Barcelona: Charged with corruption .... again!

[CampNou]

This thread is VERY SAD... I don't even have words to explain what I feel when I see this. This is, anyway, a fair portrait of the state of the country itself... it is just pathetic. Franco died 50 years ago, we are close to a century from the Civil War...

Laporta should have never talked about the "regime" because it has nothing to do with Negreira, it is pathetic. It is just not relevant. The Real Madrid video is stupid and a shame. Real Madrid TV by the way has been nauseating for the last few months.


I think this debate is very unfair for Barcelona and Real Madrid and this doesn't help at all, anyone, for any reason. This just inflates even more the hate and light on the fanatics.

I will give you my vision (which, by the way, it is more or less the "consensus" among historians)...

In summary, neither Barca or Real were "the team of the regime", the regime used them, in different ways, with different objectives.

I will start with Real...

Madrid was a Republican city (and it fought like that), Santiago Bernabeu was not. Bernabeu fled Madrid, joined the Franco army, fought in Catalonia and got condecorated by the Franco army. He wasn't himself a "francoist", but he was a right wing man who chose his side in the war. He became president of Real as an "ok" from the club itself and the power (specially military). Bernabeu had a better relationship with the military than politicians (even if they were former military too). He was a strong man and he didn't like to be told, so he usually had his in and outs with authority power, but he still was a right wing conservative, so it wasn't a real issue for Franco. He could do what he pleased while he kept minimum respect. Real Madrid was destroyed after the war because Madrid itself was destroyed. That is the main reason Madrid didn't have a lot of success right after the war. You could see a lot of military in the stadium but not a lot of money at that point. He started to rebuild.

By 50s, Bernabeu was doing a good job and the regime started to see it like a good thing, a good propaganda machine. When Madrid started winning it was crystal clear. They were the perfect ambassassor of the regime. They were from Madrid (more on that later), they were 100% spanish, no doubt, the president, even if he wasn't super proFranco, shared the same ideology and they even wore pure white (not in terms of race, but more like christian priests). Meanwhile, Madrid never had an issue being used, as it was good for them too. One of the ways the government helped them, was using the diplomats to create reports of rival teams in Europe so Madrid knew better about their players, style of play, etc. Government main help was PR. Madrid became the most followed team of Spain by their own merits and the help of the government. Can you blame Bernabeu on that? I don't think so. Does it mean they were "the team of the regime"? I don't think so. Does it mean that they didn't profit from the propaganda the government created around them? I don't think so.

The Real Madrid video put a phrase from Bernabeu (when Franco was already dead), but Saporta (who gave name to the basketball stadium, very close friend to Bernabeu and who took the power for transition after his death told:
Real Madrid is and has been political. It has always been so powerful for being at the service of the backbone of the State. When it was founded in 1902 it respected Alfonso XIII, in 1931 the Republic, in 1939 the Generalissimo, and now it respects His Majesty Juan Carlos. Because it is a disciplined Club and it is loyal to the institution that leads the nation. institution that leads the nation.


To me, Real Madrid is not "the team of the regime" in the sense of the "favourite" (it was, for propaganda reasons), but Madrid has controlled for the most part of the history all the football bodies. From the referees themselves (80-90% of time until the 90s) and the football justice system (they had a majority of members until 2018 in the Competition Committee who decide sanctions and they are the only team with members in that deciding committee right now).

Barca...
The interest in Barca was totally different. Sunyol was killed by the Franco army while he was Barca president. He had announced he was going to leave because of political reasons, as he was joining ERC (Republican Leftist of Catalonia). He wasn't killed for being Barca president, he just happened to be.

From now on, Franco was very interested in having Barcelona under control, because Catalonia represented (obvious) different issues to the Regime and the team already was a very followed institution in Catalonia (not like Espanyol, for example). Franco tried to basically kidnap FC Barcelona for the most time of his rule. Many of the presidents weren't even members of Barcelona, they were men of the regime.
"Then... Barcelona was the team of the regime!"... well... no... the intention was not making Barca win, just deprive the catalanist views and show kind of "how spaniard Barca are, how unite we are with Franco". Barca had some success right after the war because they were already a good team and the war wasn't that devastating for them, in comparison. However, the team was worse and worse because the board was more or less intervined the whole time, and it wasn't easy to focus just in the sport. In the meantime, the presidents who were closer to the regime had more actions like the mentioned in the video or help in specific moments.

So... was Barca the team of the regime? no... it was just another victim that the regime wanted to use for its own benefit.

Barca and Real were both instruments of Franco for his benefit. Period.

 

[Lemoor]

"If you are not prepared before the media, they will make you love the oppressor and hate the oppressed"

Malcolm X

No, we're at "they did it". There is no official corruption charge, just an investigation that leads into nothing so far, because there is nothing according to the club except a narrative from people who dislike barca and blow up an ethically wrong payment out of proportion.

I love the absolute shamelessness.

 

[Mr.Fantastic]

This thread is VERY SAD... I don't even have words to explain what I feel when I see this. This is, anyway, a fair portrait of the state of the country itself... it is just pathetic. Franco died 50 years ago, we are close to a century from the Civil War...

Laporta should have never talked about the "regime" because it has nothing to do with Negreira, it is pathetic. It is just not relevant. The Real Madrid video is stupid and a shame. Real Madrid TV by the way has been nauseating for the last few months.


I think this debate is very unfair for Barcelona and Real Madrid and this doesn't help at all, anyone, for any reason. This just inflates even more the hate and light on the fanatics.

I will give you my vision (which, by the way, it is more or less the "consensus" among historians)...

In summary, neither Barca or Real were "the team of the regime", the regime used them, in different ways, with different objectives.

I will start with Real...

Madrid was a Republican city (and it fought like that), Santiago Bernabeu was not. Bernabeu fled Madrid, joined the Franco army, fought in Catalonia and got condecorated by the Franco army. He wasn't himself a "francoist", but he was a right wing man who chose his side in the war. He became president of Real as an "ok" from the club itself and the power (specially military). Bernabeu had a better relationship with the military than politicians (even if they were former military too). He was a strong man and he didn't like to be told, so he usually had his in and outs with authority power, but he still was a right wing conservative, so it wasn't a real issue for Franco. He could do what he pleased while he kept minimum respect. Real Madrid was destroyed after the war because Madrid itself was destroyed. That is the main reason Madrid didn't have a lot of success right after the war. You could see a lot of military in the stadium but not a lot of money at that point. He started to rebuild.

By 50s, Bernabeu was doing a good job and the regime started to see it like a good thing, a good propaganda machine. When Madrid started winning it was crystal clear. They were the perfect ambassassor of the regime. They were from Madrid (more on that later), they were 100% spanish, no doubt, the president, even if he wasn't super proFranco, shared the same ideology and they even wore pure white (not in terms of race, but more like christian priests). Meanwhile, Madrid never had an issue being used, as it was good for them too. One of the ways the government helped them, was using the diplomats to create reports of rival teams in Europe so Madrid knew better about their players, style of play, etc. Government main help was PR. Madrid became the most followed team of Spain by their own merits and the help of the government. Can you blame Bernabeu on that? I don't think so. Does it mean they were "the team of the regime"? I don't think so. Does it mean that they didn't profit from the propaganda the government created around them? I don't think so.

The Real Madrid video put a phrase from Bernabeu (when Franco was already dead), but Saporta (who gave name to the basketball stadium, very close friend to Bernabeu and who took the power for transition after his death told:
Real Madrid is and has been political. It has always been so powerful for being at the service of the backbone of the State. When it was founded in 1902 it respected Alfonso XIII, in 1931 the Republic, in 1939 the Generalissimo, and now it respects His Majesty Juan Carlos. Because it is a disciplined Club and it is loyal to the institution that leads the nation. institution that leads the nation.


To me, Real Madrid is not "the team of the regime" in the sense of the "favourite" (it was, for propaganda reasons), but Madrid has controlled for the most part of the history all the football bodies. From the referees themselves (80-90% of time until the 90s) and the football justice system (they had a majority of members until 2018 in the Competition Committee who decide sanctions and they are the only team with members in that deciding committee right now).

Barca...
The interest in Barca was totally different. Sunyol was killed by the Franco army while he was Barca president. He had announced he was going to leave because of political reasons, as he was joining ERC (Republican Leftist of Catalonia). He wasn't killed for being Barca president, he just happened to be.

From now on, Franco was very interested in having Barcelona under control, because Catalonia represented (obvious) different issues to the Regime and the team already was a very followed institution in Catalonia (not like Espanyol, for example). Franco tried to basically kidnap FC Barcelona for the most time of his rule. Many of the presidents weren't even members of Barcelona, they were men of the regime.
"Then... Barcelona was the team of the regime!"... well... no... the intention was not making Barca win, just deprive the catalanist views and show kind of "how spaniard Barca are, how unite we are with Franco". Barca had some success right after the war because they were already a good team and the war wasn't that devastating for them, in comparison. However, the team was worse and worse because the board was more or less intervined the whole time, and it wasn't easy to focus just in the sport. In the meantime, the presidents who were closer to the regime had more actions like the mentioned in the video or help in specific moments.

So... was Barca the team of the regime? no... it was just another victim that the regime wanted to use for its own benefit.

Barca and Real were both instruments of Franco for his benefit. Period.

Basically Franco was doing reports for Bernabeu? To ensure fair refereeing i presume?

 

[Krakenzero]

Deny, Delay, Deflect: the three Ds that scream "We lawyered up".

I'd say that the political angle ultimately helps Barcelona. It distracts from the simple facts that base the judiciary case against them. Which as I understand are A) Paying the VP of referees for 18 years for reports he said were never made and which weren't known to their coaches and/or football directors at the time; and B) stopping the payments inmediately after the VP left his job.

 

[Anustart89]

The Real Madrid intern, or whoever did this disgusting video achieved their goal. Even the catalan government published a statement on it:

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

If Perez or Madrid don't apologize for it, I'm pretty sure the relationship between both clubs will be on a new low for a very long time. It wouldn't even surprise me, if Laporta starts to return back to Uefa again because of this. They definetly crossed the line here.

It was kiiiiiiind of your guy who brought Franco into the discussion in the first place...

 

[Anustart89]

Barca think Real are corrupt. Real think Barca are corrupt.

When will they both realize...?

Insert spiderman image

 

[Niemans]

Insert spiderman image

I insert a post.

Article by Rubén Uria, one of the best journalists in Spain.

Aquí.

For three years, a group of journalists -it is a generous euphemism- more and more numerous, has launched a crusade that places Real Madrid as a victim of the referees. His proposal consists of petty debates where the audience rules and where it is cheap to throw the stone while hiding the hand. Where the sewer sells more than rigor, Barça is accused of having the favor of the referees. The curious thing is that, despite hours and hours of unbearable gatherings, the crusaders of the conspiracy still have not provided a single proof that the referees row in favor of Barça. To this day, no one has been able to prove that Victoriano Sánchez Arminio, a bad manager, was a player, member, supporter or director of the Barcelona Football Club.

It must be frustrating for the media puppets who write and speak at the dictation of their master( Florentino Perez, in case some clueless person does not know who he is referring to) , who have not yet been able to certify that the Spaniard has or has had links with Barça, an alleged arbitration protégé. On the other hand, the newspaper archive of the newspapers of the time, added to the archive of the magnificent historian Bernardo Salazar, reflects a very different reality: a necessary and hygienic reality that unequivocally concludes the record of the National College of Referees. Come and read:

Alfonso Albéniz Jordana, first president of the National College of Arbitrators. He was a Real Madrid player (1911-12), a member from 1912 and also a director of the Chamartín club for eight years, from 1913 to 1921.


Carlos Dieste Vega, second president of the National College of Arbitrators. Real Madrid player in the 1914-15 campaign and later merengue manager from 1914 to 1921.

Luis Colina Álvarez, third president of the National College of Referees, after its refoundation due to a serious crisis. (1924-26). Don Luis was a director of Real Madrid 1919-20 and at the time, a member and supporter of the Madrid club.

Antonio de Cárcer, fourth president of the CNA (1926-28). Partner of Real Madrid and also a manager. His brother Juan was the first coach of Real Madrid and his brother Fernando, vice president of the Santiago Bernabéu in the forties.

Luis Iglesias Gracia, fifth president of the CNA (July 1928). He barely lasted two months in office, being an interim president who barely made decisions.

Julián Ruete Muniesa, sixth president of the CNA (September 1928-November 1928). Only two months in office. He was a player for Real Madrid (1904-10) and Atlético (1910-11), secretary of the merengue board and also became President of Atlético de Madrid (1912-23).

Alfonso Albéniz Jordana, seventh president of the CNA (1928-29). He returned to the position to be the first president of the first edition of the professional League. He was a player (1911-12), a partner (since 1912) and also a director of Real Madrid (1913-21).

Antonio de Cárcer y Disdier, eighth president of the CNA (1930-36). Once again, he was once again the highest referee, as in 1926. He was a partner and manager of Real Madrid, as well as the brother of the Madrid club's first coach.

Eulogio Aranguren Labairu, ninth president (1939-46). After the Civil War, the Central Committee of Referees was created, with Don Eulogio being its president. He was a Real Madrid player, a member since 1911 and also vice-president of the Spanish Football Federation.

Manuel Álvarez Corriols, tenth president (1946). Former referee of the Castilian Federation. Barely eleven months in office. No known "colors".

Emilio Suárez Marcelo, eleventh president (1947). He only spent a year in office, but before reaching the armchair he was a member of Real Madrid since 1922 and also a prominent member of the Organizing Committee for the Golden Wedding Anniversary and the White Club's Economic Commission.

Ramón Echarren Sanzmagaray, twelfth president (1947-48). From the College of Referees of Navarra. It was said that he was a partner and supporter of Osasuna. He held office for a single campaign.

Pedro Escartín Morán, thirteenth president (1948-51). Former referee of the Colegio Castellano. His term lasted up to three years. He was a player for the Royal Gymnastics Society, although he always confessed privately that he was a fan of Real Madrid. He received an offer from Barça to be technical secretary, but due to his merengue status, he declined it. Later he was a writer, journalist and chronicler, among others for the newspaper "Marca".

Luis Saura del Pan, fourteenth president (1951-52). He came to the referee's chair after having played for Real Madrid for nine years and having been registered as a Real Madrid member for almost 50 years, since 1905. Don Luis, a lifetime linked to Real Madrid, was also President of the Spanish Football Federation.

Eulogio Aranguren Labairu, fifteenth president (1952-53). He commanded the arbitration estate for 11 months. He came to the position after being a Real Madrid player for ten years (1911-21), apart from being a partner since 1911.

Emilio Álvarez Pérez, sixteenth president (1953-56). There is hardly any documentation referring to this president of the CNA. Nivario de la Cruz Hernández, seventeenth president (September 1956-November 1961). A former referee for the Castilian Federation, he never hid his friendship with members of the Real Madrid board of directors, such as Muñoz Lusarreta.

Manuel Asensi Martín, eighteenth president (1961-67). Former referee of the Castilian Federation, attached to the Valencian College, he came to whistle in Fairs Cup matches and international competitions, such as the 1954 World Cup.

José Plaza, nineteenth president (1967 to 1970). He resigned out of solidarity with Guruceta, that referee challenged by Barcelona after having whistled a penalty in favor of Madrid that was two meters outside the area. Plaza was the great "patriarch" of arbitration. In addition, this phrase is imputed to him: "While I am president, Barça will not be league champions." Plaza denied these words over and over again. He was a former referee for the Castilian Federation, but played for the Real Madrid subsidiary, Plus
Ultra.

José Fernández de la Torre, twentieth president (1970). He came to office after belonging to the Andalusian College and after the resignations of Plaza, De la Fuente and Morales were accepted. He was also president of the FAF Coaches School since 1949. From 1960 he was adviser to the National Committee of Referees.

Juan Francisco Pardo Hidalgo, twenty-first president (1971-72). Former referee of the Castilian Federation. He advocated for professionalism, for putting a "cap" on the age of the referees and for stopping the clubs in their "recusals" to various referees.

José Plaza, twenty-second president (1972-1990). After resigning due to the "Guruceta case", he returned to office. Plaza was a former referee for the Castilian Federation and previously played for the Real Madrid subsidiary, Plus Ultra.

Fernando de Andrés Merino, twenty-third president (1990). He was president of the Management Board of the arbitrators. He became famous when he claimed to be unaware of the fact that Barcelona did not win when he was refereed by Ramos Marcos, a referee whose information file was opened for commenting on a Barça-Real Madrid match for Telemadrid. Linked to the Territorial Committee of Referees of Castilla y León.

Pedro Sánchez Sanz, twenty-fourth president (1990-93). Elected by the Central Board, although the Supreme Court annulled his election by a judicial order of 1992. He was the beneficiary of the "mysterious" resignation of the Catalan collegiate Albert Giménez, who withdrew his candidacy for the presidency. Sánchez Sanz acceded to the position "by hand", having whistled only in the Regional Preference, to later take the "big leap" and be an informant for the CNTA and become a member of the Madrid College of Referees in 1984, as reported by the ABC newspaper in 1991.

(*) The position was also held by Arturo López Espinosa-the twenty-fifth president-, but on an interim basis. Don Arturo was a member of Real Madrid.

For a century, 26 presidencies decided who and how they should arbitrate in Spain, applying the system of "fingercracy". An overwhelming majority of those presidents came to those positions after being players, partners or managers of Real Madrid. Masks out.

 

[Anustart89]

I insert a post.

Jesus fecking Christ.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

Hasn't Laporta succeeded in taking attention off payments to referees and shifted it to something else related to Franco. Barca fans are not even defending the payments now, just working the Franco angle. Laporta has played this pretty well I feel.

 

[Theo88]

I insert a post.

I dont understand this.

Was Real Madrid caught paying off referees? Are you saying you can buy off referees because 30 years ago presidencies used to be had by Castillans ? What's the argument here ? Is it basically it's your turn to cheat ?

 

[rimaldo]

if only black people knew how tough fc barcelona have had it all their lives. every black person should feel embarrassed this evening.

 

[PerezMasterclass]

Barca and Laporta are truly a shameless duo that go together perfectly. They paid the refs boss and started throwing a hissy fit. It’s screams guilty and they’re stained no matter the outcome.
The Real Madrid video is the culmination of years of fascist smearing by Barca towards Real Madrid, revenge is however always best served cold, and the world got to see Barca players Roman saluting and their whole propaganda parade came crashing down.

 

[Acheron]

Anyway, Laporta provided a horrible explanation during his PC today but somehow this Franco debate will attract all the attention in the following days instead of the Negreira scandal.

Everyone knew from the beginning he wasn't going to say anything relevant that absolves Barcelona but more to try on accusing everyone else and divert the attention. Then you have the their very cynic fans that actually believe his lies and are gullible enough to go along with his narrative of all this being a campaign in Spain against them.

 

[Acheron]

This thread is VERY SAD... I don't even have words to explain what I feel when I see this. This is, anyway, a fair portrait of the state of the country itself... it is just pathetic. Franco died 50 years ago, we are close to a century from the Civil War...

Laporta should have never talked about the "regime" because it has nothing to do with Negreira, it is pathetic. It is just not relevant. The Real Madrid video is stupid and a shame. Real Madrid TV by the way has been nauseating for the last few months.


I think this debate is very unfair for Barcelona and Real Madrid and this doesn't help at all, anyone, for any reason. This just inflates even more the hate and light on the fanatics.

I will give you my vision (which, by the way, it is more or less the "consensus" among historians)...

In summary, neither Barca or Real were "the team of the regime", the regime used them, in different ways, with different objectives.

I will start with Real...

Madrid was a Republican city (and it fought like that), Santiago Bernabeu was not. Bernabeu fled Madrid, joined the Franco army, fought in Catalonia and got condecorated by the Franco army. He wasn't himself a "francoist", but he was a right wing man who chose his side in the war. He became president of Real as an "ok" from the club itself and the power (specially military). Bernabeu had a better relationship with the military than politicians (even if they were former military too). He was a strong man and he didn't like to be told, so he usually had his in and outs with authority power, but he still was a right wing conservative, so it wasn't a real issue for Franco. He could do what he pleased while he kept minimum respect. Real Madrid was destroyed after the war because Madrid itself was destroyed. That is the main reason Madrid didn't have a lot of success right after the war. You could see a lot of military in the stadium but not a lot of money at that point. He started to rebuild.

By 50s, Bernabeu was doing a good job and the regime started to see it like a good thing, a good propaganda machine. When Madrid started winning it was crystal clear. They were the perfect ambassassor of the regime. They were from Madrid (more on that later), they were 100% spanish, no doubt, the president, even if he wasn't super proFranco, shared the same ideology and they even wore pure white (not in terms of race, but more like christian priests). Meanwhile, Madrid never had an issue being used, as it was good for them too. One of the ways the government helped them, was using the diplomats to create reports of rival teams in Europe so Madrid knew better about their players, style of play, etc. Government main help was PR. Madrid became the most followed team of Spain by their own merits and the help of the government. Can you blame Bernabeu on that? I don't think so. Does it mean they were "the team of the regime"? I don't think so. Does it mean that they didn't profit from the propaganda the government created around them? I don't think so.

The Real Madrid video put a phrase from Bernabeu (when Franco was already dead), but Saporta (who gave name to the basketball stadium, very close friend to Bernabeu and who took the power for transition after his death told:
Real Madrid is and has been political. It has always been so powerful for being at the service of the backbone of the State. When it was founded in 1902 it respected Alfonso XIII, in 1931 the Republic, in 1939 the Generalissimo, and now it respects His Majesty Juan Carlos. Because it is a disciplined Club and it is loyal to the institution that leads the nation. institution that leads the nation.


To me, Real Madrid is not "the team of the regime" in the sense of the "favourite" (it was, for propaganda reasons), but Madrid has controlled for the most part of the history all the football bodies. From the referees themselves (80-90% of time until the 90s) and the football justice system (they had a majority of members until 2018 in the Competition Committee who decide sanctions and they are the only team with members in that deciding committee right now).

Barca...
The interest in Barca was totally different. Sunyol was killed by the Franco army while he was Barca president. He had announced he was going to leave because of political reasons, as he was joining ERC (Republican Leftist of Catalonia). He wasn't killed for being Barca president, he just happened to be.

From now on, Franco was very interested in having Barcelona under control, because Catalonia represented (obvious) different issues to the Regime and the team already was a very followed institution in Catalonia (not like Espanyol, for example). Franco tried to basically kidnap FC Barcelona for the most time of his rule. Many of the presidents weren't even members of Barcelona, they were men of the regime.
"Then... Barcelona was the team of the regime!"... well... no... the intention was not making Barca win, just deprive the catalanist views and show kind of "how spaniard Barca are, how unite we are with Franco". Barca had some success right after the war because they were already a good team and the war wasn't that devastating for them, in comparison. However, the team was worse and worse because the board was more or less intervined the whole time, and it wasn't easy to focus just in the sport. In the meantime, the presidents who were closer to the regime had more actions like the mentioned in the video or help in specific moments.

So... was Barca the team of the regime? no... it was just another victim that the regime wanted to use for its own benefit.

Barca and Real were both instruments of Franco for his benefit. Period.

Thanks for at least posting something sensible, unlike Niemans, I was having a stroke trying to read all those posts from a few pages. I agree with you in that this shouldn't be discussed as it's just taking attention away from the actual issue.

 

[jm99]

I really hope niemans is using chatGPT or something for these endless posts, it would be a bit worrying if he's writing them all out himself

 

[Fridge chutney]

it’s gone past funny and into the genuinely worrying phase. just like that time my grandad wouldn’t take off that women’s hat.

I disagree. It is still very very funny

 

[CampNou]

Thanks for at least posting something sensible, unlike Niemans, I was having a stroke trying to read all those posts from a few pages. I agree with you in that this shouldn't be discussed as it's just taking attention away from the actual issue.

There are many "non sensical" posts outside whatever Niemans said.

It is simply easy to insult Barca nowadays. Some "ironical" or "comical" comment to a serious message and you "automatically win" for 95% of the posters.

I would have never said anything like that in Laporta's position (it looks bad and just a diversion tactic) but the prosecutor of Negreria case kind of expose some of those issues he mentioned.

The prosecutor cites some possible jobs for Negreira. One is literally this:
-Solicitar que el Comité de Competición (responsable de las sanciones a los jugadores) no estuviera compuesto íntegramente por jueces madrileños.
To me, the surprising thing is that something like that could happen. By the way, they are/were not actually from Madrid, just Real Madrid members. 2/3 juries were "Real Madrid socios" in 2018. One of them "resigned" months after he published extremely childish tweets in the 1-O. While I agree in the idea (it was illegal and a shame), the tweets were just pathetic for a 12 years old, imagine a grown man who decides sanctions of LaLiga. Barca had tried to change this for years but it was impossible. Could this be considered a way of "assuring neutrality"? Even if you trust the word of a liar, do you think fixing a situation like this could be related to the "neutrality" negreira was talking about? aside from personal corruption (i think it is fair to say it is proved because there is no way that the materials costed that money), do you think that it is even possible that he was paid for lobbying in some questions like the one i mentioned? i don't know if that is the case or not, but do you think it is just a possibility? prosecutors think that is a possibility, as they clearly state.
By the way, I don't say that the judges are not professional and that they don't try to make their job as well as possible, but I don't think you find adequate that the judges of Comite of Competicion are Barca socios, dont you? This is a recent example that is direct connection with Negreira, but situations like this have been the norm through history.

He was also talking for over 2 hours, accepting over 30 questions from very different media. I don't know the moment and the context of the most polemic comments. So maybe it wasn't really a SO big deal (i would like to think it but i'm not watching 2 hours of Laporta talking).

I don't care if Madrid benefitted or not with Franco, because even if true, I honestly don't see anything immoral in what they did from everything i read from many and different sources.

Basically Franco was doing reports for Bernabeu? To ensure fair refereeing i presume?

You can try to make all the childish jokes you want but it is what it is.

I bet you didn't even know that Bernabeu would have never been the president of Real Madrid if he didn't join Franco's army.

https://ludopedio.org.br/wp-content/uploads/024133_es1401.pdf
The author is a respected historian who teaches at UCM

Interesting read about your team. Don't worry, I chose a source that literally says "Una acusación que resulta injusta y rotundamente falsa" (about being the team of the regime).

Some parts...

The arrival of Santiago Bernabéu to the presidency of Real Madrid in September 1943 was a compromise between the Real Madrid board, now "armored" with military personnel (Bernabéu named Lieutenant General Eduardo Sáenz de Buruaga, military governor of Madrid and a personal friend of Franco) and a Falange obsessed with taking totalitarian control of soccer.
In the mid-1940s, Real Madrid was a team with clear links to the spheres of power. ties in the spheres of power (especially the military), but without great economic means, and relegated in the sporting arena to an influential political sector that strongly supported Atlético de Madrid.

...

Real Madrid's role as Spain's extraordinary ambassador proved extremely useful at this juncture of profound changes in foreign policy. In countries where there were important Spanish colonies, the arrival of the white club became an exceptional event, which was taken advantage of by consuls and ambassadors to reinforce their predicament among emigrants or to iron out differences with exile associations. It is true that Real Madrid voluntarily and consciously allowed its use in this sense, without provoking any conflictive situation and without disowning the Spanish political regime or its leaders. The white directors always informed the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of their international commitments, requesting its approval before accepting them, and sent valuable complementary information on the communist countries where they acted as an alternative interlocutor to the restricted official circuits. For their part, the diplomats went so far as to send sports reports on the teams against which the White team was to play, as the consul in Frankfurt did shortly before the final of the Fifth European Cup; an initiative that was repeated on numerous occasions by other of his colleagues. It is not surprising, then, that Alfredo Sánchez Bella, ambassador to Italy from 1962 to 1969 and Minister of Information and Tourism from the latter date until 1973, described Real Madrid as "one of the best instruments, perhaps the best and greatest that we have had in recent times, to affirm our popularity beyond our borders "18, or that Foreign Minister Fernando María Castiella said a few years later that Real Madrid was "a style of sportsmanship, and knows how to carry the name of Spain around the world with the utmost decorum. Its players behave as true ambassadors, contributing with their performances to the prestige of our country"

...

Since the mid fifties, Real Madrid was perfectly integrated into the network of influences of a regime that saw it as the great asset for promotion abroad, at the decisive moment of the end of the autarkic economic regime and at the beginning of a stabilization process that would lead to the years of developmentalism (1957-75). This approach to political power included the highest levels of the State.
Until the beginning of the European successes, Real Madrid's documentation only records one audience with Franco, in 1952, to present him with the Golden Book commemorating the club's fiftieth anniversary. It was from 1954 onwards when there was greater communication with the communication with the protocol and family environment of the Generalissimo. From then on, the presence of Franco and his wife in the box at the Bernabéu stadium became a regular occurrence. on the occasion of the annual demonstrations of the official trade unions on May Day; other times, on the occasion of important on May 1st; others, on the occasion of important sporting events of the national team or the club itself.


And this my last mention to anything related to Franco. It is a very interesting topic to understand how dictatorships make use of sportwashing but it should't be treated on this thread.

 

[Bebestation]

Such a shit club. Don’t rate what they do.

 

[Ragnar123]

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Both insult each other via Social Media and demand each other to resign. But they are still polite enough to shake hands and smile.
Somehow I find it funny

 

[Mr.Fantastic]

You can try to make all the childish jokes you want but it is what it is.

I bet you didn't even know that Bernabeu would have never been the president of Real Madrid if he didn't join Franco's army.

Your club is filled with corruption and club culture reaching cesspool level under the leadership of General von Klinkerhoffen, and you fully endorse him by supporting his timeless "Franco" red herring schtick.

As such, what kind of response do you expect exactly?

 

[GinobiliTheGOAT]

Javier Tebas: “We gave Laporta 20 minutes to explain the Negreira case at the meeting - he defended the club's position regarding not influencing the referees and most club representatives respected it, but an investigation is still ongoing” #FCB

Javier Tebas: “Laporta didn’t clarify much. Clubs understood his point, but weren’t convinced” #FCB

 

[FreckBarca]

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Tebas:

"I personally told Laporta that his explanations are insufficient. Paying the ref VP for so many years is inexplicable. We have requested for Negreira's son to be also charged in the legal process as there are enough clues that he also participated: he is the one who made the ref reports, he had dinner with the refs the night before (the games)"

 

[RoyH1]

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Tebas:

"I personally told Laporta that his explanations are insufficient. Paying the ref VP for so many years is inexplicable. We have requested for Negreira's son to be also charged in the legal process as there are enough clues that he also participated: he is the one who made the ref reports, he had dinner with the refs the night before (the games)"

At the end this is all that matters. Who cares about what a tinpot dictator did half a century ago.

 

[JPRouve]

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Tebas:

"I personally told Laporta that his explanations are insufficient. Paying the ref VP for so many years is inexplicable. We have requested for Negreira's son to be also charged in the legal process as there are enough clues that he also participated: he is the one who made the ref reports, he had dinner with the refs the night before (the games)"

"Before the games".

So the point wasn't to give reports of games that had already been played... Interesting.

 

[DavelinaJolie]

No, we're at "they did it". There is no official corruption charge, just an investigation that leads into nothing so far, because there is nothing according to the club except a narrative from people who dislike barca and blow up an ethically wrong payment out of proportion.

AHH. Yes. According to the club.

Call the whole thing off boys. Barcelona say it's all fine.

 

[Niemans]

Lamine Yamal enters the squad for the match against Atletico Madrid. He is only 15 years old.

 

[McGrathsipan]

Lamine Yamal enters the squad for the match against Atletico Madrid. He is only 15 years old.

Is this because of corruption or because he's good ?

 

[Niemans]

Is this because of corruption or because he's good ?

He is right winger with left foot. Very skilled. At this age it is difficult to know the evolution that he will have.

 

[Ragnar123]

Lamine Yamal enters the squad for the match against Atletico Madrid. He is only 15 years old.

He is the youngest player ever to be called up for barca's first team. They're doing this probably also to convince him to sign a new contract. Many teams want him.
But still, I read Xavi highly values him and the staff didn't see another 15 year old with so much talent except Messi of course. I expected him to get minutes next season, but if he already enters the squad, Xavi could give him some minutes later in the season. Especially if we win LaLiga early enough. I'm very exited to see him.

 

[Niemans]

He is the youngest player ever to be called up for barca's first team.
I read Xavi highly values him and the staff didn't see another 15 year old with so much talent except Messi of course. I expected him to get minutes next season, but if he already enters the squad, Xavi could give him some minutes later in the season. Especially if we win LaLiga early enough. I'm very exited to see him.

He was a player who was already aiming high.
There are other players with a lot of projection and hopefully Xavi will give them minutes.
I personally really like Aleix Garrido (19yo, CM) and Pau Prim (17yo, pivot).
Instead of signing Iñigo Martínez, I would have promoted Chadi Riad to the first team.

 

[Ragnar123]

FC Barcelona agrees financing for Espai Barca

https://www.fcbarcelona.com/en/club/news/3234018/fc-barcelona-agrees-financing-for-espai-barca

FC Barcelona has agreed financing for Espai Barça as planned, ensuring the start of work to renovate Spotify Camp Nou and fulfilling the criteria approved during the referendum. The Club’s assets were not used as a guarantee and a mortgage wasn’t taken out on the stadium. The Club agreed financing with a total of 20 investors to the value of 1.450 billion Euro, a figure that covers the cost of the works for Espai Barça.The financing is with some of the main prestigious financial entities around the world. It has different instalments to be paid progressively at 5, 7, 9, 20, and 24 years, with a flexible structure, including a grace period. The Club will start to repay the operation once work has been completed on the stadium, using income generated by the Spotify Camp Nou, which is forecast to be around 247 million Euro.


FC Barcelona continues to make progress with its strategic plan and in developing the Espai Barça project, managing to achieve as much flexibility as possible when finding the best proposal in cost and time terms. Throughout the process, the Board of Directors and the Club’s own teams have been joined in their efforts by key partners, such as Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, JLL, Pérez-Llorca, DLA Piper, Key Capital Partners, Legends, and IPG 360, among others. The proposal consists of combining the experience and knowledge of the Club’s teams and professionals with best practices in the different areas involved in the Espai Barça project.


This operation once again confirms the Club’s credibility regarding the Spotify Camp Nou project, the epicenter for Espai Barça. The project is essential when it comes to keeping FC Barcelona at the forefront of world sport, is one of the foundations for the Club’s economic recovery and future viability and is a tool to enable continuation of the governance model, whereby the over 146.000 Club members are its owners.


In the coming days the Club will hold a press conference regarding the details of the operation.

It's good that the additional income generated by the new stadium will be used to repay the credit. So the project should not interfere with the transfer budget.
Also nice, that barca shut up any Madrid media beforehand in telling they did not use club's assets or a mortgage on the stadium.

 

[Niemans]

FC Barcelona agrees financing for Espai Barca

https://www.fcbarcelona.com/en/club/news/3234018/fc-barcelona-agrees-financing-for-espai-barca

I'm curious to know how the interests were established and also how the distribution of money is done.

 

[KirkDuyt]

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Mes que un club.

 

[rimaldo]

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Mes que un club.

yeah but franco.

 

[Ragnar123]

I'm curious to know how the interests were established and also how the distribution of money is done.

Yeah, we'll know more after the press conference. Also when does it start, because some say September, some as soon as the season ends.

 

[Niemans]

Yeah, we'll know more after the press conference. Also when does it start, because some say September, some as soon as the season ends.

I understood that at the beginning of July. Limark has a penalty of €1M per day of delay.

Edit: In theory the works should begin in June. In November 2024 Barcelona must return to the stadium if all goes well.

 

[GatoLoco]

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Mes que un club.

It looks bad but I also wonder what the other team is doing out of the pitch.

 

[whitbyviking]

I’ve just been doing some updated corruption training at work and there was a slide on punishments in various countries. From the 5 countries shown Spain had a lower financial punishment than Brazil, Senegal and South Africa. They also had a lower jail time punishment than Vietnam.

Thought it was interesting in the context of this discussion.

 

[KirkDuyt]

It looks bad but I also wonder what the other team is doing out of the pitch.

Barca player pretended to be seriously injured so they had a drink or summat.

 

[Anustart89]

It looks bad but I also wonder what the other team is doing out of the pitch.

Presumably having a drink while Barca's player was receiving treatment. You can see the "injured" lad and the physio leg it off the pitch.