 'improving'.

I said two months ago that we would be in a battle for top four this season. People blocked me and said I was a negative arsehole (of sorts). I was right then and I think I'm right when I say this will end in tears (and a new manager) sometime quite soon.

Totally agree.
The problem is that people here remember him at Chelsea and Inter, and can't handle the disappointment of not being able to repeat it here.
Both Mourinho and LVG came with huge expectations, and both have struggled. Tactical defensive football should never be accepted by United fans, it's a slap in the face to our tradition.
We were only a top 4 club under Atkinson, but we played some of the best most entertaining stuff.

 

[Bestietom]

We either give the youngsters a chance now or Buy. We have Bailly, Smalling, Valencia, out for some time from our defence.

We have 2 class midfielders who are tiring fast (Herrera not showing anymore, and Fellaini wanting out, Carrick out injured) and we need more.

We have no right winger or Playmaker ( Mkhi and Mata not good enough) and both centre forwards are injured.

Add or bring on the Youngsters or we miss out on top 4.

 

[Dobbs]

We need about 11 players.

City with a better squad than us before Pep’s arrival added 17 players. We bought only 7. Out of those 7, injuries and lack of fitness have had their say on each of them.

Jose has been so unlucky with injuries. The best CB in the club(Bailly) has been injured for a while. Smalling followed suit, then Ibra, Lukaku. Fellaini, Valencia, Carrick, etc.

It’s hard to argue about what he’s spent when many of those players haven’t played much in the season. If you compare his team that blew teams away earlier in the season & the current one that 2 won any game in the last 4, there’s a stark difference.

Only Bailly is missing from the team that started the season so well. Valencia from the last two if you feel that's made a huge difference. Ibra, Carrick, Smalling and Fellaini didn't start the first three games.

You've mentioned 17 players a few times. Can you list these 17 players so we can see what their contribution to the first team has been? Interesting to see how much they cost as well. A 10 player difference but our comparative spends under the two managers aren't that different. Don't we have a bigger net spend for 2017? Which is odd if they've bought 10 more than us.

 

[devilish]

We need about 11 players.

City with a better squad than us before Pep’s arrival added 17 players. We bought only 7. Out of those 7, injuries and lack of fitness have had their say on each of them.

Jose has been so unlucky with injuries. The best CB in the club(Bailly) has been injured for a while. Smalling followed suit, then Ibra, Lukaku. Fellaini, Valencia, Carrick, etc.

It’s hard to argue about what he’s spent when many of those players haven’t played much in the season. If you compare his team that blew teams away earlier in the season & the current one that hasn’t won any game in the last 4, there’s a stark difference.

We currently lack fullbacks as Valencia won't last forever and Shaw is injury prone. So a LB and a RB is in order. We need to replace Carrick and Fellaini is a goner. That means we need a DM and an attacking midfielder. We also need some seriously quality on both flanks which means we need a LW and a RW.

Rather then spend the dosh on a marquee signing we should act smart by having a close look to what we've got and work accordingly. You can't play in a 4-2-3-1 system with Pogba. He might have the talent and the physique to play in a 2 men CM but he lacks the brains. Thus this obsession with no 10s must end. This would be my team for next year

4-3-3

GK: DDG, Romero
RB: Henrichs, Valencia
LB: Ghoulam (free), Shaw
DC: Smalling, Lindelof
DC: Jones, Rojo, Tuanzebe

DM: Matic, Emre Can (free)
Box to box: Goretzka, Herrera, Mctominay
AMC: Pogba, Mata

RW: Bailey, Lingard
LW: T Hazard, Martial

STK: Lukaku, Rashford.

 

[Westerkerk]

I've said it in a similar thread, but Jose is a huge man child who is simply not mature enough to spend money wisely when he is in this situation and frame of mind.

Assess the performance against the agreed targets towards the end of the season and make a judgement then. Let him push on with what he's got, because frankly, he should be doing better with it.

To back him now in January would be like putting money in the hands of a man who thinks the world is about to end and asking him to invest it for the future.

 

[JPRouve]

Only Bailly is missing from the team that started the season so well. Ibra, Carrick, Smalling and Fellaini didn't start the first three games.

You've mentioned 17 players a few times. Can you list these 17 players so we can see what their contribution to the first team has been? Interesting to see how much they cost as well. A 10 player difference but our comparative spends under the two managers aren't that different. Don't we have a bigger net spend? Which is odd if they've bought 10 more than us.

Among the 19 you have Nolito, Rulli, Ilic, Douglas Luiz, Moreno, Bravo, Zinchenko, Mari and Kayode. That's nine players that have nothing to do with their current team.