Someone make the case that @heraklion isn't a bot
Ballon d'Or 2023 | Messi wins for 8th time
- Thread starter Samid
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Haaland last season was his 1st in the PL. What did Thierry Henry do at the biggest stage? In his own words he felt he had won nothing and therefore was fine with being a supporting cast to Messi when he transferred to Barcelona. He's certainly was a silky striker, but didnt show up for France nor tear apart the cl. Benzema was hardly godly for France either.
Haaland is definitely the definition of a poacher but he's already scored his share of aerobatic goals for city and will easily demolish records scored against big pl teams if he stays.
Wait, just so I'm sure I understand your post correctly - you're saying Henry didn't play well for France?
I worded that wrongly. Did not translate his club form to France
More than a bit harsh. Ridiculous to say a player who scores 52 goals in the season, most in the CL and PL, is not worthy of consideration for the Ballon d'Or. Haaland was a well deserving 2nd in Ballon d'Or this year. I'd be a big fan of Messi but the reason Messi is the best is because he's combined general play with goalscoring for years. Without the goals, there wouldn't be half the hype. Scoring matters, especially when you're a striker! Ridiculous to say otherwise, that's his job. Like it or not, Haaland is one of the best players of his generation.
Stop saying this, you're driving the nails deeper into @Zehner
Henry is supposedly the greatest foreign player ever to play in the PL. Has Haaland surpassed him now?
I am not even sure if he surpassed Aguero for City to be frank.
I didnt say that. I was using the logic the poster was using against him.
Henry has never scored in a cup final.
Funnily enough I agree with the bolded part, it is the rest that annoys me
Why are you so obsessed with Haaland to the extent you target posters in a Messi thread and look down on Henry, the best foreign PL player ever?
You will find more peace if you create a separate Haaland and poaching records thread. Nobody is required to share the same admiration for a poacher as you.
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I knew I was closeFunnily enough I agree with the bolded part, it is the rest that annoys me
No, you brought Ronaldo into it when you said
Don’t be coy, by “others” you meant Ronaldo, all your loyalties are to Ronaldo, that’s your primary interest in football so it’s pointless pretending that’s not what you meant. So my previous post (for which you still haven’t addressed my main points) is still relevant. I can go through every single Ballon D’or winner of the last 25 years and pull out individual incidents or games and say “yeah but if that had went the other way they might not have won it so there’s luck involved”. But you won’t do that for other players.
I've stated multiple times in this thread that Messi is a deserved winner of this year's Ballon D'Or. I'm not trying to diminish his slate, the way some are doing with Haaland (who by every objective source and authority also had an excellent year, performance and accomplishment wise). Those are the ones obsessed. Jog on and argue with them, or let me apply silly standards across the board even to a PL great like Henry
How a player played at the world cup and european championship mean so much, when they find the best player. Therefore it is difficult for a player from a smaller football nation to win this title. Haaland is number two, but I doubt he will ever win it.
I am sure “others” refers to multiple players, you are just being too sensitive here.
I genuinely think if his teammates score in penalty shootout in WC final, he would be crown as Ballon D’or winner. So I’d say the margin between them this year is this small - a matter of one penalty kick from their teammates. But of course his teammates didn’t, so in the end is more between Messi vs Haaland.
Henry and Aguero played 9 and 10 seasons in the PL.
Haaland has played a single season in the PL and he's arguaby topped both of those players' career best seasons, smashing the PL record, being topscorer in both the PL and the CL and winning the treble.
He won't win the treble every year, but he'll continue to score 50+ goals (only player the last 80 years to do so for a English team) helping City win trophies every season as long as he's there, so I'll say it won't be long before he can claim that title.
Aguero moved to City from Atletico the summer he turned 23, he still hadn't scored the first hattrick of his career and scored every 170 minutes for Atletico. He ended his career being topscorer in the PL once and never in any other senior tournament.
When Henry turned 23 he had just finished his first season in England too, 17 league goals was good (6th on the PL top scorer list that season) and by far his career best so far and he had scored a total of 65 goals for clubs and country total in his career. That's 2 less than Haaland has scored for City in the last 15 months.
Henry scored 11 hattricks in his career for club and country (917 games), Aguero had 17 hattricks (786 games).....Haaland at 23: 19 hattricks (264 games)
Their stats in the CL would also suggest Haaland is on a different level:
Aguero CL career numbers:
In total:
0 trophies and 0 top scorer titles
41 goals and 9 assists in 79 games
0,52 goals per game
0,63 goals+assists per game.
In KO stages:
9 goals and 4 assists in 23 games
0,39 goals per game
0,57 goals+assists per game.
0 goals and 0 assists in 4 semifinals and finals
Henry CL career numbers:
In total:
1 trophies and 0 top scorer titles
50 goals and 22 assists in 112 games
0,45 goals per game
0,64 goals+assists per game.
In KO stages:
9 goals and 9 assists in 36 games
0,25 goals per game
0,50 goals+assists per game.
1 goals (in a semifinal Monaco got knocked out) and 1 assist (in a final Barcelona lost) in 9 semifinals and finals
Haaland CL career numbers (at 23):
In total:
1 trophy and 2 topscorer titles
39 goals and 5 assists in 34 games
1,15 goals per game
1,29 goals+assists per game.
In KO stages:
13 goals and 3 assists in 13 games
1,00 goals per game
1,23 goals+assists per game.
0 goals and 0 assists in 3 semifinals and finals (I guess he has a whole career to improve these numbers)
Do you really think Henry and Aguero will be considered greater than Haaland for long if he hasn't already surpassed them?
I think these need some context. Agüero didn’t join City when they were the force they are now under Guardiola. He also had persistent injuries which were the main reason for him never finishing top scorer despite have a better goal per game average than everyone else.
As for Henry, he was also a creator and scored all types of goals. I struggle to imagine Arsenal having the same success without him. But we know City will still win titles without Haaland and can still make CL finals without Haaland. Let’s be honest wasn’t really much of a factor in the CL semi’s or final last season.
Lastly, the addition of VAR has lead to a real increase in the number of penalties awarded which will benefit Haaland, it didn’t really benefit the other two. Haaland will post better goalscoring numbers than those two, but if I really needed someone to pull a goal out of nowhere to win me a game, Henry and Agüero are far more likely to do it and far less reliant on their team mates to create that opportunity for them.
Greatest player ever
Aguero is also not a one-dimensional poacher like Haaland, he is so much more than goals. Many teams will prefer Benzema, Aguero, Kane type of complete packages vs Haaland type of poachers. That's how Benzema has become indispensable to Real for 14 years regardless of how many he scored. Real could easily choose to replace him if they were obsessed with tap-in stats and making decisions on number of goals only.
Kevin de Bruyne on Sergio Aguero last May 2023:
"Honestly, he is probably the best all-round striker I've played with. Just everything; He had speed, power, could go deep, could come short, could shoot with left & right foot, headers... He was unbelievable. So, so good."
"Sergio Aguero was one of the most complete strikers football has ever seen "– no wonder Kevin De Bruyne raves about him
"He wasn’t just about goalscoring – something he was obviously incredible at. He had it all, as De Bruyne says. He could link play brilliantly, and also had the technical qualities to make him useful between the lines. He’d run the channels, too."
www.manchestercity.news/kevin-de-bruyne-says-sergio-aguero-is-the-best-all-round-striker-hes-played-with/
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Haaland is a level above Aguero. Aguero was a fine striker but not in contention for being an all-time great whereas Haaland is. Aguero's level was competing more like the Cavanis, Higuains, Van Persies whereas Haaland's is more like Eusebio, Muller, Puskas and all-time great strikers. Ultimately, Aguero did not do enough in the Champions League or the World Cup. Only two goals in three World Cups, while in the Champions League Haaland has almost passed out his goal record there. If he gets a hat-trick in his next CL, he will have passed Aguero out in an incredible 44 fewer games.
Every single team in world football would sign Haaland if he was available. His manager is literally known as one of the most build-up play and anti-striker manager going and he's built the team around Haaland. All you guys know better than Pep Guardiola apparently. That was a great poacher goal he scored last night by the way.
It is true that Haaland has some limitations. But he seems to make up for them by scoring a demented amount of goals.
I think even this can be slightly overstated. He’s obviously no Kane in terms of his overall game but he’s not this Lukaku mark 2 that some love to paint him as.
His involvement is often so limited as he doesn’t need to be and just focuses on running in behind and being a box striker. However, he’s still shown a solid overall game at times.
When they trounced Arsenal 4-1 comes to mind. Great hold-up play, bullying centre backs, good first touches and combination play with De Bruyne. He’s not the most refined player but not a complete donkey either.
This is patently false.
If he made the unwise decision to build the team around Haaland the ghost, there's no winning CL, FA Cup, Super Cup, Community Shield with him ghosting as usual. Replace him with another quality striker, results remain the same. Even without a proper striker, they dominated PL, played CL final etc. Some people here acting like City was a nobody before his arrival, and he single-handedly changed City's fate by bailing his teammates out. Developing the optimum plan to feed your striker as much as possible does not mean building a team around that striker, every single team does that. With Haaland, it is impossible to build the team around him as he is too limited to be a part of build-up play. City is better off him not getting involved in build-up play anyway as otherwise he would probably mess up the whole thing.
You build the team around players like Messi, Maradona, Zidane, Ronaldinho etc. giving them freedom so that they can show their magic.
Since you mentioned, congrats to Haaland for scoring his 3rd goal outside the box for City, silencing his critics showing he's not a mere poacher with that crazy outside the box goal frequency.
Exactly, he doesn't get heavily involved but he does not impede play at all. He is more than competent in general play and causes defenders problems with his pace and power. He's far from clumsy, more minimalistic and focused on important striker play, which is unbelievably good at.
a really interesting interview between Messi and Zidane released by Adidas today where they talk about WCs, No.10 position, Maradona etc.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ8wOnnZiEg
www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ8wOnnZiEg
Not even close imo, he's got a lot to do to be proven to those heights.
He's not really close, he's not had anywhere near the affect they had on their teams. He joined the team that won the PL easily, and we're a step away from winning the CL.
If Henry or Aguero played last season City would have been better.
It's hard for any player to have a massive effect on Manchester City when they're already winning most PL titles.
Ederson the best keeper but not in the team of the year?
That's what Kane, Mbappe, Modric, Van Dijk, Salah, Lewandowski, Valverde and many others think, they will probably laugh back at your commentImagine thinking Messi was 'the best' footballer in 2023
That's an absolute joke.
You know them all personally?That's what Kane, Mbappe, Modric, Van Dijk, Salah, Lewandowski, Valverde and many others think, they will probably laugh back at your comment
The captain of Montserrat (some Cambridge United player) voting for Declan Rice
The period they voted about was from December 19th to August 20th 2023...
Yes, he really was great in that final of 16th from PSG against Bayern... Must have been the 9 goals and 6 assists for PSG in the second half of the season.
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they all voted for Messi, are you aware this info is public?
twitter.com/TheEuropeanLad/status/1747000854656307323
go tell them they're a joke.. below is the list..
• Kylian Mbappé
• Mohamed Salah
• Harry Kane
• Luka Modric
• Federico Valverde
• Robert Lewandowski
• Virgil Van Dijk
• Romelu Lukaku
• Andy Robertson
• Jan Oblak
• Gianluigi Donnarumma
• Falcao
• Granit Xhaka
Everyone knows that footballers are very stupid.
Kane, Mbappé and others all voted Messi. So just shows the respect Messi has in the game, even when he clearly wasn't the best.
Messi himself voted for Haaland, his main rival, not like with Ronaldo and Messi when they'd intentionally leave each other out of the top 3.
Messi himself voted for Haaland, his main rival, not like with Ronaldo and Messi when they'd intentionally leave each other out of the top 3.